[00:22] <ali1234> what happens with webpages on hidpi displays?
[00:22] <ali1234> does the browser just lie about media width to make things work?
[01:24] <slvr> ali1234: CSS pixels != device pixels
[01:24] <slvr> See devicePixelRatio
[01:25] <ali1234> no in other words, yes, it just lies?
[01:25] <ali1234> *so
[04:38] <mapp> morning
[05:28] <jussi> morning all
[05:35] <mapps> morning jussi
[05:35] <mapps> whats up
[05:35] <jussi> sky, ceiling... :P
[05:35] <mapps> pffff
[05:35] <mapps> ;]
[06:20] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:35] <mapps> morning MooDoo
[06:37] <MooDoo> how are you mapps
[06:39] <mapps> not bad..watching last tv ep for the night
[06:39] <mapps> then bed:)
[07:00] <diplo> Morning all
[07:02] <andylockran> morning all
[07:02] <MooDoo> morning diplo andylockran
[07:30] <dwatkins> morning all
[07:31] <MooDoo> morning
[08:30] <kvarley-work> Trying to run 2XClient on Ubuntu 14.04 64-bit and it keeps just crashing on load with a segmentation fault. Console chucks out this message "/opt/2X/2xclient.sh: line 4:  3067 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../lib ./2XClient $@" Any ideas?
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> what's "2xclient"?
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> if it crashes like that, it's probably a bug in the application, or you're not running it on a supported platform (it being in /opt suggests it's not from a package, the LD_LIBRARY_PATH almost confirms it)
[08:32] <kvarley-work> MartijnVdS: It's a proprietary RDP client that's available from the Ubuntu Software Centre
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> I'd file a bug then :)
[08:43] <TwistedLucidity> kvarley-work: Not much help, but Remmina and KRDC both work well. Might tide you over.
[08:43] <TwistedLucidity> Assuming it's standard RDP protocols you are using
[08:53] <kvarley-work> TwistedLucidity: yeah thanks I'm using remmina now. I just find 2X performs a lot better with the servers I'm working with. Will wait until its updated. thanks anyway :)
[08:57] <brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:00] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[09:01] <MooDoo> morning morning
[09:02] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:04] <popey> AlanBell: saw this and thought of you (and czajkowski) http://i.imgur.com/4ChkRqV.jpg
[09:05] <foobarry> my wife's phone adds an extra 7 to the mobile number for about 5 people when replying to an SMS e.g. 07941111111 becomes 077941111111 . any ideas?
[09:06] <foobarry> have cleared those people frmo contacts, sent a fresh txt. and it happens again when replying
[09:28] <czajkowski> popey: awww
[09:28] <czajkowski> popey: AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer http://guildfordbeerfestival.co.uk/
[09:29]  * TheOpenSourcerer goes and checks the diary...
[09:30]  * TheOpenSourcerer would appear to be available czajkowski
[09:30] <popey> sadly I am not
[09:30]  * nigelb hasn't seen AlanBell in a while
[09:31]  * TheOpenSourcerer looks at him every day
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> well - apart from weekends.
[09:32] <popey> you have a webcam for that, right?
[09:32] <nigelb> lol
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha
[09:53] <MooDoo> popey: reminds me of an episode of the big bang theory where sheldon was a robot, perhaps AlanBell is just a monitor on the top of TheOpenSourcerer desk at work :D
[09:54] <jussi> MooDoo: or TheOpenSourcerer is just AlanBell's alterego... Ive met AlanBell, but this sourcerer....
[09:54] <jussi> :P
[09:56] <MooDoo> jussi: so what you're saying is you've never seem them in the same room together?
[10:02] <foobarry> anyone have suggestions waht to do about latest 3.8.0-38 kernel not letting my laptop suspend? 3.8.0-37 works..
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> http://opensslrampage.tumblr.com/ is such fun :)
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: file a bug, or upgrade to 14.04 ;)
[10:21] <jussi> MooDoo: yeah, pretty much that :P
[10:38]  * jussi is feeling somewhat american
[10:38] <jussi> (peanut butter and jam sandwiches)
[10:38] <nigelb> jussi: not, vegemite or marmite?!
[10:39] <Laney> at least it's not jelly
[10:39] <Laney> (too wobbly)
[10:39] <jussi> not today..
[10:39] <jussi> Laney: true that
[10:39] <jussi> but american jelly is different to ours...
[10:40] <Laney> yeah I was being funny :(
[10:41] <jussi> Laney: failed :P
[10:41] <Laney> it's alright I laughed at it myself :(
[10:42] <davmor2> anyone else having issues with irc today?
[10:42] <MooDoo> davmor2: no
[10:45] <jussi> davmor2: yes, you are on it! :P :P
[10:45]  * jussi hugs davmor2
[10:50] <MooDoo> davmor2: what's going on with yours chap?
[10:52] <davmor2> MooDoo: everything on irc keeps restarting but only irc I ping and browse as usual hence asking if it was just me or everyone
[10:57] <MooDoo> stupid computers.
[11:11] <jussi> davmor2: does your status window have any useful messages?
[11:53] <popey> Should I expect to be able to fsck a mac formatted hdd in my linux laptop and it fix it?
[11:53] <MartijnVdS> I don't know if there are HFS(+) fsck tools for Linux
[11:53] <MartijnVdS> if it's btrfs/ext[234] then yes
[11:53] <popey> its hfs+
[11:54] <xnox> popey: you can fix non-journaled ones. no fsck for journaled.
[11:54] <popey> bugger
[11:54] <xnox> popey: it's optional hfs+ feature, but enabled by default on all macs unless explicitely disabled by the user.
[11:55] <popey> ta
[11:55] <xnox> popey: there are recovery disk-utilities you can boot - if you have a mac.
[11:55] <popey> oh, thats a good point, i do have another mac, i could attach it to that and try and fix
[11:55] <xnox> popey: either third-party or any mac os x installer dvd / usb-stick, all have disk-utilitiy available to launch
[11:55] <popey> good call!
[11:56] <popey> sounds like a lunchtime task!
[11:56] <popey> Oh look! Lunchtime!
[12:12] <davmor2> that's looking a bit more stable apparently my new router might be the cause will leave that till the weekend though dd-wrt might be required :)
[12:13] <popey> \o/ chugging away
[12:14] <Laney> chugga chugga
[12:15] <davmor2> popey: your at work what are you doing chugging beer ;)
[12:17] <jussi> anyone know how to make the left and right tilt on my mouses scrollwheel actually do something?
[12:17] <jussi> like perhaps back/forward in the browser?
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> jussi: they scroll horizontally
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> on mine anyway
[12:20] <jussi> oh... so they do. that sucks.
[12:20] <jussi> I wonder if I can change that somewhere
[12:21] <popey> paste.ubuntu.com/7321955/ thats bad ☹
[13:19] <jussi> you know, it just dawned on me... the oneplus is actually what was going to be the ubuntu edge. :P :P
[13:20] <popey> hardly
[13:20] <popey> too big for one
[13:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> I don't get the capacitive *AND* on-screen button thing... Seems like a square peg/round hole thing to me.
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - Ubuntu spam from eBuyer.... "Alan, HP 255 G1 Laptop with Ubuntu only £219.99 + Free Next Day Delivery" :-D
[13:23] <Oli> At that price it could have another set of physical buttons inside the case and I wouldn't mind.
[13:27] <awilkins> Woo, 64GB version!
[13:27] <awilkins> Woo $349
[13:27] <popey> not a bad price for that little laptop
[13:30] <andylockran> :( popey
[13:30] <andylockran> just seen your dead laptop
[13:30] <andylockran> ¢/win 4
[13:38] <popey> Sam is on a school trip to Windsor Castle today
[13:43] <davmor2> popey: it's easter break isn't it?
[13:43] <popey> no, they went back yesterday
[13:43] <davmor2> ah not here they didn't I don't think
[13:44] <popey> I'd be surprised.
[13:46] <davmor2> popey: I don't know not having kids but the traffic is too light at school leaving time
[13:47]  * popey tries to remember a time before kids
[13:47] <davmor2> popey: I get Sue from the hospice around 15-16:00 too little traffic
[13:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> our kids went back on Tuesday.
[13:47] <popey> probably some grown-ups still on easter hols
[13:47] <davmor2> popey: it's when you were slim had a capri and fun ;)
[13:47] <popey> ☻
[13:47] <popey> true, except s/capri/manta/
[13:48]  * TheOpenSourcerer never had a Capri :-(
[13:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Talbot Solara
[13:48] <davmor2> popey: it wasn't a bad guess
[13:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Honda CB200 with Reverse Cone Megaphones ;-)
[13:49] <davmor2> popey: so if we here about a secondary fire breaking out at windsor castle today we know why right :)
[13:50] <davmor2> popey: ohhhh LV issue 3 on digital download now :)
[13:51] <dvrr> how to  restore  multiple databases mysql  command line
[13:53] <popey> davmor2: yay
[13:54] <popey> my dad had a Talbot Solara.. PLM 573W
[13:54] <popey> and an Horizon, ELY 760T
[13:55] <dvrr> i have taken multiple databases   single sql file how to restore all  Ubuntu please help me
[13:56] <awilkins> mysql -uroot -p <big-fat-sql-file.sql
[16:43] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[16:45] <diddledan> ditto
[16:45]  * diddledan yawns
[17:40] <mapps> yo
[17:47] <diddledan> http://altairclone.com/
[17:54] <shauno> interesting. prettier than the briel computers one
[18:44] <Saur0> hi can anyone help me with a ssh problem?
[18:44] <Tom92> Hello. I'm completly  new to ubuntu. I'm trying to boot from a usb 1.1 (yeah I know). I used pendrivelinux to make the bootable drive. When I try to boot however all i get are fans and a black sceen. I waited it out for a good while, maybe 15-20 minutes what with trying to boot fro 1.1. I'm on an acer aspire 5930G with 4 GB ram and 250 GB HDD . and I'm trying to boot the latest version of ubuntu, 64bit. does anyone have any clue wh
[18:45] <Tom92> oh and I've changed the boot priority to USB-HDD and it's picking up my drive.
[18:45] <Tom92> Sorry for the bombardment!
[18:59] <Tom92> Hi all, just to clarify, the machine is picking up my drive but is still not booting. Advice still welcome. T
[19:23] <ducky_> is this system still used?
[19:23] <diddledan> ubuntu? yes, I believe so
[19:23] <ducky_> Alright :D
[19:24] <diddledan> they're starting to put it in phones now, dun'tchaknow
[19:24] <ducky_> because ive had some problems letely with graphics are far as ubuntu is concerned
[19:24] <ducky_> +as far
[19:25] <ducky_> im thinking of installing 14.04 now but i really dont want to fuss with what happened to my graphics last time
[19:25] <ducky_> after installing the driver for my gtx 660 with ubuntu it gets stuck in 800x600
[19:25] <ducky_> before is fine
[19:26] <ducky_> and if i use hdmi instead of dvi
[19:26] <ducky_> it works fine too
[19:26] <ducky_> and my second screen displays the correct res
[19:27] <ducky_> usually trying to force a res is leading to the edid
[19:27] <ducky_> being bad
[19:27] <ducky_> is there a way i can take windows edid and use that
[19:27] <ducky_> or just another way to force 1080 into ubuntu
[19:28] <diddledan> afaik the edid is embedded in the monitor
[19:28] <ducky_> yep
[19:29] <ducky_> so its either dont install drivers and not be able to use steam
[19:29] <ducky_> or just install them and enjoy 800x600
[20:00] <aquarius> popey, ping -- you did tell me before how to get the version number of the most recent promoted phone image, but when the compputer died I lost the logs :(
[20:04] <popey> system settings -> about
[20:04] <aquarius> popey, that shows the version I'm running, not whether there's a newer version to install, doesn't it? I'm dual-boot so I have to upgrade from teh android app
[20:05] <popey> oh, dunno about that
[20:07] <popey> aquarius: lemme ask you a question...
[20:08] <popey> phaser.io looks awesome
[20:08] <aquarius> I've seen it, but not used it for anything yet
[20:08] <popey> but requires that it be loaded from a webserver, and not locally loaded, apparently it uses get requsts and json stuff which has to pull from a server, not local filesystem
[20:08] <aquarius> yeah; these days, you pretty much need a webserver to do anything
[20:08] <popey> so there's no way that is going to fly on an ubuntu phone as a local app
[20:09] <popey> which is a bummer
[20:09] <aquarius> hrm
[20:09] <aquarius> I wish I could say that QML had a really good XMLHttpRequest implementation and so this wouldn't be a problem
[20:09] <popey> which leads to my question - how could I?
[20:09] <aquarius> but it does not.
[20:09] <aquarius> well, you could spin up a web server pretty easily in C or Go, I imagine
[20:10] <aquarius> but I can't see how you can stop other apps on the device connecting to it
[20:10] <popey> oh, i could ship a little apache/lighttpd or whatever in my app?
[20:10] <aquarius> this is the desktopcouch problem all over again
[20:10] <aquarius> yeah. Not apache ;)
[20:10] <aquarius> I imagine that Qt has be-a-webserver stuff in it
[20:10] <popey> well, whatever, i could launch one from my app?
[20:10] <aquarius> I'd do it in process, myself
[20:11] <aquarius> http://doc.qt.digia.com/solutions/4/qtservice/qtservice-example-server.html
[20:11] <popey> doc.qt.digia.com/solutions/4/qtservice/qtservice-example-server.html
[20:11] <popey> hah
[20:11] <aquarius> top hit
[20:11] <aquarius> that's qt 4
[20:11] <aquarius> but you can see that it's possible
[20:11] <aquarius> I'm not enough of a C++ guy to know how to do it, though
[20:11] <aquarius> and we can't do python apps :)
[20:11] <popey> but surely I could ship a tiny binary server?
[20:12] <aquarius> yeah
[20:12] <aquarius> I don't know how the application lifecycle works then, though
[20:12] <popey> spawn it then launch my browser container thing
[20:12] <aquarius> you're not allowed to run background apps, right?
[20:12] <popey> but its not background
[20:12] <popey> it's run by my app
[20:12] <aquarius> what happens if you just execute system("something &")
[20:12] <popey> which is currently in the foreground
[20:12] <popey> dunno
[20:12] <aquarius> yeah, but it has to be a separate process
[20:12] <diddledan> popey: can you not use file:/// urls?
[20:12] <popey> no diddledan
[20:12] <aquarius> otherwise your foreground app is blocked
[20:12] <diddledan> dang
[20:13] <diddledan> that sucks
[20:13] <aquarius> or it has to be in-process
[20:13] <aquarius> so now "your app" is two processes; the webserver, and the browser container
[20:13] <aquarius> I don't know if that's allowed.
[20:13] <aquarius> tedg or jdstrand or someone would know, I imagine
[20:13] <popey> i dont understand why it wouldn't be
[20:14] <popey> surely apps dont have to be 1:1 app:process
[20:14] <aquarius> well, the app lifecycle thing suspends your app when you switch to another app
[20:14] <popey> right
[20:14] <popey> but Im not doing that
[20:14] <popey> I'm looking at my app
[20:14] <popey> and this is a child of my app
[20:14] <popey> we should move this to -app-devel and highlight relavent people ☻
[20:14] <aquarius> if your app's started 2 processes.... how does the lifecycle thing know which 2 processes they are?
[20:14] <popey> cgroups iirc
[20:15] <popey> thats not something you or i need worry about
[20:15] <popey> you start your app, your app could spawn 10 processes, but they belong to that upstart job
[20:18] <BigRedS_> Does a bug being marked as 'confirmed' from 'triaged' suggest anything about an intention to fix it?
[20:22] <BigRedS_> (it's bug 1243240 which I suspect to be either user-error or working-as-designed, so I'm intrigued as to whether that status change implies a future change to these menu buttons)
[20:25] <ali1234> popey: re phaser.io, with Qt you can override the http transport mechanism and therefore cause your app to handle all requests internally... it's really very good
[20:25] <popey> oh?
[20:26] <popey> that sounds delightful
[20:26] <ali1234> yeah there is a class called like QtWebkitHttpRequest or something
[20:27] <ali1234> i've used it for my web archiver in order to catch and archive all http requests done by the page, but you could also redirect the requests to local resources
[20:28] <aquarius> ali1234, ooh, that's a sneaky plan -- have the web *think* that it's doing http requests but instead they're being intercepted.
[20:28] <aquarius> clever
[20:28] <aquarius> still needs c++ though :)
[20:28] <ali1234> you can do it in python also
[20:28] <ali1234> you can't do anything good with only QML... despite what the developers say, it's really just a replacement for XML user interface files
[20:29] <aquarius> no python on the phone, is the problem there.
[20:29] <ali1234> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qnetworkrequest.html <- i think this is the thing you need to hook into... but i can't really remember
[20:29] <aquarius> I disagree; you can do a lot with pure QML
[20:29] <popey> there is python on the phone
[20:30] <popey> root@black-phablet:~# python
[20:30] <popey> Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 23:30:12)
[20:30] <aquarius> but you hit problems in certain areas where qml just isn't there for you
[20:30] <aquarius> popey, but writing click apps in it is not allowed, right?
[20:30] <ali1234> you can do a lot... but not anything interesting
[20:30] <ali1234> actually i would apply the same criticism to click apps
[20:30] <aquarius> depends on your definition of interesting, I suppose. If you could have written a phonegap app to do it, you can do it with pure QML instead, mostly.
[20:31] <popey> i dunno what makes you say python isnt allowed
[20:31] <popey> long running python programs are discouraged, sure
[20:31] <aquarius> popey, it's OK to write click apps in python??
[20:31] <popey> i have not heard anyone say no
[20:32] <aquarius> I have. It's all "use pure QML if you can; C++ and (soon) Go if you need more, or C/OpenGL"
[20:32] <aquarius> if that's wrong, then great!
[20:32] <popey> thats the recommnended supported path
[20:32] <ali1234> i would expect you could override Qt classes with Go
[20:33] <aquarius> you can -- gustavo and others have made go a perfectly good Qt host lamnguage, apparently
[20:33] <aquarius> although I havent' tried it, yet
[20:34] <diddledan> I had a cursory look at QML - it looks weird to me coming from an HTML background
[20:35] <aquarius> it's got some weird parts. But I like it.
[20:35] <ali1234> diddledan: it's just like HTML/javascript DOM, except with Qt objects instead of HTML elements
[20:35] <ali1234> and the syntax is a little bit weird
[20:36] <diddledan> oh I does have programmability? from what I saw (very limited) it was just markup with very little actual logic
[20:37] <ali1234> no that's about right
[20:37] <ali1234> it has the same level of programmability you get with javascript, because that's basically what it is
[20:37] <ali1234> you can do logic, and set/get properties on Qt objects
[20:38] <ali1234> you can't make new Qt objects
[20:38] <ali1234> you can probably do pixel access on a QCanvas but it's going to suck
[20:38] <ali1234> if you want to do complex things, you build the component in C++ and then use it in QML
[20:40] <ali1234> it's designed for kinetic scroller apps and very simple 2D games (eg solitaire, minesweeper)
[20:40] <ali1234> basically the kind of shovelware you find in app stores for 99c
[20:43] <popey> aquarius: right, so any time you wanna make me a framework app that I can stuff my phaser.io code in. that'd be sweet ☻
[20:43] <diddledan> lol
[20:43] <ali1234> that sounds like an interesting challenge actually
[20:43] <ali1234> what does it actually need on the server side?
[20:44] <popey> so the idea was to write a simple game for ubuntu phone using phaser.io
[20:44] <popey> but this was the stumbling block i had
[20:44] <aquarius> popey, it's doable if I can use Python. I'm still on 13.10 right now, but once I upgrade I'd be happy to throw together a tiny PyQt app to do it, assuming that pyqt is available on the phone!
[20:44] <popey> so the game needs to be in a directory that the server serves out
[20:44] <ali1234> is that all? just serve files?
[20:45] <popey> aquarius: no pyqt
[20:45] <aquarius> popey, if I can't use Python for this (say because PyQt isn't on the phone) then you'll need a C++ person, and I suspect ali1234 is your man ;)
[20:45] <popey> ali1234: i think so
[20:45] <ali1234> in fact
[20:45] <ali1234> you might not need to do anything at all if it just serves files
[20:45] <popey> i thought it might be handy to have a framework into which people could dump their phaser.io game, run "click build foo" and job done
[20:45] <aquarius> for a c++ person it'd take about fifteen seconds to write a tiny app which launches a qtwebkit container and overrides its http requests to point at a folder.
[20:45] <ali1234> just convert all URLs from http: to qrc:
[20:45] <ali1234> or file:
[20:45] <popey> no, file wont work
[20:45] <popey> it needs get requests
[20:45] <ali1234> why not?
[20:46] <ali1234> oh. and what does it do with those requests?
[20:46] <aquarius> same origin policy,.
[20:46] <popey> well, for loading assets and tilemap etc
[20:46] <aquarius> two file: URLs are not in the same origin, so a browser will sod you up.
[20:46] <ali1234> you can turn that stuff off
[20:46] <aquarius> not very easily :(
[20:46] <popey> not on our browser I suspect
[20:47] <aquarius> qtwebkit doesn't expose as much stuff as it perhaps should.
[20:47] <ali1234> so... where is the code that runs on the webserver to make this stuff work?
[20:47] <aquarius> it's easier to have the html/js believe that it's talking to a server and operating as it expects, even if behind the scenes you trap the requests.
[20:47] <popey> https://github.com/photonstorm/phaser-examples for example
[20:48] <popey> popey.com/~alan/phaser/phaser-examples/examples/ e.g.
[20:48] <aquarius> there isn't any server-side code; it's all client-side. But it expects to be running from a webserver, not from file: URLs, so that everything's int he same origin.
[20:48] <popey> yes, that
[20:48] <aquarius> Yes, you can, if you know what you're doing, make this stuff work with file: URLs, but it's actually harder than *not* doing that and instead overriding qnetworkrequest or just running a webserver.
[20:49] <ali1234> popey: so what's actually in that directory server side?
[20:50] <popey> just a git clone of that github repo
[20:50] <popey> nothing more
[20:50] <ali1234> nothing at all executable
[20:50] <popey> its serving static files
[20:50] <popey> correct
[20:50] <ali1234> so you don't actually need http urls then
[20:50] <popey> other than what aquarius said
[20:50] <ali1234> the server isn't doing anything with the get requests
[20:50] <popey> phaser.io is known not to work with file urls
[20:50] <ali1234> it's just handing them back to the browser
[20:50] <aquarius> if you don't use http urls, the browser security model will sod you up.
[20:50] <ali1234> yeah but that will be the origin policy only
[20:51] <aquarius> so you can either use http, or turn off the security model.
[20:51] <aquarius> I think that using http (from the browser's point of view) is easier
[20:51] <aquarius> and then override that http in Qt so that it's *actually* just serving files.
[20:51] <ali1234> yeah
[20:51] <ali1234> that would be one way to do it
[20:52] <ali1234> btw: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8090462/qtwebkit-same-origin-policy
[20:52] <ali1234> it might not work with file: in a normal browser, but what if you do that? ^
[20:52] <aquarius> as you said above, just handle qnetworkrequest to do the moral equivalent of "on request http://localhost/$foo: return load_text_file($currentdir + "/" + $foo)"
[20:53] <aquarius> browsers are weird about file: URLs
[20:53] <aquarius> I've spent ages in the past trying to override that in order to serve complex web apps from the filesystem
[20:53] <aquarius> and it's just not worth the hassle. :)
[20:54] <aquarius> if you're served from a file: URL, you can't make XHRs to file: URLs, even if they're in the same origin
[20:54] <aquarius> so you'd have to turn that off too, etc, etc.
[20:55] <aquarius> maybe it's worth trying the suggestions there
[20:55] <ali1234> trying it..
[20:55] <aquarius> (although I think those are the Qt 4 WebSettings things, but maybe it hasn't changed much in Qt 5)
[20:55] <aquarius> this might also be problematic when Oxide arrives, but then so will overriding qnetworkrequest :)
[20:56] <aquarius> worth a try, indeed
[20:56] <popey> oxide arrived
[20:56] <aquarius> rly?
[20:56] <popey> which is my next question, can you embed oxide in qt rather than qtwebkit ☻
[20:56] <aquarius> the changelogs don't seem to mention major changes tot he web browser?
[20:57] <popey> liboxideqtcore is on the image
[20:57] <aquarius> popey, if oxide has properly arrived then you should be automatically embedding it without changing anything, as I understand it
[20:57] <aquarius> ah. "Oxide is available" is not the same thing as "the platform web widget and the browser are now oxide" ;)
[20:57] <aquarius> we may be in the interregnum here.
[20:57] <popey> the browser is
[20:57] <popey> and the webapp thing is
[20:57] <aquarius> !!
[20:57] <popey> way faster
[20:57] <aquarius> that's what I was checking the changelogs for
[20:57] <aquarius> I must have missed it.
[20:58] <aquarius> I shall upgrade to 303 then :)
[20:58] <popey> no need
[20:58] <popey> its in the released image
[20:58] <popey> wait, which one you on?
[20:58] <aquarius> 296.
[20:58] <popey> wwait one
[20:58] <popey> ok, my "stable" phone is 302 which already has it
[20:59] <aquarius> right
[20:59] <aquarius> I am now upgrading :)
[20:59] <popey> arrived in 295
[20:59] <popey> people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/295.changes
[21:00] <ali1234> um... okay
[21:00] <ali1234> it "just works"
[21:01] <aquarius> ali1234, cool -- then perhaps I was overly cautious! encouraging
[21:01] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325256/
[21:02] <popey> neat
[21:02] <ali1234> presumably it would work in QML too with no problems
[21:02] <aquarius> popey, it'd be useful to try that and test all the examples
[21:02] <aquarius> I'm not sure if you can get the current folder in QML
[21:03] <ali1234> but you'd know where you app is going to be installed
[21:03] <popey> nope
[21:03] <aquarius> npe
[21:03] <ali1234> lol
[21:03] <aquarius> it's not installed to a hardcoded path
[21:03] <popey> click packages are relocatable
[21:03] <ali1234> embed everything into the exe then
[21:03] <aquarius> precisely absolutely to stop people hardcoding paths into their apps.
[21:03] <ali1234> and use qrc:
[21:03] <aquarius> ali1234, if you're in qml then you don't have an exe, ideally -- just use qmlscene. The instant you have your own exe, you're a C++ person, which I suspect popey is trying to avoid :)
[21:04] <ali1234> well
[21:04] <ali1234> if you can't use qrc and you can't have a known resource directory... how the hell does anyone do anything at all with QML?
[21:05] <popey> surely you can use relative paths
[21:05] <popey> file:///./foo
[21:05] <ali1234> perhaps
[21:05] <aquarius> popey, you *might* be able to make your command line in the desktop file be something like "qmlscene $PWD myapp.qml" or something
[21:05] <aquarius> I don't know if the current directory is actually set to your app's install location, though.
[21:06] <ali1234> self.web.load(QUrl("examples/index.html")) works
[21:06] <aquarius> sounds like another question for -app-devel, that: how do I construct a file:/// URL in QML/HTML without writing a C++ plugin to return the current directory?
[21:06] <popey> perfect
[21:06] <aquarius> ali1234, that'll work on the desktop, ya, but the phone's a mildly different operating environment
[21:07] <popey> thats should work there too imo
[21:07]  * popey will test
[21:07] <ali1234> it shouldn't matter, if it does then QUrl has a bug
[21:07] <aquarius> ali1234, you're saying that QUrl is *supposed* to resolve URLs relative to the path of the Python file?
[21:07] <aquarius> not relative to the CWD?
[21:08] <ali1234> if even CWD isn't right under click packages then click packages are retarded
[21:08] <aquarius> Disagree.
[21:08] <popey> it is
[21:08] <aquarius> I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the CWD to be the user data folder for this app, not the program data folder for this app
[21:08] <popey> the CWD is where the main qml file is
[21:08] <popey> panic ye not
[21:08] <popey> AIUI
[21:08] <aquarius> popey, ah, really? then you're OK :)
[21:09] <ali1234> well the question is not just about QUrl but *anything* you load from disk
[21:11] <ali1234> not all of these games actually work btw
[21:11] <ali1234> breakout and invaders don't work
[21:13] <ali1234> they don't work when loaded from http either though
[21:13] <ali1234> probably webkit bugs
[21:14] <czajkowski> hmm anyone set up a  LT2P VPN on Ubuntu ?
[21:24] <popey> ali1234: i just tested with qml and it fails...
[21:24] <popey> https://imgur.com/0t4x7Q6
[21:24] <popey> paste.ubuntu.com/7325356/
[21:24] <ali1234> probably made changes in Qt5 then
[21:27] <aquarius> I don't know if the allow-file-access-from-files setting is exposed to qml's webview
[21:27] <aquarius> but I'll bet that's what's causing it to fail
[21:27] <aquarius> that needs turning on
[21:28] <ali1234> qmlviewer: could not exec '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt4/bin/qmlviewer': No such file or directory
[21:28] <aquarius> you'll want qmlscene for qt5
[21:28] <popey> qmlscene -qtf foo.qml
[21:28] <popey> er
[21:28] <popey> qmlscene -qt5 foo.qml
[21:28] <ali1234> qmlscene: could not exec '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmlscene': No such file or directory
[21:29] <popey> fun
[21:29] <ali1234> what is oxideqmlscene?
[21:30] <ali1234> installed it, now i get: local.qml:3 "components": no such directory
[21:30] <popey> you're missing the ubuntu sdk I imagine
[21:30] <popey> nvm
[21:31] <ali1234> why does ubuntu-sdk want to install indicator-network?
[21:32] <ali1234> there should be a way to install an sdk that won't totally mess up my system by installing things like unity, mir, ubuntu-system-settings etc
[21:33] <popey> +1
[21:33] <ali1234> just don't implement that using scratchbox
[21:33] <ali1234> because that is even more intrusive and dangerous
[21:39] <ali1234> install ubuntu-sdk, still doesn't work
[21:50] <ali1234> diddledan: remember when i said i was going to ask you a hard question? what do you think about this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325524/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325523/
[21:51] <ali1234> is making so many media rules going to clog the browser?
[21:51] <ali1234> is there a better way to do it, that doesn't involve javascript?
[21:52] <diddledan> wow that is a fair few. TBH I've not done any investigations into the slowdowns caused by media query proliferation. I tend to use SASS/SCSS or LESS which means I probably end up with a similar explosion of media queries
[21:53] <ali1234> yeah, i've looked at those, but the have a tonne of depencies that i don't understand, so i just wrote a python script that does the same thing :)
[21:54] <ali1234> maybe i should just use javascript for this - it would be more likely to work in every browser...
[21:54] <diddledan> you don't really need to worry about the dependencies, gem (for sass) or npm (for less) tend to take care of it all automatically
[21:54] <ali1234> and directly calculating the optimal width would be much easier since i could just get the parent element size instead of having to guess it based on the media width and height
[21:54] <ali1234> yeah thing is i don't have gem or node installed
[21:55] <diddledan> apt-get install node
[21:55] <ali1234> i don't want to
[21:55] <diddledan> :-p
[21:55] <ali1234> lol
[21:55] <diddledan> stick-in-the-mud!
[21:55] <ali1234> anyway, generating the css isn't the issue
[21:56] <ali1234> all i want is to arrange a bunch of equal sized images into rows using the space optimally
[21:56] <ali1234> minimizing height while ensuring no image is smaller than a fixed pixel size, and also making sure each full row completely fills the space
[21:57] <ali1234> and ensuring there are no more than (number of rows-1) empty spaces in the grid
[21:58] <diddledan> I'm not sure there's an easy answer for that
[21:59] <ali1234> in javascript it wold be a few lines
[21:59] <ali1234> and the page requires javascript anyway
[21:59] <ali1234> so i might as well do that
[22:01] <ali1234> at the end of the day all it has to do is decide how many items per row based on the container size in pixels, the minimum item size in pixels, and the number of items
[22:01] <diddledan> yeah, I tend to be of the opinion that : try not to use javascript at all bar for visual gimicks UNLESS you're already using javascript for inherent functionality of the site.
[22:01] <diddledan> so in this case you're on the UNLESS step
[22:01] <ali1234> and then set width:$(100/n)%; on every item
[22:02] <ali1234> http://dev.drumoff.tv/ is the site - this is for the video player right in the middle, for the playlist
[22:03] <ali1234> note this website is fully responsive too, so everything resizes all the time
[22:03] <aquarius> ali1234, you know about flexbox, yes?
[22:04] <ali1234> is that like lightbox?
[22:04] <aquarius> no. layout method
[22:04] <aquarius> css
[22:04] <aquarius> it takes a bit to understand it
[22:04] <aquarius> but I think once you do understand it, it may well be able to do what you're talking about above in pure css
[22:04] <ali1234> that's not what i want. all the images are guaranteed to be the same size
[22:05] <ali1234> maybe it is what i want actually
[22:05] <aquarius> no guarantees that it's exactly what you want, but it looks like it should be
[22:05] <aquarius> also, why not just float the images?
[22:06] <ali1234> they *are* floated
[22:06] <aquarius> if they're floated, and sized in percentages, why do you need the calculation stuff? I must be missing something?
[22:06] <ali1234> because i don't know in advance how many mages there will be
[22:06] <ali1234> and there might be too many to fit on one row
[22:07] <ali1234> if there are 11 images, i want 6 x 2
[22:07] <ali1234> if there are 14 images i want 7 x 2
[22:07] <ali1234> unless the container is narrower than 7 * 70px
[22:07] <ali1234> then i want 5 x 3
[22:07] <aquarius> but they're all guaranteed to be the same size, you said
[22:07] <ali1234> etc
[22:07] <ali1234> yes
[22:07] <aquarius> what if 6x2 doesn't fit?
[22:08] <ali1234> then 4 x 3
[22:08] <diddledan> they're scaled by the front-end
[22:08] <diddledan> percentage-based
[22:08] <ali1234> they are all the same size, and scaled to (the same) percentage of that, depending on how many images i want per row
[22:08] <aquarius> ah!
[22:08] <diddledan> bingo
[22:08] <aquarius> you're OK with changing the image size
[22:08] <ali1234> hang on let me turn on debug and you can see the effect
[22:08] <aquarius> got it.
[22:09] <aquarius> I'd do that with JS, myself.
[22:09] <ali1234> okay reload :)
[22:09] <ali1234> and try resizing the page both horizontally and vertically
[22:09] <aquarius> url?
[22:09] <ali1234> this is currently done with pure css
[22:09] <ali1234> dev.drumoff.tv
[22:09] <aquarius> ah dev.drumoff.tv
[22:09] <ali1234> scroll to video player
[22:10] <ali1234> it has multiple rows now, with 5 to 21 images
[22:11] <aquarius> *nod* I don't think that's sensibly doable in pure css, indeed
[22:11] <diddledan> question: how do I enter to win those cool prizes alluded-to by the slider? :-p
[22:11] <ali1234> i found two bugs in chrome while making this
[22:11] <aquarius> you can do it the way you are doing it, with loads of media queries
[22:11] <aquarius> having loads of media queries won't massively impact the browser
[22:11] <ali1234> diddledan: you film yourself playing a 30 second drum solo and enter it into the competition
[22:11] <aquarius> but it will make your debugging life a misery ;)
[22:12] <diddledan> dang
[22:12] <diddledan> I'm not good at drums
[22:12] <diddledan> will a kazoo be as good?
[22:12] <daftykins> work on it sir!
[22:12] <daftykins> also hi
[22:12] <diddledan> ello :-)
[22:12] <ali1234> no, it has to specifically be only kick snare hat
[22:12] <daftykins> i be lurking
[22:12] <diddledan> -_-
[22:13] <diddledan> was that even a thing, or just three random words put together?
[22:13] <ali1234> they are all types of percussion
[22:13] <diddledan> kick punch nose
[22:13] <diddledan> :-p
[22:13] <shauno> sounds like animal cruelty to me.  although I'm not sure why a hare needs a hat
[22:14] <daftykins> how else would it come into being?
[22:14] <diddledan> shauno: you do mac, fix my time machine
[22:14] <daftykins> what be broke of it?
[22:15] <shauno> well, basically.  time machine.  the rest is just details
[22:15] <diddledan> it complains about null
[22:15] <daftykins> delete that plist?
[22:16] <diddledan> which plist?
[22:16] <diddledan> o_O
[22:16] <daftykins> i think it determines TM's config or some jazz
[22:16] <daftykins> then it's defaulted and you can start anew
[22:16] <diddledan> but then I lose my history
[22:17] <diddledan> hence, no point in TM at all
[22:17] <daftykins> nah you just link it up to the drive again
[22:17] <shauno> that's a good thing.  your history is pretty shady.
[22:17] <daftykins> and it knows based on name etc
[22:17] <diddledan> every time I've reset tm in the past it's created a new backup
[22:17] <diddledan> such as by installing from a TM backup causes TM to reset the TM history
[22:18] <daftykins> yeah it'd do a whole full backup again
[22:18] <diddledan> then what's the point of historical backups?!
[22:19] <daftykins> well you could give us better logs instead sir :)
[22:20] <diddledan> ok, "The backup disk image "/Volumes/TimeMachine/tantalum.sparsebungle" could not be accessed (error (null))."
[22:20] <daftykins> lol bungle
[22:20] <daftykins> bundle?
[22:20] <diddledan> last successful backup says the twenty twoth
[22:21] <shauno> curious, what's the bungle hosted on?
[22:22] <diddledan> oldest backup is the 2th because that's when it last ducked-up and I reset the thing
[22:22] <diddledan> freenas
[22:22] <shauno> (assuming it's a remote share, since that's why it'd use a bungle)
[22:22] <daftykins> heh is it not bundle
[22:22] <shauno> it's killing you isn't it.  bungle bungle bungle
[22:23] <daftykins> 8D
[22:23] <shauno> http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1355000/images/_1359371_rainbow_300.jpg
[22:23] <daftykins> sprucebungle
[22:23] <diddledan> shauno: that reminds me of the song
[22:24] <shauno> try to open it in finder?
[22:24] <shauno> (my gut feeling is going to be stale locks)
[22:25] <diddledan> I've reboobed since it first appeared
[22:25] <diddledan> it also loads fine in finder
[22:26] <daftykins> even the disk image? loads up ok?
[22:27] <daftykins> can you bring it into disk utility and verify it or something 0o
[22:27] <diddledan> not a remote share I can't
[22:27] <daftykins> the file though
[22:28] <diddledan> a sparsebungle isn't a file
[22:28] <diddledan> it's a folder
[22:28] <daftykins> oic
[22:28] <daftykins> not encountered that before then
[22:28] <daftykins> yet i've got a client with 10.9 TM backups
[22:29] <shauno> it's a disk image that's sliced into chunks (usually 10M?)
[22:30] <diddledan> yeah looks like 8MB
[22:30] <shauno> it'll appear as a single file in Finder, but not on disk (the same as .app etc do)
[22:31] <diddledan> ls
[22:31] <diddledan> oops
[22:31] <daftykins> $ diddledan
[22:31] <diddledan> you can right-click and select show package contents tho
[22:31] <diddledan> or you can use the terminator
[22:32] <diddledan> double-clicking the sparsebungle opens up as a disk image which I can browse and showing package contents also opens which I can browse
[22:32] <shauno> they're actually handy for various uses.  like if the underlying filesystem doesn't like huge files
[22:33] <shauno> or if you're syncing them to somewhere else.  you can just send the chunk that's changed instead of the whole filesystem
[22:40] <daftykins> you know i nearly dropped £380 on 6 x 2TB WD Reds last night
[22:40] <daftykins> but instead i just ordered 1 x 1TB WD Red to fix my existing array ;x
[22:41] <daftykins> diddledan: i'm seeing a post on a site saying they fixed that error by renaming their system 0o
[22:41] <daftykins> actually that's just gonna cause a full backup too isn't it
[22:46] <diddledan> lol @ http://www.kitguru.net/channel/generaltech/bob/nypd-suffers-huge-twitter-pr-failure/
[22:47] <shauno> old :p
[22:49] <maps|wrk> good evening
[22:49] <shauno> morning
[22:49] <diddledan> my brother is famous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TXkAHLlbEPQ (he's talking about the sex-aid at 1:33, sounding like farmer giles)
[22:49] <diddledan> (SFW)
[22:50] <diddledan> or rather VSFW
[22:50] <diddledan> very-safe
[22:50] <maps|wrk> i was about to aslk
[22:50] <maps|wrk> heard sex and wondered
[22:50] <shauno> I'm not sure I want to click on farmer gile's sex-aid no matter how safe it is
[22:50] <diddledan> yeah, I realised I left it somewhat open-ended
[22:51] <diddledan> he's talking about "FatMax Compound Action Pliers" which to me sounds like a sex-aid
[22:51] <maps|wrk> a farmer aye
[22:51] <maps|wrk> il watch
[22:52] <diddledan> he's done a few. managed to get himself on stanley's tool jury
[22:52] <diddledan> http://www.stanleytools.co.uk/tooljury/who
[22:53] <maps|wrk> wheres he from
[22:53] <diddledan> near me
[22:53] <diddledan> :-p
[22:54] <diddledan> just outside basingstoke is where he grew-up - he's now living/working andover area
[22:54] <diddledan> which isn't that far afield
[22:54] <diddledan> about 20 miles down the road from amazingstoke
[22:54] <maps|wrk> oh
[22:54] <maps|wrk> thats not farmer area
[22:54] <maps|wrk> lol
[22:54] <diddledan> no, indeed
[22:54] <diddledan> which is why I commented on it :-p
[22:55] <diddledan> speaking of countryfolk, what's the difference between a city fire engine and a country fire engine?
[22:56] <diddledan> nobody?
[22:56] <diddledan> well, a city fire engine goes NEENAANEENAANEENAA. while a country one goes ooh arr. ooh arr. ooh arr.
[22:57] <shauno> I'm trying to order pcbs, and I can't decide on a colour.  this is silly.
[22:57] <diddledan> shauno: red
[22:58] <daftykins> +1 for red
[22:58] <maps|wrk> brb
[22:59] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgI8Q-lwGkc#t=455
[23:03] <maps|wrk> LOL diddledan
[23:03] <maps|wrk> IM FROM near woking
[23:03] <maps|wrk> btw
[23:12] <diddledan> hah! http://www.kitguru.net/channel/generaltech/bob/how-does-a-battlestar-survive-a-cylon-nuclear-strike/
[23:22] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7325972/ <- jquery justified list :)
[23:22] <maps|wrk> :)
[23:23] <ali1234> the ability to check innerWidth (which css cannot do) really simplified it a lot
[23:23] <maps|wrk> what you making
[23:23] <ali1234> a video player
[23:36] <diddledan> open in google chrome: http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/stars/
[23:37] <diddledan> if you don't feel small after that you're an egotist
[23:37] <diddledan> or a mormon
[23:37] <diddledan> or both?
[23:39] <diddledan> lol @ "Warning: Scientific accuracy is not guaranteed. Please do not use this visualization for interstellar navigation."
[23:41] <diddledan> http://faildesk.net/2014/04/24/throw-back-thursday-pic/ <-- why did they need a "turbo" button. I mean who didn't always have that turned "on"?
[23:43] <shauno> kinda makes me sad that we're back to "open this in this browser" again
[23:43] <diddledan> shauno: yeah, blame google
[23:43] <diddledan> shauno: it _might_ work in others but it's a "chrome experiment" so I would guess not
[23:44] <shauno> seems to work fine in Safari
[23:45] <diddledan> works in firefox, too, by the looks
[23:47] <popey> diddledan: because games at the time assumed a 4.77MHz clock speed
[23:47] <popey> and would run too fast if turbo was "on"
[23:47] <popey> I had one on my Epson pc
[23:47] <maps|wrk> hahha turbo neat
[23:47] <popey> which ran at a whopping 8MHz
[23:47] <maps|wrk> lol
[23:48] <diddledan> nuts
[23:49] <diddledan> nucking ones
[23:50] <diddledan> completely ucking fay uts nay
[23:50] <diddledan> :-p
[23:50] <diddledan> swearing by the backdoor!
[23:50]  * diddledan notes the sign that says "family friendly" or some such
[23:50] <shauno> -_-
[23:58] <diddledan> serials? Linux Voice news roundup this month suggests that kernel-devs are considering QR codes for crash reports