jhenkegood morning08:55
=== [1]amigamagic is now known as amigamagic
=== rdf is now known as wrongtime
jhenkesince the archive for utopic exists now, will there be daily images starting tomorrow?16:49
elfynot yet afaik jhenke 16:50
elfyjhenke: atm all upgrading trusty does is install a couple of packages and call it utopic16:54
slickymasterWorkelfy, jhenke, basically it just upgrades the base-files and distro-info-data packages16:58
elfyyea I know :)16:58
elfyI tried last night at 10pm and had to do it this morning instead :p16:58
RFlemingis there a download for utopic?17:44
ochosiRFleming: not yet17:46
RFlemingwas going to say17:47
bluesabre-tmphey Unit19318:52
ali1234ochosi : bug 131168518:55
ubottubug 1311685 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Checkboxes for hidden/visible indicators not working properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131168518:55
ali1234this is really weird ^18:55
ali1234the checkboxes don't redraw, although they work18:56
knome!team | meeting in 518:56
ubottumeeting in 5: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit19318:56
knomehey ochosi 18:58
knomehey Unit193 18:58
ochosiali1234: sounds odd, almost like a gtk3 bug18:58
Unit193knome: Howdy.18:59
ochosialthough i've never encountered that before elsewhere18:59
ali1234i saw a bug like this in OO once, with the gtk UI wrapper18:59
ali1234can you reproduce it?18:59
elfyali1234: I saw that bug this morning - I couldn't reproduce it 18:59
Unit193Back in a bit.18:59
knomehey elfy 18:59
knomeand ali1234 :)18:59
ochosiali1234: nope, works for me as expected18:59
ali1234hmm... maybe depends on theme?19:00
ochosihm, possible19:00
knomecan we get the meeting started soon, we have a lot of items today19:00
elfyI'm ready 19:00
ochosiworth asking19:00
knomehey bluesabre-tmp 19:00
knome#startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting19:00
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Apr 24 19:00:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick19:00
knomei'll skip the action items, updates and announcements...19:01
knome#topic Making sure the Processes page is up-to-date 19:01
knomeif everybody could check that page and see if we are lacking some documentation for any tasks we need to take every cycle...19:02
* ochosi notices that he never actually read that page19:02
knomeit's a relatively new one19:02
knomeand still partly WIP by pleia2, Unit193 and myself19:03
GridCubeknome, can we have time to read the page and give feedback in the week? 19:03
knomei think it would be a good idea to have good documentation of everything around if people need to be away19:03
knomeGridCube, you can send feedback on the mailing list19:03
ochosialso means you don't have to explain things over and over again19:04
knomei just wanted to bring this up now since we have just done everything in the last 6 months19:04
ochosiif you can simply point ppl to a page19:04
GridCubei mean, can that be an action item for the team? 19:04
knomeGridCube, consider it as an always-open action item for the team19:04
knomeif you ever notice the page is missing something, notice people about it19:05
slickymastersorry for being late guys19:05
knomepleia2, are you atound?19:05
knomehey slickymaster, np19:05
* knome mixes up the agenda19:05
knome#topic Plans for 14.04 SRU's19:05
ochosii guess no news on ibus?19:07
ochosithe lock/suspend issue is being worked on19:07
ochosibut no patch so far19:07
knomeagain, this is one of the items that i just wanted to bring up19:07
knomeif there's anything you think should be in there, or if you think something should be dropped, be in touch with the team19:07
knomecurrently, i think everything in the blueprint is more or less SRU material19:07
ochosii guess, honestly i haven't checked all bugreports19:08
knomeok, let's keep on discussing about that and fixing the bugs19:09
knomeand move on19:09
knome#topic Cleaning up Launchpad assets19:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1305585 in Xubuntu Website "Remove unneeded Launchpad assets" [Low,Triaged]19:09
knomeanybody see a (technical reason) to keep these assets?19:09
knomecan't see the first two mentioned ever used19:09
knomethe last one was "used", but doesn't have a technical reason19:10
knomeand seeing that kind of page might be just more confusing than helpful for users19:10
ochosiyeah, the daily and buildbot ones are related19:11
ochosii do think we can get rid of both19:11
ochosiwill later bring up my proposal to replace that19:11
knomeochosi, ok, good19:11
knome#action knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot19:11
meetingologyACTION: knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot19:11
knomewhat about the latter?19:11
knomei guess...19:12
GridCubedoesnt that recieve bug reports?19:12
knomeGridCube, no.19:12
knomeGridCube, maybe load the page yourself and see and stop guessing19:12
GridCubethen i dont see why keeping it if its not being used19:12
GridCubei did that19:12
knome#action knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not19:12
meetingologyACTION: knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not19:12
knome#topic Create a testing PPA common to -team 19:13
knomeochosi, this is yours ;)19:13
ochosiyeah, so since we had a lot of testing going on in the 14.04 cycle through PPAs (and it worked well for us i think), i thought we could set up a team for that19:14
ochosiso that ppl can push packages that ought to get tested during the dev cycle to a common PPA19:14
ochosito make testers lives easier19:14
knomeis there any reason to not link that with ~xubuntu-dev?19:14
ochosiyeah, not all ppl who upload to that ppa might be in that team19:14
ochosii want to have a rather low hurdle for ppl to contribute to that PPA19:15
Unit193-qa made sense to me.19:15
knomewouldn't it make sense to have some kind of moderation for packages that are tested by $all_testers?19:15
bluesabre-tmpwell, we don't want too low19:15
ochosiand if we channel everything through -dev, it won't be fun because that team is too small19:15
knomei'd like the -dev team to have more members than now19:15
ochosiyes, i'd want a team that needs approval19:15
ochosiyeah, but -dev can also push to all branches19:16
ochosithat's not the same as up-ing packages to PPAs19:16
bluesabre-tmpyeah, but with -dev we can verify things before they get pushed19:16
ochosibluesabre-tmp: i don't mind, but it increases the workload19:16
elfybut with -dev then things would take ages to get on the ppa 19:16
knomei would vote for -dev, we shouldn't make it too easy to "mess up" with PPA's19:16
ochosiand might get ppl to just push stuff to their private PPAs19:16
knomeelfy, not really, currently ochosi and bluesabre-tmp are members19:16
knomei'd also suggest at least thinking to add Unit193 and Noskcaj 19:17
elfywell - most of the things that I ended up testing weren't by any of those that have been named19:17
Unit193bluesabre-tmp: You've been rejected. :(19:17
knomeochosi, do you think there would be people who we'd like/trust to push to the PPA, but don't want to give "all branches" permissions?19:18
elfyso I would STILL end up with a personall PPA19:18
slickymasterbrainwash made a few19:18
ochosiknome: brainwash has only been around for one cycle, but he put lots of stuff in his PPA for testing19:18
Unit193slickymaster: They could be pretty quickly copied.19:18
knomeelfy, the point is, those people weren't in that team when we needed them to be19:18
bluesabre-tmpyeah, we can sponsor ppa uploads as needed19:18
knomeso we've been bottlenecking on that19:18
knomei don't mind another team, if there is justification for it19:19
Unit193ochosi: We'd want to make sure to stress to the packagers to not go willie-nillie with it.19:19
knomei just don't want yet another one just because we have one more task to do19:19
ochosiUnit193: sure, i agree19:19
knomeif we can delegate that to one of the current teams, great19:19
knomebluesabre-tmp, not sure what you're +1'ing ;)19:19
ochosiwell as long as it's not just bluesabre-tmp and me reviewing the PPA, i'm fine with -dev19:19
Unit193(Could almost use -team. :P )19:19
knomeUnit193, almost, but not really...19:19
ochosii just wanted to ensure that things are not slowed down because ppl are busy with stuff19:20
elfyochosi: which is my worry - at that point do we gain anything 19:20
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 10844 in Window Buttons "Visual feedback for grouped windows in the panel (tasklist windows buttons plugin)" [Enhancement,New]19:20
knomehow many of the team are around?19:20
elfyamigamagic: not now please 19:20
knomeamigamagic, can you please take it up after the meeting19:20
ochosiso if Unit193 and Noskcaj get added to -dev and agree to help reviewing and managing that i'm fine with that19:20
knomewe might just have quorum19:20
knome(to vote)19:20
amigamagicsorry, I don't know there was a meeting19:21
knometeam members, raise your hand19:21
GridCubei don't understand lp mechanics so i dont feel qualified to vote19:21
knomeone more?19:21
ochosiUnit193: always the funny one, eh? ;)19:21
Unit193ochosi: Yep, pretty much.19:22
knomeso, should we vote about this?19:22
ochosiwhy not19:22
knome(-dev vs. new team)19:22
knomeor do people need more information?19:22
slickymasterIthink so19:22
slickymasterlet's vote it19:22
ochosialthough, for me it depends on how many ppl are in -dv19:22
ochosi-dev i mean19:22
elfyknome: 2 of the people on -team weren't about for more or less the whole cycle 19:22
ochosiand how many want to help with that work19:22
knomeelfy, yeah, but we have quorum even with them counting ;)19:23
knomelet's make an assumption:19:23
Unit193Also, just because you technically can push to the branches, doesn't mean you should or will.19:23
knomeapproximately 2 of the people in -dev are always around19:23
knome#vote Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else19:24
meetingologyPlease vote on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else19:24
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)19:24
bluesabre-tmp(good thing Unit193 does not sleep)19:24
knometeam members can vote.19:24
meetingology+0 received from GridCube19:24
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:24
knomeif you want, you should be able to private vote.19:24
meetingology+1 received from slickymaster19:24
GridCubeagain, i dont feel qualified to say one way or the other19:24
meetingology+1 received from bluesabre-tmp19:24
meetingology+1 received from jjfrv8-work19:24
meetingology+1 received from knome19:24
meetingology+0 received from Unit19319:25
meetingology+0 received from ochosi19:25
knomedo we still miss one?19:26
meetingologyVoting ended on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else19:26
meetingologyVotes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:319:26
meetingologyMotion carried19:26
knometechnically we should carry on the motion19:26
knomebut since it's ochosi's work item...19:26
ochosianyway, i hope this doesnt end up in lots of review-work that ends up not getting done cause it's annoying19:26
ochosibut let's carry on and hope it goes well :)19:27
elfy+1 to that19:27
knome#agreed Testing PPA's to be added under ~xubuntu-dev. Reassess if it adds too much workload/creates a bottleneck.19:28
Unit193ochosi: Around after the meeting?19:28
ochosii'd actually prefer starting with a single ppa19:28
ochosiUnit193: yup19:28
knomeochosi, sure sure, single or multiple PPA's19:28
ochosie.g. "xubuntu+1"19:28
knomethat's up for members in -dev to decide ;)19:28
knome#topic Documentation lead change 19:29
knomeso, here's were we're standing19:29
knomeas discussed, jjfrv8-work wanted to step down from the doc lead position. that would take effect now.19:30
knomejjfrv8-work, THANKS!19:30
elfyjjfrv8-work: thanks for what you have done for us all :)19:30
GridCube:) thanks yes19:30
jjfrv8-workthank you all19:30
knomebut also as discussed, we planned to replace him with slickymaster starting from the U cycle, if he was still up for it and the team agreed19:31
Unit193jjfrv8-work: Indeed, bummer to see you go.19:31
ochosithanks a lot jjfrv8-work 19:31
ochosijjfrv8-work: very sad to see you go :/19:31
slickymasteryes jjfrv8-work, thanks for a splendid work19:31
knomei've asked slickymaster earlier today, and he said he'd still be up for it19:31
knomelet's do a quick vote for that.19:31
ochosijjfrv8-work: will you still keep contributing?19:31
Unit193I think both knome and slickymaster make sense, considering how much both you did with it.19:31
knome#vote Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)19:32
meetingologyPlease vote on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)19:32
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)19:32
meetingology+1 received from knome19:32
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:32
meetingology+1 received from ochosi19:32
meetingology+1 received from Unit19319:32
meetingology+1 received from jjfrv8-work19:32
knomeslickymaster, btw, you are free to vote.19:32
meetingology+0 received from slickymaster19:32
meetingology+1 received from bluesabre-tmp19:32
ochosislickymaster: how modest ;)19:32
knomeGridCube, poke19:33
meetingology+1 received from GridCube19:33
meetingologyVoting ended on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)19:33
meetingologyVotes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:119:33
meetingologyMotion carried19:33
ochosicongrats slickymaster 19:33
slickymasterochosi: modest or fearful?19:33
elfyfearful :p19:33
knome#info Taking effect immediately, David Pires (slickymaster) is the new Xubuntu documentation lead.19:33
knome#action knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today19:34
meetingologyACTION: knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today19:34
knomepleia2, still not around?19:34
knomeok, let's move on19:35
knome#topic Using the project money (gathered from Linux Identity articles)19:35
knomethere was discussing about this, but nothing has actually happened19:35
knomei'm proposing the following:19:35
knomepleia2 printed some "xp to xubuntu" flyers recently19:36
knomelet's cover her printing costs19:36
knome#vote Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)19:36
meetingologyPlease vote on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)19:36
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)19:36
meetingology+1 received from knome19:36
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:36
meetingology+1 received from jjfrv8-work19:36
meetingology+1 received from ochosi19:36
meetingology+1 received from GridCube19:36
knome(let's do it the official way..)19:36
meetingology+1 received from slickymaster19:37
knomebluesabre-tmp, Unit193 19:37
knomewant to vote? :P19:37
meetingology+1 received from bluesabre-tmp19:37
meetingologyVoting ended on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)19:38
meetingologyVotes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:38
meetingologyMotion carried19:38
slickymasterUnit193: finally fell asleep19:38
GridCubeand you went and waked him up19:38
knome#action pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her19:38
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her19:38
knomewe will still have stuff left19:38
knomeis there anything else anybody thinks we should use it for?19:39
knomeGridCube, yes?19:39
GridCubemy always recurring topic19:39
Unit193He meant pay him.19:39
GridCubewe dont have a wallaper of the week thing done yet19:39
GridCubeor desktop of the week rather19:39
knomeGridCube, err, do we need money for that?19:39
GridCubei waht19:40
GridCubeXD sorry19:40
knomethen focus! ;)19:40
Unit193knome: To pay you off?19:40
GridCubei missread19:40
knomesince we've had it for $quite_long, i would propose the following...19:40
knomepay elfy for his headset he bought to be able to take part in vUDS19:40
Unit193Xfce take donations?19:40
knomeUnit193, i guess, but what's the point, they aren't very active? :|19:41
elfyreally really don't want that - thanks though :)19:41
knomeok, then let's not vote19:41
knomei was just thinking... :)19:41
elfythanks for the thought :)19:41
knomei can keep the money on hold still, but i'd rather get it moving sooner or later19:41
bluesabre-tmpany server costs that xubuntu eats?19:41
ochosinot really19:41
Unit193knome: Still wouldn't be here without them, even though I'd like them to be active I'm thankful that they're still there.19:41
ochosixfce still can't accept donations i think19:41
ochosibut i can work on that19:41
knomebluesabre-tmp, shimmer is hosted on xfce19:41
knomebluesabre-tmp, but that's not exactly xubuntu19:42
knomeand i doubt it adds to their costs..19:42
ochosinot really, i think xfce is mostly hosted gratuitiosly19:42
knomeis anybody linked with loco teams that could do something cool xubuntu-related?19:42
pleia2thanks guys19:42
elfyhi pleia2 19:42
pleia2sorry, was at an appointment19:42
knomepleia2, PM me the amount and your paypal addy and i'll get it done today19:43
Unit193knome: OLF is coming up, yes.19:43
knomedo we want a big xubuntu banner?19:43
ochosiknome: what about bug bounty?19:43
knomeis that useful, or do we always go under ubuntu anyway?19:43
knomeochosi, for what bug? :)19:44
ochosithe lid suspend bug?19:44
ochosiany bug that is pressing19:44
ochosior even features19:44
ochosiit has become quite popular recently in foss projects19:44
ochosiand i think it works as a motivation19:44
ochosiand as a reward other than the vocal praise for ppl who actually do stuff19:44
knomei'm fine with that19:44
ochosithey can still decide to donate the money back19:44
ochosior to another bug19:44
knomeif there isn't anything that needs "covering" now, let's hold the money19:45
ochosiwe don't have to spend it all on one bug19:45
knomeideas always welcome19:45
knome#topic Review and discuss team reporting 19:45
knomepleia2! :)19:45
pleia2oh yes19:46
pleia2so I've really just been copying the action items from meetings into our team reports19:46
pleia2March is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/14/March19:46
ochosipleia2: thanks, a lot better than having to write them ;)19:46
knomeyes, that's an improvement19:47
pleia2I think it's going ok :)19:47
knomenow if #done only worked...19:47
pleia2heh, right19:47
knomewell, let's use it19:48
knomeactually not19:48
pleia2anyway, I think we're ok continuing this for the time being, unless anyone else wants to do more work on reports19:49
knomebut money is sent to pleia2, and $0.40 fee covered by the xubuntu team ;)19:49
ochosipleia2: +119:49
ochosithanks for doing that19:49
knomeyeah, thanks19:49
knomewe should probably mention it in the processes page that the one adding the meeting minutes should also update the team updates page.19:50
knomeand if it's the first meeting of the month, cycle the monthly pages19:50
knome#topic Use a common area for detailed discussions notes such as Trello19:50
knomeelfy, 19:51
Unit193I tended to ignore it. :/19:51
knomeUnit193, wait, when did you add the meeting minutes? ;)19:51
slickymasterI felt it useful19:51
* GridCube leaves19:51
pleia2if it's valuable to folks, I think trello is lovely to use, but I have my own todo lists so "update trello" tends to land there :)19:52
elfyok - so I was just thinking about us communicating a bit better - I spent a lot of time last cycle - going over the same ground - I really don't want to do that again19:52
knomebesides, that link is bogus19:52
slickymasterand elfy and I did use it quite a lot in -qa19:52
ochosiyeah, trello is very good to use19:52
elfyand it worked for those of -qa that did use it 19:52
bluesabre-tmpelfy, you should harrass everyone with !team19:52
knomeelfy, is it about communication about "what do we need to do (generally)" ?19:52
knomeelfy, or specific action items people need to take?19:53
ochosieven for managing progress, i'd actually prefer it to the clunky blueprints on launchpad (if it were integrated in launchpad)19:53
knomethe positive side to LP is the good status page.19:53
elfyit's more general - there's not anywhere other than blueprints to actually write anything - and that would soon be a nightmare19:53
Unit193ochosi: Nah, if it were on LP, it'd be far slower.19:54
knomeelfy, want to expand the spec for next week?19:54
ochosiUnit193: hehe, yeah, there we go :p19:54
knomeelfy, eg. briefly cover what we would use it for, and maybe some action screenshots19:54
elfybut if we don't do that - we do need to do something19:55
knome#action elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow19:55
meetingologyACTION: elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow19:55
knomeelfy, yep, anything that works for the team :)19:55
knomeokay, and now the item you have all been waiting for19:55
knome#topic Project future: New project lead, council, or something else? 19:55
knomewb Unit193 ;)19:55
ochosiUnit193: feeling so nervous..?19:56
elfytoo late - we voted Unit193 in :p19:56
knomeyou have just voted the next XPL19:56
knometoo bad :|19:56
knomejoking aside...19:56
knomei think we should organize a call for XPL nominations19:56
slickymasterthe decison was taken long ago in the backstages19:56
knomethere's a specific reason why i say this...19:57
elfyknome: and how long will we wait for that19:57
knomei'll do the call at latest on monday19:57
pleia2now that our team is more than 4 people, I think we could actually support a small council if we wanted to go that route19:57
knomethen some time to gather nominations19:57
* knome refrains from disclosing the reason19:57
knome...but other people can.19:57
* elfy thinks we should have called earlier19:57
knomeelfy, would have been madness to do that during the release19:58
knomeit has always gone like this19:58
ochosielfy: knome is still here ;)19:58
elfyyea - I know that :)19:58
ochosiso it's his problem if there's no new xpl, he'll just have to stay :D19:58
pleia2time machines ftw19:58
knomewell, if no nominations are sent...19:58
knomethen we will have to investigate other options19:59
* pleia2 nods19:59
ochosiafter loooong consideration and discussions...19:59
knomebut as pleia2 said... yes, we could sustain a council19:59
ochosii've started to consider applying for the terrible terrible burden that knome has been carrying for us19:59
Unit193Well that could solve that.20:00
ochosithere were a few subsequent discussions with bluesabre 20:00
ochosi(who unfortunately left the meeting as it seems)20:00
ochosiso anyway, we can talk about that when he's around again i guess20:01
knomeanyway... i would very much like to see a "single" XPL instead of council20:01
knomehey bluesabre-tmp!20:01
ochosioh, speak of the devil20:01
elfyI would prefer to see a single one as well if we can 20:01
pleia2knome: me too!20:02
knomei would also say that we need to lessen the burden20:02
ochosiyes, ok, so now that bluesabre-tmp is around again20:02
bluesabre-tmpok, what did I miss?20:02
knomeif at all possible20:02
knomebluesabre-tmp, you're the new XPL20:02
knomebluesabre-tmp, just voted on that20:02
ochosibluesabre-tmp: i can pastebin you the backlog20:02
ochosior you can check the online-log20:02
slickymasterochosi propsed you and we all agreed20:02
bluesabre-tmpochosi: sure, trying to navigate as little as possible since I'm testhering on my phone20:03
pleia2seriously though, knome will do call for nominations by monday20:04
elfyknome: so how will we lessen the burden?20:04
knomepasted to bluesabre-tmp's PM20:04
knomeso basically,20:04
knomewell that's one of the things to do imo ^20:04
knomewe need to rethink "who" is it who does all the heavy lifting20:04
knometo me, it feels natural that the -release team had a bit more responsbility, but also power20:04
knomeyes, i will.20:04
knomerelease team could take some of the paperwork20:04
knomethat is, filing exception bugs20:04
knomei've been cooperating a lot in -release, and have been happy to see elfy do that as well20:05
elfythey're not too bad in there ;)20:06
knomemaybe there could be team members who would make sure the blueprints are up-to-date20:06
knomeor whatever method we are using20:06
elfycan't team leads do their blueprints?20:06
knomeideally, all people would manage their own work items20:06
pleia2yeah, I could do a much better job of my blueprints20:06
knomesure, that works as well if it... works20:06
ochosiyeah, i think it's hard to formalize that process20:06
ochosii mean we can say, we create a subset of ppl who handle blueprints20:07
knomeochosi, since you have been pondering this, is there something else you are afraid of?20:07
elfywell I'm happy enough to do qa ones20:07
knomei don't think it's a bad idea that everybody *can*20:07
ochosiafter thinking more about it, not that much20:07
ochosithere's just stuff that you've been doing that i haven't done often (like chairing meetings)20:07
knomeif a work item is assigned to [user], user should make sure it's updated20:07
ochosiand you're irc-ier than me20:07
knomefor chairing meetings, i'd really love to see a rotating chair or something20:08
ochosiwould be cool20:08
* elfy hates driving the bot 20:08
knomei guess nobody likes it20:08
ochosii assume that too20:08
elfyit drives on the wrong side of the road :p20:08
bluesabre-tmpI'm usually not able to make it to these mettings20:08
knomebluesabre-tmp, then we should reschedule20:09
Unit193I tend to miss the beginning.20:09
knomei've no problem with varying meeting times20:09
knomewe can even let the chair mostly decide the time.20:09
ochosiwe can have them cycle around a bit20:09
knomewell take all team leaders, or team members20:09
ochosito make sure all team members can attend once a month at least20:09
bluesabre-tmphm, this sounds like a good idea20:09
knomecycle through them evenly20:09
knomewhen it's your turn, schedule how you wish20:09
knomeand others will, or won't, be available20:10
elfymmm not sure about that20:10
ochosimakes chairing more comfortable20:10
knomeit's not a huge issue that everybody is not being able to make it20:10
knomewe have the meeting minutes20:10
knomeand we have the mailing list20:10
slickymasteris there any channel where one could do some sort of testdrives knome?20:10
ochosiyeah, and ppl are around anyway20:10
knomeslickymaster, #meetingology20:10
knomeelfy, express your concerns :)20:10
* elfy test drives the bot in FC meetings sometimes 20:11
elfyhang on - just getting the words right :)20:11
elfyI'd worry about meetings at that point end up being empty - nothing would get done 20:11
elfyin time20:12
knomeit'd be good practice to make sure at least somebody is able to make it ;)20:12
elfyhow about a straw poll with a doodle poll of general times 20:12
knomewe've done that too many times IMO20:12
knomeany time always seems to be perfect20:12
knomethen when we start running the meetings at that time, people can't come20:12
knomewhich is one of the reason why i think a "moving target" could work just as well...20:13
elfysecond thought - a -team mailing list - at least then we'd be able to have targetted discussions20:13
knomeelfy, i could +1 that20:13
bluesabre-tmpI like that idea20:13
knomewould *only* team members be allowed to send?20:13
elfylike a 'council' list 20:14
knomebecause if not, soon it would become xubuntu-dev-team-please-include-libreoffice20:14
elfyexactly 20:14
knomewhat do others think?20:14
knomepleia2, i know you're opposed to redundant infrastructure, so i want your opinion20:14
elfythen at that point - we'd have 'votes' on issues that can be taken to meetings whatever time they are20:14
ochosiwe can give it a try20:14
elfyor 20:15
knome#action knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list20:15
meetingologyACTION: knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list20:15
knomeelfy, yeah?20:16
elfyif we do go to something like trello - we could make that private20:16
knomewell, that's a bit meh20:16
knomeor maybe not20:16
bluesabre-tmptrello does do emails notifications20:16
knomebluesabre-tmp, yeah, but is it about all changes?20:16
knomei don't want dumb diffs :(20:16
knomei want well-written, thought out mails20:17
bluesabre-tmpit's "hey, you've missed 4 updates!"20:17
elfyknome: that 20:17
slickymastertheoretically elfy's idea has potential20:17
bluesabre-tmpI know because ochosi keep updating a trello that I should be contributing to20:17
knomebluesabre-tmp, yeah, that's just email "crap"20:17
knomeeven if it was about meaningful things20:17
elfyI'd be inclined to m/l rather than trello for team stuff though20:17
knomeanother idea is20:17
knomeadd some moderators and take out the whip at -devel mailing list20:18
* Unit193 would be a bad choice.20:18
elfydon't like that idea 20:18
knomewe can make people's mails autoadded to moderation queue by email address20:18
knomei think we need to do $something for the -devel list nonetheless20:18
knomeespecially if we create a -team mailing list20:18
knomebecause at that point, -devel could very easily turn into -feature-requests20:19
knomei'm still waiting for any input from pleia2 :)20:19
elfynot really - most of the stuff that goes to -devel is general 20:19
elfyly what it should be - call's etc 20:20
knomeelfy, most of the stuff there now is stuff that could be in -users20:20
pleia2it's not like -devel is overwhelming20:20
slickymasteryes, it could perfectley land on xubuntu mailing list20:20
knomewell, most of the stuff by non-team-members..20:20
elfysince release I'd agree 20:20
knomedo we want to design a tag for team communication?20:21
knomepleia2, ^20:21
elfypleia2: what we were discussing was a new private m/l for -team20:21
pleia2elfy: yeah20:21
knomei know anybody can use that, but...20:21
knomemight be possible to autosend to moderation queue if it's not from team member emails20:21
pleia2so launchpad makes it very easy for us to create a private list there20:21
elfyknome: well - I did for a while mail the list with [TEAM] in the subject 20:21
knomepleia2, launchpad lists are meh.20:22
ochosiholy crap, there is a scorpion in our appartment (no kidding!)20:22
elfygot a couple of replies20:22
elfygood lord 20:22
pleia2knome: I don't know that we'd need it for a lot anyway :) mostly we just talk here tbh20:22
knomepleia2, i'd just make IS create another20:22
bluesabre-tmpochosi is not going to make it20:22
knomewell, related to this20:22
knomeit was brought up by lionel (mrpouit) that it's getting harder and harder for him to follow/help with development since he's now a lot less in IRC20:22
Unit193Uhh.  I'm still stuck at where he said "scorpion"...20:22
knomeso i think we are being (partly unconsciously) in exclusive20:23
knomepleia2, send meeting minutes there?20:24
knomepleia2, run votes there20:24
knomelet's do a quick, non-finally-decisive vote20:24
elfyknome: 20:24
Logan_yes hello is this a meeting thing20:24
knometo get a general idea what people think20:25
knomeLogan_, yes, very much20:25
knomeelfy, 20:25
elfyif we went to -team m/l we could have -release team as the moderators 20:25
bluesabre-tmphey Logan_ :)20:25
bluesabre-tmpoh yeah, knome, my -release is about to expire, and it said to message you20:25
elfyor something - so it's not just another XPL task20:25
knomeelfy, yes, though we wouldn't need much20:25
elfybluesabre-tmp: he knows :)20:25
knomebluesabre-tmp, yep, just a sec20:25
elfyknome: nope - just when people move in and out of -team20:26
elfybut yea a quick vote wfm20:26
knome#vote Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)20:26
meetingologyPlease vote on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)20:26
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)20:26
meetingology+1 received from knome20:26
meetingology+1 received from elfy20:26
meetingology+1 received from bluesabre-tmp20:26
meetingology+1 received from slickymaster20:27
meetingology+0 received from pleia220:27
knomebluesabre-tmp, elfy: i've extended you for a month in -release, until we get a new XPL/council/something20:28
bluesabre-tmpknome: thanks20:28
knomebluesabre-tmp, elfy: let's reassess the situation at that point20:28
elfyok - ta20:28
knomeother team members?20:28
knome#action knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list20:29
meetingologyACTION: knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list20:29
meetingologyVoting ended on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)20:29
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:120:29
meetingologyMotion carried20:29
knomeok, finally..20:29
knome#subtopic Team leaders20:29
knomeochosi, pleia2, elfy: you fine to continue with your leader hats? :)20:29
* knome bows to elfy 20:30
elfyas long as people are ok with it of course20:30
* knome bows to pleia2 20:30
pleia2knome: we should chat re: website at some point though, if you are no xpl, you may want that hat :)20:30
knomei don't think we are generally voting about (non-project) team leads20:30
knomepleia2, we can20:30
knomei don't want anything in 6 months20:30
knomebut i'm by tentatively open for stuff after that20:31
bluesabre-tmpI'd be willing to apply for technical lead, not sure if others are currently interested20:31
knomei would approve that direction20:32
knomehaving a technical lead that's around would also help with the XPL burden20:32
* pleia2 nods20:33
Unit193bluesabre-tmp: Get uploader rights. ;)20:33
knomei'm all open for other nomiations as well, but i'd say it's a big pro if you are actually around.20:33
bluesabre-tmpUnit193: yeah, thats the next step20:33
knome#action New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead20:34
meetingologyACTION: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead20:34
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: ACTION20:34
knome#action new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead20:34
meetingologyACTION: new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead20:34
knome#nick new-xpl20:34
knome#topic Other issues20:35
knomeanything else?20:35
knomeyeah, i think we are done and all exhausted :)20:35
knome#topic Next meeting20:36
elfynow't from me for sure20:36
bluesabre-tmpin 5 minutes20:36
pleia2I'm gone next week20:36
knomei might be away @may 1 too20:36
knomeis *monday* a bad day for people?20:36
knomethat is, may 520:37
slickymasterI'll be away between april 30th and may 5th20:37
elfyfine for me 20:37
knomeslickymaster, including 5, or not?20:37
bluesabre-tmpgood for e20:37
pleia2I'm gone then too :)20:37
bluesabre-tmpcinco de mayo20:37
slickymasterexcluding knome 20:37
knomewell what about tuseday may 6?20:37
slickymasterworkday the 5th20:37
knomepleia2, better? :P20:37
pleia2I'm back on wednesday :D20:38
knomelet's do email stuff then20:38
knomeand have a meeting on thursday20:38
knomethe regular time20:38
knome#info Next meeting: May 8, 19 UTC20:39
knomelet's hope we have XPL submission mostly in by that20:39
knomecan not quite be, because need 2 weeks20:39
knomeanyway, thanks!20:39
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Apr 24 20:39:38 2014 UTC.  20:39
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-24-19.00.moin.txt20:39
elfythanks knome 20:39
pleia2thanks knome 20:39
bluesabre-tmpthanks knome20:39
Unit193Well if the scorpion didn't get him...20:39
bluesabre-tmplater everyone20:39
* knome encore-bows20:39
knomeUnit193, :|20:39
slickymasterthanks knome 20:39
slickymasterfinally dinner20:40
slickymasterbbl ->20:40
elfyochosi: safely back I hope :)20:44
ochosiyeah, caught the scorpio and escorted him out20:44
ochosigf is still in a bit of a shock20:45
elfyI bet :)20:45
ochosibut we can laugh again already20:45
elfyha ha ha 20:45
ochosiwill post a photo later20:46
knomephew, the future of the project is safe again20:46
pleia2xubuntu has a "bitten by a scorpion" factor of 1 :\20:47
ochosiactually he was tiny, about 3-4cm long20:48
ochosibut still, if you've never seen one...20:48
ochosiin your bathroom!20:48
pleia2I hear the smaller ones more dangerous :)20:48
ochosiwill take this to #xubuntu-scorpions now20:49
ochosi(a channel for music and animal lovers)20:49
knomewas thinking about that20:49
knomemeeting minutes are up20:50
knomeslickymaster, around?21:37
knomeXubuntu/Leaders updated21:40
knomeochosi, your TZ as well21:40
ochosiknome: the TZ is the same though21:42
knomeyeah ;)21:42
ochosiand it'll change again in less time than lies behind us when it wasn't correct :)21:42
knomemaybe we should just stick to UTC+bleh timezones.21:43
knomewhich would be more useful anyway21:43
knomefeel free to do that change if you please21:43
slickymasterknome, I am now21:47
knomeslickymaster, you're listed in Xubunut/Leaders now.21:48
slickymasterok knome, thanks21:58
knome"it's out": https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-April/010087.html22:15
ochosiupdated leaders/tz22:20
ochosiis that what you had in mind, knome ^ ?22:21
knomethat looks good22:22
knomethough DST is meh22:22
knomejust saying...22:22
ochosiyeah, not really my fault :)22:22
ochosiam i the only one who thinks it's a bit odd that previous leaders start from oldest to newest?22:25
knomeyou can switch that if you wish22:25
knomei don't think it matters much22:25
ochosiyeah, probably not22:25
ochosijust took me a while to figure out what the sorting was22:25
knomemore mail @ -devel22:27
knomeochosi, re: sort order, i think it made most sense if it was ordered by "from" time22:29
knomebut when did lionel begin his tech lead journey?22:29
ochosiyeah, well, let's just leave it for now22:33
ochosiit really isn't as important, as you correctly said22:33
ochosithis is actually a bit sucky: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/130691722:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1306917 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker: screen always automatically locked" [Undecided,Confirmed]22:49
ochosiseems it's just a small fluke in one of our config files though22:49
ochosior: lls not reading it correctly22:50
brainwash_ochosi: so you want to reward people for fixing the annoying post release bugs instead of fixing them yourself? :D22:59
ochosibrainwash_: could be a nice way of getting more/new ppl involved22:59
brainwash_we could use crypto currency for this purpose22:59
ochosinobody can ever do/fix everything themselves22:59
knomei'll disapprove that.22:59
brainwash_you don't like dogecoin and co? :(23:00
knomeif they didn't drag so many people who are completely lost, they could be tolerable23:01
brainwash_a nice overview with different stats about current bugs could help, something like a top list to encourage users to fix the most annoying bugs23:08
ochosianyway, this doesn't have to be restricted to bugs, it can be about features too23:11
brainwash_this would emphasize the value of xubuntu being a community project23:12
knomei'm not sure how the fact that we pay to contributors, in a way or another, emphasizes the community aspect?23:14
brainwash_the nice overview will23:15
knomedon't we have those on a blueprint already?23:16
brainwash_paying people won't work anyway23:16
brainwash_blueprints are ugly23:17
brainwash_mmh, paying people could work nicely... if paid by the community23:19
brainwash_like donating23:19
brainwash_now we only need to pay someone to implement and maintain such a system :)23:21
ochosii think that we can look to elementary and see how they handle it23:22
knomeit shouldn't be too hard to set that up, and i would like if it pulled the core data from LP23:23
knomeagain, as with other stuff, if people think it's useful...23:30
knome...i can have a look at it23:30
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 10846 in Window Buttons "Grouped icons sometimes are wrongly rendered as a mini-icon" [Minor,New]23:59

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