[08:55] good morning === [1]amigamagic is now known as amigamagic === rdf is now known as wrongtime [16:49] since the archive for utopic exists now, will there be daily images starting tomorrow? [16:50] not yet afaik jhenke [16:54] jhenke: atm all upgrading trusty does is install a couple of packages and call it utopic [16:58] elfy, jhenke, basically it just upgrades the base-files and distro-info-data packages [16:58] yea I know :) [16:58] I tried last night at 10pm and had to do it this morning instead :p [17:44] is there a download for utopic? [17:46] RFleming: not yet [17:47] was going to say [17:47] :) [18:51] \o [18:51] Howdy. [18:52] hey Unit193 [18:55] ochosi : bug 1311685 [18:55] bug 1311685 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Checkboxes for hidden/visible indicators not working properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311685 [18:55] this is really weird ^ [18:56] the checkboxes don't redraw, although they work [18:56] !team | meeting in 5 [18:56] meeting in 5: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 [18:58] hey ochosi [18:58] hey Unit193 [18:58] ali1234: sounds odd, almost like a gtk3 bug [18:59] knome: Howdy. [18:59] although i've never encountered that before elsewhere [18:59] i saw a bug like this in OO once, with the gtk UI wrapper [18:59] can you reproduce it? [18:59] ali1234: I saw that bug this morning - I couldn't reproduce it [18:59] Back in a bit. [18:59] hey elfy [18:59] and ali1234 :) [18:59] ali1234: nope, works for me as expected [19:00] hmm... maybe depends on theme? [19:00] hm, possible [19:00] can we get the meeting started soon, we have a lot of items today [19:00] I'm ready [19:00] \o/ [19:00] worth asking [19:00] hey bluesabre-tmp [19:00] #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting [19:00] Meeting started Thu Apr 24 19:00:48 2014 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [19:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [19:01] i'll skip the action items, updates and announcements... [19:01] #topic Making sure the Processes page is up-to-date [19:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes [19:02] if everybody could check that page and see if we are lacking some documentation for any tasks we need to take every cycle... [19:02] * ochosi notices that he never actually read that page [19:02] it's a relatively new one [19:03] and still partly WIP by pleia2, Unit193 and myself [19:03] knome, can we have time to read the page and give feedback in the week? [19:03] i think it would be a good idea to have good documentation of everything around if people need to be away [19:03] +1 [19:03] GridCube, you can send feedback on the mailing list [19:04] also means you don't have to explain things over and over again [19:04] i just wanted to bring this up now since we have just done everything in the last 6 months [19:04] if you can simply point ppl to a page [19:04] yep [19:04] i mean, can that be an action item for the team? [19:04] GridCube, consider it as an always-open action item for the team [19:04] alright [19:05] if you ever notice the page is missing something, notice people about it [19:05] sorry for being late guys [19:05] pleia2, are you atound? [19:05] sure [19:05] *around [19:05] hey slickymaster, np [19:05] * knome mixes up the agenda [19:05] #topic Plans for 14.04 SRU's [19:05] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-14-04-point-1 [19:07] i guess no news on ibus? [19:07] no [19:07] the lock/suspend issue is being worked on [19:07] but no patch so far [19:07] again, this is one of the items that i just wanted to bring up [19:07] if there's anything you think should be in there, or if you think something should be dropped, be in touch with the team [19:07] currently, i think everything in the blueprint is more or less SRU material [19:08] i guess, honestly i haven't checked all bugreports [19:09] ok, let's keep on discussing about that and fixing the bugs [19:09] and move on [19:09] #topic Cleaning up Launchpad assets [19:09] https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1305585 [19:09] Launchpad bug 1305585 in Xubuntu Website "Remove unneeded Launchpad assets" [Low,Triaged] [19:09] anybody see a (technical reason) to keep these assets? [19:09] can't see the first two mentioned ever used [19:10] the last one was "used", but doesn't have a technical reason [19:10] and seeing that kind of page might be just more confusing than helpful for users [19:11] yeah, the daily and buildbot ones are related [19:11] yep [19:11] i do think we can get rid of both [19:11] will later bring up my proposal to replace that [19:11] ochosi, ok, good [19:11] #action knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot [19:11] ACTION: knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot [19:11] what about the latter? [19:12] i guess... [19:12] doesnt that recieve bug reports? [19:12] GridCube, no. [19:12] GridCube, maybe load the page yourself and see and stop guessing [19:12] then i dont see why keeping it if its not being used [19:12] i did that [19:12] #action knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not [19:12] ACTION: knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not [19:13] #topic Create a testing PPA common to -team [19:13] ochosi, this is yours ;) [19:14] yeah, so since we had a lot of testing going on in the 14.04 cycle through PPAs (and it worked well for us i think), i thought we could set up a team for that [19:14] so that ppl can push packages that ought to get tested during the dev cycle to a common PPA [19:14] to make testers lives easier [19:14] is there any reason to not link that with ~xubuntu-dev? [19:14] yeah, not all ppl who upload to that ppa might be in that team [19:15] i want to have a rather low hurdle for ppl to contribute to that PPA [19:15] -qa made sense to me. [19:15] wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of moderation for packages that are tested by $all_testers? [19:15] well, we don't want too low [19:15] and if we channel everything through -dev, it won't be fun because that team is too small [19:15] i'd like the -dev team to have more members than now [19:15] yes, i'd want a team that needs approval [19:16] yeah, but -dev can also push to all branches [19:16] that's not the same as up-ing packages to PPAs [19:16] yeah, but with -dev we can verify things before they get pushed [19:16] bluesabre-tmp: i don't mind, but it increases the workload [19:16] yeah [19:16] but with -dev then things would take ages to get on the ppa [19:16] i would vote for -dev, we shouldn't make it too easy to "mess up" with PPA's [19:16] and might get ppl to just push stuff to their private PPAs [19:16] elfy, not really, currently ochosi and bluesabre-tmp are members [19:17] ^ [19:17] mmm [19:17] i'd also suggest at least thinking to add Unit193 and Noskcaj [19:17] +2 [19:17] well - most of the things that I ended up testing weren't by any of those that have been named [19:17] bluesabre-tmp: You've been rejected. :( [19:18] ochosi, do you think there would be people who we'd like/trust to push to the PPA, but don't want to give "all branches" permissions? [19:18] so I would STILL end up with a personall PPA [19:18] brainwash made a few [19:18] knome: brainwash has only been around for one cycle, but he put lots of stuff in his PPA for testing [19:18] slickymaster: They could be pretty quickly copied. [19:18] elfy, the point is, those people weren't in that team when we needed them to be [19:18] yeah, we can sponsor ppa uploads as needed [19:18] right [19:18] so we've been bottlenecking on that [19:19] i don't mind another team, if there is justification for it [19:19] ochosi: We'd want to make sure to stress to the packagers to not go willie-nillie with it. [19:19] +1 [19:19] i just don't want yet another one just because we have one more task to do [19:19] Unit193: sure, i agree [19:19] if we can delegate that to one of the current teams, great [19:19] bluesabre-tmp, not sure what you're +1'ing ;) [19:19] well as long as it's not just bluesabre-tmp and me reviewing the PPA, i'm fine with -dev [19:19] (Could almost use -team. :P ) [19:19] Unit193, almost, but not really... [19:20] i just wanted to ensure that things are not slowed down because ppl are busy with stuff [19:20] ochosi: which is my worry - at that point do we gain anything [19:20] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10844 [19:20] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10844 in Window Buttons "Visual feedback for grouped windows in the panel (tasklist windows buttons plugin)" [Enhancement,New] [19:20] how many of the team are around? [19:20] amigamagic: not now please [19:20] amigamagic, can you please take it up after the meeting [19:20] so if Unit193 and Noskcaj get added to -dev and agree to help reviewing and managing that i'm fine with that [19:20] we might just have quorum [19:20] (to vote) [19:21] sorry, I don't know there was a meeting [19:21] team members, raise your hand [19:21] o/ [19:21] o/ [19:21] i don't understand lp mechanics so i dont feel qualified to vote [19:21] o/ [19:21] o/ [19:21] o/ [19:21] o/ [19:21] \o [19:21] one more? [19:21] o/ [19:21] Unit193: always the funny one, eh? ;) [19:22] great [19:22] ochosi: Yep, pretty much. [19:22] hehe [19:22] so, should we vote about this? [19:22] why not [19:22] (-dev vs. new team) [19:22] or do people need more information? [19:22] Ithink so [19:22] let's vote it [19:22] although, for me it depends on how many ppl are in -dv [19:22] -dev i mean [19:22] knome: 2 of the people on -team weren't about for more or less the whole cycle [19:22] and how many want to help with that work [19:23] elfy, yeah, but we have quorum even with them counting ;) [19:23] let's make an assumption: [19:23] Also, just because you technically can push to the branches, doesn't mean you should or will. [19:23] approximately 2 of the people in -dev are always around [19:24] #vote Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else [19:24] Please vote on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else [19:24] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [19:24] (good thing Unit193 does not sleep) [19:24] team members can vote. [19:24] +0 [19:24] +0 received from GridCube [19:24] +1 [19:24] +1 received from elfy [19:24] if you want, you should be able to private vote. [19:24] +1 [19:24] +1 received from slickymaster [19:24] again, i dont feel qualified to say one way or the other [19:24] +1 [19:24] +1 received from bluesabre-tmp [19:24] +1 [19:24] +1 received from jjfrv8-work [19:24] +1 [19:24] +1 received from knome [19:25] +0 [19:25] +0 received from Unit193 [19:25] +0 [19:25] +0 received from ochosi [19:26] do we still miss one? [19:26] no [19:26] #endvote [19:26] Voting ended on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else [19:26] Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3 [19:26] Motion carried [19:26] technically we should carry on the motion [19:26] but since it's ochosi's work item... [19:26] anyway, i hope this doesnt end up in lots of review-work that ends up not getting done cause it's annoying [19:27] right [19:27] but let's carry on and hope it goes well :) [19:27] :) [19:27] +1 to that [19:28] #agreed Testing PPA's to be added under ~xubuntu-dev. Reassess if it adds too much workload/creates a bottleneck. [19:28] ochosi: Around after the meeting? [19:28] i'd actually prefer starting with a single ppa [19:28] Unit193: yup [19:28] ochosi, sure sure, single or multiple PPA's [19:28] :) [19:28] e.g. "xubuntu+1" [19:28] that's up for members in -dev to decide ;) [19:28] right [19:29] #topic Documentation lead change [19:29] so, here's were we're standing [19:29] +h [19:29] yes... [19:29] thanks. [19:30] as discussed, jjfrv8-work wanted to step down from the doc lead position. that would take effect now. [19:30] jjfrv8-work, THANKS! [19:30] :( [19:30] jjfrv8-work: thanks for what you have done for us all :) [19:30] :) thanks yes [19:30] thank you all [19:31] but also as discussed, we planned to replace him with slickymaster starting from the U cycle, if he was still up for it and the team agreed [19:31] jjfrv8-work: Indeed, bummer to see you go. [19:31] thanks a lot jjfrv8-work [19:31] jjfrv8-work: very sad to see you go :/ [19:31] yes jjfrv8-work, thanks for a splendid work [19:31] i've asked slickymaster earlier today, and he said he'd still be up for it [19:31] weeee [19:31] let's do a quick vote for that. [19:31] jjfrv8-work: will you still keep contributing? [19:31] absolutely [19:31] I think both knome and slickymaster make sense, considering how much both you did with it. [19:31] good [19:32] #vote Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote) [19:32] Please vote on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote) [19:32] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [19:32] +1 [19:32] +1 received from knome [19:32] +1 [19:32] +1 received from elfy [19:32] +1 [19:32] +1 received from ochosi [19:32] +1 [19:32] +1 received from Unit193 [19:32] +1 [19:32] +1 received from jjfrv8-work [19:32] slickymaster, btw, you are free to vote. [19:32] +0 [19:32] +0 received from slickymaster [19:32] :) [19:32] :P [19:32] +1 [19:32] +1 received from bluesabre-tmp [19:32] slickymaster: how modest ;) [19:33] GridCube, poke [19:33] +1 [19:33] +1 received from GridCube [19:33] #endvote [19:33] Voting ended on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote) [19:33] Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 [19:33] Motion carried [19:33] congrats slickymaster [19:33] ochosi: modest or fearful? [19:33] :> [19:33] fearful :p [19:33] #info Taking effect immediately, David Pires (slickymaster) is the new Xubuntu documentation lead. [19:34] #action knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today [19:34] ACTION: knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today [19:34] pleia2, still not around? [19:35] ok, let's move on [19:35] #topic Using the project money (gathered from Linux Identity articles) [19:35] there was discussing about this, but nothing has actually happened [19:35] i'm proposing the following: [19:36] pleia2 printed some "xp to xubuntu" flyers recently [19:36] let's cover her printing costs [19:36] sure [19:36] +1 [19:36] agreed [19:36] +1 [19:36] #vote Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote) [19:36] Please vote on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote) [19:36] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [19:36] +1 [19:36] +1 received from knome [19:36] +1 [19:36] +1 received from elfy [19:36] +1 [19:36] +1 received from jjfrv8-work [19:36] +1 [19:36] +1 received from ochosi [19:36] +1 [19:36] +1 received from GridCube [19:36] (let's do it the official way..) [19:37] +1 [19:37] +1 received from slickymaster [19:37] bluesabre-tmp, Unit193 [19:37] want to vote? :P [19:37] +1 [19:37] +1 received from bluesabre-tmp [19:38] #endvote [19:38] Voting ended on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote) [19:38] Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [19:38] Motion carried [19:38] Unit193: finally fell asleep [19:38] :D [19:38] Hah. [19:38] and you went and waked him up [19:38] #action pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her [19:38] ACTION: pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her [19:38] we will still have stuff left [19:39] is there anything else anybody thinks we should use it for? [19:39] o/ [19:39] GridCube, yes? [19:39] my always recurring topic [19:39] He meant pay him. [19:39] heh. [19:39] :) [19:39] we dont have a wallaper of the week thing done yet [19:39] or desktop of the week rather [19:39] GridCube, err, do we need money for that? [19:39] no [19:40] i waht [19:40] XD sorry [19:40] then focus! ;) [19:40] knome: To pay you off? [19:40] hah. [19:40] i missread [19:40] since we've had it for $quite_long, i would propose the following... [19:40] pay elfy for his headset he bought to be able to take part in vUDS [19:40] :) [19:40] Xfce take donations? [19:41] Unit193, i guess, but what's the point, they aren't very active? :| [19:41] really really don't want that - thanks though :) [19:41] ok, then let's not vote [19:41] i was just thinking... :) [19:41] thanks for the thought :) [19:41] i can keep the money on hold still, but i'd rather get it moving sooner or later [19:41] any server costs that xubuntu eats? [19:41] not really [19:41] knome: Still wouldn't be here without them, even though I'd like them to be active I'm thankful that they're still there. [19:41] xfce still can't accept donations i think [19:41] but i can work on that [19:41] bluesabre-tmp, shimmer is hosted on xfce [19:42] bluesabre-tmp, but that's not exactly xubuntu [19:42] and i doubt it adds to their costs.. [19:42] not really, i think xfce is mostly hosted gratuitiosly [19:42] is anybody linked with loco teams that could do something cool xubuntu-related? [19:42] thanks guys [19:42] hi pleia2 [19:42] skellat [19:42] sorry, was at an appointment [19:43] pleia2, PM me the amount and your paypal addy and i'll get it done today [19:43] knome: OLF is coming up, yes. [19:43] do we want a big xubuntu banner? [19:43] knome: what about bug bounty? [19:43] is that useful, or do we always go under ubuntu anyway? [19:44] ochosi, for what bug? :) [19:44] the lid suspend bug? [19:44] any bug that is pressing [19:44] or even features [19:44] it has become quite popular recently in foss projects [19:44] and i think it works as a motivation [19:44] and as a reward other than the vocal praise for ppl who actually do stuff [19:44] i'm fine with that [19:44] they can still decide to donate the money back [19:44] or to another bug [19:45] if there isn't anything that needs "covering" now, let's hold the money [19:45] we don't have to spend it all on one bug [19:45] ideas always welcome [19:45] ok [19:45] #topic Review and discuss team reporting [19:45] pleia2! :) [19:46] oh yes [19:46] so I've really just been copying the action items from meetings into our team reports [19:46] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports [19:46] March is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/14/March [19:46] pleia2: thanks, a lot better than having to write them ;) [19:47] indeed! [19:47] yes, that's an improvement [19:47] I think it's going ok :) [19:47] now if #done only worked... [19:47] heh, right [19:48] well, let's use it [19:48] actually not [19:49] anyway, I think we're ok continuing this for the time being, unless anyone else wants to do more work on reports [19:49] but money is sent to pleia2, and $0.40 fee covered by the xubuntu team ;) [19:49] :) [19:49] pleia2: +1 [19:49] thanks [19:49] thanks for doing that [19:49] yeah, thanks [19:50] we should probably mention it in the processes page that the one adding the meeting minutes should also update the team updates page. [19:50] and if it's the first meeting of the month, cycle the monthly pages [19:50] #topic Use a common area for detailed discussions notes such as Trello [19:51] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/U/Trello%20Communication [19:51] elfy, [19:51] I tended to ignore it. :/ [19:51] Unit193, wait, when did you add the meeting minutes? ;) [19:51] I felt it useful [19:51] * GridCube leaves [19:52] if it's valuable to folks, I think trello is lovely to use, but I have my own todo lists so "update trello" tends to land there :) [19:52] ok - so I was just thinking about us communicating a bit better - I spent a lot of time last cycle - going over the same ground - I really don't want to do that again [19:52] besides, that link is bogus [19:52] and elfy and I did use it quite a lot in -qa [19:52] yeah, trello is very good to use [19:52] and it worked for those of -qa that did use it [19:52] elfy, you should harrass everyone with !team [19:52] :D [19:52] elfy, is it about communication about "what do we need to do (generally)" ? [19:52] why? [19:53] elfy, or specific action items people need to take? [19:53] even for managing progress, i'd actually prefer it to the clunky blueprints on launchpad (if it were integrated in launchpad) [19:53] the positive side to LP is the good status page. [19:53] it's more general - there's not anywhere other than blueprints to actually write anything - and that would soon be a nightmare [19:54] ochosi: Nah, if it were on LP, it'd be far slower. [19:54] elfy, want to expand the spec for next week? [19:54] Unit193: hehe, yeah, there we go :p [19:54] elfy, eg. briefly cover what we would use it for, and maybe some action screenshots [19:54] ok [19:54] cheers [19:54] cool [19:55] but if we don't do that - we do need to do something [19:55] #action elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow [19:55] ACTION: elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow [19:55] elfy, yep, anything that works for the team :) [19:55] trellolo [19:55] okay, and now the item you have all been waiting for [19:55] #topic Project future: New project lead, council, or something else? [19:55] incecream? [19:55] wb Unit193 ;) [19:56] Unit193: feeling so nervous..? [19:56] too late - we voted Unit193 in :p [19:56] you have just voted the next XPL [19:56] yep [19:56] too bad :| [19:56] joking aside... [19:56] lol [19:56] i think we should organize a call for XPL nominations [19:56] the decison was taken long ago in the backstages [19:56] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members [19:57] there's a specific reason why i say this... [19:57] knome: and how long will we wait for that [19:57] i'll do the call at latest on monday [19:57] now that our team is more than 4 people, I think we could actually support a small council if we wanted to go that route [19:57] then some time to gather nominations [19:57] * knome refrains from disclosing the reason [19:57] ...but other people can. [19:57] * elfy thinks we should have called earlier [19:58] elfy, would have been madness to do that during the release [19:58] +1 [19:58] it has always gone like this [19:58] elfy: knome is still here ;) [19:58] yea - I know that :) [19:58] so it's his problem if there's no new xpl, he'll just have to stay :D [19:58] time machines ftw [19:58] hah [19:58] well, if no nominations are sent... [19:59] then we will have to investigate other options [19:59] * pleia2 nods [19:59] after loooong consideration and discussions... [19:59] but as pleia2 said... yes, we could sustain a council [19:59] i've started to consider applying for the terrible terrible burden that knome has been carrying for us [20:00] :) [20:00] :D [20:00] Well that could solve that. [20:00] there were a few subsequent discussions with bluesabre [20:00] (who unfortunately left the meeting as it seems) [20:01] so anyway, we can talk about that when he's around again i guess [20:01] yeah [20:01] anyway... i would very much like to see a "single" XPL instead of council [20:01] hey bluesabre-tmp! [20:01] oh, speak of the devil [20:01] I would prefer to see a single one as well if we can [20:02] knome: me too! [20:02] i would also say that we need to lessen the burden [20:02] yes, ok, so now that bluesabre-tmp is around again [20:02] ok, what did I miss? [20:02] if at all possible [20:02] bluesabre-tmp, you're the new XPL [20:02] bluesabre-tmp, just voted on that [20:02] haha [20:02] bluesabre-tmp: i can pastebin you the backlog [20:02] O.o [20:02] or you can check the online-log [20:02] ochosi propsed you and we all agreed [20:03] ochosi: sure, trying to navigate as little as possible since I'm testhering on my phone [20:03] *proposed [20:04] seriously though, knome will do call for nominations by monday [20:04] knome: so how will we lessen the burden? [20:04] pasted to bluesabre-tmp's PM [20:04] so basically, [20:04] well that's one of the things to do imo ^ [20:04] we need to rethink "who" is it who does all the heavy lifting [20:04] to me, it feels natural that the -release team had a bit more responsbility, but also power [20:04] yes, i will. [20:04] release team could take some of the paperwork [20:04] that is, filing exception bugs [20:05] i've been cooperating a lot in -release, and have been happy to see elfy do that as well [20:06] they're not too bad in there ;) [20:06] :) [20:06] maybe there could be team members who would make sure the blueprints are up-to-date [20:06] or whatever method we are using [20:06] can't team leads do their blueprints? [20:06] ideally, all people would manage their own work items [20:06] yeah, I could do a much better job of my blueprints [20:06] sure, that works as well if it... works [20:06] yeah, i think it's hard to formalize that process [20:07] i mean we can say, we create a subset of ppl who handle blueprints [20:07] ochosi, since you have been pondering this, is there something else you are afraid of? [20:07] well I'm happy enough to do qa ones [20:07] i don't think it's a bad idea that everybody *can* [20:07] after thinking more about it, not that much [20:07] there's just stuff that you've been doing that i haven't done often (like chairing meetings) [20:07] if a work item is assigned to [user], user should make sure it's updated [20:07] and you're irc-ier than me [20:08] for chairing meetings, i'd really love to see a rotating chair or something [20:08] yeah... [20:08] would be cool [20:08] * elfy hates driving the bot [20:08] :) [20:08] i guess nobody likes it [20:08] i assume that too [20:08] it drives on the wrong side of the road :p [20:08] I'm usually not able to make it to these mettings [20:08] *meetings [20:09] bluesabre-tmp, then we should reschedule [20:09] I tend to miss the beginning. [20:09] i've no problem with varying meeting times [20:09] we can even let the chair mostly decide the time. [20:09] yeah [20:09] we can have them cycle around a bit [20:09] well take all team leaders, or team members [20:09] to make sure all team members can attend once a month at least [20:09] hm, this sounds like a good idea [20:09] cycle through them evenly [20:09] when it's your turn, schedule how you wish [20:10] and others will, or won't, be available [20:10] mmm not sure about that [20:10] makes chairing more comfortable [20:10] it's not a huge issue that everybody is not being able to make it [20:10] we have the meeting minutes [20:10] and we have the mailing list [20:10] is there any channel where one could do some sort of testdrives knome? [20:10] yeah, and ppl are around anyway [20:10] slickymaster, #meetingology [20:10] ok [20:10] elfy, express your concerns :) [20:11] * elfy test drives the bot in FC meetings sometimes [20:11] hang on - just getting the words right :) [20:11] I'd worry about meetings at that point end up being empty - nothing would get done [20:12] in time [20:12] well, [20:12] it'd be good practice to make sure at least somebody is able to make it ;) [20:12] how about a straw poll with a doodle poll of general times [20:12] we've done that too many times IMO [20:12] any time always seems to be perfect [20:12] then when we start running the meetings at that time, people can't come [20:13] which is one of the reason why i think a "moving target" could work just as well... [20:13] +1 [20:13] second thought - a -team mailing list - at least then we'd be able to have targetted discussions [20:13] +1 [20:13] elfy, i could +1 that [20:13] I like that idea [20:13] would *only* team members be allowed to send? [20:13] yep [20:14] like a 'council' list [20:14] because if not, soon it would become xubuntu-dev-team-please-include-libreoffice [20:14] huhu [20:14] exactly [20:14] hah [20:14] what do others think? [20:14] pleia2, i know you're opposed to redundant infrastructure, so i want your opinion [20:14] then at that point - we'd have 'votes' on issues that can be taken to meetings whatever time they are [20:14] we can give it a try [20:15] or [20:15] #action knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list [20:15] ACTION: knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list [20:16] elfy, yeah? [20:16] if we do go to something like trello - we could make that private [20:16] well, that's a bit meh [20:16] or maybe not [20:16] trello does do emails notifications [20:16] yea [20:16] bluesabre-tmp, yeah, but is it about all changes? [20:16] i don't want dumb diffs :( [20:17] i want well-written, thought out mails [20:17] it's "hey, you've missed 4 updates!" [20:17] knome: that [20:17] theoretically elfy's idea has potential [20:17] I know because ochosi keep updating a trello that I should be contributing to [20:17] bluesabre-tmp, yeah, that's just email "crap" [20:17] even if it was about meaningful things [20:17] I'd be inclined to m/l rather than trello for team stuff though [20:17] another idea is [20:18] add some moderators and take out the whip at -devel mailing list [20:18] * Unit193 would be a bad choice. [20:18] don't like that idea [20:18] we can make people's mails autoadded to moderation queue by email address [20:18] i think we need to do $something for the -devel list nonetheless [20:18] especially if we create a -team mailing list [20:19] because at that point, -devel could very easily turn into -feature-requests [20:19] i'm still waiting for any input from pleia2 :) [20:19] sorry [20:19] np [20:19] not really - most of the stuff that goes to -devel is general [20:20] ly what it should be - call's etc [20:20] elfy, most of the stuff there now is stuff that could be in -users [20:20] it's not like -devel is overwhelming [20:20] yes, it could perfectley land on xubuntu mailing list [20:20] well, most of the stuff by non-team-members.. [20:20] since release I'd agree [20:21] do we want to design a tag for team communication? [20:21] pleia2, ^ [20:21] pleia2: what we were discussing was a new private m/l for -team [20:21] elfy: yeah [20:21] i know anybody can use that, but... [20:21] might be possible to autosend to moderation queue if it's not from team member emails [20:21] so launchpad makes it very easy for us to create a private list there [20:21] knome: well - I did for a while mail the list with [TEAM] in the subject [20:22] pleia2, launchpad lists are meh. [20:22] holy crap, there is a scorpion in our appartment (no kidding!) [20:22] got a couple of replies [20:22] bbabl [20:22] good lord [20:22] knome: I don't know that we'd need it for a lot anyway :) mostly we just talk here tbh [20:22] pleia2, i'd just make IS create another [20:22] ochosi is not going to make it [20:22] well, related to this [20:22] it was brought up by lionel (mrpouit) that it's getting harder and harder for him to follow/help with development since he's now a lot less in IRC [20:22] Uhh. I'm still stuck at where he said "scorpion"... [20:23] so i think we are being (partly unconsciously) in exclusive [20:23] -in [20:24] pleia2, send meeting minutes there? [20:24] pleia2, run votes there [20:24] sure [20:24] let's do a quick, non-finally-decisive vote [20:24] knome: [20:24] yes hello is this a meeting thing [20:25] to get a general idea what people think [20:25] Logan_, yes, very much [20:25] elfy, [20:25] if we went to -team m/l we could have -release team as the moderators [20:25] hey Logan_ :) [20:25] oh yeah, knome, my -release is about to expire, and it said to message you [20:25] or something - so it's not just another XPL task [20:25] elfy, yes, though we wouldn't need much [20:25] bluesabre-tmp: he knows :) [20:25] bluesabre-tmp, yep, just a sec [20:26] :) [20:26] knome: nope - just when people move in and out of -team [20:26] but yea a quick vote wfm [20:26] #vote Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts) [20:26] Please vote on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts) [20:26] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [20:26] +1 [20:26] +1 received from knome [20:26] +1 [20:26] +1 received from elfy [20:26] +1 [20:26] +1 received from bluesabre-tmp [20:27] +1 [20:27] +1 received from slickymaster [20:27] +0 [20:27] +0 received from pleia2 [20:28] bluesabre-tmp, elfy: i've extended you for a month in -release, until we get a new XPL/council/something [20:28] knome: thanks [20:28] bluesabre-tmp, elfy: let's reassess the situation at that point [20:28] ok - ta [20:28] other team members? [20:29] #action knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list [20:29] ACTION: knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list [20:29] #endvote [20:29] Voting ended on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts) [20:29] Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 [20:29] Motion carried [20:29] ok, finally.. [20:29] #subtopic Team leaders [20:29] ochosi, pleia2, elfy: you fine to continue with your leader hats? :) [20:30] yep [20:30] * knome bows to elfy [20:30] sure [20:30] as long as people are ok with it of course [20:30] * knome bows to pleia2 [20:30] knome: we should chat re: website at some point though, if you are no xpl, you may want that hat :) [20:30] i don't think we are generally voting about (non-project) team leads [20:30] pleia2, we can [20:30] i don't want anything in 6 months [20:31] but i'm by tentatively open for stuff after that [20:31] I'd be willing to apply for technical lead, not sure if others are currently interested [20:31] mhm, [20:32] i would approve that direction [20:32] having a technical lead that's around would also help with the XPL burden [20:33] * pleia2 nods [20:33] bluesabre-tmp: Get uploader rights. ;) [20:33] i'm all open for other nomiations as well, but i'd say it's a big pro if you are actually around. [20:33] Unit193: yeah, thats the next step [20:34] #action New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead [20:34] ACTION: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead [20:34] hmpf. [20:34] #undo [20:34] Removing item from minutes: ACTION [20:34] #action new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead [20:34] ACTION: new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead [20:34] #nick new-xpl [20:35] #topic Other issues [20:35] anything else? [20:35] yeah, i think we are done and all exhausted :) [20:36] #topic Next meeting [20:36] now't from me for sure [20:36] in 5 minutes [20:36] :> [20:36] hah [20:36] I'm gone next week [20:36] i might be away @may 1 too [20:36] is *monday* a bad day for people? [20:37] that is, may 5 [20:37] I'll be away between april 30th and may 5th [20:37] fine for me [20:37] slickymaster, including 5, or not? [20:37] good for e [20:37] I'm gone then too :) [20:37] cinco de mayo [20:37] excluding knome [20:37] mhm [20:37] well what about tuseday may 6? [20:37] workday the 5th [20:37] pleia2, better? :P [20:38] nope [20:38] I'm back on wednesday :D [20:38] hah [20:38] let's do email stuff then [20:38] and have a meeting on thursday [20:38] the regular time [20:38] k [20:39] #info Next meeting: May 8, 19 UTC [20:39] let's hope we have XPL submission mostly in by that [20:39] can not quite be, because need 2 weeks [20:39] (iirc) [20:39] anyway, thanks! [20:39] #endmeeting [20:39] Meeting ended Thu Apr 24 20:39:38 2014 UTC. [20:39] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-24-19.00.moin.txt [20:39] bbl [20:39] thanks knome [20:39] thanks knome [20:39] thanks knome [20:39] Well if the scorpion didn't get him... [20:39] later everyone [20:39] * knome encore-bows [20:39] Unit193, :| [20:39] thanks knome [20:39] --> [20:40] finally dinner [20:40] bbl -> [20:44] re [20:44] ochosi: safely back I hope :) [20:44] yeah, caught the scorpio and escorted him out [20:45] gf is still in a bit of a shock [20:45] I bet :) [20:45] but we can laugh again already [20:45] ha ha ha [20:46] will post a photo later [20:46] phew, the future of the project is safe again [20:46] :) [20:47] lol [20:47] xubuntu has a "bitten by a scorpion" factor of 1 :\ [20:48] :} [20:48] actually he was tiny, about 3-4cm long [20:48] but still, if you've never seen one... [20:48] in your bathroom! [20:48] I hear the smaller ones more dangerous :) [20:49] will take this to #xubuntu-scorpions now [20:49] (a channel for music and animal lovers) [20:49] ++ [20:49] lol [20:49] was thinking about that [20:50] meeting minutes are up [20:50] ty [21:37] slickymaster, around? [21:40] Xubuntu/Leaders updated [21:40] ochosi, your TZ as well [21:42] knome: the TZ is the same though [21:42] yeah ;) [21:42] and it'll change again in less time than lies behind us when it wasn't correct :) [21:43] maybe we should just stick to UTC+bleh timezones. [21:43] which would be more useful anyway [21:43] yeah [21:43] feel free to do that change if you please [21:47] knome, I am now [21:48] slickymaster, you're listed in Xubunut/Leaders now. [21:58] ok knome, thanks [22:15] "it's out": https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-April/010087.html [22:20] updated leaders/tz [22:21] is that what you had in mind, knome ^ ? [22:22] that looks good [22:22] though DST is meh [22:22] ;) [22:22] just saying... [22:22] yeah, not really my fault :) [22:23] yep [22:25] am i the only one who thinks it's a bit odd that previous leaders start from oldest to newest? [22:25] you can switch that if you wish [22:25] i don't think it matters much [22:25] yeah, probably not [22:25] just took me a while to figure out what the sorting was [22:27] more mail @ -devel [22:29] ochosi, re: sort order, i think it made most sense if it was ordered by "from" time [22:29] but when did lionel begin his tech lead journey? [22:33] yeah, well, let's just leave it for now [22:33] it really isn't as important, as you correctly said [22:49] this is actually a bit sucky: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1306917 [22:49] Launchpad bug 1306917 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker: screen always automatically locked" [Undecided,Confirmed] [22:49] seems it's just a small fluke in one of our config files though [22:50] or: lls not reading it correctly [22:59] ochosi: so you want to reward people for fixing the annoying post release bugs instead of fixing them yourself? :D [22:59] brainwash_: could be a nice way of getting more/new ppl involved [22:59] we could use crypto currency for this purpose [22:59] >__< [22:59] nobody can ever do/fix everything themselves [22:59] i'll disapprove that. [23:00] you don't like dogecoin and co? :( [23:01] if they didn't drag so many people who are completely lost, they could be tolerable [23:08] a nice overview with different stats about current bugs could help, something like a top list to encourage users to fix the most annoying bugs [23:11] anyway, this doesn't have to be restricted to bugs, it can be about features too [23:11] yes [23:12] this would emphasize the value of xubuntu being a community project [23:14] i'm not sure how the fact that we pay to contributors, in a way or another, emphasizes the community aspect? [23:15] the nice overview will [23:16] right... [23:16] don't we have those on a blueprint already? [23:16] paying people won't work anyway [23:17] blueprints are ugly [23:19] mmh, paying people could work nicely... if paid by the community [23:19] like donating [23:21] now we only need to pay someone to implement and maintain such a system :) [23:22] i think that we can look to elementary and see how they handle it [23:23] it shouldn't be too hard to set that up, and i would like if it pulled the core data from LP [23:29] yeah [23:30] again, as with other stuff, if people think it's useful... [23:30] ...i can have a look at it [23:59] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10846 [23:59] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10846 in Window Buttons "Grouped icons sometimes are wrongly rendered as a mini-icon" [Minor,New]