[16:09] <teward|pc> do LP builders for utopic exist yet?
[16:11] <teward|pc> s/LP builders/PPA builders/
[16:51] <tsimpson> teward|pc: yes, going off the table on the right of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[16:52] <teward|pc> tsimpson: didn't know that page existed, thanks.
[17:11] <teward|pc> are the PPA publishers lagged out?  It's been sitting in a built-but-not-published state for about 15 minutes now...
[17:59] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[17:59] <_Groo_> ppl, im having trouble compiling a big package in a ppa
[17:59] <_Groo_> although its the only package in the newly created ppa, after the compilation i get a failed build with the "not enough space on device" message
[17:59] <_Groo_> is there a workaround for this?
[18:00] <_Groo_> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/173957808/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.llvm-toolchain-snapshot_1%3A3.5~svn207246-3~padoka4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:01] <maxb> _Groo_: You're exceeding the available disk space on the builder machine, rather than the space in the PPA
[18:04] <_Groo_> hi maxb,is it possible to extend that disk space? llvm doesnt finish to compile because the amd64 build is aparently too big
[18:04] <_Groo_> and since im compiling the entire graphics stack (mesa, etc etc) i need the new llvm to be able to compile mesa git
[18:04] <_Groo_> so im stuck :P
[18:05] <maxb> I suppose you could talk to someone in Canonical and ask, but it strikes me as unlikely that they'll be able to increase the temporary disk space across the PPA build farm very quickly, if at all
[18:05] <maxb> Your build must be generating an insane amount of temporary files, is all I can think
[18:05] <_Groo_> so this cant be done for just one ppa? its a global limit then?
[18:06] <tsimpson> you could always try asking on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[18:06] <_Groo_> yeah its llvm + clang + lldb +polly
[18:06] <_Groo_> its an insane build allright
[18:06] <_Groo_> more of a nightmare
[18:06] <_Groo_> im gonna try spliting the package in half
[18:06] <_Groo_> llvm + clang then lldb + polly
[18:07] <_Groo_> see if it goes through
[18:07] <_Groo_> the ironic part is that the i386 build finishes, its the amd64 that is giving me trouble
[18:07] <maxb> The limit you're running into is the 'physical' size of the virtual disk of the PPA builder VM
[18:08] <maxb> It's entirely possible that those may not all be the same size, so results may vary depending on which builder the build ends up being dispatched to
[18:08] <_Groo_> its a 4 hour compile
[18:09] <_Groo_> i cant just keep asking for a rebuild and hope for the best :D
[18:09] <maxb> wgrant seems like a likely person to tell us more details, if he's around :-)
[18:10] <maxb> Ouch, that's beyond my comprehension. Surely that can sensibly be broken up a bit?
[18:10] <_Groo_> its the llvm stack
[18:10] <maxb> Which would in turn give advantages of not having to rebuild all of it for certain kinds of change
[18:10] <_Groo_> my idea was to make a recipe eventually with a weely build
[18:10] <_Groo_> +mesa + lopen source drivers + libdrm
[18:10] <_Groo_> weekly
[18:11] <_Groo_> llvm needs to be compiled with the right ducks aligned
[18:11] <_Groo_> if you are compiling llvm git you need clang git at least
[18:11] <_Groo_> its most likely the most complex package i ever did
[18:12] <_Groo_> the rules file looks like black voodoo magic
[18:43] <_Groo_> lamont: ping
[19:20] <lfaraone> Can I get https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/debian/sid/pithos/sid changed to an import of https://alioth.debian.org/scm/loggerhead/collab-maint/pithos , or is that not supported?
[19:23] <maxb> lfaraone: That would confuse things, as the UDD importer wants a branch it can write imported uploads to
[19:23] <lfaraone> maxb: ah, okay. hm :/
[19:27] <lfaraone> maxb: can I create a code import with a LP branch of lp:~lfaraone/debian/sid/pithos/foobar or something? https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new won't let me specify "debian" as a project
[19:28] <maxb> Oh, hmm, right
[19:29] <maxb> I imagine that's just the UI being deficient
[19:31] <maxb> I suspect you'd need to create the import on a project, and then retarget it to the debian/sid/pithos source_package
[19:33] <maxb> I created https://code.launchpad.net/~maxb/pithos/alioth ....
[19:35] <maxb> ... and moved it to https://code.launchpad.net/~maxb/debian/sid/pithos/alioth using the LP API
[19:36] <maxb> That was by entering this in lp-shell: lp.load("/~maxb/pithos/alioth").setTarget(source_package=lp.load("/debian/sid/+source/pithos"))
[19:37] <maxb> lfaraone: I have no way to gift you ownership of the branch, but if you're interested, I'll delete it and you can retrace my footsteps yourself
[19:38] <lfaraone> haha. Can you transfer that to, say, the ~contributor-agreement-canonical team and I can then transfer it to ~lfaraone?
[19:39] <lfaraone> (I was looking for a team that had somewhat restricted membership that we had mutual membership in)
[19:39] <maxb> Now at: https://code.launchpad.net/~contributor-agreement-canonical/debian/sid/pithos/alioth
[19:40] <lfaraone> Ty, now https://code.launchpad.net/~debiandevelopers/debian/sid/pithos/alioth
[19:40] <maxb> Import still hasn't started
[19:41]  * maxb exploits some minor URL hacking to push the invisible "Import ASAP really" button
[19:41] <maxb> And here it goes
[19:42] <maxb> Oh, and it's done already :-)
[19:43] <lfaraone> its a small repo :)
[19:44] <lfaraone> thanks!
[22:22] <comradekingu> why is "romany" listed as a language in Norway, it isnt
[22:39] <cjwatson> I don't know the history here (maybe it's a bug), but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_and_Swedish_Travellers would appear to disagree
[22:41] <cjwatson> http://www.regjeringen.no/Rpub/STM/20002001/015/PDFA/STM200020010015000DDDPDFA.pdf appears to be a government publication and mentions "romanifolket"
[22:42] <knome> is it an official language? no, most probably not. is it used in norway? most definitely.
[22:42] <comradekingu> cjwatson: their presence is not officially acknowledged. Illegal russian immigrants far outnumber the romanis
[22:43] <cjwatson> That's none of Launchpad's business
[22:43] <comradekingu> Well you should add russian
[22:43] <comradekingu> Finnish, swedish, danish etc etc
[22:44] <comradekingu> I would add the 3 official languages missing, namely the lapmi languages
[22:44] <cjwatson> I'm not even sure where this is shown; I'd expect this to be up to the translator communities though
[22:44] <cjwatson> Ah, https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/rom
[22:46] <comradekingu> That guy has an account with one translation, and doesnt even know where romanis hail to
[22:47] <wgrant> Does it matter?
[22:47] <comradekingu> Yes it does
[22:47] <wgrant> Most of this data was automatically imported a decade ago.
[22:47] <wgrant> I don't quite know from where.
[22:47] <wgrant> But why does it matter?
[22:47] <cjwatson> I wonder what it's used for in LP today
[22:48] <knome> if somebody with LP admin rights could look at bug 1305585, would appreciate :)
[22:48] <cjwatson> If not much, it might be more geopolitically sensible to just delete that whole class of data altogether
[22:48] <wgrant> knome: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[22:48] <wgrant> Also, you can delete teams yourself.
[22:49] <wgrant> and you'll need to delete that user yourself.
[22:49] <wgrant> But I can do the project if you do the question thing.
[22:49] <knome> right
[22:49] <knome> i'll do that in a minute
[22:49] <comradekingu> If you havent selected it, it suggests to use new-norwegian as a guide, when clicked it produces a list of languages spoken in norway
[22:49] <wgrant> When what is clicked?
[22:50] <knome> wgrant, question 247791
[22:51] <comradekingu> wgrant: the prompt to use other languages as a guide
[22:51] <wgrant> comradekingu: Can you describe exactly how to reproduce the undesirable behaviour that you see as arising from the arguably erroneous link?
[22:51] <knome> wgrant, how can we delete the user if we don't even know the email address used to register it?
[22:51] <wgrant> URLs, unexpected behaviour, expected behaviour.
[22:51] <comradekingu> Since ive already have norwegian bokmål set up, it suggests norwegian nynorsk and others
[22:51] <comradekingu> Of which romani should not be a listing
[22:52] <comradekingu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom_people
[22:52] <wgrant> knome: It's a gaweb.com address.
[22:52] <wgrant> Er, gawab.com
[22:52] <knome> wgrant, i have no access to any...
[22:52] <knome> wgrant, is there any process we can get it removed without access to such an email?
[22:53] <comradekingu> Recognised minority language in: czech republic. Nowhere else
[22:53] <cjwatson> It would be very dangerous for LP to start getting into the business of authenticating minority language status
[22:54] <cjwatson> It is of course hardly surprising that an oppressed group does not have recognised minority language status in many places
[22:54] <knome> well otoh, if they seem to be in the system, isn't it dangerous to specifically delete those?
[22:54] <cjwatson> Better not to be part of it at all, and delete *all* language/country associations, IMO
[22:54] <cjwatson> I find it pretty tenuous that Launchpad needs to model that
[22:55] <cjwatson> It's not like people need to have it suggested to them which languages they might be able to translate into
[22:57] <comradekingu> There are 300-400 rom in Norway with norwegian ID papers
[22:57] <wgrant> knome: Not exactly. Is the user causing a problem?
[22:57] <comradekingu> wgrant: the user is innacurately inputting language data
[22:58] <cjwatson> And it leads to nonsense like https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/en which is probably imported from the glibc SUPPORTED file but is obviously a thoroughly incomplete record of where English is spoken
[22:58] <cjwatson> comradekingu: perhaps you should be aware that there are two parallel conversations going on here
[22:58] <comradekingu> Well well, feel free to ask questions if you want to know something about norwegian culture or history
[22:59] <knome> wgrant, not exactly problems, and the name is misleading; we're also potentially setting up something similar and would not like that to cause confusion
[22:59] <cjwatson> That is, you're replying to wgrant asking a question about a *completely different user* which has nothing to do with your conversation
[23:00] <knome> wgrant, s/and/but/
[23:06] <knome> wgrant, apparently there is no mail service in gawab.com altogether now, but the domain is still parked/owned, so would be nearly impossible to recover that inbox even for the original account creator
[23:07] <wgrant> Indeed, I can't even contact the domain's DNS servers.
[23:07]  * wgrant murders.
[23:08] <wgrant> knome: It's gone.
[23:09] <knome> wgrant, thanks!
[23:11] <infinity> comradekingu: So, as cjwatson says, it might be best for Launchpad to stop mapping languages and countries altogether.  But one is curious how this mapping is negatively impacting you as a human.
[23:12] <comradekingu> infinity: It is giving creedence to a culturual and historical aspect that is totally wrong
[23:13] <infinity> comradekingu: It's doing no such thing.  It's saying that some people in that geographical region speak that language.
[23:13] <infinity> comradekingu: That this (true) statement upsets you is, frankly, your issue.
[23:13] <comradekingu> Romani doesnt have official languagage status because its users are oppressed, its because it isnt an official language
[23:13] <infinity> comradekingu: That isn't a list of official languages.
[23:14] <infinity> comradekingu: The USA has exactly zero official languages (yes, really, though most assume it has at least one), but LP maps dozens to the region.
[23:14] <comradekingu> How is that even comparable?
[23:15] <comradekingu> infinity: Following the logic of romani being spoken in norway, Norwegian should be added to any number of countries
[23:15] <cjwatson> I think that would be fine, although I think it would be better to remove the entire class of data
[23:16] <comradekingu> The romani class, sure. It has 1 translation and a bunch of made up data
[23:17] <cjwatson> I mean the entire language<->country mapping.
[23:17] <cjwatson> I'm not going to victimise a language because you have a problem with it
[23:18] <comradekingu> 0.00007% of Norway speaks romani
[23:18] <knome> comradekingu, ignore it and move on
[23:19] <comradekingu> cjwatson: that is a strawman attack, i dont have any problems with the language, i have a problem with it being represented as one of only a handful languages spoken in Norway
[23:20] <comradekingu> Moreso, if you care about factual representation, the two countries where romani actually is spoken, missing on the list
[23:20] <wgrant> The dataset is incomplete, and the whole country<->language mapping should possibly be removed.
[23:20] <cjwatson> Then you should support removing the entire class of language<->country mapping, since maintaining this set of stuff in LP can never really be accurate and isn't a good idea
[23:20] <wgrant> But unless it's causing a technical problem, the linkage between Romani and Norway will not be removed.
[23:21] <cjwatson> Rather than spending your energy on specifically vilifying Romani
[23:21] <comradekingu> No, its of great use to help suggest language guide-strings
[23:21] <wgrant> "It is giving creedence to a culturual and historical aspect that is totally wrong" is not a useful technical argument.
[23:21] <comradekingu> cjwatson: im not vilifying romani, im asking for factual representation. The whole thing is in error, and you seem oblivious to the fact
[23:22] <comradekingu> wgrant: well it isnt an official language by any means, so it was akin to the matter of why is it there in the first place
[23:22] <cjwatson> I'm saying that this sort of data representation is bound to be wrong, and that focusing on a specific well-known oppressed group makes you look distinctly unpleasant.  Maybe you should pick a different one.
[23:23] <comradekingu> cjwatson: No, thats because you think i have a problem with the language or its users.
[23:24] <comradekingu> What i do have a problem with is inaccurate representation.
[23:25] <cjwatson> Yep, you sure appear to when you use statistics like possession of official papers for a group that naturally tends to avoid local registration
[23:25] <comradekingu> If it makes anyone feel better, add all oppressed languages everywhere, but at least do so on an even basis
[23:25] <comradekingu> cjwatson: that isnt true either
[23:25] <cjwatson> I'd have no problem with doing that but I think it's a waste of effort compared with nuking the table
[23:26] <comradekingu> So nuke the table, there was no valid data in it, speaking of course about the romani listing
[23:26] <cjwatson> Not that table, as I've already said.
[23:26] <cjwatson> (This isn't interesting any more)
[23:27] <comradekingu> Well the whole idea has a lot of merit, for reasons mentioned. Allowing junk data to be representated takes away from that point
[23:28] <comradekingu> I suppose adding Norwegian to places where over 0.00007% of people speak the language is welcomed?
[23:30] <comradekingu> Its not so much the idea of languages spoken in regions that is arbritrary, its this actual representation of it, romani being oppressed has nothing to do with it. I more than welcome having the whole section wiped and the two countries where it makes sense added
[23:32] <comradekingu> cjwatson: I said romani has no cultural or historical significance to Norway worthy of a listing because i thought that was the argument to be made, following rational logic, instead you made it about my person.
[23:34] <cjwatson> Right, when you spend energy having a go at an oppressed minority I think you'll find that will happen a lot.
[23:35] <comradekingu> How am i having a go?
[23:35] <comradekingu> That is something you invented about me in its entirety
[23:35] <cjwatson> *shrug*
[23:36] <cjwatson> It's all logged
[23:36] <cjwatson> I assume readers can make their own judgements
[23:37] <teward> can we all just take time to cool down, or drop this, before this turns into a larger argument...?  I see enough arguing on these kinds of things on other channels, so lets not make a huge deal over this please...
[23:37] <teward> (not that I have any power to ENFORCE that, but the point still stands.)
[23:37] <cjwatson> Like I say, I have no problem adding minority languages, although it's not a data set that's particularly easy to change (I don't think there's a UI or API for it, I believe it's direct SQL manipulation only) and so it doesn't seem worth spending time on
[23:38] <comradekingu> I sure hope applying to consensus is something that warrants actual insight rather than made up arguments
[23:38] <cjwatson> Better to not model something inherently controversial at all
[23:38] <cjwatson> There is data there for other language/country combinations that would be controversial and isn't really obviously fixable except by removing the modelling entirely
[23:40] <comradekingu> What exactly is controversial about it if the one suggesting it, me, points to factual evidence, delete it and remake it, possibly send the noncontributing user a message to relist it, or do so on his account
[23:40] <comradekingu> Discriminating the treatment of language because one deems the issue of its speakers to be controversial is at best counter-productive
[23:41] <wgrant> This whole argument is at best counter-productive. We will not be making this change. The discussion is over.
[23:41] <comradekingu> Well, nobody is going to do anything about it, that i respect, its your dataset, just dont blame me for reporting the issue
[23:41] <cjwatson> There are examples in the dataset today where either including or excluding a specific mapping would offend different sets of people (if they noticed, which fortunately they don't usually)
[23:42] <comradekingu> My example isnt one of those. Not doing anything because of it is bound to offend moreso than it fixes
[23:43] <comradekingu> As someone said, lp shouldnt make decisions on what languages are spoken where. Go with the wikipedia data like everyone else.
[23:44] <comradekingu> If all it takes is making one translation to list a language in totally arbritrary locations and not include it where it should be, then lp is effectivly doing what it tries not to. Offend users based on the opinion of small uninformed minorities.
[23:44] <cjwatson> The user listed on +languages/rom almost certainly did not list those countries.
[23:44] <cjwatson> I doubt they would have been able to.
[23:45] <comradekingu> I reported a listing that was in error, if that offends anyone then thats their problem
[23:45] <wgrant> Right, it is your problem, I agree.
[23:46] <cjwatson> I wonder if the data was imported from Ethnologue
[23:47] <cjwatson> Hm, no, don't think so
[23:47] <comradekingu> wgrant: im not offended, nor intending to offend. Nor do i think its controversial. That issue wasnt raised by me. I only speak for myself, i dont answer to what is made up about me
[23:51] <comradekingu> wgrant: btw, the data wasnt imported 10 years ago, because the name rom/any isnt that old.