[00:00] <sidi-valencia> may i suggest the codebase should be made tougher rather than the duplication removed? :)
[00:03] <bluesabre> that's the plan
[00:03] <bluesabre> part of it is the different menu implementations
[00:03] <bluesabre> which is why alacarte does not work with xfce any more
[00:04] <bluesabre> menulibre adapts to the different oddities
[00:06] <bluesabre> for example: lxde-settings = "DesktopSettings", gnome-settings = "Preferences", xfce-settings = "Settings"
[00:06] <bluesabre> it seems each gnome-based thing (gnome, unity, cinnamon, possibly pantheon) use "Preferences" in this case
[00:08] <bluesabre> or how "Utility" is always "Accessories"
[00:08] <bluesabre> silly to have a specification that everybody follows differently
[00:26] <bluesabre> I'm fairly confident that I have the fix now knome
[00:28] <knome> just a moment, just a moment
[00:28] <knome> so you want me to take the menu files in the bug
[00:28] <knome> and edit them accordingly
[00:32] <bluesabre> sent you an email
[00:32] <knome> heh, ta
[00:32] <bluesabre> with the details
[00:32] <bluesabre> but yeah, try that too (first)
[00:34]  * knome meh's at some code
[00:34] <knome> give me a few mins more.
[00:34] <bluesabre> take your time
[00:35]  * bluesabre found a bug before it was reported
[00:35] <bluesabre> :D
[00:38]  * amigamagic finally created its first xfce theme graybird based
[00:58] <ochosi> hehe, congrats on that, bluesabre 
[00:58] <ochosi> and night everyone
[00:59] <amigamagic> ochosi, night
[00:59] <amigamagic> tomorrow I will post a screenshot of my modded greybird theme
[01:03] <knome> bluesabre, actually, i think i need to look at the bug tomorrow. sorry
[01:03] <knome> 4am...
[01:03] <knome> bluesabre, besides, how am i supposed to try to reproduce?
[01:03] <knome> i couldn't do that the first time either ;)
[01:04] <bluesabre> oh
[01:04] <bluesabre> not sure
[01:04] <bluesabre> you pulled it off somehow
[01:04] <bluesabre> :)
[01:04] <knome> hah
[01:04] <knome> did you notice that bug was not mine?
[01:04] <bluesabre> yes
[01:04] <bluesabre> but I think it is related
[01:05] <bluesabre> since the file you sent me has the same issue
[01:05] <knome> aha
[01:05] <bluesabre> in a way, that bug is the explanation of the bug you reported ;)
[01:05] <knome> aha, so a dupe? :P
[01:06] <knome> but yeah, the hard part is that i *really* don't know how to reproduce...
[01:07] <knome> and thus, in a way, no way to verify the bug is gone...
[01:08] <knome> it probably has something to do with me trying to get a launcher show in "other" under settings manager and not somewhere else
[01:18] <deddokatana> OK
[01:18] <deddokatana> us there a dev in?
[01:18] <sidi-valencia> Hello?
[01:19] <deddokatana> where can i file a beta test report for xubuntu desktop utopic
[01:19] <knome> you can't.
[01:19]  * sidi-valencia was gonna ping knome 
[01:19] <knome> sidi-valencia, for what?
[01:19] <deddokatana> :D ive successfully debootstraped it from the ubuntu repo
[01:19] <sidi-valencia> ^
[01:20] <deddokatana> just a webcam issue, (i think something was forgotten from the xubuntu-desktop metapackage)
[01:20] <knome> deddokatana, be helpful and run tests later in the cycle when we ask you to
[01:21] <Logan_> Unit193: would you consider forwarding that to the Debian maintainer?
[01:23] <deddokatana> i would, but the proper package is unknown, but i suggest uvccapture
[01:23] <deddokatana> maybe is should be in the reccomended for cheese
[01:24] <deddokatana> knome, my twitter is @deddokatana, please contact me to book a vnc / shh / script test session
[01:25] <deddokatana> i look forward to learning a few tricks
[01:26] <knome> deddokatana, just join the ~xubuntu-testers launchpad team and you'll get the calls for testing to your inbox
[01:41] <Logan_> Unit193: also, looks like we can sync irker now :)
[01:41] <Unit193> Yep, sure can.
[01:41] <Unit193> (To the second.)
[01:48] <Unit193> Logan_: I'll, uh, try and think about forwarding the darkice update back.  Just contacted the alpine guy.
[01:51] <Logan_> ok
[01:56] <deddokatana> where would i file an underpowered usb hub to? possible kernel module bug. there was only one device plugged into the hub.
[01:56] <knome> don't file any bugs against utopic
[01:57] <deddokatana> cause right now it appears to be a duplicate of trusty?
[01:58] <knome> appears or not, it's not trusty
[01:59] <deddokatana> that just boosted my bragging rights amongst my freinds..
[02:00] <deddokatana> ok, im going to see if anyone needs help in community support
[02:18] <pleia2> ok, updated http://xubuntu.org/press/
[02:19] <knome> goodie
[02:21] <deddokatana> buttery smooth but one mainline kernel may be responsible for 2 of my nuked hard disk.. that or stirring up shit about banks.
[02:21] <deddokatana> ok heading to off topic
[06:17] <Unit193> Logan_: Woah, the alpine maintainer was amazingly receptive.
[06:18] <jhenke> good morning
[06:18] <Unit193> Howdy.
[06:23] <ochosi> morning
[06:23] <elfy> morning ochosi 
[06:24] <elfy> ochosi: was reading scrollback in -offtopic - you said to someone - only install xfpm from the PPA - when I tried to do that it wouldn't let me - had to upgrade lightlocker as well
[06:24] <elfy> is that something that shouldn't have happened?
[06:26] <elfy> might be why it didn't work for me :)
[06:26] <elfy> s/install/upgrade
[06:30] <ochosi> well, at least it was unncessary
[06:30] <ochosi> why could you not only upgrade xfpm?
[06:31] <ochosi> after adding the PPA, run "sudo apt-get update && sudo aÃpt-get install xfce4-power-manager"
[06:31] <elfy> well I didn't install - I upgraded ... 
[06:31] <ochosi> yeah
[06:31] <elfy> I'll have another go later with installing it 
[06:31] <ochosi> but the install command upgrades too
[06:31] <ochosi> if there's a newer version
[06:31] <elfy> yea 
[06:32] <elfy> however, if it does work with that xpfm - then there's something dodgy going on with that lightlocker I guess :p
[06:32] <elfy> shall report back this afternoon 
[06:32] <ochosi> well the hidden cursor issue is likely unrelated to light-locker
[06:32] <ochosi> so forget about that package for now
[06:41] <elfy> I don't get hidden cursor 
[06:41] <elfy> or did once 
[06:42] <ochosi> never got that one myself
[06:42] <elfy> by once I actually mean 1 time
[06:43] <Unit193> Oh, so the terrible oh-no,-screen-won't-come-back-from-suspend seems to only be on lid close, I use the other suspend and it's always fine.
[06:43] <Unit193> Oh duh, nevermind. >_<
[06:43] <elfy> lol - catch up :p
[06:45] <ochosi> Unit193: any idea where the package glade-xfce went?
[06:45] <Unit193> (No, I forgot I didn't count, I use systemd)
[06:45] <ochosi> used to be around in raring, but not anymore
[06:46] <Unit193> !info libxfcegui4-4
[06:47] <Unit193> drop glade-xfce package, now provided by libxfce4ui.
[06:48] <ochosi> right, i read that
[06:48] <ochosi> but somehow glade-gtk2 still complains about not finding the catalog
[06:48] <ochosi> so maybe something is messed up there
[06:49] <Unit193> Whoops, missed one important one:   * debian/libxfcegui4-4.install:
[06:49] <Unit193>     - stop installing glade files since they are gone.
[06:50] <ochosi> meh
[06:50] <ochosi> they're still useful though
[06:50] <ochosi> just installed the raring package for testing purposes, but now glade-gtk2 segfaults \o/
[06:53] <Unit193> Checking logs.
[06:56] <Unit193> ochosi: How badly do you need them and for what?
[06:57] <ochosi> for being able to modify xfce dialogs with glade
[06:57] <ochosi> those that use xfcetitleddialog
[09:25] <Unit193> ochosi: You can try out the glade-xfce package I have here, but not sure if it'll work.
[09:28] <ochosi> i'm already on the road to finishing the dialog in mousepad
[09:28] <ochosi> it's tedious, but at least mousepad doesn't randomely crash ;)
[09:28] <ochosi> i'll happily try it when i've finished this here though
[09:45] <Unit193> Cool, grab the deb from ppa:unit193/staging.
[09:46] <bluesabre> I usually just edit the glade to make it GtkDialog
[09:47] <bluesabre> do what I need to do, then change it back
[09:55] <knome> went ahead and added the community council checkup to the team calendar
[09:55] <knome> and the next meeting
[09:58] <ochosi> bluesabre: works fine with gtk3, but with gtk2 i just get segfaults
[09:59] <bluesabre> probably something not linked correctly
[09:59] <bluesabre> I think libxfce4-ui is now libxfce4-ui-1
[09:59] <bluesabre> right?
[09:59] <bluesabre> libxfce4ui is now libxfce4ui-1
[10:00] <bluesabre> (just a guess, probably wrong)
[10:04] <Unit193> 1 is gtk2, 2 is gtk3.
[10:05] <ochosi> yeah
[10:05] <ochosi> but that's only the problem of using xfcetitleddialog
[10:05] <ochosi> i meant: glade-gtk2 just crashes when i create an empty file and try to add a gtkdialog as topÃlevel widget
[10:06] <bluesabre> ah
[10:06] <bluesabre> yeah, that version of glade is crashy as hell
[10:06] <bluesabre> (as are most versions)
[10:06] <ochosi> well, the gtk3 version is *much* better ;)
[10:07] <ochosi> anyway, meanwhile finished revamping the whole xfpm dialog
[10:07] <ochosi> so...
[10:07] <bluesabre> yay!
[10:08] <bluesabre> once knome reports back about that bug being fixed, I can probably do a menulibre release
[10:08] <ochosi> cool
[10:09] <bluesabre> and minor releases on the other projects are coming up too
[10:09] <bluesabre> then I'd like to experiment some more with the display settings and try to get a fancy dialog working
[10:09] <ochosi> sounds cool
[10:10] <ochosi> only thing is that i've only ever seen a fancy dialog in python so far
[10:10] <ochosi> or in c, but >2000 lines heavy
[10:12] <Unit193> Meh, too many deps for glade-gtk2 or I'd try it.
[13:10] <knome> bbl
[15:12] <elfy> !team 
[15:12] <elfy> please check http://pad.ubuntu.com/5opi9dQG5e 
[15:13] <elfy> that is how I'm planning to call for testing this cycle - dates are there - leaves all the milestone dates free
[15:13] <elfy> leaves us a big gap at the end that we can call for specific things as required
[15:14] <elfy> I'll leave the pad now - please use that for comments if any - I'll be sorting this all out early next week. 
[15:14] <elfy> thanks :)
[15:15] <elfy> at that point I will be building the new testsuites and won't be wanting to fiddle again
[18:42] <knome> elfy, that looks good to me
[19:31] <elfy> knome: yep - did me 
[19:55] <ali1234> elfy: do you still have that VM where you installed ubuntu-desktop^ over xubuntu?
[19:55] <elfy> ali1234: not any more - but I'm happy enough to set one up and keep it hanging about
[19:55] <ali1234> my multimedia keys stopped working after i did that
[19:56] <elfy> oh - I'm not sure I'd be any help with that - no media keys 
[19:58] <ali1234> bug 1314782
[19:59] <elfy> only media keys I've got are vol+/- and mute
[19:59] <ali1234> that will do
[19:59] <elfy> k - I'll set up the xubuntu one now 
[20:00] <ali1234> installing ubuntu-sdk seems to have a lot of really nasty side-effects for us
[20:01] <ali1234> also, has anyone tested if those lock screen bypass bugs affect us?
[20:01] <elfy> no idea - which bug #'s
[20:01] <ali1234> just checking
[20:01] <ali1234> bug 1308572
[20:02] <ali1234> that one probably doesn't but there was a new one that involves indicators
[20:02] <elfy> not seen any references to that one
[20:02] <elfy> ali1234: so what do you want me to do exactly here - install xubuntu then ubuntu-sdk?
[20:03] <ali1234> bug 1313885
[20:03] <elfy> not seen that either
[20:04] <ali1234> elfy: install ubuntu-desktop^ then reboot and test multimedia keys. then if they still work, install ubuntu-sdk and test again
[20:04] <elfy> ok
[20:04] <ali1234> if they still work after that then i'm stumped
[20:04] <elfy> ok
[20:05] <elfy> and the vol key doesn't work in vm anyway ... 
[20:06] <ali1234> hmm
[20:06] <ali1234> oh well :/
[20:07] <brainwash> did the sdk install any gtk modules?
[20:08] <brainwash> bug 1239014 seems to be similar
[20:09] <brainwash> and our lock screen is not affected by those bugs, because it's running in a different vt
[20:11] <ali1234> still? i thought that changed? (i don't ever lock my computer)
[20:11] <brainwash> changed?
[20:11] <brainwash> ah, it's planned to be changed 
[20:15] <elfy> ali1234: seems that multimedia keys are not passed to vbox guest
[20:15] <sidi-valencia> can you check if gnome-settings-daemon is running?
[20:15] <sidi-valencia> or gnome-*-daemon for the matter
[20:16] <ali1234> maybe try while holding the right ctrl (or whatever the passthrough key is)
[20:16] <elfy> ali1234: tried that :(
[20:16] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368694/
[20:17] <ali1234> ps waxf | grep gnome ^
[20:22] <ali1234> sidi-valencia: i don't understand why daemon mode makes a difference... really odd
[20:24] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, will check the code in a minute
[20:24] <brainwash> other Xfce components do the same (time out)
[20:24] <ali1234> ah... i see
[20:24] <brainwash> appfinder, xfsettingd
[20:24] <ali1234> in daemon mode, it never "starts up"?
[20:25] <ali1234> cos it hangs somewhere in the init, any idea why/where?
[20:25] <brainwash> so far it has been caused by the overlay scrollbar gtk module
[20:26] <ali1234> yeah, i remember that bug from last year
[20:26] <ali1234> but did we ever figure out why or fix it?
[20:26] <brainwash> appfinder's daemonize routine has been rewritten upstream to use gdbus instead
[20:26] <ali1234> i will test the workaround from your bug
[20:26] <brainwash> this fixed the problem
[20:26] <sidi-valencia> lookup main.c if curious
[20:26] <sidi-valencia> it forks
[20:26] <sidi-valencia> cleans up its std*
[20:26] <sidi-valencia> nothing special at all
[20:27] <sidi-valencia> so there might be something going on when it forks, maybe another daemon has a time window to steal the keys?
[20:27] <ali1234> brainwash: setting the env var doesn't help. also i don't have overlay scrollbars anywhere. no doubt it is something similar though
[20:27] <ali1234> i'll try stracing it i guess
[20:27] <brainwash> maybe strace it
[20:27] <sidi-valencia> you could maybe write some sort of test with a delayed SIGALRM and only fork when you receive that, see if you can use the keys before the fork
[20:27] <sidi-valencia> but im just going to call your system broken and say you should use one volume daemon at a time ;)
[20:28] <brainwash> xD
[20:28] <ali1234> i am though
[20:28] <ali1234> i killed all others
[20:28] <sidi-valencia> ps aux | grep gnome
[20:28] <sidi-valencia> ps aux | grep pulse
[20:28] <sidi-valencia> ps aux | grep -v sidi
[20:28] <sidi-valencia> :D
[20:28] <ali1234> yes, i run pulseaudio
[20:28] <ali1234> nothing else shows up on that search
[20:28] <sidi-valencia> (it has nothing to do with pulse obviously ;) )
[20:29] <sidi-valencia> hm interesting
[20:29] <ali1234> "volume" only shows things related to gvfs, ie disk volumes
[20:30] <ali1234> i guess i could start removing ubuntu packages until it works again... not sure that's the reason it is broken though
[20:31] <ali1234> right, with strace, the forked child just hangs
[20:32] <ali1234> attached gdb... it's still inside keybinder_init
[20:32] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, can you open main.c and comment out the setsid part?
[20:33] <sidi-valencia> oh
[20:33] <sidi-valencia> hm
[20:33] <ali1234> it is trying to get a lock on something inside glib
[20:34] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368788/
[20:34] <sidi-valencia> bad news
[20:34] <sidi-valencia> this is not code from me
[20:34] <ali1234> well yeah
[20:35] <ali1234> this is an ubuntu bug
[20:35] <sidi-valencia> can you build it with another lib?
[20:35] <sidi-valencia> or a compiled version?
[20:35] <ali1234> what do you mean?
[20:35] <sidi-valencia> its probably a file being locked by a faulty package
[20:35] <sidi-valencia> compiled version -> debugging version
[20:36] <sidi-valencia> sorry me speak bad english
[20:36] <sidi-valencia> :D
[20:36] <ali1234> you mean, build with debug symbols?
[20:36] <sidi-valencia> keybinder is built with glic i think
[20:37] <sidi-valencia> unless its a glib thing
[20:37] <sidi-valencia> trying to figure this out now
[20:38] <sidi-valencia> waaaha. the amount of dependencies this package pulls in
[20:41] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, im surprised you *only* have xvd not working
[20:41] <ali1234> oh plenty of other stuff was broken too
[20:41] <sidi-valencia> stuff hanging?
[20:41] <sidi-valencia> crashing?
[20:41] <ali1234> yes, or crashing with security exceptions
[20:41] <sidi-valencia> and what did you install that could've changed your glib?
[20:42] <ali1234> ubuntu-desktop^ and ubuntu-sdk
[20:42] <ali1234> but nothing could have changed glib
[20:42] <sidi-valencia> what is this ^?
[20:43] <ali1234> it means a package group, not a package called ubuntu-desktop
[20:43] <ali1234> it's about 400mb of packages
[20:43] <ali1234> sdk is about another 200mb
[20:45] <sidi-valencia> ok
[20:45] <sidi-valencia> nothing replaces the glib, 100% sure?
[20:45] <ali1234> of course
[20:49] <brainwash> got a list of files which were installed?
[20:49] <sidi-valencia> the kernel?
[20:49] <sidi-valencia> pthreads?
[20:49] <sidi-valencia> what hangs is a call to pthread_rwlock_rdlock
[20:49] <ali1234> this isn't arch, we don't screw around with different kernels and pthreads implementations :)
[20:50] <ali1234> there is only one of each for all ubuntu
[20:50] <sidi-valencia> ohohohoh
[20:50] <sidi-valencia> though note that it could be a change to cairo, pango, atk....
[20:50] <ali1234> maybe
[20:50] <sidi-valencia> any lib launched by xvd, that has been modified by your packages, could cause this if this lib uses glib
[20:50] <sidi-valencia> or pthread
[20:50] <ali1234> i can't figure out how we are building it without gstreamer support
[20:51] <ali1234> yes, but the point is that no low level libraries can have been modified, because there is only ever one version of each in ubuntu
[20:51] <sidi-valencia> and excuse-me but here on arch there are only 2 kernel, a single pthread implementation and no weird patches coming out of nowhere ;)
[20:52] <ali1234> we have multiple kernels - they are in different packages, so one can never replace another
[20:52] <ali1234> same for everything else really
[20:52] <sidi-valencia> anyway if you tell me theres only one pango, cairo, etc then i've got no reason to not believe you :)
[20:52] <sidi-valencia> it would be weird anyway
[20:52] <ali1234> let me find the package log...
[20:52] <sidi-valencia> yet those packages you pulled apparently cause one of these libs to be affected
[20:53] <sidi-valencia> could we trace what is called in keybinder depending on whether xvd is daemonized?
[20:53] <ali1234> if i can figure out how to rebuild it
[20:53] <sidi-valencia> (also pls try to run it daemonize with setsid() commented out in main.c, i'm a bit curious about this)
[20:53] <sidi-valencia> do you use systemd?
[20:53] <ali1234> no
[20:55] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368880/ <- line 88 is the last time it worked for sure
[20:55] <ali1234> note the long lines
[20:58] <sidi-valencia> you installed ubuntu-desktop and got some systemd and wayland stuff pulled in?? :D
[20:58] <ali1234> i already had wayland stuff installed
[20:59]  * sidi-valencia was trolling but it failed
[20:59] <ali1234> i like systemd
[21:00] <sidi-valencia> ok so im reading up about setsid stuff, maybe maybe changing the process group and session of the process causes the glib to be unhappy? (/me doesnt know what to explore)
[21:00] <sidi-valencia> me too!
[21:00] <ali1234> yeah, that is a distinct possibility
[21:00] <ali1234> would also explain the permissions stuff
[21:00] <sidi-valencia> can you comment out the setsid bit?
[21:00] <ali1234> if i can figure out how to rebuild this thing
[21:00] <ali1234> it keeps complaining about missing libraries
[21:01] <sidi-valencia> well ali1234 i dont really remember why i put that but now that there's cgroups and everything in Linux setsid might have changed meaning a bit..
[21:01] <ali1234> gstreamer stuff that i don't have
[21:01] <sidi-valencia> oh
[21:01] <sidi-valencia> send me messages pls
[21:01] <sidi-valencia> i need to update the build chain
[21:01] <sidi-valencia> it just builds too easily on my system
[21:01] <ali1234> i don't think it is a problem per se
[21:01] <sidi-valencia> (also pls tell me which ubuntu patches you have if any)
[21:01] <ali1234> the ubuntu package obviously uses some configure options to disable that stuff
[21:01] <ali1234> there's no distro patches in ubuntu afaik
[21:02] <ali1234> the thing is though... why does it only break with ubuntu stuff installed? they must be applying more security restrictions in some config somewhere...
[21:03] <sidi-valencia> i dont think its security-related
[21:04] <ali1234> commenting setsid didn't help
[21:05] <sidi-valencia> oki
[21:05] <sidi-valencia> can you also try with freopen, chdir and fork?
[21:05] <sidi-valencia> (with fork also comment setsid or it might be unhappy)
[21:07] <ali1234> the version in ubuntu is a little different
[21:07] <sidi-valencia> can you pls show me what they changed?
[21:07] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368945/
[21:07] <ali1234> i assume it is just an old version
[21:10] <ali1234> well, i'll figure this out the hard way i guess
[21:10] <ali1234> let me find my syslog debugging patches...
[21:12] <ali1234> i notice that in newer versions, gtk_init has been moved to after the fork
[21:12] <sidi-valencia> really?
[21:12] <ali1234> yeah, compare the paste with HEAD
[21:13] <ali1234> HAH that fixes it
[21:13] <ali1234> i wonder why we have this old version anyway?
[21:15] <ali1234> the version in ubuntu is marked as 0.2.0
[21:16] <ali1234> xfce git seems to be on 0.1.13
[21:16] <ali1234> i don't understand :(
[21:21] <sidi-valencia> oh you guys probably got a version bump from mr_pouit's patch
[21:22] <sidi-valencia> is it the -pulse version? it would explain the different version number
[21:22] <ali1234> yes
[21:22] <sidi-valencia> then i guess its normal
[21:22] <ali1234> where does that come from?
[21:22] <sidi-valencia> so the problem was gtk_init before fork?
[21:22] <ali1234> yeah
[21:22] <ali1234> "a" problem, anyway
[21:22] <ali1234> but it still doesn't exlain why it worked before, and then stopped
[21:22] <ali1234> but certainly a bug that needs fixing
[21:23] <sidi-valencia> it doesnt explain anything
[21:23] <sidi-valencia> at all
[21:23] <ali1234> i know, but meh
[21:23] <sidi-valencia> it shouldnt make a difference
[21:23] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed-pulse <- so this is in fact a fork
[21:24] <knome> sidi-valencia, nice to see you back and working on things!
[21:24] <sidi-valencia> knome, not really
[21:24] <sidi-valencia> please
[21:24] <sidi-valencia> dont say that
[21:25] <sidi-valencia> :D
[21:25] <sidi-valencia> it pressures me
[21:25] <sidi-valencia> :D
[21:25] <knome> sidi-valencia, yess...
[21:25] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, kind of
[21:25] <sidi-valencia> xfce4-volumed is old crappy unmaintained software
[21:25]  * knome wants to make sidi empathise
[21:26] <knome> well at least you're around, and talking
[21:27] <sidi-valencia> haha
[21:27] <sidi-valencia> :)
[21:27] <ali1234> there's no "kind of" - it says it's a fork right on the LP page :)
[21:27] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, i dont know what to say. this story is very very weird
[21:27] <knome> the first step to contributions ;)
[21:27] <sidi-valencia> knome, im writing SandboxUtils and im appreciative of any sanity tests on the build process
[21:28]  * knome knows a bit too little about that
[21:28] <sidi-valencia> its just some random app
[21:28] <sidi-valencia> build it and type commands in the README
[21:28] <sidi-valencia> it does *nothing* anyway
[21:28] <sidi-valencia> it doesnt even sandbox anything
[21:28] <knome> lol
[21:28] <knome> i guess i can look at that later
[21:30] <ali1234> brainwash: would you like to check if xfsettingsd also forks after gtk_init()?
[21:32] <ali1234> so... daemon mode got moved to after gtk_init to support using gtk to parse command line
[21:33] <sidi-valencia> bbl
[21:33] <ali1234> although i don't see why tbh
[21:33] <ali1234> it's only using glib
[21:34] <ali1234> hmm
[21:37] <ali1234> why does it even use fork() to go daemon?
[21:39] <ali1234> "It seems that gtk_init connect to dbus session. Currently, it is called before fork, i.e. parent process. Parent process quit after the checking gui enable. So dbus session become disconnected."
[21:39] <ali1234> i bet this is the problem
[21:40] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, anyway command line will be exactly the same before and after the fork??
[21:41] <sidi-valencia> i use fork because i want to detach from the terminal
[21:41] <sidi-valencia> and you shouldnt setsid without fork in case you're already detached
[21:41] <sidi-valencia> cant setsid if youre a process group leader
[21:41] <sidi-valencia> whatever that means
[21:41] <sidi-valencia> posix obscurities
[21:41] <sidi-valencia> anyways, you have to fork+setsid because, erm, that's life :D
[21:42] <ali1234> hmm, as i suspected, xfsettingsd also calls gtk_init (and also opens a dbus connection) before forking
[21:43] <ali1234> i will look at what gnome-settings-daemon does i guess
[21:48] <ali1234> gnome-settings-daemon doesn't fork, anywhere
[21:49] <ali1234> or if it does, it uses some glib function to do it
[21:50] <brainwash> ali1234: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-appfinder/commit/?id=4a065a10945c72c985e254ff1ef13df188f3e11e
[21:51] <ali1234> daemon mode was removed from gnome-settings-daemon because "it confuses dbus"
[21:51] <sidi-valencia> google "fork before gtk_init"?
[21:52] <ali1234> brainwash: what is that?
[21:54] <ali1234> okay, i think i understand what is happening
[21:54] <ali1234> normally gtk_init() does not connect to dbus
[21:54] <ali1234> however, overlay scrollbar is implemented as a preload library
[21:54] <ali1234> *it* almost certainly connects to dbus
[21:55] <ali1234> so if enabled, gtk_init() now will connect to dbus earlier than normal
[21:55] <ali1234> then when you fork, dbus gets "confused" and bad things happen
[21:55] <ali1234> it might not be overlay scrollbar, itmight be some other ubuntu hack
[21:55] <ali1234> like appmenus for example
[21:56] <ali1234> yes
[21:56] <ali1234> it is UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
[21:57] <ali1234> unsetting it, and then running the volumed fixes the problem
[21:57] <ali1234> so this is in fact the same old xfsettingsd bug, with a slightly different way to get to the same problem
[21:58] <brainwash> aha
[21:58] <ali1234> so now we can fix both these problems properly :)
[21:58] <brainwash> the linked commit fixed the problem for the appfinder
[21:58] <ali1234> that probably causes the child process to open a new dbus connection rather than reusing the gtk one
[21:59] <ali1234> so fix was a side effect
[21:59] <brainwash> yes, it's a side effect
[22:02] <ali1234> so fixing bug 1307657 would fix this
[22:07] <sidi-valencia> so the fix is sudo aptitude purge ubuntu*?
[22:07] <sidi-valencia> :D
[22:07] <ali1234> i can almost guarantee that xvd is hanging on a dbus call to get the keyboard layout from x server
[22:07] <ali1234> and yes
[22:07] <ali1234> (but we already knew that, just didn't know why)
[22:08] <ali1234> so i think we should go through and fix all the gtk_init() before fork() in all xfce software
[22:09] <ali1234> but i'm not sure of the best way to do it
[22:11] <sidi-valencia> now i still have a question
[22:11] <sidi-valencia> why on earth do i use gtk_init??
[22:11] <ali1234> well -pulse uses it to parse command line
[22:11] <sidi-valencia> it was here before
[22:11] <sidi-valencia> i dont remember why i use it
[22:11] <sidi-valencia> i think its just out of convenience
[22:11] <ali1234> yeah but after the fork() which is fine
[22:12] <sidi-valencia> why did they move it?
[22:12] <sidi-valencia> what was the rationale?
[22:12] <ali1234> so that gtk_init(argv, argc); would work
[22:12] <sidi-valencia> and how is vanilla XFCE?
[22:12] <ali1234> i can show you the commit
[22:12] <sidi-valencia> but fork does not clear argc/argv, does it??
[22:12] <ali1234> no, but they added a --no-daemon command line
[22:12] <ali1234> not much point parsing that after you alread went daemon
[22:13] <ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mrpouit/xfce4-volumed-pulse/master/revision/53#src/main.c
[22:13] <ali1234> mr_pouit: you broke it again :)
[22:14] <ali1234> there are ways to parse the command line without calling gtk_init though
[22:14] <ali1234> we should probably do that
[22:14] <sidi-valencia> oh
[22:14] <ali1234> wait
[22:14] <sidi-valencia> really
[22:14] <ali1234> actually
[22:14] <ali1234> i think it's already doing that with glib
[22:14] <ali1234> so i dunno why gtk_init() got moved
[22:15] <sidi-valencia> but thats not a reason. i have a --no-daemon option they can just change the name of my app instead
[22:15] <ali1234> maybe so that gtk gets gtk specific command lines earlier
[22:15] <sidi-valencia> of my app's command line
[22:15] <ali1234> yeah, i think you;re right
[22:15] <ali1234> i don't know what's going on here
[22:15] <ali1234> maybe it was just a silly mistake; it happens
[22:15] <sidi-valencia> it is just a silly mistake
[22:16] <sidi-valencia> in fact the original change
[22:16] <sidi-valencia> did not anticipate at all the changes made to gtk_init by Canonical
[22:16] <sidi-valencia> but i think now that there is a reason why it happens more often with the ubuntu codebase than other distros ;P
[22:17] <ali1234> absolutely, it's because of the weird gtk plugins they made that aren't thread safe
[22:17] <ali1234> or rather, fork() safe
[22:17] <sidi-valencia> because when you do undocumented hack-ish changes here and there only testing with your own packages, but having dependencies based on other hackers then at some point some of them play poorly. I must say kudos to you ali1234 because i would never have identified the origin of this bug as quickly (in fact im a bit jealous ;) )
[22:17] <sidi-valencia> i know xfce4-volumed is terribly dirty software... yet it somehow gets used
[22:18] <ali1234> we have this problem a lot
[22:18] <sidi-valencia> i think we should make sure to identify exactly whats wrong with it and ruin the life of the original author (aka me) until he pushes the *proper* fix rather than ubuntu patches
[22:18] <sidi-valencia> im very very grateful to mr_pouit for his pulse patch. but there should be no other ubuntu/xubuntu change to vanilla xfce software than that
[22:18] <ali1234> well the xfce4-volumed is fine, it's the -pulse version that is broken :)
[22:18] <sidi-valencia> because then i get bug reports that i cant make sense of ;)
[22:18] <sidi-valencia> yeah but its not the -pulse code that breaks
[22:18] <sidi-valencia> its the *other* changes
[22:19] <ali1234> yeah
[22:19] <sidi-valencia> which dont seem justified, which i dont know about and which could be done more neatly
[22:19] <ali1234> still, this is why i reported the bug on lp, not xfce bugs
[22:19] <ali1234> i knew all along it was something ubuntu did
[22:19] <sidi-valencia> (for instance i could upstream that daemon() syscall if asked why i should do it, and i could also use --no-daemon rather than --no-daemonize or whatever i have)
[22:19] <ali1234> because it worked before
[22:19] <sidi-valencia> yeah well im only subscribed to LP actually ;p
[22:20] <ali1234> i didnt even know there were two versions of this software
[22:20] <sidi-valencia> this app uses launchpad for bug reports, as far as i know
[22:20] <sidi-valencia> yeah its about time i merge mr_pouit 's code
[22:20] <ali1234> -pulse does, but i reported against the ubuntu package, not the upstream software (which i didn't know existed)
[22:20] <sidi-valencia> but guys please always report on the XFCE bugzilla or devel ML when you patch Xfce
[22:20] <sidi-valencia> whatever it is, unless it's literally just libubuntusomething
[22:21] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, i just meant that im subscribed everywhere anyway. im not blaming you at all for reporting the bug haha
[22:22] <ali1234> yeah, kudos for actually paying attention to distro bugs. a lot of devs would just say "report it on upstream" (and then close it for being distro specific)
[22:22] <ali1234> and especially given you don't even use ubuntu...
[22:22] <sidi-valencia> do you have pointers to the ubuntu code that causes DBus calls in gtk init?
[22:23] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, you guys write amazing software for me
[22:23] <sidi-valencia> so i want my software to work for you
[22:23] <sidi-valencia> i hate canonical but i love xubuntu
[22:24] <ali1234> something in here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/unity-gtk-module/utopic/view/head:/src/main.c
[22:24] <ali1234> is what cuases it
[22:25] <ali1234> unity-gtk-module is loaded if UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=1 and then it "hijacks" menus and exports them on dbus
[22:25] <ali1234> it's how they implement global menus
[22:27] <sidi-valencia> https://gitorious.org/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/c0400bb599e6a57a46274a4ea3b550365577c93c
[22:27] <sidi-valencia> very interesting
[22:28] <sidi-valencia> so anyone using gtk_init should fork first or expect trouble
[22:28] <bluesabre> knome: ping
[22:28] <sidi-valencia> i asked on #gtk+ for some wisdom about this
[22:28] <ali1234> yeah, there are loads of references to such bugs. basically gtk_init() before fork() is a bad idea, even if it usually works
[22:32] <ali1234> okay simply moving the call to gtk_init() fixes it, and no side effects with arguments or anything
[22:34] <sidi-valencia> great
[22:35] <sidi-valencia> pls change the --no-daemonize if need be
[22:41] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, thanks again. you did awesome work.
[22:41] <sidi-valencia> How did you identify the origin of the bug actually?
[22:41] <ali1234> what brainwash said made something click
[22:41] <sidi-valencia> hmm
[22:41] <sidi-valencia> brainwash, how did you come up with what you said? :D
[22:42] <ali1234> actually cos i noticed that the old version has the fork after init
[22:42] <ali1234> so i tried swapping them just at random to see what would happen
[22:44] <ali1234> we've had this problem before but never really figured out why it happened.. it just happened at random
[22:44] <ali1234> and then randomly got fixed
[22:44] <ali1234> and i have quite a lot of pointless knowledge about how ubuntu hacks work
[22:45] <ali1234> because they tend to break everything
[22:47] <ochosi> holy crap, so much backlog...
[22:48] <ali1234> tl;dr every xfce app that calls fork() after gtk_init() needs fixing
[22:48] <ali1234> this includes xfsettingsd and xfce4-volumed-pulse
[22:48] <ali1234> i just put in a MR for the latter
[23:05] <sidi-valencia> yeah
[23:05] <sidi-valencia> great
[23:05] <sidi-valencia> good job
[23:06] <sidi-valencia> i'd love so badly to put up a Xubuntu-like team on another distro...
[23:06] <sidi-valencia> if you guys werent losing time over ubuntu upkeep who knows what you'd be up to? :D
[23:09] <bluesabre> losing time over gnome upkeep
[23:09] <bluesabre> :)
[23:09] <bluesabre> and/or gtk
[23:10] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/458238/how-to-revert-from-gtk3-to-gtk2-indicators-in-xfce4-panel
[23:10] <ochosi> hope we'll be able to replace the indicators with xfce panel plugins sometime in the not so far future
[23:10] <ali1234> anyone want to add anything to that?
[23:13] <sidi-valencia> bluesabre, this is unity upkeep
[23:13] <sidi-valencia> gtk upkeep is costly enough but what does unity have to do with us? ;)
[23:13] <sidi-valencia> correct me if im wrong but Xfce still uses only GTK2 right?
[23:14] <ochosi> it does, but gtk3 dropped lots of stuff lately and introduced some new things that will make some of our core apps a bit weird/borked
[23:14] <bluesabre> parole is full gtk3, some other components compile as gtk2 or gtk3
[23:15] <sidi-valencia> oh i see
[23:16] <ali1234> sidi-valencia: do you have indicators in arch?
[23:25] <bluesabre> brainwash: poke
[23:25] <bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/zoomed
[23:25] <bluesabre> I'm assuming this also handles the positioning, and is probably tested? :)
[23:26] <bluesabre> and do you suspect this is related?
[23:26] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1300153
[23:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: i haven't gotten around to testing it tbh
[23:26] <ali1234> that bug doesn't look related
[23:27] <ali1234> or rather, fixing the wallpaper won't fix it
[23:27] <ali1234> basically gtk-greeter is not multimonitor aware... at all
[23:27] <bluesabre> that bug is single-display
[23:27] <ali1234> ok then in that case it is definitely not related
[23:27] <bluesabre> but I hope to fix the multimonitor stuff with the next release
[23:28] <bluesabre> :)
[23:28] <ali1234> brainwash' patch just makes it draw the wallpaper spanning monitors rather than once per monitor (even if they overlap)
[23:28] <ali1234> as i understand it, anyway
[23:28] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, sudo make uninstall works for that guy over ~ askubuntu
[23:28] <ali1234> i have not tested it either
[23:28] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, libindicator? that stuff from 2010 from Ubuntu?
[23:28] <bluesabre> ah
[23:28] <ali1234> sidi-valencia: oh really? okay then
[23:29] <bluesabre> he had mentioned improper zooming and positioning at one point
[23:29] <bluesabre> I also have not tested it
[23:29] <ali1234> yes, of the wallpaper
[23:29] <sidi-valencia> it'll erase the files regardless of whether they were created by his install though. it just removes files where it would have put them
[23:29] <ali1234> yeah, not all software has uninstall though
[23:34] <sidi-valencia> with autotools i think it should be.
[23:59] <bluesabre> anybody with an encrypted home and multiple languages want to verify if this is fixed in trusty?
[23:59] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1002706