ochosimorning everyone07:27
elfyhi ochosi 07:27
ochosihey elfy 07:28
elfythat's the package tracker set up and the testers told :)07:43
jhenkemorning folks, did anybody of you saw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-printers/+bug/1293606 already? just happened to me as well on the trusty work system08:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1293606 in indicator-printers (Ubuntu) "print icon frozen" [Undecided,Confirmed]08:03
elfynope - but printer's nto working at all in unicorn08:03
jhenkeokay, so it seems printing is in need of some attention08:06
brainwashbut we use the printer-applet and not indicator-printers10:00
brainwashthese extra unity indicators tend to be somewhat broken or badly integrated =S10:02
jhenkegood to know, the unity indicators have a more speaking name though11:05
brainwashjhenke: I've reassigned the report, because after taking a closer look it seems to be clear, that indicator-printers is not being used in this case11:06
jhenkebrainwash: sure, I just want to point out the obvious temptation to think it would be the other package11:07
brainwashI'm also pretty sure that someone has bothered me with this issue some time ago11:09
brainwashit's a python app after all, these are sometimes poorly coded :)11:09
ochosihey Logan_ 11:13
elfyseem to be a lot of mails in the -devel list of late that are support issues13:08
ochosithat sucks quite a bit13:11
elfynew XPL should stamp their mark on that list with a big foot on Friday13:11
elfybluesabre: you can read that too ^^ 13:12
elfyassuming we have a new one on Friday 13:12
ochosiyeah, otoh one angry mail won't change things quickly13:17
ochosiand more moderation is extra work13:17
elfythere is that 13:19
elfynot easy to moderate m/l methinks13:19
ochosithat is actually one point for or against having a sub-list for -team13:27
ochosiless need to moderate dev as the really important stuff gets discussed/decided on -team13:27
ochosiso -team actually becomes the new -dev, but it's a closed list (in terms of who can write)13:28
elfynot sure that's a point against having a -team list13:29
elfyif we just kept -devel - then if something came along that needed -team to vote on and 200 replies turned up - would you want to count the -team votes?13:30
elfyimo we need something that's usable at any time - m/l being an option - that we know isn't going to have replies to it that are not needed13:31
ochosiwell, what i meant was:13:33
ochosiyes, we will have a clean list because only we can write on it13:33
ochosibut ppl could consider it as elitism (i think knome mentioned that at some point) because the list is closed13:33
ochosibut personally, i think that doesn't matter, we could use a closed space to talk13:34
ochosiand ppl can still read13:34
ochosiand become team members or show up at meetings (which are open too)13:34
elfywell as far as elitism is concerned - team is :)13:55
elfyit's not closed though :)13:55
knomei personally think that it is at least highly annoying that there are non-development related posts in the -devel list14:03
knomeand whether we actually created a new list or not, i *still* think those should be forwarded to users14:03
knomeor simply make -devel only for team members to post14:03
knomepeople can always keep complaining how stuff is "exclusive"14:04
knomebut that's not a valid point as long as the mail they are trying to send is unsuitable for the list14:04
elfyI'd have thought that forwarding to -devel would be more suitable14:06
knomeyes, i'd rather have everything initially go to -users14:06
knomewell here's the thing14:06
knomei can't see any way we can make non-devel-related issues stop on -devel14:07
knomeunless we block all mails except from those from team (and other explicitly trusted emails)14:07
knomeit's much better to have a relatively devel-related issue on users14:08
knomethan to have a firefox support issue on devel14:08
elfyso close -devel completely14:08
knomemake -devel the "team" list14:08
knomeand moderate all mails not from team14:08
knomeand tell everybody to send to -users14:08
knomeor in special cases, allow them to send to -devel14:08
knomethat is, explicitly specify it's ok14:09
elfyok - I can see that 14:09
knomethe majority of the fuzzy mails are generated by threads started by non-team members14:09
knomeeg. "i want libreoffice"14:09
elfyneed more mods for list then14:09
knomethen it turns into a flamewar or otherwise just an irrelevant thread14:09
knomewe need more moderators anyway14:09
elfyI don't mind doing that14:10
knomei can list several people who i'm happy to give the mod access right away14:10
elfyif we go that way14:10
knomeright, would you be willing to do it regardless what we decide about the lists?14:10
knomebecause if yes, i'll drop you in the moderator list right now14:10
elfyyea I don't mind doing that 14:10
knomelet me get you the details soon14:11
elfyI know how to - the FC list is closed 14:11
elfyeverything to that is moderated14:11
knomeyeah, i mean passwords and such ;)14:11
elfyyep 14:12
* elfy hates m/l password - they all get confused with each other ... 14:12
knomeso yay14:15
knomei'm really interestes how this mailing list stuff goes14:16
knomei want to cut down my influx of mail now that i don't actually need to monitor it all14:16
elfyall that said - this won't help the need in my opinion for something like trello14:18
knomeyeah, i understand14:18
knomethey are two completely different things14:18
elfywhat it will mean is I don't need to bother with forestpiskie 14:18
elfyif it's important enough for me to know when I'm not here it should be elsewhere :)14:18
* elfy is sitting here wondering why the testcase for xfdesktop settings is so completely wrong ... 14:19
knomeis the testcase written for 4.10?14:20
elfyI think it's probably written for something older than Moses :p14:20
elfyanyway - good job we're going through them :p14:21
ochosihehe, i step away for a few mins and knome makes my point for me :)14:28
ochosiso yeah, +1 on making -devel the new -team list14:28
ochosisimply because creating another list when we already have one blows14:29
elfywell stopping people who can currently post to it wasn't something I'd thought of doing tbh14:37
* ochosi thinks it's a sane consequence14:39
elfyyea agree - if we want to do that rather than create a new one 14:39
knomeelfy, we can send them a moderation message that explains the situation and suggests them to post the -users list15:51
slickymasterWorkhttps://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/XFCEOptional/+merge/218310 <- on it, elfy17:15
ali1234ochosi: wait, so i won't be able to post to -devel?18:30
brainwashali1234: join the team, problem solved :)18:40
amigamagicsorry for the intrusion guys, but it's possible to "approve"/"disapprove" an user when he want to register for a devel mailing list?18:53
amigamagicI mean, if you can write to a mailing list without approval from anyone, then it's normal that you will have unwanted messages too18:55
amigamagicbut if you should have to "approve" an user as developer before he could send its mails to the devel list, then the user would think more than 2 times, before send an email in that list18:56
ochosiali1234: we haven't discussed this very deeply yet, but the goal of that other (new, additional) list we were discussing was actually designed to get us a cleaner -devel list18:57
ochosiinstead of creating a new one, i personally think we should just clean up the devel list and make it more focussed again18:57
ochositoo many emails that are crypto-bugreports or wishlist-entries (or rants)18:57
ochosiso stuff that is not really helpful for or related to development18:58
ali1234okay but this doesn't answer my question :)18:58
amigamagichave you considered a forum?18:58
ali1234developers don't like forums18:59
ochosiali1234: well, there is no single yes/no answer yet, i presume we'll discuss this more and maybe even take a vote on this18:59
amigamagicali1234, why?19:00
ali1234they don't have threading, they are a pita to search, posting code requires using obscure escape codes, you need yet another login, forum warriors, mega-threads, stupid "don't post a new thread" rules,19:02
ali1234the annoying animated avatars and sigs, inability to reply inline easily, you have to use a web browser to access them19:04
ali1234you can't have any control over the user interface because you are stuck with whatever braindead html the creator chose19:04
ochosinicely said19:05
ali1234and of course don't forget that because it's html, you have to GET and POST which means the UI is guaranteed to suck and lose your post you spent half an hour writing19:05
ali1234eg if you accidentally click back, or another link19:05
amigamagicI think you have been a little bit exaggerated on the matter, but I understand many things you said. :)19:10
ochosiali1234: anyway, i guess this channel our primary form of communication either way19:18
ochosiand as brainwash suggested, you can always join the team ;)19:20
amigamagicwhat exactly means "join the team"? :)19:20
ochosiit means contribute consistently for a while, let the others in the team get to know you a bit, and take responsibility (or something like that)19:24
sidi-valenciait means there's a group of individuals bound by some sort of tacit social rule (usually a common objective), that causes them to identify themselves as being such a group, and joining the team refers to you abiding by the same tacit rules and identifying yourself in the same way as them and them accepting that you do so19:25
* sidi-valencia is done trolling here.19:25
* amigamagic is going to eat very much to restore its mental forces after sidi-valencia answer19:27
sidi-valenciaIt means you can kick people like out of the team's boundaries and on the other side of the geographical representation of said boundaries, too.19:29
* sidi-valencia likes to say ******19:29
ali1234we got a breakthrough on that thunar bug... someone found steps to 100% reproduce it19:40
elfyali1234: did you miss this bit of the m/l discussion "unless we block all mails except from those from team (and other explicitly trusted emails)"19:43
ali1234i didn't read any of that, just going on what i read here19:43
elfythat is here 19:43
ali1234oh, well i missed it then19:44
elfyI guessed so :)19:44
knomeali1234, if we decide to limit the -devel list for team members only, we can obviously allow non-team members too, with consideration19:45
knome...and we probably should, because not everybody that can give us insightful messages is on the team19:46
knomewe've allowed mails from non-subbed ubuntu/canonical employees through before, we can continue with the same mindset19:46
jhenkeali1234 do you mean the "fork before gkt_init()"?19:51
ali1234with thunar? no, that's definitely not it19:51
ali1234with the new method i can crash it without daemon mode19:51
jhenkeokay, just saw that mail today on the xfce-dev ML and thought you might mean it19:53
amigamagicali1234, what thunar bug?20:18
ali1234bug 120329620:19
ubottubug 1203296 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120329620:19
amigamagicyeah, I too can reproduce it20:29
amigamagicat first I couldn't reproduce it because if you click on the eject little icon it works20:29
elfyslickymaster: thanks :)20:37
ali1234hmm.... okay... system has gone really strange20:49
ali1234okay, getting somewhere. it still crashes with G_SLICE=always-malloc20:56
ali1234G_SLICE=debug-blocks doesn't catch any early errors20:57
sidi-valenciais it 100% reproducible?20:59
ali1234it is for me20:59
ali1234i have not quite nailed down exactly which steps are required yet though20:59
ali1234the procedure is a bit long winded21:00
ali1234basically you need an unmounted drive eg a usb drive (and it might have to be a usb drive)21:03
ali1234then you mount it, open a file on it, attempt to unmount it twice, close the file, unmount it for real, then quit thunar. it will segfault21:04
elfyali1234: that might be why I can't reproduce it now - usb sticks only21:04
ali1234what do you mean exactly?21:04
elfy"it might have to be a usb drive"21:05
ali1234did you try it with mounting a non-usb drive?21:05
ali1234wait, i can try it21:06
elfyI've got none 21:06
elfyoh - would a partition do it?21:06
ali1234i dunno, that's the question :)21:06
ali1234"eject" does not trigger the bug21:06
elfynot sure if I could umount the other drive completely21:06
ali1234only "unmount"21:06
ali1234okay confiit worked with a fixed SATA disk partition21:07
ali1234probably it will happen with anything that gets mounted, eg gvfs network shares (seen reports of that)21:08
elfyso - mount - open something from it - unmount - close error dialogue - close opened file - unmount 21:09
elfyyep - crashed21:11
ali1234i always have to do it twice but i think "where thunar thinks it is" affects the result21:11
ali1234where is the highlight in the sidebar when you close thunar?21:12
elfyjust did it the once and it's started apprt21:12
elfyhang on - I'll do it again21:12
elfyafter closing the error dialogue the sidebar highlight has defaulted to my home in places21:13
ali1234and it crashes?21:13
ali1234hmm... well, so much for that theory21:13
elfytwice now 21:13
elfythat's with an unmounted fixed drive partition21:14
elfyany point in me sending this bug report - it's in Unicorn21:14
ali1234none at all21:15
elfythought as much :)21:15
ali1234uploading a video of me reproducing it21:17
ali1234it's easier than telling exactly every single step i do21:17
elfyok - I'll follow it tomorrow when I'm more awake 21:18
elfyI'm notoriously bad at following video's ... 21:18
ali1234if i try to write every single step i'll just forget something important21:19
ali1234how are you unmounting? with right click?21:19
ali1234are you doing left click select then right click to open menu? or directly right clicking? i think that makes a difference?21:20
ali1234also i think click okay or cancel on each dialog might affect it too21:20
elfyright click on sidebar 21:20
ali1234well yes21:20
ali1234but do you left click the item first to select it?21:20
elfyno - not left click select - direct right click on sidebar21:21
elfyand cancel dialogue21:21
ali1234that's what i am doing, and i always have to do it twice21:21
ali1234i cancel the failed ones and okay the okay ones21:21
elfyI've not had an okay one to okay21:21
ali1234oh? when i do the successful unmount i still get one of the dialogues21:22
elfyI wasn't - also this time it didn't creash21:24
brainwashfinally some progress :)21:31
elfyali1234: I don't get that second busy dialogue here after the open file is closed21:31
elfyali1234: http://pastebin.com/sQ5L6wKK21:34
ali1234so the weird thing about this is that it's not slice/malloc mismatch, and it's not double free - because those should be caught by the various debug switches21:39
ali1234so really this can only be a pointer getting corrupted somehow, so it eventually tries to free something it's never seen before21:39
ali1234i guess the next step is valgrind with every possible test21:40
elfywell ... happy to help where I can, but you'll need to give me pointers with that 21:42
elfysounds like some Norse mythology ... 21:42
ali1234te only thing valgrind showed up was this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7401227/21:44
ali1234and it does involve "shortcuts" so it's a possibility21:45
elfyhi GridCube - I hammered out the xfce ones today21:48
GridCubehi elfy yes, i got an email from trello because i suscribed to the task21:49
elfybut no mails about anything else?21:50
GridCubeP: no because i did not suscribed to anything else21:53
elfyyep - just checking - knome appeared to be worried about that I think21:54
sidi-valenciawould a virtual volume do it? elfy 21:56
elfynot sure - I'm just following instructions :)21:56
elfyali1234: I'm off now - if you think of anything you want me to try - tell forestpiskie and I'll read it with the first cuppa 21:57
elfynight all21:57
sidi-valenciaali1234, that invalid write on a gobject_dispose...21:58
sidi-valenciawhich gobjects are related to volumes?21:58
sidi-valenciais it possible that smth gets freed straight away on a fail unmount?21:58
sidi-valenciai'd be looking for that personally :P21:58
ali1234i dunno, but that looks like something to do with icons... and the volumes do have icons... and they change when you mount/unmount21:58
ali1234yes, so maybe the icon gets freed too early on unmount21:58
ali1234although that would cause a double free, and valgrind would surely catch that21:59
sidi-valenciahttps://chipx86.github.io/gtkparasite/ would that debugger help?21:59
sidi-valenciaDisclaimer: never used it :P21:59
sidi-valencianot necessarily a double free methinks22:00
sidi-valenciasay you have a foo object for your volumes22:00
sidi-valenciapointing to bar and ter22:00
sidi-valenciaand bar got a ref to ter22:00
sidi-valenciasay foo frees ter but not bar when failing to unmount (which would be a bug obviously)22:00
sidi-valenciathen later on disposing bar might cause bar to write stuff to ter such as a g_object_unref (ter)22:00
sidi-valenciabut ter is already gone22:00
sidi-valencianot a free but definitely an invalid write22:01
sidi-valenciayou never free a gobject directly normally22:01
ali1234nah, that's just like a dom explorer22:07
ali1234i've used it a lot22:07
ali1234hmm yeah22:08
ali1234this is pretty much all i can think of too22:08
ali1234going to dig into the code and find exactly where it crashes22:08
ochosisounds good though22:10
ochosithat crash happens very frequently to me22:10
ochosii think i can reproduce it 100% with my ipod22:10
ochosiunmounting is quasi inpossible with thunar22:10
ochosiwith gigolo unmounting works as it should22:10
ochosinetwork shares are (as you stated correctly) also quite a sure shot for crashing thunar here22:12
ochosiLogan_: hey there! think you could sponsor this to get the SRU process going? https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/parole/gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio/+merge/21656522:21
ochosiit should be a fairly simple one, if you have any questions though, feel free to ping me or bluesabre 22:21
bluesabrethanks ochosi23:25

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