=== maclin__ is now known as maclin [05:16] Good morning [05:17] Sweetshark: done === work_alkisg is now known as alkisg === qengho is now known as CardinalFang === CardinalFang is now known as qengho === FJKong_afk is now known as FJKong === alkisg is now known as work_alkisg [06:43] Hello, world!\n [07:02] morning desktopers [07:03] who can i bribe to help us get a patch for gtk2 into trusty (that causes a lot of headache for xubuntu users)? [08:21] morning seb128 [08:24] good morning desktopers [08:25] hey ochosi [08:26] what could i do to get a gtk2 bug fixed in trusty? (patch has already been applied upstream) [08:27] it's a bug that affects xubuntu especially, as it crashes our file-manager a lot [08:27] ochosi, attach the patch to a bug, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors [08:27] (the patch is tiny and trivial) [08:27] bonus point if you file the SRU info on the bug [08:27] ok :) [08:28] this is the bugreport with the patch, fyi: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723366 [08:30] thanks for the heads up seb128, will try to get that done [08:32] ochosi, thanks [08:37] Hi. I have a question? When I trying burn disc with Ubuntu from Windows UltraISO, I getting one folder EFI. Thats repeat also with "Unetbootin". [08:38] How can I write normally install iso to dvd disc? [08:39] EFI folder size 2.294 has only 2.2 mb [08:41] hey, try #ubuntu for user questions [09:30] seb128, hi [09:31] darkxst, hey [09:32] seb128, bug 1316383 [09:33] saw that, thanks [09:33] logo patch was pita with gresources ;( but done now === vrruiz_ is now known as rvr [09:51] seb128: hey, i've never done a SRU before, would you mind taking a look whether this is ok or whether i messed up? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/1316509 [09:52] ochosi, that looks great, thanks! [09:52] ochosi, just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors as well and you are gold ;-) [09:53] seb128: great, thanks for taking a look! [09:53] yw! [09:59] ochosi, that patch should really go upstream ;) [09:59] darkxst: i agree, but what're you gonna do... [09:59] i mean the patch was even written for gtk2 originally [09:59] so meh [10:00] ochosi, gtk-2 is still maintained to some extent [10:00] you should file a bug on bugzilla.g.o with the patch [10:00] did you look at the upstream bugreport i linked? [10:00] it *was* filed there and against gtk2 [10:00] they just chose not to apply it [10:00] instead here: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkmountoperation.c?h=gtk-3-12&id=05f2f634260519b5448ffd53e8883412c0251443 [10:00] don't think filing another bugreport is going to make them change their mind [10:01] oh missed that [10:01] i dunno, if you have good ties to gtk devs, it'd be nice if you could mention it again to them [10:02] it's really a no-brainer, that patch and it would be nice if ubuntu wasn't the only distro carrying the fix [10:02] ochosi, they did not reject the patch, they said to remove the comment! [10:02] they did remove the comment in the commit i linked to above [10:02] and they set the bugreport to "fixed" [10:03] there is absolutely no reason why that can't be cherry-picked to gtk2 [10:03] just ask on the bug report! [10:03] i will [10:04] ochosi, darkxst, since mclasen accepted it he assumed the reporter can push it [10:04] i'm not on a gtk-rant, but what i said still applies ;) [10:04] ricotz, thats clear to me ;) [10:04] the patch *was* written for gtk2 and only applied against gtk3 [10:06] i hope comments on bugreports that are marked as "fixed" are even read... [10:06] ochosi, this happens just point it out, or ping mclasen and push it yourself [10:06] sure, did already add a comment [10:06] good [10:06] s/did/have/ s/add/added/ [10:07] anyhoo, if any of you can help with SRUing this to trusty even before it gets merged upstream, that be extremely nice [10:08] ochosi, btw, better add a proper patch with header to the sru bug [10:08] it really severly affects xubuntu and ubuntu-studio users (as can be seen from the tons of duplicates the thunar bugreport has i linked to) [10:08] e.g. a git format-patch [10:08] ochosi, and it has to go through utopic first! [10:09] well as i said before, this is my first SRU [10:09] gotta have some patience with me :) [10:10] ricotz: i'm not sure i know how to do a proper git patch against gtk2 unless you mean cloning the gtk2 repo (which would take forever, i'm behind a *really* slow connection atm) [10:12] darkxst: but sponsors are already subscribed, do i need to do anything else for this to go to utopic? [10:13] ochosi, unless you find a really nice sponsor, you should prepare a debdiff using the upstream (gtk3) patch [10:14] darkxst: i don't even know how to prepare a debdiff, so i'll go on hoping for a really nice sponsor... [10:14] ochosi, do you guys have any devs? [10:15] not really :/ [10:15] that was our biggest trouble in the trusty cycle [10:15] and why we had to push everything through the sponsors queue [10:16] anyhoo, i can see whether i can find someone to do the debdiff if the "really nice sponsor" doesn't materialize out of thin air [10:18] ochosi, did you test the gtk3 version of the fix [10:19] ochosi, it applies cleanly on gtk-2-24 - http://paste.debian.net/plain/97737 [10:20] ricotz: no, gtk3 didn't affect us at all [10:21] hmm, read again [10:21] ochosi, what i mean the fix mclasen pushed to gtk3 works as it is on gtk2 [10:22] yes, i know [10:22] at least it applies and compiles, so testing it would be nice [10:23] ricotz: ali1234 is the one who dug this up [10:23] o/ [10:23] i've been chaing this bug for months [10:24] it's the biggest crasher in xubuntu by far... actually it's like 9 out of the top 10 [10:24] and it's in the top 10 for all ubuntu as well [10:24] according to e.u.c [10:24] and we've never been able to reproduce it because it's a really fiddly memory corruption [10:24] but someone found a way yesterday [10:26] ricotz: ali1234 also boiled the bug down to this little thingy here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7403729/ [10:28] ochosi, ali1234 if you make a proper debdiff it will get sponsored no issues! [10:28] hola [10:28] me pica el pene [10:28] darkxst: i can make a debdiff but i can't guarantee it will be "proper" [10:29] ali1234, just make a debdiff with a changelog entry and the upstream patch (from gtk3)! [10:30] okay. the upstream patch also fixes an unrelated memory leak in a nearby closely-related function. it's also trivial and i think we should sneak it in too... [10:31] holi [10:32] jaja [10:32] ali1234, of course, but do test it first ;) [10:33] right-o [10:33] twitter? [10:33] asdfghj [10:38] ochosi, ali1234: don't bother about the debdiff, I've it on my list [10:38] if pitti (who pilots tomorrow apparently) doesn't get to it first [10:38] how long is the list? [10:38] today or tomorrow [10:39] if that's the question [10:39] :) [10:39] well, i need the practice anyway [10:39] and we should probably actually test it anyway [10:39] seb128, ali1234: thanks to both of you! [10:39] * ochosi bows [10:40] seb128 = "really nice sponsor" (you can logically deduct that from the conversation above, so iit's official :)) [10:40] yw! [10:40] ;-) [10:51] * darkxst bets seb128 is just filling is list with easy takings so he doesn't have to deal with my mammoth g-c-c merge ;) === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:26] seb128: will you tackle live installer image first or rather alternate? [11:27] ?? [11:27] asac, live installer, having a liveCD to boot to play with unity8 might be the most interesting thing at first [11:27] what alternate ? [11:27] ogra_, speaking about unity8 desktop images [11:27] we dont have alternate anymore since precise :P [11:27] not sure if we are going to do alternate [11:27] or what ogra_ says [11:27] I never really used/tracked those anyway :p [11:27] yeah, dead and gone [11:28] we have server images that use the texxt based installer ... but even these use debians live-installer internally ... plain alternate is only the netinst img nowadays [11:29] xnox, do you plan to port ubiquity to Qt? [11:29] * ogra_ grins [11:29] seb128: only after we get rid of qt4 of the desktop image. [11:29] I'm unsure what's even the plan for desktop installer [11:29] since I guess we are going to converge desktop to system images as well [11:30] seb128: ubiquity is GTK isnt it? will that work on mir? [11:30] e.g. do we have a backend yet [11:30] asac, yes yes no [11:30] * asac matches answers [11:30] it's GTK, getting a GTK backend for Mir is on our roadmap for this cycle [11:30] but it's not done yet [11:30] seb128: so right now the installer wont work? [11:30] right [11:30] or is there a bandaid/hack? [11:30] ic ic [11:31] so first images are going to be liveCD environment you can play with [11:31] seb128: so you think its feasible as a malta goal to have a demo image? [11:31] ic [11:31] seb128: that is either write u1 plugin page for u-c-c / online-accounts or otherwise port it to qt5 [11:31] so no installer [11:31] ack [11:31] a live image you can boot and use to test unity8 yes [11:31] no installer [11:31] seb128: i heard the plans were for unity8 session to start from an lxc container, thus a normal installer can still be used. [11:31] xnox, with is ubiquity depending on dropping qt4? [11:32] seb128: so we cant run the installer tests then i guess? [11:32] not in a first time no [11:32] (checking on what we just discussed as malta goal) [11:32] seb128: i mean personal / priority / size-constraints, although i guess we already ship both qt4 & qt5. [11:32] * asac scratches that then [11:33] xnox, we do ship both yes, webapps are using the qt5 stack at least [11:33] maybe we can run the unity8 APs on the live session instead to have something on dash? [11:33] asac, that would work for me [11:33] boot the live image [11:33] run the ap tests [11:33] seb128: i can check how much work it would be to port kubuntu's qt4 frontend to qt5. But that won't be qml / ubuntu-components. [11:33] seb128: i somehow sense that this live session is kind of close to a system image :) [11:33] xnox, that's fine, that would give use a qpa for Mir [11:33] just saying [11:33] e.g. its read only [11:34] you install it through usb-creator [11:34] right [11:34] maybe we could try using a proper RO partition instaed of the squashfs? [11:34] why would we not want X btw ? [11:34] think would be much faster to use then [11:34] ogra_: X? [11:34] i assume you will want XMir to be usable to run X apps [11:34] there is no Xmir right now [11:34] so having the old ubiquity running under X shouldnt be a prob [11:35] ogra_, is that working in current e.g trusty unity8 test session? [11:35] did we drop XMir ? [11:35] it was there for the last cycle [11:35] I don't think we dropped it [11:35] ogra_: that effort was folded before saucy release, yes [11:35] asac: why usb-creator? [11:35] ah [11:35] its in the plans though [11:35] seb128: asac: FYI, otto was doing that: booting the live system [11:35] and running tests on it [11:35] i thought it worked last cycle already [11:35] it did [11:35] xnox: thats how you install the live cd on a usb stick, no? [11:35] ubiquity might just run fine on it then [11:36] well, let the installer run on plain X ... thats tested and reliable ... only start using Mir on the installed system then [11:36] would we want to move away and rather make ubuntu-device-flash the way to do that? i dont think so; somehow feel maybe usb-creator could become the next gen ubuntu-device flash :) [11:36] asac: use dd. usb-creator is specific to live/ubuntu-cd isos and doesn't reliably wipe usb-sticks. [11:37] xnox: hmm. so you say usb-creator is a dead end? and if we wanted to do a UI for installing things like touch and unity8 with system image in the future we rather should do a new tool? [11:37] usb-creator has a pretty bad reputation ... [11:37] xnox: note that we are talkinga bout creating a livecd for unity8 as first step... feels matches what usb-creator does [11:37] due to it having been so buggy in the past [11:38] so a new UI tool has to arrive? [11:38] it only got a lot better recently [11:38] asac: it's not currently actively maintained, and it has a few bugs. [11:38] right, but should we invest in making that better or rather go for a new tool from scratch? [11:38] or make dd our official end-user tool :P? [11:38] a new name at least :) [11:38] asac: getting time on fixing it up, would be useful. but nobody is doing that at the moment. I saw a few bugs report from Timo about it, but no connection that there is high-priority work done that will rely on usb-creator. [11:39] yeah [11:39] asac: making it better should be feasible. [11:39] xnox: how gtk specific is the code? if the logic his highly coupled with GTK/UI logic, then guess a qt tool might be the way to go indeed [11:40] we have no python QML bindings yet, do we ? [11:40] s/the way to go/the way *in* go/ :) [11:40] asac: both ubiquity and usb-creator have backend code and frontends. both have gtk+ and a qt4 frontends. [11:41] ogra_: we do have qml python bindings, not in main however. [11:41] ah, cool, that got better then [11:43] hmm [11:43] xnox: is that code at least py3 yet? [11:44] it is [11:44] asac: all of it is py3. we ported that cycles ago (quantal?) [11:44] ochosi: seb128 just uploaded the gtk2 patch to a ppa... https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/gtk2mountop/+packages [11:44] quantal was before my resurrection :P [11:45] *i just uploaded... [11:54] ali1234, ok [11:55] ali1234: thanks, i'll wait till it has built and then test it === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:22] bregma, hey, nice work on the analysis of that touch bug, what exactly is the fix thats needed now [13:22] its in the QPA from upstream? [13:23] yes [13:23] what's the bug number? [13:23] at the moment I'm rebuilding Qt with explicit tablet support disabled [13:23] to verify [13:24] bregma, ok will stand by [13:24] if that fixes things, it goes upstream to Qt, otherwise it goes upstream to x.org [13:24] seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 [13:24] pmcgowan, thanks [13:27] do we have people working on qt5? [13:35] mlankhorst, as needed but not full time, we have made some bug fixes [14:02] bregma, hey, I'm playing with the unity8-mir session ... does that include xmir/a way to start X apps? [14:09] om26er, hey, could you help to figure out what's the issue with ubuntu-system-settings and CI, we get failures similar to https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot-testrunner-otto-trusty/4451/? on the CI runs for some reason [14:10] seb128, in a call, will do that in a few minutes [14:13] om26er, no hurry, thanks [14:26] pmcgowan: ok do you understand the input stack of qt? [14:26] mlankhorst, no experience with it [14:26] I suspect some of the unity8 guys are pretty aware [14:27] Saviq, or greyback perhaps [14:27] ok [14:27] mlankhorst: what do you need to know? [14:30] greyback: it's for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 -- I don't completely understand the qt changes required for it [14:31] mlankhorst: ah, dandrader working on that as we speak. He can tell you more [14:31] will ask him to join this channel if you'd like [14:32] greyback, bregma is doing a test now to disable tablet [14:32] kenvandine, hey [14:32] hey seb128 [14:32] kenvandine, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/data-roaming-disable/+merge/217965 ... it's a small change, just some sanity check [14:32] sure [14:33] kenvandine, thanks [14:34] greyback, I think the issue is these folks are not familiar with Qt and may need some other eyes on the code [14:36] pmcgowan: ok. dandrader knows the Qt input handling code better than I do, and I know he's working on it. But if other opinion needed, let me know [14:36] ok [14:40] yeah asked him, but he's not touching it for this bug :( [14:40] so I'll do it myself [14:45] mlankhorst: dandrader is definitely working on that bug right now. But he thinks the problem is somewhere in X11. If you disagree, I'm sure he's like to know your reasoning [14:45] s/he's/he'd/ [14:46] true, but the touch code is next to impossible to understand. :P [15:02] xnox: moving here... [15:02] Well, the gnome-keyring thing would be nice, but is it possible to get that in 14.04 as well? [15:02] Trevinho, gnome-keyring what? [15:02] xnox: the fact is that gnome-session is not reliable in restarting unity if it crashes, and this might cause security issues if it was locked... [15:03] seb128: it's fricking env variables... [15:03] oh, right [15:03] seb128: trying to move unity to upstart, causes some trobules [15:03] :/ [15:04] seb128: basically I'm getting a terminal launched with ctrl+alt+t (thus fron unity-settings-daemon, I suppose) with all the env correctly set... but if launch one from the launcher/dash I miss some of the gnome keyring envs [15:05] seb128: for reference, sudo sed "s/compiz;//" -i /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session -> start your (guest) session and env | grep key will act differently [15:06] Trevinho: the way i move unity under upstart is different. [15:06] Trevinho, k [15:06] Trevinho: instead of removing compiz from ubuntu.session, i make compiz exec command to be "start compiz" and add appropriate job for it. [15:08] Trevinho: gnome-keyring env variables are missing, because of bug #1271591 [15:08] which is solved in unicorn by now, but not yet in trusty. I will sru that change. [15:08] ubuntu bot is gone? [15:08] xnox: ah, nice... [15:09] xnox: what is the way you make compiz to run with upstart btw (I said that since it's the faster to try) [15:09] xnox: and... why these envs are applied to unity-settings-daemon job instead? [15:10] Trevinho: i don't understand "why these envs are applied to unity-settings-daemon job instead?" can you explain more, what you mean? [15:10] xnox: if you use ctrl+alt+t to run a terminal, it has all the keyring envs, even if it's still launched by upstart and not by g-s- [15:12] Trevinho: the bug about gnome-keyring is that it's agent environment variables are available to everything that's started by e.g. gnome-session, but those variables are not exported to upstart thus $ initctl list-env doesn't show them, and anything started by upstart doesn't have them. [15:12] Trevinho: echo "exec compiz" > ~/.config/upstart/compiz.conf [15:13] xnox: ok, that was my guss as well and what I would have done to fix it anyway... [15:13] Trevinho: and change /usr/share/applications/compiz.desktop "Exec= start compiz" [15:13] xnox: ah, ok... that's what happens already in unity7.conf if you remove the grep-check [15:13] Trevinho: the fix for gnome-keyring is in utopic.... [15:13] Trevinho: look at the gnome-keyring job in utopic. [15:14] xnox: yep, I'm on it now [15:14] Trevinho: you can just copy it. E.g. pull-lp-source gnome-keyring; cp gnome-keyring-*/debian/gnome-keyring.conf ~/.config/upstart/ [15:14] start gnome-keyring [15:14] and everything should be fixed. [15:14] xnox: altough while that fix is reasonable to me, I was worried about other possible generic g-s clients that might use its dbus interface to register env variables... [15:15] xnox: so, I was thinking if we should instead do something like that inside the callback of RegisterEnv variable of gnome-session dbus interface [15:15] Trevinho: what's that interface? we can grep the archive and check who / where does it. [15:15] Trevinho: instead of gnome-session dbus interface, one would set it via upstart instead e.g. initctl set-env FOO=bar [15:16] xnox: ok, sure, but you know it's not always the nicest thing to do when you might use a global fix instead :) [15:16] Trevinho: ideally i wouldn't be running gnome-session at all =) but we are not there yet. [15:16] xnox: indeed, but that will apply to all the apps already running (if that cames later)? [15:16] Trevinho: yes, it will apply to all the apps already running. [15:17] Trevinho: as it would set it for gnome-session as well. [15:17] xnox: thus, why not changing org.gnome.SessionManager.SetEnv to call it? [15:17] xnox: I didn't try yet, but for sure from my devbugging it gets called by the keyring-daemon [15:17] Trevinho: we could do that as a hook. [15:18] xnox: anyway from my tests "initctl set-env FOO=bar" doesn't ever apply to all the upstart started apps :/ [15:18] no idea why [15:18] It did once, but now I fail to get it [15:18] it should be. [15:18] oh, --global. [15:18] yeah, also witht htat flag [15:19] hm. [15:19] this is odd, it should be modifying environment of all running jobs. [15:19] i'll follow up on that. [15:20] xnox: ok, anyway for now it would be nice if yo might sru the gnome-keyring-daemon change, so we can sru also the change at unity level [15:21] Trevinho: you are sruing running unity under upstart ?! [15:21] Trevinho: what's the bug number? [15:21] xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1308800 [15:22] until I noticed that... [15:23] Trevinho: oh, it's not started by upstart in error.... [15:25] xnox: what's the equivalent of initctl set-env *--global* using dbus? as it always seems to need the job name [15:28] Trevinho: there is dbus api for it - as initctl itself uses dbus api to actuall do everything. [15:29] xnox: yeah, I know, but what parameter should be used for "global"... as the first parametert needs the ["job", "instance"], thing... [15:29] Hey folks! [15:29] * KombuchaKip waves at seb128, brookswarner, and everybody else. [15:29] * KombuchaKip is working on two bugs, one in Thunderbird and the other in Eiciel. [15:30] KombuchaKip, hey [15:30] ok, it's meeting time [15:30] qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu, kenvandine, KombuchaKip: hey, it's meeting time ;-) [15:30] * kenvandine waves [15:31] Hey, y'all. [15:31] I hope everybody is doing well [15:31] * Sweet5hark runs from the beach and into the shade. [15:31] let's get started [15:31] qengho, hey [15:31] Just one item: [15:31] - in-progress: working on chromium bugs, mostly high-dpi popups, then tabs. [15:31] EOF === gatox is now known as gatox_lunch [15:32] qengho, tabs being the session issue? [15:32] I looked a little at the tabs problem. [15:32] I saw some extra users joined in commenting they see the issue as well [15:32] ohai [15:32] Trevinho: if instance is empty, it looks like global is auto-activated. [15:32] seb128: Yes. I found an interesting sorting function. I don't know if it' the cause yet. [15:32] xnox, Trevinho: can you move to another channel, we have a meeting starting [15:33] qengho, ok, I'm subscribed to the bug, so I'm going to watch it for comments if you found more ;-) [15:33] qengho, I can also do testing/provide debug info if needed [15:33] Yes. Thanks. [15:33] * xnox ducks [15:33] qengho, thanks [15:34] Sweet5hark, still on the beach? [15:34] nope, in the hotel. [15:34] - precise SRU tweaks and redtape [15:34] - a tiny bit more on the menu corner case [15:34] - othewise: was off on Thursday/Friday for holiday/vacation [15:34] EOF [15:35] Sweet5hark, give me a ping when you get that SRU ready for upload again [15:35] seb128: yep, going through the checklist right now. [15:35] good [15:36] Sweet5hark, thanks [15:36] mlankhorst, hey [15:36] mostly working on the touch bugs, looks like we have a workaround at least.. [15:36] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 and presumably https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1311828 being related [15:37] great [15:38] nice to see you guys have an handle on those issues [15:38] mlankhorst, thanks [15:38] tkamppeter, hey [15:38] still waiting on my touch laptop :/ [15:38] * KombuchaKip is working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eiciel/+bug/1315098 [15:38] - cups: Merged Ubuntu changes (socket-activated on-demand running of the daemon with Upstart, no hard dependency on avahi-daemon) to Debian so that Debian and Ubuntu packages can get synced again. [15:38] - ghostscript: Updated to upstream version 9.14. [15:38] - hplip, system-config-printer, ghostscript: Prepared SRUs for Trusty (all waiting for verification now) [15:38] - cups-filters: Let cups-browsed do case-insensitive comparing of device URIs and CUPS queue names now, investigations for further bug fixes. [15:38] - Started mentoring of GSoC students [15:38] - Bugs. [15:38] KombuchaKip, it's not your turn yet, please wait for your name to be listed [15:39] tkamppeter, did you find anyone knowing ghostscript to ping/email about that libspectre issue? [15:41] seb128, not yet, seems that I have to send a private e-mail to Marek Kasik. [15:41] tkamppeter, ok, thanks [15:41] desrt, hey, your turn [15:42] hey [15:42] was in berlin most of last week, doing the gtk hackfest [15:42] got a lot done there -- reached concensus on a lot of issues, including the introduction of a data model API in GLib [15:42] also talked about next steps on things like GProperty, epollification of mainloop, etc. [15:43] did some work on introspection and just landed the support for nullable parameters/return-types in master a few hours ago [15:43] that broke some stuff, so i'm currently in emergency-chase-down mode [15:43] that's all, really [15:44] desrt, did you discuss the headerbars and gtk/mir at the hackfesT? [15:44] yes [15:45] at least for the gtk/mir front, gtk is openminded, will accept patches, etc. [15:45] under the threat that it gets ripped out if we don't maintain it properly [15:45] about headerbars, larsu probably has more to say about this [15:45] one thing we did discuss was about the app-prefers-appmenu thing [15:46] gnome did some additional testing in this area and found that some small improvements increased the discoverability/usability of the app menu, so it seems that they will keep it [15:46] so the app-prefers-appmenu thing will go in now [15:46] ok, good [15:46] that gives a pretty simple mechanism for the menu story at least -- and apps may be able to use that to conditionalise headerbar [15:46] but i'm not sure that's desirable [15:46] larsu and i part a bit on this point.... [15:47] ok [15:47] let's see how that goes, doesn't seem like a topic we need to resolve during the meeting [15:47] desrt, thanks! [15:47] :) [15:47] attente, hey [15:48] hey seb128 [15:48] java non-latin shortcuts PPA, fixes Inkscape, Blender, IntelliJ, NetBeans, but breaks Eclipse and possibly other java apps. shift problem still exists under unity though, no progress there. [15:48] work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1315867, still in progress. [15:48] gnome-shell/classic g-s-d modifier-only shortcuts hack, pushed this to the java non-latin shortcuts PPA. [15:48] eof [15:48] ok [15:49]