=== noy_ is now known as noy === maclin_ is now known as maclin === jibel_ is now known as jibel === vladk|offline is now known as vladk === Greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco === jsgotangco is now known as Greeneggsnospam === vladk is now known as vladk|offline === vladk|offline is now known as vladk === doko_ is now known as doko === liam_ is now known as Guest5040 === vladk is now known as vladk|offline [17:54] godbyk and pmatulis_: ready? [17:57] belkinsa: Yep! [17:57] Perfect./ [18:00] #startmeeting Doc Team Meeting [18:00] Meeting started Wed May 7 18:00:18 2014 UTC. The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: [18:00] chair godbyk pmatulis_ [18:00] #chair godbyk pmatulis_ [18:00] Current chairs: belkinsa godbyk pmatulis_ [18:01] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda [18:01] Who is here for the Doc Team meeting? [18:01] o/ [18:01] o/ [18:01] o/ [18:01] Anyone else? [18:02] hi, i'm here [18:02] Prefect, you are one of the chairs, pmatulis_ and godbyk, [18:02] So there are three chairs and me. ;) [18:03] And pleia2. [18:03] She is not one. [18:03] Aha, right.. [18:03] Okay, starting now. [18:03] The first item is: Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings [18:03] #topic Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings [18:04] I was thinking about using the same day and time as this meeting for every month. Would this work for everyone? [18:05] not me, 1 hr earlier is better [18:05] As far as I know right now, yes. My schedule is likely to change a bit in a couple weeks, though, but I'll try to keep this slot open for our meeting. === shaunm_ is now known as shaunm [18:05] Alright, pmatulis_. And cool, godbyk. [18:05] hi all [18:05] Fine for me, whether 1h earlier or not. [18:05] belkinsa: An hour earlier is fine for me, too. [18:05] Hi, shaunm. [18:06] Hey all, shaunm, we are figuring out a date and time for our monthly meetings. One our earlier is the most voted option and the same day. [18:07] this is a tricky discussion to have during the meeting where all attendees can make this time ;) [18:07] pleia2: Good point. :) [18:07] Agreed, would this be better via mailing-list? [18:08] well, I think we just agree to an hour earlier than this time and re-evaluate later [18:08] Sure, that can work. [18:08] I'd post that time to the list and see if anyone can't make it. [18:09] Alright, do you want to take that action item, godbyk? [18:09] Yeah, let's decide and let people who are not here object. [18:09] belkinsa: Sure. [18:10] #action godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest [18:10] ACTION: godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest [18:10] Which Wednesday are we interested in? First Wednesday of the month or some other one? [18:10] Oh, I think the first Wednesday of the month. [18:11] But anyone else can voice something else. [18:11] wow, this is going to be a long meeting [18:12] It will, since there is a lot of items. [18:12] Let's go for first Wednesday, please, and go on. [18:13] Sure. [18:13] Moving on... [18:13] #Topic vUDS Prep === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: vUDS Prep [18:14] The vUDS is June 10 to June 12. [18:14] Are going to have a roundtable just like the last time? [18:15] #undo [18:15] Removing item from minutes: TOPIC [18:15] #topic vUDS Prep === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: vUDS Prep [18:15] Sorry [18:15] Can't hurt.. Do we have more specific topics to discuss? [18:16] I think it'd be nice if we could entice some developers and designers to attend in the hopes of recruiting their help in keeping us up to date on user-facing changes that we need to document. [18:16] +1 [18:17] We could talk about a Global Doc Jam that could be in the middle cycle. [18:17] godbyk, I agree. We need networking with them to get the docs updated. [18:17] IMO they're too busy [18:18] if someone wants to make the blueprint, we can add ideas to it prior to the vuds session so we have some talking points [18:18] i once had an arrangement to have them just update blueprints whenever something new came up that needed documenting, nothing happened [18:18] (I believe this is what we did last time) [18:18] pmatulis_: Too busy to let the docs team know about news? I'll never accept that. [18:18] I have a couple devs who have emailed after I spoke with rick spencer about this last cycle, I can reach out to them [18:19] Sure, that can work, pleia2. [18:20] And I could work out that blueprint for the ideas. [18:20] belkinsa: Excellent about the blueprint. [18:21] #action belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points [18:21] ACTION: belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points [18:22] #action pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team [18:22] ACTION: pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team [18:22] Are we ready to move on? [18:22] just a sec [18:22] * belkinsa nods [18:23] in these blueprints, by "Doc Team" do you mean desktop and server peeps? [18:23] No, all sub-teams: wiki and manual included. [18:24] so where is this 'developer news' going to end up? [18:24] in our last blueprint we had subsections for each team [18:25] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1311-docteam-roundtable [18:25] pmatulis_: They could just drop emails to the ubuntu-docs list. It doesn't need to be anything complicated. [18:25] Indeed, godbyk has it. [18:25] godbyk: ok, but srsly, they'll just say to subscribe to some mailing list, but let's move on [18:25] pmatulis_: Good point. We need to establish some kind of procedure. [18:26] pmatulis_: No subscription required. If it ends up in the moderation queue we'll find it. [18:26] pmatulis_: I actually have and positive discussions with a couple of devs, so I am more hopeful :) [18:26] Indeed, pmatulis_. godbyk and I are the mods. [18:26] pleia2: glad to hear [18:27] I think he meant that the devs will tell *us* to just subscribe to the mailing lists [18:27] yep [18:27] Ah, I understand. [18:28] I think someone needs to take on an action item for a procedure on this... [18:28] belkinsa: just emailing the list is fine [18:28] Sure. Why not. [18:28] I'm not sure that emailing the list is fine. People forget. [18:29] I can take a procedure action item. [18:29] #action GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team [18:29] ACTION: GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team [18:29] Thanks, GunnarHj. [18:29] yw [18:29] Okay, moving on... [18:31] I think we will skip the Open Help Confectioner (http://openhelpconference.com/) topic and discuss this on the list if needed. [18:31] Is anyone planning to go there? [18:31] #Topic Open Help Conference === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Open Help Conference [18:32] me, of course :) [18:32] I still don't know if I will. [18:32] I'd really like to encourage you guys to do a sprint. they're really good for bringing a team together [18:33] Okay, moving on. [18:33] shaunm: Hmm... I know what sprintf is, but sprint? ;) [18:34] Or not. [18:34] GunnarHj, it's like what we do in the vUDS's. [18:34] GunnarHj: it's where the team comes together for a few days to work on stuff [18:34] and to be social. the social part is important [18:34] shaunm: I'd love to go, but I lack the funds at the moment. [18:34] shaunm: It looks like a cool conference, though. [18:36] I guess it's easier for Americans to go there than for us in Europe.. [18:37] Can we move on? [18:37] shaunm: Is it a 100% IRL event? [18:38] GunnarHj: more or less [18:38] shaunm: It's a pity IMO. [18:38] shaunm and GunnarHj, can do this outside the meeting since we have other items. [18:38] sure [18:39] ok [18:39] Thanks. [18:39] #topic Identifying news that affect the docs === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Identifying news that affect the docs [18:39] Since this was yours, GunnarHj, do you want to talk about it? [18:39] I put up that item, but I think it has been already covered. [18:39] I think so. [18:40] Anyone else? [18:41] Okay, moving on. [18:41] #topic Desktop === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Desktop [18:41] #subtopic Find a driver [18:42] Would this be a better of as a action item that someone can do? [18:43] Suppose it would be easier to find a driver if there were some contributors. Personally I fear that the lack of persons who are ready to make significant contributions will soon be alarming. [18:44] knome, we are talking about finding a driver for the desktop sub-team. [18:44] Bummer, GunnarHj. How many do we have right now? [18:44] * knome keeps hidden under the table [18:46] belkinsa: Well, it depends on how you define "significant". But without dsmythies I see Kevin and myself. [18:46] Normally, I'd volunteer, but I'm going to be busy this year working on my dissertation. [18:48] So what do we do? After all we are talking about a highly visible package that is shipped with each Ubuntu installation. [18:48] if nobody wants to take the driver title, then so be it [18:49] let's focus on getting it better with the resources we have and not stumble with bureaucracy [18:49] If there's no driver, then we just keep muddling along as we have been, I guess. [18:49] increase publicity of docs during the cycle [18:50] knome: The resources we have? Which are those? [18:50] random people around at random times. [18:50] (sorry for sounding so pessimistic, but I am) [18:50] Sorry. [18:50] there are people who want to make the team work better [18:50] Internet died on me. [18:50] do we know to what extent the online help facility is actually used? [18:51] but might not necessarily be able/willing to work with the desktop docs. [18:51] like me. [18:51] we can send a request for the IS [18:51] ...if we want stats/if there are any [18:51] +1 we need stats. [18:51] i remember just stumbling upon it. i'm not a big desktop user mind you [18:51] i'm not talking about online as in web [18:52] but online as "in your computer", the docs package [18:52] right. [18:52] how would we know how much that is used? [18:52] there's no sensible way to track that [18:52] yes, that's what i'm getting at. a poll comes to mind [18:53] I dig that idea pmatulis_/ [18:53] polls are going to be twisted, vocal minority and all [18:53] but sure. [18:53] Who wants to take the action item to make a poll? [18:54] knome: statistics will always be like that, but we can extract valuable information nonetheless [18:54] pmatulis_, i hope so [18:54] Not sure I see the point. It's the same content on the computers and at help.ubuntu.com. [18:54] There's also this: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ [18:54] I'm not sure if it tracks when programs are executed or just if the packages are installed [18:54] godbyk, that only tracks the amount of times the package is installed [18:54] knome: Ah, figures. [18:54] GunnarHj: you don't see the point in having both in-computer and on the web? [18:55] anyway, the poll needs to be conducted somewhere where enough people from all skill levels hang around [18:55] +1 [18:56] pmatulis_: No, what I mean is that it doesn't really matter if people read the docs on the web or on their computers. [18:56] After all I take it that we think a desktop guide is good to have... [18:56] GunnarHj: well, that's not what the poll is about [18:57] pmatulis_: Maybe I missed something. What's the poll about? [18:57] Guys, can we move on and I can give the action item to someone. (Look at the time) [18:57] GunnarHj: the poll would be along the lines of: "Do you read docs from the help facility in your computer?" [18:57] point being, ever since the serverguide ceased to be a package, we have had greater freedom to get stuff done [18:58] pmatulis_: Ok, I see. [18:58] ... [18:58] maybe preceeded by: "Do you even know about the help facility in your computer?" [18:59] pmatulis_: Can't help thinking that there is a big difference between the desktop and the server in this respect. [18:59] GunnarHj: what respect? [19:00] GUYS! [19:00] pmatulis_: The server is not shipped with a desktop. :) [19:00] Can this be talked about on the mailing-list because we are running out time. [19:00] GunnarHj: thanks for reminding me [19:01] pmatulis_: But sure, it would be nice to know to which extent people know about it and use it, of course. [19:01] i'm not sure what the point of the meetings are if not discussing things [19:01] knome: Me neither. [19:01] i understand there are schedules and people need to run, but there's clearly discussions to be had [19:02] The meeting is for discussing things, but I think we only have this room reserved for the hour. [19:02] So we could continue the discussions in #ubuntu-doc. [19:02] we can continue at -doc [19:02] anyone handling the poll then? [19:02] my point is, if the meetings are held once per 2-3 months and are 2 hours long, maybe we need more meetings. [19:02] Sorry guys, my internet is failing. [19:03] Welcome back, belkinsa. If we're out of time in this channel, we can move the discussion to #ubuntu-doc. [19:03] sure. [19:03] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [19:03] Meeting ended Wed May 7 19:03:37 2014 UTC. [19:03] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-07-18.00.moin.txt [19:03] Besides my internet is crap === vladk|offline is now known as vladk