[06:25] <ochosi> morning everyone
[06:26] <elfy> morning ochosi 
[06:26] <ochosi> just to announce that formally, i'll be travelling in a train all day today, so unless i get wifi on the train, i won't be able to participate in tonight's meeting
[06:26] <Unit193> Meeting, right.
[06:26] <ochosi> as that obviously includes the xpl voting, i'm wishing y'all happy voting :)
[06:27]  * Unit193 votes for Unit193.
[06:27] <ochosi> :)
[06:27]  * elfy votes for cake
[06:27] <Unit193> Cake is bad, cookies are good (as is coffee.)
[06:27] <ochosi> yummy, coffee
[06:28] <ochosi> that is what i need next
[06:28] <ochosi> have a fun day everyone!
[09:35] <knome> Unit193, you can't vote yourself unless you have been nominated
[09:35] <knome> Unit193, i can do that for you though >;)
[17:14] <klaipedetis> hi all
[17:21] <brainwash> hello klaipedetis 
[18:05]  * elfy confuses utc and bst again ... 
[18:05] <knome> :D
[18:05] <knome> not yet!
[18:06] <elfy> knome: yea 
[18:07] <bluesabre0> :)
[18:08]  * elfy thinks bluesabre0 is glad someone else made the mistake :p
[18:08] <knome> haha
[18:09] <bluesabre0> nah, got bored of not being connected
[18:10] <knome> lol
[18:10] <elfy> :)
[18:39] <micahg-work> no meeting?
[18:39] <micahg-work> ah, in 20 min
[18:39] <micahg-work> timezones are hard
[18:39] <elfy> I didn't wake up 40 minutes ago - it was a mirage
[18:41] <drc> micahg-work: That's why they included an handy-dandy time converter on the meetings page :)
[18:42] <bluesabre0> the google calendar also works well with tz conversion
[18:42] <micahg-work> I'm usually pretty good with them, lots of things flying at the moment
[18:44] <Unit193> bluesabre0: Yes, yes it does.
[18:50] <bluesabre0> I'm working and on irc on the way-to-the-side side, so I may not be responsive during the meeting
[18:50] <elfy> a bit like normal then :p
[18:51] <bluesabre0> :)
[18:52] <bluesabre0> I try, just a terribly busy human :)
[18:53] <elfy> that's good :)
[18:54] <elfy> lol brainwash 
[18:55] <brainwash> :D
[18:59] <knome> !team | Meeting time!
[18:59] <bluesabre0> o/
[19:00] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  8 19:00:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:00] <elfy> I'm here
[19:00] <knome> #topic Open action items
[19:01] <knome> elfy, did you extend the trello spec?
[19:02] <elfy> yea - as much as I could 
[19:02] <knome> oki
[19:03] <knome> #action new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead 
[19:03] <meetingology> ACTION: new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
[19:03] <knome> #nick new-xpl
[19:03] <knome> that was the action items
[19:03] <knome> #topic Team updates
[19:03] <knome> anything anybody?
[19:03] <knome> #done knome sent a lot of menulibre bugreports
[19:04] <elfy> #info package and image testing has started
[19:04] <bluesabre0> thanks knome
[19:04] <bluesabre0> >o>
[19:04] <elfy> #info package tracker revamped
[19:05] <knome> :)
[19:05] <elfy> they've even got results on them too :p
[19:05] <knome> hehe, good good
[19:05] <bluesabre0> sweet
[19:06] <knome> anything else?
[19:06] <knome> i guess it's still quite quiet
[19:06] <elfy> not from me
[19:06] <knome> #topic Announcements
[19:06] <knome> #info elfy is now a moderator of the xubuntu-devel mailing list
[19:06] <knome> #topic Discussion
[19:06] <knome> #subtopic Create a testing PPA common to -team
[19:07] <knome> #info Postponing
[19:07] <knome> hmm
[19:07] <knome> #undo
[19:07] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[19:07] <knome> #info Carrying on
[19:07] <knome> #subtopic Using the project money (gathered from Linux Identity articles)
[19:07] <knome> #info Dropping from the agenda, will be used as need arises
[19:08] <knome> #subtopic Use a common area for detailed discussion notes (such as Trello)
[19:08] <elfy> knome: how much is this money? bit hard to think of ways to use it without some idea
[19:08] <knome> i think there's about 230 euros
[19:08] <knome> or sth
[19:08] <elfy> ok - ty
[19:08] <knome> i'll have to check the exact amount at home
[19:08] <knome> might be more or less
[19:08] <knome> i really don't remember
[19:08] <elfy> a roundabout figure is good enough :)
[19:09] <knome> yep.
[19:09] <knome> i'll check the actual amount and post that to the new XPL
[19:09] <knome> who can consider how it's best used
[19:09] <knome> anyway, want to discuss trello?
[19:09] <knome> or should we carry that on?
[19:09] <elfy> is there enough people ?
[19:09] <knome> doesn't seem like many people are around
[19:09] <knome> dunno
[19:09] <knome> !team | wakey wakey
[19:09] <elfy> carry it on 
[19:10] <knome> #info Carrying on
[19:10] <jjfrv8-work> o/
[19:10]  * micahg-work is here, sort of
[19:10] <knome> #subtopic More mailing list moderators
[19:10] <elfy> ochosi said he'd not be here 
[19:10] <knome> does anybody else have motivation to moderate lists?
[19:10] <bluesabre0> o/
[19:10] <knome> bluesabre0, both?
[19:10] <Unit193> bluesabre0: Bad timing. :P
[19:10] <knome> hehe.
[19:10] <bluesabre0> I can help with moderation if we create the new list we were discussing
[19:11] <knome> bluesabre0, can you help with the current one if we decide to rather moderate that? :)
[19:11] <knome> and what about -users?
[19:11] <knome> we will need moderators anyway
[19:11] <knome> we currently have 3 for each
[19:11] <bluesabre0> yeah, I can help,  with a hint of what to do exactly :)
[19:11] <elfy> knome: I thought you said -users wasn't an issue?
[19:11] <knome> elfy, not too much
[19:11] <knome> but...
[19:11] <elfy> discard spam mostly bluesabre0 
[19:11] <knome> yeah
[19:12] <elfy> knome: well I don't mind -users as well if there is a need 
[19:12] <knome> and if we decide to make the -devel list team only, send people email that they should send to -users as well :P
[19:12] <knome> #action knome to add elfy to moderators of -users
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to add elfy to moderators of -users
[19:12] <bluesabre0> ok, I can add that to my morning/evening routine
[19:12] <knome> bluesabre0, so both? ;)
[19:12] <bluesabre0> sure
[19:12] <knome> #action knome to add bluesabre to moderators of -devel and -users
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to add bluesabre to moderators of -devel and -users
[19:12] <knome> #nick bluesabre
[19:13] <knome> #topic Planning for milestone images
[19:13] <knome> elfy, was this your item?
[19:13] <elfy> aaah 
[19:13] <Unit193> If it's just removing spam, that'd do-able.
[19:13] <knome> Unit193, want both?
[19:13] <knome> Unit193, -users is more about spam
[19:14] <knome> Unit193, in the future as well, regardless what we decide about the new mailing list
[19:14] <Unit193> knome: No, I don't have anything to do with users if I can help it, might have to know some context for some messages right?
[19:14] <knome> Unit193, not really. just approve things that don't look like spam.
[19:14] <Unit193> Fine then.
[19:15] <knome> both that is? ;)
[19:15] <knome> or just -users?
[19:15] <Unit193> Can always choose to leave it to others if I don't know, both is fine.
[19:15] <knome> #action knome to add Unit193 to moderators of -devel and -users
[19:15] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to add Unit193 to moderators of -devel and -users
[19:16] <elfy> milestones - basically there was talk during the last cycle of not running all the milestones during this cycle, just wanted to get that conversation moving before it's right on top of us 
[19:16] <knome> so, you want to discuss which milestones we'd participate in?
[19:16] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
[19:16] <elfy> I want us to do that yes - but it can wait as there's only a few here
[19:16] <bluesabre0> we usually don't have much in the first milestone
[19:17] <elfy> it depends what people are looking to get out
[19:17] <knome> i think we'd be fine with two betas
[19:17] <elfy> bluesabre0: yea - exaclty
[19:17] <elfy> knome: wfm
[19:17] <knome> milestones just mean freezes
[19:17] <knome> if we land new stuff, we can just decide to test specific daily images
[19:17] <knome> or concentrate on the package testing side
[19:17] <bluesabre0> unless systemd is in at that point, then that might be a consideration for a first round of functional testing
[19:17] <knome> so the exact day of the iso doesn't matter
[19:17] <elfy> yes - but we still call for testing at milestones specifically - I just need to know 
[19:18] <elfy> so the exact day does matter to me ;)
[19:18] <knome> #action Team: When is systemd landing?
[19:18] <meetingology> ACTION: Team: When is systemd landing?
[19:18] <knome> #nick Team
[19:18] <elfy> bluesabre0: I don't think that we need to worry about that at the moment from what I've seen/read
[19:18] <elfy> and I thought that 16.04 was the plan 
[19:19] <knome> elfy, would you take a work item to throw that question to the mailing list?
[19:19] <elfy> yep
[19:19] <knome> well 16.04 might be the target, but it needs to be tested before
[19:19] <knome> so i hope it lands before 16.04 FF :P
[19:19] <brainwash> more like 14.10 :D
[19:19] <elfy> yes - I realise that :)
[19:19] <knome> #action elfy to send a question about participating to milestones to -devel ML
[19:19] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy to send a question about participating to milestones to -devel ML
[19:20] <knome> ok...
[19:20] <knome> #subtopic New mailing list
[19:20] <knome> #info Carrying the discussion on the mailing list, feedback welcome
[19:20] <knome> does anybody want to use a chance to say something now?
[19:21] <elfy> for the record - if this just ends up being using a tag - it will not work
[19:21] <bluesabre0> I'm still in favor of the -team mailing list, particularly to support/supplement meetings
[19:22] <knome> the latest discussion is to make the -devel list much more moderated
[19:22] <elfy> bluesabre0: and keeping -users and -devel?
[19:22] <knome> to practically make that the "team" list
[19:22] <bluesabre0> that would be fine as well
[19:22] <knome> so only allow messages from team
[19:22] <bluesabre0> we don't use the -devel that frequently
[19:22] <knome> no, because it's full of irrelevant information
[19:23] <knome> and the threshold to post gets bigger
[19:23] <knome> i don't want to post anything because sooner or later the threads turn to "please install libreoffice by default"
[19:23] <knome> >__<
[19:24] <bluesabre0> true
[19:24] <bluesabre0> :)
[19:24] <knome> now that i don't have any "real" responsibilities, i'd like to do that even less
[19:25] <knome> but anyway...
[19:25] <Unit193> Easier not to send to the list at all, but that's because I don't like lists.
[19:25] <elfy> and as sure as eggs is eggs I get less interested in posting things there that get ignored
[19:25] <knome> i think i'll draft a proposal
[19:26] <elfy> Unit193: well what do you like to keep in contact with people - because it's not trello :p
[19:26] <knome> #action knome to draft a proposal about the mailing list changes and post it to the -devel ML
[19:26] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to draft a proposal about the mailing list changes and post it to the -devel ML
[19:26] <knome> anything else on this?
[19:26] <elfy> knome: not from me
[19:26] <bluesabre0> nope
[19:26] <knome> #topic New Xubuntu Project Lead
[19:27] <knome> we have two candidates: Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi) and Sean Davis (bluesabre)
[19:27] <Unit193> elfy: Trello is closer, but partly don't like the site, format, or something.  Partly don't want to brake your page, and not 100% sure I know how to use it.
[19:27] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ochosi/XPL2014
[19:27] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/XPL2014
[19:27] <knome> those are the candidate pages
[19:28] <knome> as the nominations were made relatively early, i hope the team members have read them already
[19:29] <elfy> I did
[19:29] <micahg-work> nope
[19:29] <jjfrv8-work> me too
[19:29] <bluesabre0> I'm surprised nobody else applied
[19:29] <knome> micahg-work, well, you will have time now..
[19:29] <micahg-work> knome, reading :)
[19:29] <knome> i've thought about the following procedure for voting:
[19:29] <knome> 1) start voting on the meeting
[19:29]  * micahg-work thought about applying
[19:30] <knome> if either candidate gets 9 votes (>50% of the team) during the meeting, end the vote and announce the new leader
[19:30] <knome> if not, ...
[19:30] <knome> 2) continue the meeting on the mailing list. those who didn't vote on the meeting can vote by sending an informal mail which clearly states their vote
[19:31] <micahg-work> should we be having the vote with one of the candidates in absentia?
[19:31] <knome> he's noticed us of that and is okay with it
[19:31] <knome> i've told both ochosi and bluesabre i could have proxied a "final word" for them if they were not around
[19:31] <knome> neither gave me to say anything for them :)
[19:32] <bluesabre0> but we were both too lazy to offer anything
[19:32] <knome> yep
[19:32] <knome> i don't think it's an issue
[19:32] <knome> if we had 12 nominees, imagine how hard it would have been to run the meeting...
[19:32] <knome> anyway,
[19:32] <knome> if we go to the mailing list, the voting will end at 19UTC tomorrow.
[19:33] <knome> that gives everybody 24 hours to vote
[19:33] <elfy> which it will I guess because there's not many of us here now :)
[19:33] <knome> does anybody think we want to enable private voting on the mailing list?
[19:33] <knome> (elfy: yep)
[19:33] <elfy> well ... 
[19:34] <elfy> there is the ability to vote privately to meetbot here 
[19:34] <knome> we can decide of a trusted person to receive private mail votes.
[19:34] <knome> and to tell what their totals were when the voting is over
[19:34] <Unit193> GPG signed/encrypted to Pasi and Pleia?
[19:34] <bluesabre0> then nobody will vote
[19:34] <bluesabre0> :)
[19:35] <knome> bluesabre0, i'm saying if somebody wants to vote non-publicly
[19:35] <bluesabre0> right
[19:35] <bluesabre0> I was responding to Unit
[19:35] <knome> i think we can't force gpg sign/encrypy
[19:35] <knome> s/y/t/
[19:35] <knome> but me and pleia2 works for me.
[19:35] <bluesabre0> works for me
[19:35] <Unit193> Well, not forced, but a good option IMO.
[19:36] <knome> ok. let's vote on the process
[19:36] <knome> #vote Process for voting: first IRC, then mailing list. Private votes to knome+pleia2.
[19:36] <meetingology> Please vote on: Process for voting: first IRC, then mailing list. Private votes to knome+pleia2.
[19:36] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:36] <knome> -team can vote
[19:36] <knome> +0
[19:36] <meetingology> +0 received from knome
[19:37] <elfy> +1
[19:37] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[19:37] <knome> (abstaining from my own proposal, don't want to skew it)
[19:37] <bluesabre0> +1
[19:37] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre0
[19:37] <micahg-work> +1
[19:37] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
[19:37] <jjfrv8-work> +1
[19:37] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
[19:37] <Unit193> +1
[19:37] <meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
[19:37] <knome> i think that's it.
[19:38] <knome> #endvote
[19:38] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Process for voting: first IRC, then mailing list. Private votes to knome+pleia2.
[19:38] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[19:38] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:38] <knome> Unit193, can you flip a coin?
[19:38] <knome> i've secretly decided who's heads for +1
[19:38] <knome> if it's heads, that person is +1
[19:38] <knome> if it's tails, that person is -1
[19:39] <knome> actually, forget that
[19:39] <knome> just let's do it like this way.
[19:39] <Unit193> tails
[19:39] <knome> #vote Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi) for new XPL?
[19:39] <meetingology> Please vote on: Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi) for new XPL?
[19:39] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:39] <knome> only +1 votes matter.
[19:39] <knome> others are ignored
[19:39] <knome> -team members can vote :)
[19:40] <knome> +1
[19:40] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[19:40] <jjfrv8-work> +1
[19:40] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
[19:40] <bluesabre0> assuming we can vote for both
[19:40] <micahg-work> well, knowing who is +1/-1/+0 might be interesting, but I guess I should've proposed that before :)
[19:40] <knome> you can't.
[19:40] <knome> micahg-work, vote +1 if you want to vote for simon
[19:40] <knome> after this vote, i'll do another one for bluesabre
[19:40] <micahg-work> +1
[19:40] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
[19:40] <knome> err, sean. :)
[19:41] <knome> so you CAN'T VOTE FOR BOTH! :)
[19:41] <knome> only one vote allowed.
[19:41] <elfy> +1
[19:41] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[19:41] <bluesabre0> +1
[19:41] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre0
[19:41] <bluesabre0> :)
[19:41] <knome> Unit193, you done for this vote? :)
[19:41] <Unit193> Yep.
[19:41] <knome> anybody else?
[19:42] <bluesabre0> +0
[19:42] <meetingology> +0 received from bluesabre0
[19:42] <knome> bluesabre0, hmm? :)
[19:42] <bluesabre0> keep it interesting
[19:42] <knome> bluesabre0, hehe
[19:42] <knome> #endvote
[19:42] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi) for new XPL?
[19:42] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
[19:42] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:42] <knome> #info Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi) has 4 (four) votes.
[19:43] <knome> #vote Sean Davis (bluesabre) for new XPL?
[19:43] <meetingology> Please vote on: Sean Davis (bluesabre) for new XPL?
[19:43] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:43] <bluesabre0> +1
[19:43] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre0
[19:43] <knome> note: if you voted for simon, but now vote for sean, your vote will be for sean.
[19:44] <knome> #endvote
[19:44] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Sean Davis (bluesabre) for new XPL?
[19:44] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:44] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:45] <knome> #info Sean Davis (bluesabre) has 2 (two) votes.
[19:45] <knome> we still have 8 members to vote
[19:45] <knome> so it can go any way :)
[19:46] <knome> #action knome to send an email to the -devel list for email voting
[19:46] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to send an email to the -devel list for email voting
[19:46] <knome> #topic Other business
[19:46] <knome> anything else?
[19:47] <bluesabre0> I don't have anything to add
[19:47] <bluesabre0> ... except a calculator
[19:47] <knome> mmh
[19:47] <knome> we will need it
[19:48] <knome> to not make a mistake
[19:51] <knome> ok.
[19:51] <knome> #endmeeting
[19:51] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May  8 19:51:28 2014 UTC.  
[19:51] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-05-08-19.00.moin.txt
[19:51] <knome> will send the mail ASAP
[19:51] <bluesabre0> thanks knome!
[19:51] <knome> then be away for ~1h
[19:51] <elfy> ty knome 
[19:55] <bluesabre0> bbl
[19:59] <knome> can somebody quickly confirm the mail is good and accurate?
[19:59] <knome> i'll boot this laptop now, brb
[20:08] <rowboatnick> yes it checks out
[21:02] <knome> rowboatnick, ta
[21:02] <knome> we a bit longer away
[21:02] <knome> home now
[21:03] <elfy> but apparently the mail didn't make sense ... 
[21:03] <elfy> who's rstreeter
[21:03] <knome> or people just don't read.
[21:03] <elfy> :)
[21:04] <elfy> on the other hand they cared enough to vote :)
[21:04] <knome> yeah, but everybody is interested in power
[21:04] <knome> as long as it doesn't come with responsibility
[21:04] <knome> my 1-year old niece would also vote if give the opportunity.
[21:05] <elfy> try and see the positive side :)
[21:05] <knome> can we do that?
[21:05] <knome> :P
[21:07] <elfy> I think that somebody else's 1 year old is entitled to power - just not any of mine :)
[21:07] <knome> heh
[21:07] <knome> what if i had, say, a 15-year old here?
[21:07] <elfy> same applies 
[21:08] <knome> would i have two votes?
[21:08] <elfy> just not mine ;)
[21:08] <knome> well i'm obviously talking about a rum bottle
[21:08] <knome> what'd you think :P
[21:08] <elfy> I think that you might see two votes - or anything else you might look at :D
[21:08] <knome> hehe
[21:21] <Unit193> Two more.
[21:21]  * drc checks the bottle....
[21:35] <elfy> got some real ones as well 
[21:36] <knome> yep
[21:36] <elfy> and no answer in -offtopic :p
[21:36] <knome> yeah
[21:37] <knome> maybe they don't read anything i write
[21:37] <knome> you can load instantrimshot.com now
[21:37] <elfy> :p
[21:37] <elfy> I have that hidden in my mails to the list :p
[21:38] <drc> You made it too hard, you used paragraphs, capitals and a link (in case you were not sure).
[21:38] <elfy> knome: so - at some point there'll be a new XPL - just want to say thanks for what you've done for Xubuntu 
[21:38]  * knome bows
[21:38] <knome> you're most welcome :)
[21:39] <Unit193> knome: Now get ouuuuuuut!
[21:39] <Unit193> knome: Yep, thanks.  Think you did well.
[21:39]  * elfy wanders off now - night all 
[21:43]  * drc thinks he did well also, but wonders what his Golden Parachute is (noting that the talk about the Project Money this timewas short and sweet :)
[21:46] <knome> Unit193, drc: you're welcome as well
[21:46] <Unit193> Thank goodness it was, that really was good at grinding the meetings to a halt.
[21:47] <knome> ;)
[21:53] <ochosi> evening everyone
[21:54] <ochosi> missed the whole day :)
[21:54] <knome> hey ochosi 
[21:54] <ochosi> i'm about to doze off after a day of travelling
[21:54] <ochosi> just returned home
[22:01] <ochosi> so somehow it's good that nothing is decided yet, cause i won't really be online again before sunday or so