=== back is now known as bakc
[22:36] <MikeRL> The bug I've encountered before related to Print Screen is minor but progress is being made. Thank you all for that. However, a new, nastier issue has cropped up.
[22:37] <MikeRL> I've tried the user channel. Nobody can seem to figure out what the heck is going on. If they can, they're too busy.
[22:42] <MikeRL> Basically, a lot of the time I boot up, (I do have the splash disabled so I can see boot information), boot either freezes towards the end, or Ubuntu boots up, but the keyboard LEDs are all lit up, and the keyboard doesn't work at all.
[22:43] <MikeRL> So I apologize if I sound impatient or I'm interrupting you guys, but if anyone could assist me in finding a log somewhere with the crash and the application causing my issues, I'd certainly file a bug report.
[22:45] <tarpman> MikeRL: keyboard LEDs light up -> sounds like a kernel panic. remove 'quiet splash' from the grub command line so you can see the messages being printed
[22:45] <MikeRL> I Googled quite a bit and I read this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage Some help.
[22:46] <MikeRL> tarpman, Thanks. They don't blink. I can see lightdm and move the mouse.
[22:46] <MikeRL> tarpman, Keyboard just doesn't work.
[22:46] <tarpman> oh! weird.
[22:46] <MikeRL> tarpman, I wonder if that's a separate bug from what's causing the boot to fail. I hope not.
[22:47] <tarpman> MikeRL: hard to say. with the keyboard frozen, best thing to do would be ssh in and look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[22:47] <MikeRL> tarpman, These issues happen fairly often, so can I just grab the Xorg log after a successful boot?
[22:48] <tarpman> MikeRL: yeah, the X logs are rotated each time, so you would want Xorg.0.log.old
[22:48] <tarpman> if the previous boot completed but the keyboard was frozen, that is
[22:48] <tarpman> MikeRL: when the keyboard isn't working, does ctrl-alt-f1 to drop to a console also not work?
[22:48] <MikeRL> tarpman, I do have VNC. Any way to use that before logging in? I can pull up the accessibility keyboard and log in. Then, from my desktop, I could pull up vinagre. Then work from there.
[22:49] <MikeRL> tarpman, Nothing seems to work related to the keyboard. Ditto when my boot freezes. That includes virtual terminal sessions.
[22:49] <tarpman> MikeRL: right, so you could also access /var/log/Xorg.0.log for the current session that way.
[22:49] <MikeRL> tarpman, Do these sound like the same bug or two different bugs?
[22:50] <MikeRL> tarpman, Thanks so far, though. You've been the most help I've gotten in weeks.
[22:50] <tarpman> to me, sounds like two different bugs, but I wouldn't rule out something deeper causing both (maybe a hardware issue, maybe even a kernel bug)
[22:50] <tarpman> MikeRL, based on what you wrote so far, I'd suggest logging in using the on-screen keyboard like you said and immediately doing 'ubuntu-bug xorg' in a terminal
[22:50] <tarpman> while the keyboard is still not working
[22:51] <tarpman> that way the info collector can collect its data in vivo, so to speak
[22:51] <MikeRL> tarpman, Yeah it's been so annoying it's caused me to act like a slight d*** for a few weeks. Because I don't wanna downgrade, I wanna solve this. This is an LTS.
[22:51] <tarpman> bugs can be solved! just takes a LOT of patience.
[22:51] <MikeRL> tarpman, Will do. I will right that down. Is it bad behavior to ask about reporting bugs here?
[22:51] <tarpman> mm, this is technically not really the place for that
[22:52] <tarpman> as you know #ubuntu-user and ask.ubuntu.com are the user support places, and launchpad.net for actually reporting the bugs
[22:52] <MikeRL> tarpman, Thank you for being so nice. Yeah I kind of figured that.
[22:52] <tarpman> well, hope it helps
[22:53] <MikeRL> tarpman, I think I caused heads to spin when I mentioned my issues. Yes I have a Launchpad account.
[22:53] <MikeRL> Anyhow, that will work for the keyboard freeze. But what about the boot hang?
[22:53]  * tarpman scrolls back
[22:54] <tarpman> you said you already have the splash disabled, any interesting messages printed when it hangs?
[22:54] <MikeRL> I could check.
[22:54] <MikeRL> But how would I know what's causing it?
[22:54] <tarpman> if it prints a whole bunch of text and then freezes, you can take a photo and include that in a bug report against the kernel (package 'linux')
[22:55] <MikeRL> I would use LaunchPad, but the thing is this bug is bigger than most that I see, so I didn't know what logs specifically to gather, or what package to report it against.
[22:55] <MikeRL> Under those conditions, if that happens again, where should I go?
[22:55] <tarpman> 'ubuntu-bug linux' to file a bug against the kernel
[22:55] <tarpman> if you're not sure what info you need, or if you have enough info to file a bug, ask.ubuntu.com I think is a good place to ask for clarification
[22:56] <tarpman> I've seen good answers to questions like that before
[22:56] <MikeRL> Because the regular user Ubuntu IRC channels were of no great help. Users tried to help me, but nobody could seem to figure anything ouy.
[22:56] <MikeRL> Would here also work if I've tried for weeks and spent many hours on IRC and came up empty?
[22:56] <MikeRL> And I've Googled. I don't like to suck up time with dumb questions.
[22:57] <tarpman> like I said, this channel is really meant for bugsquad coordination and not for support... I can't in good faith encourage you to discuss your bugs here :|
[22:57] <MikeRL> It's just when a bug is over my head and everyone elses, would you suggest ask.ubuntu.com, followed by here as a last resort? But what if I cannot get an answer anywhere else?
[22:58] <MikeRL> Is there somewhere I can go? Before I get in the way?
[22:59] <tarpman> as far as I know, the next step after ask.ubuntu.com is filing a bug on launchpad, and including every bit of info you can come up with
[22:59] <MikeRL> tarpman, Thing is, what do I do if myself nor any others can assume the correct package?
[22:59] <tarpman> there's #ubuntu-user, there's ask.ubuntu.com, and there's paid support from canonical -- that's all I really know about. maybe others can suggest other venues
[23:00] <tarpman> if you've got the wrong package the bugsquad folks on launchpad are pretty helpful
[23:00] <tarpman> a lot of incoming bugs land on xorg or the kernel, as you might imagine
[23:00] <MikeRL> tarpman, So I would want to try the bugsquad IRC? Do they have a channel?
[23:00] <tarpman> welcome to #ubuntu-bugs, see the topic :)
[23:01] <tarpman> a channel for discussing bug reports on launchpad, not so much the bugs themselves ;)
[23:04] <MikeRL> tarpman, But say I have issues determining the package. Any IRC channels for that?
[23:05] <MikeRL> tarpman, The issue was I couldn't determine the package, and nobody on the user channels could, either.
[23:05] <tarpman> MikeRL: if #ubuntu-user can't help you, post as much info as you can in a question on ask.ubuntu.com, and sure, paste a link here
[23:06] <tarpman> argh. I keep typing "#ubuntu-user", but it's actually "#ubuntu" -- ubuntu-user is the mailing list.
[23:06] <MikeRL> tarpman, so I can start with the user channels, then go to ask.ubuntu.com, and link here if I still cannot resolve it? Good.
[23:07] <tarpman> sounds reasonable to me. so, how about that /var/log/Xorg.0.log :)
[23:07] <MikeRL> I mean some stuff is just over everyone's head. I believe this is the first time in using Ubuntu for five years I had issues determining the bug's source. Now I know. Thank you.
[23:08] <MikeRL> tarpman, I can get it, but it will take a while to reproduce. You mind if I PM you once the reports are up?
[23:08] <MikeRL> tarpman, Believe it or not, the last boot succeeded.
[23:09] <tarpman> I might or might not be around, but you're welcome to -- I'll respond whenever I see it (my irc stays open when I leave)
[23:09] <MikeRL> tarpman, Thank you. Mind if I add you to the Friends list? I won't pester. You've done more than enough so far.
[23:10] <tarpman> what's a Friends list o_o
[23:10] <MikeRL> There's one on Hexchat.
[23:11] <MikeRL> At least that's what HexChat calls it.
[23:11] <tarpman> neat
[23:13] <MikeRL> I gotta eat dinner now. Thank you and I'll see you later.
[23:13] <tarpman> cheers, good luck solving your bugs!
[23:17] <MikeRL> tarpman, Forgot one last thing. Upon a reboot after the kernel issue, what should I do?
[23:17] <MikeRL> Run ubuntu-bug linux?
[23:17] <MikeRL> I know to snap a picture.
[23:18] <MikeRL> Answer when available. That's the last question, and I have a summary in a text document saved. I'll print it for good measure.
[23:19] <tarpman> if you get a kernel splat (bunch of messages, traceback, that sort of thing) on console, yeah
[23:19] <tarpman> if not... well, depends on what you get :)
[23:22] <MikeRL> tarpman, Thank you. You're free now (your choice to help) Don't think I have a single question left. Helping on a Sunday shows dedication. Perhaps I could buy you a coffee, if you want.
[23:23] <tarpman> if my chatting in irc eventually saves a real kernel developer some time because you're able to file a useful bug report, that's a good reward for me
[23:24] <MikeRL> tarpman, Well, thank you for servicing the community. Once this is resolved, I'll likely donate again to Ubuntu. I'd donate to you, and I'll donate to them again, (as I have before) but these bugs gotta go first.
[23:24] <MikeRL> Or at least be on the path to going bye-bye.
[23:25] <MikeRL> Beause having to use Windows more than normal is bad juju for me. I don't like the thing, despite MS improving it recently. Also, is it just me or is Windows more power hungry than Linux as of late?
[23:25] <MikeRL> Must've been serious power management improvements put into Linux over the past few years.