[08:15]  * ochosi notest that even weeks after the release, there has been no single complaint about the removal of ibus...
[08:18]  * elfy compares that to the likely result of leaving it in - so that's a win :p
[08:19] <Unit193> Seems like it messes with chromium, from what I ehar.
[08:19] <elfy> then people can reinstall ibus if they need it - but chromium isn't anything I would worry about 
[08:20] <Unit193> No, I mean that ibus messes with chromium if you have both, and ditto on the second bit. :P
[08:20] <ochosi> looking at errors.ubuntu.com, chromium is a bit messed up currently
[08:30] <ochosi> knome: how long until we can publish the article on locking? (just asking cause right now there's someone again in #x asking for answers that are given in it)
[08:43] <jhenke> hi folks
[08:46] <ochosi> hey jhenke 
[08:46] <ochosi> btw, didn't you want some stuff to work on? :)
[08:49] <ochosi> there are still some 14.04 issues that need addressing
[09:10] <jhenke> sadly I already have too much other stuff to do right now, thats also why I have been here not so regulary the last week
[09:15] <jhenke> I try to be of some help later when I have some more room again
[09:23] <knome> ochosi, hrhr
[09:23] <knome> ochosi, don't expect anything from me now, i'm not xpl :P
[09:24] <knome> ochosi, i'll have to talk with pleia2, then do the changes (won't take much time as soon as i get to it) and then get them ready for the IS.
[09:25] <knome> ochosi, re: question on #xubuntu right now, can light-locker get "just" the wallpaper color if there is no wallpaper?
[09:27] <knome> ochosi, also, ping me when you get vback
[09:27] <knome> -v
[09:27] <knome> i'm around for probably an hour or so, then back late today
[09:51] <knome> ok, i'm off
[09:51] <knome> ochosi, ping me later anyway :)
[09:55] <ochosi> knome: ping
[09:55] <ochosi> jhenke: okeydokey, feel free to get in touch anytime
[10:03] <ochosi> knome: just read up on the question on #x, that's lightdm-gtk-greeter, not the locker. and it just takes what accountsservice gives you, which is always a wallpaper and never a color.
[10:03] <ochosi> and the fallback is the system default, which is the xubuntu wallpaper
[10:04] <ochosi> unless you change it in the config file to a color
[10:10] <ochosi> ali1234: quick question, you mentioned a fix/workaround for xfsettingd always miscalculating the monitor count by 1 (seems to be happening with nvidia propr drivers at least), do you still have that anywhere?
[10:24] <elfy> ibus is being installed in default xubuntu again
[10:24] <elfy> ibus is also being forced into an existing utopic install after an update/grade
[10:26] <elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20140511/utopic-desktop-i386.manifest
[10:33] <ochosi> aha, dependency chain or what being the reason for that?
[10:34] <elfy> no idea - I've just stopped spitting feathers :(
[10:34] <elfy> no real idea even how to know tbh 
[10:35] <elfy> I don't see why dependency though - I purged it and it just removed itself
[10:40] <ochosi> yeah, but it can still be recommended by something we install
[10:40] <ochosi> and hence get pulled but be removeable
[10:40] <ochosi> Unit193: care to take a look why that ^ happens?
[10:40] <elfy> I thought we dealt with that 
[10:42] <ochosi> it can always happen that recommends of packages change and then pull in unexpected stuff
[10:43] <elfy> yea 
[10:43] <elfy> probably what happened the first time around
[10:43] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/rLzAr2ZV
[10:43] <ochosi> yup, can't hurt to investigate soon enough
[10:44] <elfy> that's the log with the offending (and it does offend me ;) ) install of it 
[10:44] <elfy> wouldn't be so much of a pita if the thing actually worked with keyboard layouts :)
[10:44] <ochosi> wait, gnome-settings-daemon? :(
[10:51] <elfy> well that certainly recommends ibus
[10:51] <ochosi> yeah, and it's certainly something we don't want
[10:52] <ochosi> so i guess we gotta follow the breadcrumbs from there onwards
[10:53] <elfy> I don't know where to look - I know there is somewhere - but didn't keep a link to it :p
[10:58] <elfy> ochosi: do you want me to do a bug for this so we can keep tabs on it
[10:59] <ochosi> yeah, we should probably set up a utopic-xubuntu-bugs blueprint and then link that bugreport there too
[10:59] <ochosi> would be great if you could do that
[10:59] <ochosi> currently trying to look into our suspend/lid-close/lock bug again...
[10:59] <elfy> funnily you should mention the blueprint - I did one :p
[11:00] <elfy> ochosi: what to report it against though - not sure - I assume not ibus, but one of our's
[11:00] <ochosi> yeah, good question...
[11:03] <ochosi> elfy: for the time being, xubuntu-meta i guess
[11:04] <elfy> ok - I'll do that - we can deal with it later, but at least it will be on the list 
[11:07] <ochosi> exactly, thanks
[11:07] <elfy> ochosi: ok - all done 
[11:07] <elfy> bug 1318319
[11:08] <ochosi> and that blueprint also exists already you said?
[11:13] <elfy> I guess you should know now :p
[11:14] <elfy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-bugs and  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-qa
[11:19] <elfy> I thought it would help whoever ended up being xpl not having to do all the blueprints :p
[11:24] <ochosi> thanks :)
[11:24] <ochosi> yes, it does
[11:25] <ochosi> we should list them all on some wiki page so ppl can find them more easily
[11:25] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap something perhaps 
[11:26] <elfy> in the utopic header - link the main blueprint when we have it - the others will link from that? 
[11:43] <bluesabre> morning everyone
[11:43] <elfy> morning bluesabre 
[11:43] <bluesabre> hows it going?
[11:44] <elfy> going well thanks :)
[11:47] <lderan> elfy, ping
[11:48] <elfy> bluesabre: http://pastebin.com/P7WDAzNd - was looking at things to playt music with - noticed that parole was almost constantly wanting ~15% CPU
[11:48] <elfy> lderan: pong 
[11:49] <elfy> lderan: so currently on the qa blueprint I've got 'Target specific apps for autopilot during this cycle'
[11:49] <lderan> okay
[11:50] <elfy> what would be good I think is for us to actually go for gtk3 apps - they appear to be more likely to get somewhere - is that right?
[11:50] <lderan> yeah
[11:50] <lderan> theres not much we can do with the others
[11:51] <elfy> ok 
[11:51] <elfy> so if the list is right - there are 6 gtk3 apps without a test - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Autopilot
[11:52] <elfy> as it appears that however often we ask if anyone is interested the answer is tumbleweed ...
[11:52] <elfy> are you going to have time to get any of those done? 
[11:53] <elfy> because no-one's coming forward to join in 
[11:53] <elfy> I'd help if I could 
[11:53] <bluesabre> elfy, I can confirm that the cpu usage does seem high
[11:53] <lderan> i will do them next week, i have gotten my afternoons back from work for the next 2 weeks \o/
[11:53] <bluesabre> want to report a bug to the bugzilla?
[11:53] <lderan> then im on holiday for a week after that
[11:54] <elfy> lderan: there's no rush - I'd rather know that we can get 1 done definitely - if you see where I'm going 
[11:54] <lderan> yeah i do, i would like to get them done while i know i have the time to do them :)
[11:55] <elfy> lderan: change that blueprint line to reflect that you're doing it - maybe add a line for which you intend to do
[11:55] <elfy> please :)
[11:55] <lderan> sure thing :)
[11:55] <elfy> awesome
[11:55]  * elfy aims to get QA blueprint all DONE by end of May :p
[11:56] <lderan> \o/
[11:56] <elfy> bluesabre: ok 
[11:56] <bluesabre> thanks
[11:57] <bluesabre> we'll tackle the resource usage this cycle since we're pretty happy with the rest of the app
[11:57] <elfy> bluesabre: do we need a LP one as well - we can track it on blueprint then ?
[11:57] <bluesabre> sure, and then we can link the lp one to the xfce one
[11:57] <elfy> yep - I'll go do that then
[11:58] <bluesabre> excellent, thanks elfy
[11:58] <elfy> lderan: ok - so anything else that you can think of we need to worry about blueprint wise?
[11:59] <lderan> can't think of anything but will let you know if i do
[11:59] <elfy> and please keep trello current - easier to put detail there imo 
[12:00] <elfy> ok - thanks - I'll leave you to have a good day then :)
[12:00] <lderan> will do
[12:00] <lderan> thanks :)
[12:08] <elfy> bluesabre: bug 1318326
[12:08] <bluesabre> thanks elfy :)
[12:08] <elfy> and it's on the u bug blueprint as well 
[12:09] <elfy> 2 bugs today \o/ 
[12:09] <bluesabre> I'm wrapping up the main menulibre bugs and preparing for a new release today (that should hit T and U)
[12:09] <bluesabre> wewp
[12:09] <elfy> woohoo 
[12:12] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[12:12] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[12:13] <ochosi> btw, i looked into xdg-screensaver a bit today
[12:13] <ochosi> it's very odd, it *should* actually work and inhibit the screensaver even with the X11 extension
[12:13] <ochosi> you can look into /usr/bin/xdg-screensaver
[12:13] <bluesabre> I find a lot of *shoulds* when working with xdg-*
[12:14] <ochosi> it's a fairly simplistic script that checks for what screensavers are installed
[12:14] <ochosi> a bit like xflock in fact
[12:18] <bluesabre> hm
[12:19] <ochosi> lots of ifs and stuff
[12:19]  * elfy sits down to watch people running in circles 
[12:19] <elfy> wish I could help ;)
[12:19] <bluesabre> seems like you might want to start by expanding detectDE
[12:19] <ochosi> elfy: you already did the blueprint, that's great stuff tbh
[12:20] <ochosi> elfy: you can also set up the other bps and email the team leads about filling them ;)
[12:21] <bluesabre> yeah, seems like we just need to add light-locker support in there
[12:21] <elfy> ochosi: I can if you want - sitting here thinking about making the rest of the day as lazy as the morning was :)
[12:21] <ochosi> yup, but honestly as it doesn't detect it, it *should* do the right thing (i.e. modify the xset props)
[12:21] <bluesabre> towards the bottom:
[12:21] <bluesabre> detectDE
[12:21] <bluesabre> # Consider "xscreensaver" a separate DE
[12:21] <bluesabre> xscreensaver-command -version 2> /dev/null | grep XScreenSaver > /dev/null && DE="xscreensaver"
[12:21] <bluesabre> # Consider "gnome-screensaver" a separate DE
[12:21] <ochosi> elfy: hehe, thanks, that'd be great!
[12:21] <bluesabre> gnome-screensaver-command -q > /dev/null 2>&1 && DE="gnome_screensaver"
[12:21] <bluesabre> yeah
[12:22] <bluesabre> but there seems to be a difference between controlling just the xscreensaver
[12:23] <bluesabre> I'd add some output to the if/else chain and figure out where its landing
[12:26] <elfy> bluesabre: obviously a reason for it - but cpu usage in parole when watching a video is nowhere near the usage with audio - added it to the bug report
[12:26] <bluesabre> cool, that will help figure out whats going in
[12:27] <bluesabre> and thinking about it now, I think I might know where all the cpu cycles come from
[12:27] <elfy> mmm - added it to both bugzilla and LP - but doesn't LP grab comments from the outside source? probably a waste of time lol 
[12:27] <ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
[12:29] <bluesabre> yeah, LP will automatically display external comments after a while
[12:29] <ochosi> i mean adding a special case for light-locker should also work...
[12:29] <ochosi> and i hope this would not only fix parole, but all other players too
[12:29] <bluesabre> yeah, hopefully :)
[12:30] <ochosi> well i don't think xscreensaver does anything else about it, tbh
[12:30] <ochosi> btw, reviewed and merged that greeter MR today
[12:31] <bluesabre> it does a bit... screensaver_xscreensaver()
[12:31] <bluesabre> thanks for that ochosi
[12:31] <ochosi> yeah, i meant: xscreensaver itself doesn't do anything in terms of listening to player-signals itself
[12:31] <ochosi> whoops, that was a bit too much itself )
[12:31] <ochosi> :)
[12:32] <ochosi> so i guess other players also at least try xdg-screensaver
[12:32] <elfy> in itself that's not too much too worry about :p
[12:32] <ochosi> hehe, thanks elfy :)
[12:33] <bluesabre> :)
[12:36] <elfy> ochosi: so - I need to put someone in the Approver box for these things - that is you ;)
[12:36] <ochosi> what approver box?
[12:36] <elfy> in the blueprint
[12:36] <elfy> it was knome - but he's escaped now ;)
[12:37] <elfy> at the moment it's not really any issue as they're not approved/registered by -release 
[12:38] <elfy> or I can put my name in and then when you approve them you can change it - maybe that way would be better, so you know what you have approved
[12:38] <ochosi> sounds good to me!
[12:38] <elfy> ok
[12:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, how are you debugging that at the moment?
[12:46] <bluesabre> debugging...?
[12:46] <elfy> ochosi: do you want me to do roadmap and new features blueprint as well ?
[12:46] <bluesabre> throwing lots of code at menulibre
[12:46] <bluesabre> seeing what sticks
[12:46] <bluesabre> like spaghetti noodles
[12:46] <ochosi> oh, i thought you were looking at xdg-screensaver :)
[12:47] <bluesabre> oh, I just glanced at it
[12:47] <bluesabre> :)
[12:47] <bluesabre> you're the light-locker dev ;)
[12:47] <ochosi> elfy: yup, please
[12:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: awwwwh :) this isn't light-locker related though
[12:47] <ochosi> the same should happen to anyone who doesn't use xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver
[12:47] <bluesabre> it kind of is ;)
[12:48] <ochosi> i'm currently looking into the lid-close problem
[12:48] <bluesabre> how does unity handle it?
[12:48] <ochosi> lid-close?
[12:48] <bluesabre> not locking
[12:49] <ochosi> not locking?
[12:49] <ochosi> sorry, you lost me there
[12:49] <bluesabre> when playing a bideo
[12:49] <bluesabre> *video
[12:49] <ochosi> my guess is this:
[12:49] <bluesabre> not activating the screensaver that is
[12:49] <ochosi> players handle it by calling xdg-screensaver
[12:49] <ochosi> but i dunno
[12:50] <ochosi> currently #u-desktop is dead so i can't ask there
[12:50] <bluesabre> since they no longer use gnome-screensaver, I'd be interesting in looking at the unity-locker code
[12:50] <ochosi> maybe they also handle it by gnome/unity-settings-daemon
[12:50] <bluesabre> ah
[12:50] <bluesabre> true
[12:50] <bluesabre> cheaters
[12:50] <ochosi> as they do with most of their stuff
[12:50] <ochosi> it could be useful being able to "plug in" stuff into xfsettingsd
[12:51] <ochosi> anyway, that's a different story
[12:52] <ochosi> lemme know when you have time, then we can also look into the xdg-screensaver thing together
[12:52] <ochosi> i'll look at xfpm meanwhile
[12:54] <bluesabre> ok
[12:55] <bluesabre> hopefully I'll actually be around today
[12:55] <bluesabre> didn't get home til 3am last night, so my wife should be asleep until noon
[12:55] <bluesabre> :)
[12:57] <ochosi> huhu
[12:57] <ochosi> so no photo-shoot today i suppose :)
[13:12] <elfy> ochosi: you has mail 
[13:12] <ochosi> yup, already acted on one of them
[13:12] <elfy> they are all built now 
[13:12] <ochosi> thans
[13:12] <ochosi> ks
[13:12] <elfy> I meant from me :D 
[13:13] <ochosi> oh :)
[13:13] <ochosi> hehe
[13:13] <ochosi> haven't received that one yet then
[13:13] <elfy> I really don't know what mail you have :p
[13:13] <elfy> I just sent it :)
[13:13] <ochosi> good good
[13:15] <elfy> no idea what to do with them afterwards - I know that -release do something eventually :)
[13:15] <elfy> and I would guess that the roadmap one has all the others as dependencies
[13:16] <ochosi> will talk to knome about it
[13:17] <elfy> yea
[13:17] <ochosi> luckily the next release will not bring so many drastic changes and not such a high amount of workitems as the last
[13:17] <elfy> indeed
[13:32] <ochosi> elfy: linked up the blueprints to the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-flavor-xubuntu now
[13:33] <elfy> thanks :)
[13:33] <ochosi> well, thank you ;)
[13:34] <elfy> they just need fleshing out now then :)
[13:34] <ochosi> indeed
[13:34] <elfy> except the bugs one - we don't want that one to be fleshed out :D
[13:35] <ochosi> huhu
[13:58] <ochosi> bluesabre: still around?
[13:58] <bluesabre> ochosi: yup
[13:59] <ochosi> sooo
[13:59] <ochosi> it looks like we have a real promising fix for the lid-close problem
[13:59] <ochosi> but i guess lls will need another update for that as well
[14:00] <ochosi> cause light-locker needs to handle lock-on-suspend again
[14:00] <bluesabre> yay!
[14:01] <ochosi> but now that might create another headache
[14:01] <ochosi> cause light-locker then somehow needs to "secretly" tell xfpm *not* to lock on suspend
[14:03] <bluesabre> yay
[14:03] <ochosi> :>
[14:03] <bluesabre> (without the !)
[14:04] <ochosi> actually eric just said that it worked for him
[14:04] <ochosi> so maybe it'll just be fine
[14:04] <ochosi> we need to just tell light-locker-settings to always add the "--lock-on-suspend" again when that option is set in lls
[14:04] <ochosi> that should suffice
[14:04]  * ochosi knocks on wood
[14:05] <elfy> ow :(
[14:05] <elfy> that's my head
[14:05] <ochosi> bluesabre: could i ask you to do a PPA upload of the fixed version? (will land in github)
[14:05] <bluesabre> ochosi: sure thing
[14:05] <ochosi> and ideally a light-locker-settings version with that tiny change included
[14:05] <ochosi> then we can really ask ppl to test it
[14:06] <bluesabre> commit that change to trunk :)
[14:06] <bluesabre> or I'll do it shortly
[14:06] <bluesabre> almost finished fixing menulibre
[14:06] <ochosi> yay!
[14:06] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, it's all a bit confusing and complicated, hopefully we can clean this up in the next releases
[14:07] <elfy> yep
[14:07] <elfy> but I was referring to you knocking on wood :p
[14:07] <ochosi> haha, ok
[14:07] <ochosi> didn't get that at first
[14:07]  * elfy thinks that this new team PPA thing will be really useful 
[14:08] <ochosi> yup
[14:09] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, here goes the xfpm thingy we need: https://github.com/EricKoegel/xfce4-power-manager/commit/21b8e5abf4e5f93c28cb964b4618b9b509780951
[14:09] <bluesabre> did we ever finalize the team ppa idea?
[14:09] <ochosi> we planned to talk about it in a meeting
[14:09] <ochosi> but the discussion was heading the way of using the xubuntu-dev PPA
[14:09] <elfy> go carried over from last weeks meeting
[14:10] <ochosi> so packages would need approval from someone in xubuntu-dev
[14:10] <elfy> I thought we were looking at having 2 ?
[14:10] <ochosi> maybe, yeah
[14:10] <bluesabre> ok, I'll create the package in my own ppa for now until thats cleared up
[14:10] <elfy> one for testing things with
[14:10] <ochosi> one for bugfix, one for new apps
[14:10] <ochosi> that was the main idea
[14:10] <elfy> yea
[14:10] <elfy> that makes sense to me 
[14:13] <ochosi> we could also do PPAs controlled by x-dev that carry the release number they're for in the name
[14:13] <ochosi> so ppl don't get confused easily
[14:13] <ochosi> e.g. xubuntu-staging-14-10
[14:16] <elfy> yep
[14:16] <ochosi> xubuntu-extras-14-10
[14:16] <ochosi> or something like that
[14:16] <ochosi> Unit193: thoughts ^ ?
[14:31] <bluesabre> >.<
[14:32] <bluesabre> wine apps make everything more difficult
[14:32] <bluesabre> their desktop files are installed with spaces
[14:32] <bluesabre> it seems xdg-menu-install doesn't properly parse spaces
[14:33] <ochosi> meh
[14:33] <bluesabre> er, xdg-desktop-menu install
[14:33] <ochosi> stupid xdg stuff
[14:33] <bluesabre> xdg-desktop-menu uninstall doesn't work at all, just freezes
[14:33] <bluesabre> need to report these bugs
[14:34] <bluesabre> and work around them in menulibre
[14:35] <ochosi> brainwash: wanna test a fix for the lock-suspend problem?
[14:36] <brainwash> ochosi: I cannot test it cause I'm not affected by the problem :/
[14:37] <bluesabre> bbiab
[14:37] <brainwash> well, I can test it, but I cannot confirm if it fixes the problem :)
[14:37] <ochosi> brainwash: you mean lid close +lock+suspend works fine for you? with the default 14.04 setup?
[14:38] <brainwash> still 13.10 here
[14:39] <brainwash> elfy will gladly test it
[14:40] <brainwash> in case the lid is still functional from all the previous testing :)
[14:40]  * elfy probably isn't sure what state the thing is in ... 
[14:49] <brainwash> I will have to upgrade my test system to utopic, roughly 7500 packages
[14:49] <brainwash> this will take a while
[14:49] <brainwash> slow connection + very very slow hdd
[14:50] <brainwash> elfy: does parole also eat your cpu resources in 14.04?
[14:53] <OvenWerk1> brainwash: parole is using 7% on 14.04 with all my cpus sitting at 800Mhz (ondemand)
[14:54] <brainwash> appears to be quite high
[14:54] <brainwash> sound only, right?
[14:55] <OvenWerk1> Audio going the long way through pulse then jack.
[14:55] <brainwash> but those are separate processes
[14:55] <OvenWerk1> parole on its own is 4.3%
[14:56] <brainwash> ah
[14:56] <brainwash> that's a different story then
[14:56] <elfy> brainwash: no idea of the top of my head - I don't use it generally and I've not booted 14.04 to use for a while now
[14:57] <brainwash> elfy: ok, maybe we'll get more information later on
[14:57] <elfy> I only noticed it this morning
[14:58] <brainwash> I see
[14:58] <brainwash> and you've already assigned it to the 14.10 bugs blueprint
[15:00] <elfy> yes
[15:01] <elfy> why?
[15:04] <bluesabre> the resource usage is probably a draw function that's being rapidly fired
[15:05] <bluesabre> since its only with the audio portion
[15:07] <bluesabre> and we have custom drawing going on
[15:08] <bluesabre> that's what the issue was with the greeter earlier
[15:10] <elfy> ochosi: this laptop is now in a position where it is broken with suspend and lid-close again
[15:46] <ochosi> elfy: okeyokey, depending on how long it takes bluesabre to set the PPA up, we'll have something to test for you :)
[15:50] <elfy> ok noss
[15:50] <elfy> boss even
[15:50] <ochosi> bluesabre: maybe we can do this part of parole with gtkoverlay now?
[16:08] <bluesabre> ochosi: which part? we are using gtkoverlay
[16:09] <bluesabre> going to grab lunch, will take care of the ppa when I get back
[16:15] <ochosi> bluesabre: i meant the audio-info box, iirc that wasn't gtkoverlay
[16:46] <ochosi> bbl
[16:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, the normal X11 screensaver code in xdg-screensaver seems to be duplicated. no idea why. maybe that's why it doesn't work..
[19:47] <knome> ochosi, you around?