| pitti | Good morning | 05:23 |
|---|---|---|
| TheMuso | pitti: Good morning. | 05:23 |
| pitti | hey TheMuso, long time no see! how are you? | 05:23 |
| TheMuso | pitti: Very well thanks, yourself | 05:23 |
| TheMuso | ? | 05:23 |
| pitti | TheMuso: quite fine, thanks; shepherding distro tests these days, and refining the tools for that :) | 05:24 |
| TheMuso | pitti: Will you be in Malta? | 05:27 |
| pitti | TheMuso: yes I will, in the second week | 05:27 |
| TheMuso | Thats the last week of May right? I'll be there in the last week of May. | 05:28 |
| pitti | right, me too; 23rd to 30st | 05:28 |
| TheMuso | Yeah same as me, I'll probably see you around at some point. | 05:29 |
| darkxst | pitti, are you familiar with the sbuild launchpad stuff? | 07:46 |
| darkxst | is it possible to add aliases to that will pull in PPA's? | 07:46 |
| pitti | darkxst: I'm fairly familiar with sbuild, and I know that LP uses it; what do you mean? | 07:46 |
| pitti | oh | 07:46 |
| pitti | I saw a G+ post not too long ago about someone who wrote clever hooks | 07:46 |
| pitti | darkxst: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherHalseRogers/posts/24T9xSgTMEF | 07:49 |
| pitti | darkxst: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+St%C3%A9phaneGraber/posts/KPTfpLKKF8J | 07:49 |
| pitti | those might be useful | 07:49 |
| darkxst | pitti, yeh I am using the sbuild-launchpad-chroot | 07:51 |
| pitti | but then again, sbuild hooks are rather simple to write | 07:52 |
| darkxst | pitti, right, the alias' are defined in a horrible shell script | 07:54 |
| darkxst | I somehow assumed they would be pulled from lp | 07:54 |
| pitti | darkxst: yes, that's supposed to download LP's schroot tarballs | 07:59 |
| seb128 | good morning desktopers! | 08:06 |
| didrocks | hey seb128! | 08:07 |
| seb128 | didrocks, lut ;-) | 08:07 |
| Laney | hallo | 08:07 |
| seb128 | hey Laney, how are you? | 08:08 |
| darkxst | pitti, yes it downloads a tarball, but seems the actual apt sources are just generated by lots of awk-ish | 08:08 |
| mvo | seb128: hi, do you happen to know what "CRITICAL - findToken(): disabled account "ubuntuone" 1 " means in ubuntu-system-settings? I'm trying to add my u1 account on my n4 with utopic and its grayed out :/ | 08:14 |
| didrocks | hey Laney! | 08:14 |
| Laney | hey seb128 & didrocks | 08:15 |
| mvo | seb128: it looks just like when I was playing with the u8/mir session on the desktop, not sure though the log message is the same. any hints how I can still add my u1 account on the phone? I need it to to the tests for a new click release | 08:15 |
| Laney | I'm alright thanks, you? | 08:15 |
| pitti | hey seb128 | 08:15 |
| * pitti waves to didrocks and Laney too | 08:15 | |
| didrocks | I'm good, thanks! still a little bit cold here, but at least sunny | 08:15 |
| didrocks | guten morgen pitti :) | 08:15 |
| Laney | howdy pitti | 08:15 |
| Laney | we're supposed to have 17° and sun today | 08:16 |
| Laney | luxury | 08:16 |
| mvo | hey Laney and didrocks | 08:17 |
| didrocks | hey mvo! | 08:17 |
| didrocks | Laney: waow ;) | 08:17 |
| seb128 | mvo, hey, no, try asking mardy? | 08:17 |
| seb128 | hey pitti | 08:17 |
| seb128 | Laney, what happened to the rain?! | 08:18 |
| Laney | I told its mum that it was being mean to me and it got sent home | 08:18 |
| seb128 | hehe | 08:18 |
| seb128 | I hope it doesn't leave around here | 08:19 |
| seb128 | so far we have sun here as well at least ;-) | 08:19 |
| mlankhorst | rickspencer3: your boot failure, does it fail to boot or does it not boot into xorg? | 10:28 |
| rickspencer3 | mlankhorst, I think it fails to boot into xorg | 10:29 |
| mlankhorst | can you try utopic? it has an updated mesa | 10:30 |
| mlankhorst | from what i can tell your pc should just work, does ssh work? | 10:32 |
| mlankhorst | if so, try apport-collect -p xorg 1319149 | 10:35 |
| mlankhorst | rickspencer3: for the touchscreen you need qtbase-opensource-src from the sru queue :-) | 10:42 |
| rickspencer3 | mlankhorst, I could not try utopic, as I had a lot of trouble getting the installer o run | 10:42 |
| rickspencer3 | mlankhorst, unfortunately, I won't be able to debug much today, I have calls all day | 10:43 |
| mlankhorst | ok you can work on utopic, that's fine | 10:43 |
| rickspencer3 | mlankhorst, you are certain it will work utopic? | 10:44 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm not so sure | 10:44 |
| mlankhorst | neither | 10:44 |
| mlankhorst | what exactly is the issue? | 10:44 |
| rickspencer3 | mlankhorst, first, uniquity does not load 9 times out of 10 | 10:44 |
| rickspencer3 | it stops at the screen with Ubuntu and the dots | 10:45 |
| rickspencer3 | then, when I did get Trusty to install ... | 10:45 |
| rickspencer3 | it booted once or twice, but also several times booted to a black screen | 10:45 |
| rickspencer3 | though I could boot into recovery mode | 10:45 |
| mlankhorst | ok | 10:45 |
| === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch | ||
| rickspencer3 | good morning desktoppers! | 10:55 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, didrocks, and others in Europe who are up o/ | 10:55 |
| Sweet5hark | moin! | 10:55 |
| rickspencer3 | Sweet5hark, | 10:55 |
| rickspencer3 | ! | 10:55 |
| rickspencer3 | moin you say? | 10:55 |
| rickspencer3 | ===coffee activity=== | 10:55 |
| rickspencer3 | * Action: rickspencer3 to sip coffee | 10:56 |
| Sweet5hark | rickspencer3: Its a universal greeting in northern germany. ;) | 10:56 |
| rickspencer3 | Sweet5hark, nice to know! | 10:57 |
| * rickspencer3 presumes Sweet5hark refers to "moin" and not * to sip coffee | 10:57 | |
| Sweet5hark | indeed. | 10:57 |
| didrocks | hey rickspencer3! | 10:58 |
| * Sweet5hark sips his sugar-and-caffeine based coffee surrogate ... | 10:58 | |
| rickspencer3 | bonjour didrocks | 10:59 |
| * rickspencer3 wonders why seb128 is avoiding him | 11:01 | |
| rickspencer3 | must be trying to figure out a way to get the Unity 8/Mir Desktop image off the plans | 11:02 |
| * rickspencer3 starts escalating the requirements | 11:02 | |
| Laney | must self drive my car | 11:03 |
| Laney | actually we have some prelimenary images there | 11:04 |
| Laney | next step is that (IIRC) seb128 was going to boot one of them on his machine and see what more stuff we need to add to get it to work | 11:04 |
| Laney | then see about getting it built in the normal way with dailies | 11:04 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, salut | 11:11 |
| rickspencer3 | moin, seb128 | 11:11 |
| rickspencer3 | ;) | 11:11 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, sorry but there was food before you in the line ;-) | 11:12 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, maybe I should install a web cam in my house so you can see when I am getting coffee and be ready for my jokes in the morning? | 11:12 |
| seb128 | lol | 11:12 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, I'm still amazed you manage to get up that early btw! | 11:13 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, it's 7:15am | 11:15 |
| rickspencer3 | I live on teh East Coast now :) | 11:15 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, right, but I saw joining like an hour ago | 11:15 |
| rickspencer3 | hehe | 11:16 |
| seb128 | saw you* | 11:16 |
| rickspencer3 | right | 11:16 |
| * didrocks notes that seb128 put food before manager. Bad for you review dude! | 11:16 | |
| seb128 | didrocks, next reviews are in a year right? | 11:16 |
| rickspencer3 | when I get up I check my email for irc for fires first thing ;) | 11:16 |
| seb128 | but then we are going to have a new manager anyway :p | 11:16 |
| rickspencer3 | lol | 11:16 |
| didrocks | yeah, you can "too late!" :) | 11:16 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, knows he can do no wrong in my eyes | 11:16 |
| * seb128 hugs rickspencer3 | 11:17 | |
| * rickspencer3 hugs seb128 | 11:17 | |
| seb128 | Laney, testing the iso on real hardware and tweaking the seed is still on my todolist | 11:18 |
| seb128 | I didn't manage to get to it after the meeting yesterday, I had accumulated some pings and backlog | 11:18 |
| seb128 | I hope to do that this afternoon ;-) | 11:18 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, when you do you think we can install that? | 11:18 |
| rickspencer3 | couplle of weeks? | 11:18 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, boot and test, by Malta | 11:18 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, sweet | 11:18 |
| rickspencer3 | I'll have my new 11.6 inch dell with me | 11:19 |
| rickspencer3 | we can convert it | 11:19 |
| seb128 | install ... let's see, with some luck that's working without needing to tweak too much | 11:19 |
| seb128 | good | 11:19 |
| Laney | install should work if live does ... | 11:19 |
| seb128 | which one is that? inspiron 11? | 11:19 |
| * Laney makes a bold statement | 11:19 | |
| * Laney regrets it | 11:19 | |
| seb128 | lol | 11:19 |
| seb128 | Laney, I was thinking the same but I went for the "with some luck" statement ;-) | 11:20 |
| Sweet5hark | Laney: to boldly go where no unittest has gone before! | 11:25 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, yeah, I got the inspiron 11 | 11:25 |
| rickspencer3 | I was told that it "just works" | 11:25 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, it does indeed ;-) | 11:25 |
| rickspencer3 | my plan is to be all Unity 8/Mir asap | 11:26 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, that's the machine I'm testing unity8/Mir on btw | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | :0 | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | so, I will need chromium | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | which supposedly already has a Mir backend | 11:26 |
| seb128 | qengho probably knows about that | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | and I will need Qt, which supposedly already works :) | 11:26 |
| seb128 | right | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, I'm setting up a call so that a few of us can discuss Gtk | 11:26 |
| seb128 | ok | 11:27 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm getting slightly different stories from different people, so I thought we could just work it out on a call quickly | 11:27 |
| seb128 | would it make sense to wait for Malta to discuss it more? | 11:27 |
| seb128 | k | 11:27 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, no, I would like to have at least a rough plan by Malta | 11:27 |
| rickspencer3 | so we can work the plan at the sprint :) | 11:27 |
| seb128 | k | 11:27 |
| * darkxst is also wondering what is happening with gtk+ | 11:30 | |
| seb128 | you mean? | 11:31 |
| seb128 | upstream? | 11:31 |
| darkxst | seb128, no, I know what is happening upstream! in utopic! | 11:32 |
| seb128 | what do you want to know about GTK in utopic? | 11:35 |
| darkxst | seb128, what is blocking 3.12 would be a good start! | 11:40 |
| seb128 | it's being tested, we discussed it at the weekly meeting here (logs are available if you are interested) | 11:43 |
| seb128 | the main problem at the moment in GtkHeaderBar use in dialogs | 11:43 |
| seb128 | larsu is working on that to see what we can do to make them work on e.g Unity | 11:43 |
| seb128 | one of the changes required is to update our themes | 11:44 |
| seb128 | Lars said he's going to work on that | 11:44 |
| seb128 | we might need some Unity work as well | 11:44 |
| seb128 | then we need to decide if that's going enough or we need to patch GTK as well | 11:44 |
| larsu | we definitely need support from unity for border-less windows | 11:45 |
| larsu | it can't resize them right now | 11:45 |
| larsu | and we'll need a patch if we want traditional title bars on dialogs | 11:45 |
| darkxst | seb128, right, I see, can't really help with unity/theming issues | 11:46 |
| darkxst | but gtk patches are more probable | 11:46 |
| darkxst | I would actually attend your meetings... if they weren't at a god awful time for me! | 11:47 |
| larsu | darkxst: what do you mean by "more probable" | 11:47 |
| darkxst | larsu, that I could probably help there | 11:48 |
| larsu | ah, right | 11:48 |
| darkxst | (as long as it doesn't involve theming!) | 11:48 |
| larsu | you're really afraid of theming ;) | 11:48 |
| larsu | tbh, most of this work involves theming at least a bit | 11:49 |
| darkxst | larsu, nope, just find C much more readable than CSS! | 11:50 |
| larsu | ha, it's almost the same syntax man ;) | 11:51 |
| darkxst | larsu, syntax is not the problem, it just feels like I end up wasting hours anytime I start messing CSS | 11:54 |
| darkxst | (same for the couple of websites I have written) | 11:54 |
| larsu | right, I know the feeling | 11:55 |
| larsu | it's possible to write good css, but almost noone does it | 11:55 |
| darkxst | larsu, its possible to write good code in any language, but there are a bunch where no-one does! | 11:56 |
| larsu | C isn't necessarily a good example of that, though | 11:57 |
| ogra_ | bah | 11:59 |
| darkxst | I think GNOME C is pretty good in general | 11:59 |
| ogra_ | so i just got a firefox update that told me to restart the browser with a popup ... | 11:59 |
| ogra_ | when i clicked it didnt restart | 11:59 |
| ogra_ | and now trying to start FF i only get a message about FF already running | 12:00 |
| === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow | ||
| darkxst | but certainly I have seen horror code in many languages | 12:00 |
| * ogra_ wouldnt like to lose the ~300 tabs he has open across various windows | 12:00 | |
| larsu | ogra_: firefox should keep those even if it crashes (it shows you a "restore last session?" tab) | 12:00 |
| larsu | darkxst: fair enoguh | 12:00 |
| larsu | *enough | 12:01 |
| ogra_ | larsu, well, it shows me "another instance is already running" ... | 12:01 |
| larsu | ogra_: ya, kill -9 it first | 12:01 |
| ogra_ | i'm looking for a safe way out of that :) | 12:01 |
| ogra_ | ok | 12:01 |
| larsu | wait. | 12:01 |
| larsu | don't make me responsible | 12:01 |
| larsu | if you loose all those tabs | 12:01 |
| ogra_ | hah | 12:01 |
| ogra_ | to late ... now i will blame you :) | 12:02 |
| darkxst | ogra_, why do you need 300 tabs? | 12:02 |
| ogra_ | oh, wow | 12:02 |
| ogra_ | 3188 ? Sl 1799:52 /usr/lib/firefox/firefox | 12:02 |
| larsu | having 300 tabs open is some kind of insanity anyway | 12:02 |
| ogra_ | that did run since quite some time | 12:02 |
| ogra_ | well, i do actual work on my machine :P | 12:02 |
| larsu | hm, new gtk also loses images in messages dialogs and centers its labels... | 12:03 |
| * larsu wonders in how far we want to go to revert those | 12:03 | |
| larsu | seb128: ? | 12:03 |
| ogra_ | phew | 12:03 |
| ogra_ | all fine ... | 12:03 |
| larsu | ogra_: awesome :) | 12:03 |
| ogra_ | it always restores all windows on one workspace though ... but thats something to blame unity for i guess ... not FF | 12:03 |
| seb128 | larsu, the less reverts the better, maybe check with design/mpt, what they don't flag "no no no" can stay? | 12:04 |
| larsu | seb128: good idea. I'll note those down and schedule a call / session in Malta with mpt | 12:05 |
| seb128 | larsu, looks like mpt should be in Malta the same week as we are, good ;-) | 12:06 |
| larsu | yep | 12:06 |
| larsu | \o/ | 12:06 |
| * Laney tries g-t with the transparency patch | 12:14 | |
| larsu | wheeeee | 12:15 |
| Laney | it's a bit buggy | 12:15 |
| Laney | it doesn't live update | 12:15 |
| Laney | you have to toggle "use colours from system theme" to make changes take effect | 12:16 |
| larsu | ugh | 12:16 |
| larsu | that's annoying | 12:16 |
| Laney | yeah probably just some missing signal bindings though | 12:16 |
| larsu | I can have a look at that later | 12:18 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: would there be a chance in Malta for me to present a widely a crazy lunatic vision for Ubuntu? | 12:31 |
| mlankhorst | libreoffice replacing unity as shell? | 12:32 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, to who? the team? Mark? ;-) | 12:34 |
| ogra_ | will you show us the LibO click packages finally ? | 12:35 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: the team, not (yet) Mark. It would be about packaging, so foundations would likely be the ones to consider it ultimately ... | 12:37 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, yeah, I'm sure we can organize that | 12:37 |
| seb128 | humpf | 12:38 |
| seb128 | Laney, would you take your rain back, please? | 12:38 |
| ogra_ | no ! ... keep it in france ... we dont want it up here north | 12:38 |
| Laney | please put your request in writing and it will be filed and processed in due course | 12:39 |
| * Laney sets up the special processing area | 12:39 | |
| mlankhorst | more red tape! | 12:39 |
| seb128 | :-( | 12:40 |
| Sweet5hark | ogra_: hah, actually, it will most likely say click-packages are not the solution as they only solve a subset of the problem. ;) The idea goes much deeper, but might solve issues on a more fundamental level -- but it would be really something for the long run. | 12:41 |
| ogra_ | Sweet5hark, well, the phone image will eventually take over the desktop | 12:41 |
| ogra_ | i woudl actually expect us to move away from debs over the next few years | 12:42 |
| ogra_ | (for endusers that is) | 12:42 |
| ogra_ | using image based updates on the desktop (which means readonly rootfs) etc etc | 12:43 |
| Sweet5hark | ogra_: yeah, the phone image might be a starting point of what I had in mind. And also yeah: debs are not part of that way to deploy anymore. ;) | 12:43 |
| seb128 | ogra_, that's going to be challenging | 12:43 |
| seb128 | ogra_, did you read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-March/001856.html ? | 12:43 |
| ogra_ | seb128, why ? just drop debs | 12:44 |
| ogra_ | yes | 12:44 |
| seb128 | ogra_, if we "just drop debs" we don't have an usable desktop anymore | 12:44 |
| seb128 | we need to find a way to convert those to clicks first | 12:44 |
| ogra_ | we just need to leave the old cruft behind ... use debs for building images, give them to developers that run in rw mode and perhaps to server people | 12:44 |
| seb128 | ogra_, except if you don't care for libreoffice, firefox, chromium, gimp, inkscape, etc | 12:44 |
| ogra_ | for the rest just make the desktop identical to what we have on the phone today | 12:45 |
| ogra_ | seb128, right, then you switch your image to writable mode and use it like you did before | 12:45 |
| seb128 | I though that was not supported? | 12:46 |
| ogra_ | for the typical desktop user the image based approach works better ... | 12:46 |
| seb128 | "typical" | 12:46 |
| ogra_ | it is not supported in the specific image design we use on the phones | 12:46 |
| seb128 | I guess you mean "if we include libreoffice, firefox, etc in the base image"? | 12:46 |
| ogra_ | if you have an actual readonly partition instead of a bunch of loop mounted img files you can indeed do it in a supported way | 12:47 |
| ogra_ | seb128, no, these should be clicks | 12:47 |
| ogra_ | built from plain upstream ... without distro hacks we have to care for etc | 12:47 |
| ogra_ | no more maintainer scripts ... | 12:47 |
| ogra_ | system upgrades done in minutes instead of hours with predictable installations etc | 12:48 |
| seb128 | right | 12:48 |
| seb128 | well, we "just" have to convert our archive to clicks | 12:48 |
| asac | if we feel we are facing this question: we could reach out to firefox and libreoffice and i am sure with some moderate convincing power they might be happy to feed into our clickstore if that gives them the ability to ship what they want | 12:49 |
| ogra_ | nah | 12:49 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128, orga_: are you both in Malta? from what I see you are both wrong ;) | 12:49 |
| ogra_ | we only have to convert the UI apps to clicks | 12:49 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, lol | 12:49 |
| seb128 | ogra_, it's still a large stack of apps | 12:49 |
| ogra_ | seb128, sure | 12:49 |
| ogra_ | thats why i said "within the next years" :) | 12:50 |
| seb128 | right, fair enough | 12:50 |
| seb128 | asac, and sure, engaging with upstream to ramp that up is going to be useful/needed | 12:50 |
| asac | i think the ones that have upstreams that distribute binaries its not that hard. for those that only distribute sources and are not into the binary business like gnome, its indeed a bit more tricky | 12:50 |
| ogra_ | why would you use binaries ? | 12:51 |
| seb128 | do we have a good story on "how to get your app published in the click store" for upstreams? | 12:51 |
| === mjohnson151 is now known as mjohnson15 | ||
| * didrocks sees clouds now… wonder if it's because of juju or seb128 sending them my way now… | 12:51 | |
| ogra_ | just use the source ... we have it already ... you just need to make the archive build a click package alongside | 12:51 |
| asac | seb128: yes, just upload :) | 12:51 |
| Sweet5hark | asac: using upstream binaries is insane for anything nontrivial | 12:51 |
| asac | seb128: i know mozilla has been waiting for this ability for ages | 12:51 |
| ogra_ | seb128, yeah, just push your locally built binary | 12:51 |
| asac | mozilla etc. have infrastructure to validate that their build works on ubuntu | 12:52 |
| asac | etc. | 12:52 |
| asac | they dont have many users, but if they would have thea bility to really distribute their stuff alongside our distro | 12:52 |
| asac | they surely would even invest more to make their experience shine by default on ubuntu | 12:53 |
| asac | anyway, its clear we probably need a deb story in the click/syustem image world somehow. afaik mvo and foudnations are working on that | 12:53 |
| ogra_ | we dont :P | 12:55 |
| ogra_ | we need to make sure that if you switch away from system image you can use debs | 12:55 |
| asac | ogra_: we dont? | 12:55 |
| didrocks | one source tree to rule them all :) | 12:56 |
| ogra_ | imho we dont need any deb support in system-image setups | 12:56 |
| didrocks | but I have already made the point multiple times :p | 12:56 |
| seb128 | didrocks, well, the source tree is orthogonal to the apps distribution problem | 12:56 |
| asac | ogra_: well, so guess we could say that and pair it with the ability to convert things into your own system image | 12:56 |
| asac | to re-lock down | 12:56 |
| asac | :) | 12:56 |
| asac | lie what was on canoni-tech | 12:56 |
| ogra_ | fi you have system-image you go with clicks ... if you want debs you switch to readwrite ... and cant go back | 12:57 |
| seb128 | didrocks, having one unified source tree doesn't give you libreoffice packages in the click store | 12:57 |
| ogra_ | but then debs need to be properly supported indeed | 12:57 |
| asac | disable system image, use apt to fiddle, snapshot a system image, easy distribute :) | 12:57 |
| didrocks | seb128: you should the subdirectory built binary and project that to the installed system | 12:57 |
| asac | ogra_: the part of the story where you cant go bad just doesnt feel good enough for our standards :) | 12:57 |
| ogra_ | asac, and how would that work with the server side generated deltas ? | 12:57 |
| asac | sounds like a technical detail | 12:57 |
| asac | :) | 12:57 |
| ogra_ | lol | 12:57 |
| asac | i am not saying that story is fully developed | 12:58 |
| ogra_ | well, the design wont allow that | 12:58 |
| asac | but its one vector to maybe look at this | 12:58 |
| ogra_ | my vector is that 80% of the users should be fine with s-i | 12:58 |
| asac | yes, for thtat i agree :) | 12:58 |
| ogra_ | and the other 20 will happily just go with apt-get dist-upgarde | 12:58 |
| asac | actually 95% at least | 12:58 |
| ogra_ | and stay there | 12:58 |
| ogra_ | we just need to make sure that both work fine and that the switch works properly | 12:59 |
| ogra_ | i wouldnt provide a switch to go back .. | 12:59 |
| asac | maybe its the right way to look at it | 12:59 |
| asac | buit lets see; the more we think the better our solutions get | 12:59 |
| Laney | larsu: I uploaded it to ppa:laney/experimental if you want to take a look | 13:00 |
| * Laney biab | 13:00 | |
| asac | and we have just started thinking :) | 13:00 |
| asac | hehe | 13:00 |
| seb128 | ogra_, well, your 80% of users being happy assume that we have clicks for libreoffice, chromium, firefox, gimp, pidgin, etc? | 13:01 |
| asac | seb128: of course | 13:01 |
| asac | seb128: we want t store full of useful killer apps | 13:01 |
| asac | open source, proprietary, games etc. | 13:01 |
| ogra_ | seb128, yes, which means our builders need to roll clicks alongside the debs | 13:01 |
| seb128 | that seems like a pre-require | 13:02 |
| asac | how they get into the store and who is doing that is kind of secondary and technical detail i think. | 13:02 |
| seb128 | before using system images for desktop | 13:02 |
| mdeslaur | I'm not sure anyone will be happy about rebooting their desktop for daily security updates | 13:03 |
| mdeslaur | I sure hate as hell when I need to reboot my phone for updates :) | 13:03 |
| mvo | ogra_: building them alongside seems to be tricky given that e.g. the file layout will have to be different for clicks (different sysconfdir for example) | 13:03 |
| ogra_ | mvo, static builds ;) | 13:03 |
| mvo | ogra_: right, but even then /etc will be different, plugin loading location, support files (like images) | 13:04 |
| ogra_ | they will all be relative to the click root | 13:04 |
| mvo | ./configure with the right options can do that, but it would be a build for click and a build for deb | 13:04 |
| ogra_ | build a static deb ... dpkg -x into the click root ... roll a click package from that root ... done | 13:06 |
| mvo | indeed, its totally doable, but "build alongside debs" sounds nicer than "repackage them" :) | 13:06 |
| mvo | but why would we use deb in this case? we could as well skip this step | 13:06 |
| ogra_ | but we still want to provide the deb | 13:06 |
| ogra_ | and we build it already | 13:07 |
| ogra_ | the click creation should just happen alongside | 13:07 |
| pitti | tjaalton, mlankhorst: is the provisional mesa MRE still a requirement from somewhere? we reviewed it during the last TB meeting | 13:07 |
| mdeslaur | ogra_: uhm, no, we're not going to start building everything statically | 13:07 |
| ogra_ | indeed it could just build it differently or in aa separate way | 13:07 |
| mvo | so debs would be for older distro releases? or why would we keep building it in this future? | 13:07 |
| ogra_ | mvo, for people wanting to use a traditional setup | 13:08 |
| pitti | tjaalton, mlankhorst: it provably caused at least one regression in a stable update (bug 1134974) which was never triaged, and in general it's by and large impossible to regression test that on all the world's hw | 13:08 |
| ubot5 | bug 1134974 in mesa (Ubuntu) "compiz and other display misbehavior on HD4000 after xatracker/mesa components upgraded to 9.0.2-0ubuntu0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134974 | 13:08 |
| ogra_ | mvo, the idea is: everyone gets a system-image install ... people that want to still use debs switch that over to an apt-get based design with a single command ... they cant go back but still use the system like debian or the former ubuntu ... so you please developers | 13:09 |
| seb128 | pitti, aren't those updates required for new hardware enablement sometimes? | 13:09 |
| pitti | seb128: well, that's the tension -- breaking existing systems vs. enabling new ones | 13:09 |
| pitti | so I'm asking where that request comes from (OEM team, etc.?) | 13:09 |
| pitti | and whether these could rather live in e. g. backports | 13:09 |
| seb128 | we can't really have an LTS that doesn't run on newer hardware though | 13:10 |
| pitti | well, we can't really have an LTS which breaks underneath you either :) | 13:10 |
| seb128 | indeed, a tricky balance as always ;-) | 13:10 |
| pitti | so we either a way to do proper regression testing (but I think that's practically impossible) or confine the impact to new installations | 13:11 |
| pitti | of course if we put it into the lts-backports pacakges or into the -backports pocket you'd have the same problem one update later | 13:11 |
| tjaalton | pitti: yes, they're needed | 13:11 |
| pitti | so if it's e. g. enough to backport them for the 14.04.X releases, the -lts-backport approach seems better | 13:12 |
| pitti | (even though it still doesn't guarantee regressions) | 13:12 |
| pitti | so the TB is leaning towards revoking the MRE until we get a better approach here | 13:12 |
| pitti | at least a plan how to catch regressions (and at the *very* least, triage incoming regression reports) | 13:13 |
| pitti | tjaalton: by whom? for what targets? | 13:13 |
| pitti | ah, meeting time, will catch up later | 13:13 |
| pitti | (just an invalid noise from hangouts, still listening) | 13:16 |
| tjaalton | I tried to find the regression bug from the mesa bug list but couldn't | 13:28 |
| tjaalton | and the noisy list is only 177 bugs long | 13:28 |
| mdeslaur | tjaalton: do mesa updates get testing on our whole lab of certified hardware before they are pushed out to a release? (just curious) | 13:31 |
| mdeslaur | ie: how are we making sure we don't regress certified hardware from oems? | 13:32 |
| tjaalton | we use piglit | 13:32 |
| tjaalton | and used wider testing only when doing a major release update post-ff | 13:33 |
| tjaalton | haven't received a bug via oem projects due to an update | 13:34 |
| mdeslaur | hrm, I gather most oem projects use intel hardware | 13:35 |
| tjaalton | and blobs | 13:35 |
| tjaalton | on nvidia/amd | 13:35 |
| tjaalton | because they are sooo much easier | 13:35 |
| tjaalton | really :) | 13:35 |
| mdeslaur | hehe | 13:35 |
| tjaalton | still, upstream point releases get tested by others too, we're not in a void | 13:36 |
| tjaalton | and it's mostly intel updates in them anyway | 13:36 |
| tjaalton | hmm I lied | 13:37 |
| tjaalton | so we've done 11 point-release sru's, and got one regression that fell through the cracks? | 13:41 |
| tjaalton | which probably got fixed by the next point-release | 13:41 |
| tjaalton | pitti: by me for instance who's waiting for some of the broadwell diff in 10.1..10.2 to get in the next point-release | 13:45 |
| mdeslaur | tjaalton: well, the regression that fell through the cracks was worrisome | 13:45 |
| === mjohnson151 is now known as mjohnson15 | ||
| tjaalton | which bug was it? | 13:45 |
| tjaalton | couldn't find it | 13:45 |
| pitti | bug 1134974 (see above) | 13:46 |
| ubot5 | bug 1134974 in mesa (Ubuntu) "compiz and other display misbehavior on HD4000 after xatracker/mesa components upgraded to 9.0.2-0ubuntu0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134974 | 13:46 |
| seb128 | (thanks to whoever got the bot back here) | 13:46 |
| tjaalton | ah so it didn't even have severity set | 13:47 |
| pitti | yeah, as I said it wasn't triaged at all | 13:47 |
| tjaalton | well it's a hybrid so dunno | 13:47 |
| tjaalton | still, 12.04.2 got the same update and most machines that used it were IVB based, so I'd say this was something that went wrong on his install only | 13:51 |
| tjaalton | and I've been using IVB on my desktop for two years now, since it was beta | 13:51 |
| tjaalton | we'd know if it was something widespread | 13:52 |
| Sweet5hark | Hey guys, its really simple: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1253620/comments/77 so who of you will SRU all dependencies of glib on precise for once? | 14:02 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1253620 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "Can't open a LibreOffice native file via CIFS share" [Critical,Confirmed] | 14:02 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: ^^ volunteering? | 14:02 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: *sigh* the joke just got serious. | 14:24 |
| ogra_ | stop making jokes ! | 14:24 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, sorry, was in an hangout, reading backlog | 14:25 |
| seb128 | urg | 14:25 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: you have mail ;) | 14:25 |
| seb128 | saw that! | 14:25 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: can we agree on ogra_ SRUing all of gnome? | 14:26 |
| seb128 | wfm | 14:26 |
| ogra_ | thats scriptable ... | 14:27 |
| Sweet5hark | ogra_: the SRU team will likely script back though ... | 14:28 |
| ogra_ | yeah, thats what i fear | 14:28 |
| Sweet5hark | ogra_: ... a drone that finds and kills you with a spoon. | 14:28 |
| ogra_ | gnome is dead anyway :P | 14:28 |
| ogra_ | (until the QML re-write) | 14:28 |
| seb128 | ogra_, it's not friday yet! | 14:29 |
| Laney | I wish boring trolling was dead | 14:29 |
| ogra_ | seb128, ah, damned ... just noticed | 14:29 |
| Sweet5hark | ogra_: well, "gnome" was a simplifcation. actually its all that depends on glib-2.0 | 14:29 |
| Laney | all that uses those macros, at worst | 14:29 |
| seb128 | I don't understand | 14:30 |
| seb128 | http://ubuntu-codesearch.surgut.co.uk/search?q=GUINT32_SWAP_LE_BE | 14:30 |
| seb128 | returns neither gvfs nor libreoffice | 14:30 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: is that searching on precise? | 14:31 |
| seb128 | it doesn't return glib either | 14:31 |
| seb128 | Laney, codesearch is busted! | 14:31 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=GUINT32_SWAP_LE_BE seems better | 14:32 |
| Laney | it's re-running on utopic now | 14:32 |
| seb128 | "re-running"? | 14:32 |
| Laney | yes | 14:32 |
| seb128 | means rebuilding an index/currently incomplete ? | 14:32 |
| Laney | I guess it could explain it, could also be buggy though :( | 14:33 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: ... which shows on the first page that this macro is used in macros, so a simple search wont do ... | 14:33 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, one solution might be to put a "fixed define" in gvfs to fix that specific issue | 14:34 |
| seb128 | though I'm unsure how likely that's going to create interaction issues with other component using the wrong macro | 14:34 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: yes, but that might break as client code of gvfs migh do the swap too: swap twice in a broken way => no error, swap correctly once (in fixed gvfs), incorrectly again (in lib linking against gvfs) => busted | 14:36 |
| seb128 | right | 14:36 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-March/180325.html doesn't bring confidence | 14:41 |
| Sweet5hark | yep. When I read that back in the days, I felt for Stephan. Imagine debugging a networking issue vs. windows shares from LibreOffice down to glib ... | 14:43 |
| seb128 | yeah | 14:43 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: what we maybe could do, is putting these in officialish PPA and see if there are any issues for 6 months or so ... but even then. The audience (and thus test coverage) for that PPA would be very small (only people hitting this problem on a LTS, while there is a newer LTS already) ... | 14:46 |
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| seb128 | Sweet5hark, that might be a good enough solution for those users though | 14:47 |
| seb128 | which would be the best way to make everyone happy | 14:47 |
| jagannath | hi can any body help me | 14:52 |
| jagannath | ?? | 14:52 |
| ogra_ | was that a trick question ? | 14:55 |
| === rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3 | ||
| kenvandine | mpt, where do you stand on adding custom ringtones and notification sounds in system-settings? Could we get something on the wiki about that? | 15:03 |
| kenvandine | mpt, like using the content picker to select sounds from your music library, or handle downloaded ringtones | 15:04 |
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| tjaalton | I have two firefox profiles running, and when trying to open a link from thunderbird I get a prompt asking which profile to start, it doesn't let me open the link on an open profile | 15:45 |
| === gatox_lunch is now known as gatox | ||
| didrocks | qengho: hey, in case you don't really remember our discussion, but now, I got multiple confirmation that the "lost tab" bugs is fixed in 36 | 16:26 |
| didrocks | qengho: I hope it's even fixed in 35 so that your work for getting the fix in chromium will be easier… | 16:26 |
| qengho | didrocks: Yes, thanks. | 16:27 |
| didrocks | yw | 16:28 |
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| seb128 | qengho, do you know when 35 is becoming stable? | 16:31 |
| qengho | seb128: Probably end of this month. | 16:35 |
| tedg | Laney, How about "ubuntu-unicorn"! :-) | 16:36 |
| ogra_ | ubuntu-desktop-ng | 16:36 |
| ogra_ | :) | 16:36 |
| tedg | omg-ubuntu | 16:37 |
| ogra_ | ubuntu-da-fjutscha | 16:37 |
| Laney | ubuntu-me-harder | 16:39 |
| kenvandine | ubuntu-desktop-omg | 16:46 |
| seb128 | ubuntu-finally-no-compiz | 16:47 |
| seb128 | ;-) | 16:47 |
| ogra_ | ++ | 16:47 |
| seb128 | no wm either though atm :/ | 16:47 |
| seb128 | unity8 on a desktop feels like a tablet UI | 16:48 |
| Laney | very early days | 16:50 |
| ogra_ | just bribe the filemanager app guys into adding a desktop :) | 16:50 |
| stgraber | we could also call it ubutnu, that'd be in line with what we use for our pre-release services :) | 16:57 |
| stgraber | (just to confuse the hell out of everyone) | 16:57 |
| Laney | :D | 17:03 |
| seb128 | Laney, thanks for the work on bootstraping and sending that email btw ;-) | 17:05 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, what happened to your normal you? | 17:37 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: normal me being "Sweetshark"? | 17:37 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, yeah | 17:37 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, you are also not on the Canonical IRC it seems | 17:38 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: did a "do-release-update" to trusty on the pandaboard where that was running, and the machine didnt come up with a sshd :/ | 17:38 |
| seb128 | :-( | 17:39 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, anyway, real question for you ... ;-) | 17:39 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: yes? | 17:39 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, what do you see as your focus on lo for u-cycle? | 17:39 |
| seb128 | the packaging changes you mentioned, keeping up with upstream, bugfix I guess | 17:40 |
| seb128 | GTK3/Mir work maybe? | 17:40 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the team is doing this cycle ;-) | 17:40 |
| Sweet5hark | seb128: yes, thats roughly the agenda. plus (but thats more upstream) getting more unittesting and CI in there .. | 17:40 |
| seb128 | ok, makes sense | 17:41 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark, thanks ;-) | 17:41 |
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| === m_conley is now known as m_conley_away | ||
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