[00:36] <manchicken> Ugh… work just gave me a Dell to install Kubuntu on… but I can't get the L2TP+IPSec VPN working.
[00:40] <manchicken> It's a nice machine, too… just need to get the VPN set up and I'm golden.
[03:37] <valorie> linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/2014/05/todays-catch-up-meeting-with-ubuntu.html
[04:49] <jose> valorie: just read the post, good to know you got to highlight those points
[04:50] <valorie> it's worthwhile to read the log - people actually *discussed*
[05:01] <jose> will do tomorrow :)
[05:08] <tsimpson> valorie: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t17:39 is probably a "better" log link
[05:08] <valorie> very cool
[05:08]  * valorie fixes
[05:12] <valorie> how did you derive the big after the hash?
[05:12] <valorie> hashmark
[05:13] <valorie> thank you, tsimpson
[05:13] <tsimpson> the times in the log are clickable
[05:14] <valorie> shiver me timbers, modern whizbangs
[06:53] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:39] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: apply for motu
[09:40] <shadeslayer> Yes
[09:44] <ovidiu-florin> mornin'
[09:44] <Riddell> it's.. ovidiu-florin !
[09:44] <ovidiu-florin> you don't have to stand up :D
[09:45]  * Riddell spins in his chair
[09:45]  * ovidiu-florin scratches his head
[09:45] <ovidiu-florin> I can't get DVDs to work on a 14.04 instance. What should I debug?
[09:45] <ovidiu-florin> I have the 3 magical DVD libs installed
[09:46] <ovidiu-florin> I tried to play with VLC and KMPlayer and VLC freezes KMPlayer does not play anything
[09:46] <soee> ovidiu-florin: tested more than one dvd ?
[09:46] <ovidiu-florin> tested a bunch
[09:47] <ovidiu-florin> I'll try to test the same DVDs on a 13.10 instance later today
[09:47] <soee> strange than, as i mentioned yetserday dvd works nice for me
[09:47] <ovidiu-florin> but still, what should I debug? where should I look?
[09:47] <soee> maybe better channel would be #ubuntu
[09:48]  * ovidiu-florin is affraid of #ubuntu
[09:51] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: have you installed css?
[09:51] <ovidiu-florin> yes
[09:51] <Riddell> works great for me in 14.04
[09:51] <ovidiu-florin> it's one of the 3 magical packages
[09:52] <soee> http://www.itworld.com/software/415995/install-multimedia-codecs-ubuntu-1404
[09:53] <ovidiu-florin> libdvdread4  is installed
[09:54] <ovidiu-florin> although I did not run the install-css.sh script
[09:54] <soee> but you mentioned that it's freezes right but cd playbeck starts ?
[09:54] <ovidiu-florin> I added the videolan ppas and installed it myself
[09:54] <ovidiu-florin> yes
[10:10] <shadeslayer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktp-contact-list/+bug/1319085
[10:10] <shadeslayer> could someone verify that ^ 
[10:12] <Riddell> shadeslayer: if I kill mission-control-5
[10:12] <Riddell> then in KDE IM Contacts
[10:12] <Riddell> click find
[10:12] <Riddell> and search for rohan
[10:12] <Riddell> it successfully finds 4 rohans
[10:12] <shadeslayer> are you offline
[10:12] <shadeslayer> needs setting to offline first
[10:13] <shadeslayer> then kill m-c
[10:13] <shadeslayer> also, testing procedure says purge
[10:13] <shadeslayer> so .... whut
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:06] <Riddell> agateau: are you sorting the shirts from jussi you want?
[12:18] <turgay> http://sudrap.org/paste/text/331387/       what is the solution ?
[12:20] <Riddell> hmm I can't log into sftp people.ubuntu.com  is it still up?
[12:20] <Riddell> turgay: dpkg --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/project-neon5-sddm_0.0+git20140516.0310+neon10~5d59e5b~14.04_i386.deb   would work round it
[12:21] <Riddell> shadeslayer, apachelogger ↑
[12:21] <Riddell> neon issue
[12:21] <shadeslayer> just force overwrite
[12:21] <shadeslayer> for now
[12:22] <Riddell> whee, another nice kubuntu derivative distro http://people.ubuntu.com/~jr/univention.png
[12:23] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: reckon that needs fixing upstream btw?
[12:23] <apachelogger> makes sddm and lightdm not coinstallable, users aint gonna like that
[12:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: I lik ehow that plasma panel has a rendering bug there
[12:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: where?
[12:25] <turgay> what results?
[12:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: no, d__ed recommends just breaking/replacing the file
[12:26] <shadeslayer> Riddell: in the systray
[12:26] <shadeslayer> and in the time plasmoid
[12:26] <shadeslayer> and underneath the task manager
[12:27] <Riddell> shadeslayer: that's the wallpaper used for the panel
[12:28] <shadeslayer> what
[12:32] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that won't work for kubuntu proper
[12:33] <apachelogger> best that can get is an alternates which is slightly shitty entirely shitty
[12:33] <apachelogger> or a debconf thingy which is also slightly crap
[12:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: ah, oddest background ever
[12:35] <agateau> Riddell: regarding t-shirts: don't think we'll end up getting them, remaining sizes are too "exotic"
[12:37]  * Riddell blogs http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=155
[12:39] <alket> Are you going to remove firefox ?
[12:43] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: depends on when update alternatives is triggered, if it's triggered after the debconf dialog to choose between lightdm and sddm, we can do changes based on that answer
[12:45] <shadeslayer> man page doesn't say
[12:46] <yofel> so far the debconf dialog does nothing other than setting /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[12:46] <shadeslayer> yofel: right, we could just read that and run update alternatives accordingly?
[12:47] <yofel> possibly, which will probably work until the point where someone edits the file at which point dpkg will mess with you as it's a conffile
[12:47] <yofel> but I'm just guessing here
[12:47] <apachelogger> it all sounds very silly
[12:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: why does sddm need its own service config?
[12:47] <shadeslayer> d__ed: ^^
[12:47] <yofel> well, something has to provide it?
[12:47] <d__ed> yeah, and both lightdm and sddm implement the same service
[12:48] <d__ed> (by design)
[12:48] <apachelogger> my point is... why do both need to install the same file
[12:49] <sgclark> Who do I bug for wiki.kubuntu.org errors? I am trying to create my wiki and get <class 'openid.message.InvalidOpenIDNamespace'> errors when trying to login
[12:49] <yofel> sgclark: #canonical-sysadmin AFAIK
[12:49] <sgclark> ty
[12:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: because if they don't then who provides the file?
[12:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you could have just sddm installed, and if we don't ship the file, then where does it come from?
[12:53] <apachelogger> geee
[12:53] <apachelogger> that must be why every application ships their own libraries
[12:53] <apachelogger> if the application didn't ship them they wouldn't be there
[12:53] <apachelogger> -.-
[12:53] <yofel> does that file really have to be named by that completely generic dbus interface name?
[12:54] <apachelogger> yes
[12:54] <yofel> as like every systemd login manager will have to provide one and the same file :S
[12:54] <yofel> which is a mess
[12:54] <apachelogger> renaming it wouldn't change the problem anyway
[12:54] <apachelogger> it would just hide it
[12:54] <yofel> well, it would mean that lightdm could ship a .lightdm.conf and sddm a .sddm.conf
[12:54] <apachelogger> the file sets access rules for the displaymanager service
[12:54] <yofel> shitty, but work
[12:54] <yofel> s
[12:55] <apachelogger> which is implemented by two different pieces of software, much like plugins implementing a given plugin interface
[12:55] <yofel> why is it a displaymanager service and not a lightdm service?
[12:55] <apachelogger> but since sddm and lightdm need to have the same access rules it makes no sense that both install the same file
[12:55] <apachelogger> there should be a tarball xdg-display-manager or whatever that installs this and possibly other files that may be of use to both displaymanagers
[12:56] <apachelogger> otherwise if I create my own displaymanager because I am a really cool dude I will have to copy that shit file again, and then when I fork my own displaymanager because really it should be redone in ruby I copy it again and again and again
[12:57] <yofel> again, why does the service have to be called 'displaymanager'
[12:58] <yofel> we have kdm, lightdm, gdm and whatever services now without systemd and all is fine
[12:59] <apachelogger> that has nothing to do with systemd
[12:59] <apachelogger> that's a dbus config
[12:59] <apachelogger> the new DMs register as org.fdo.DM on the system bus
[12:59] <apachelogger> so that stuff can talk to them and query seat information and whatnot
[12:59] <apachelogger> that's why they need to have the same name
[12:59] <apachelogger> they implement the same dbus interface for querying seats and shit
[13:00] <yofel> then the way you provide dbus interfaces is really shitty if only one thing providing a said interface can be installed on the system
[13:01] <apachelogger> that's what I am arguing
[13:01] <apachelogger> the file should be in a tarball that is a runtime dep of both things
[13:02] <yofel> guess that would work as a workaround
[13:02] <apachelogger> that's not a workaround
[13:02] <apachelogger> that is the solution
[13:02] <apachelogger> you have the same goo as someone else, you move the goo to a shared space and share it
[13:03] <yofel> that is really shitty if - when I write a new application - I have to check through the whole world whether someone already wrote $interface
[13:04] <apachelogger> I don't get that point
[13:04] <yofel> nvm, maybe I just don't understand how dbus was designed
[13:04] <apachelogger> yofel: that's a file controlling access to an interface
[13:05] <apachelogger> it technically doesn't have anything to do with the implementation of an interface
[13:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what happens if lightdm introduces new interface but sddm doesn't implement it yet
[13:05] <shadeslayer> do you update the file regardless of whether the app implements it
[13:06] <yofel> apachelogger: hm, I think I roughly get the point
[13:06] <yofel> so, does update-alternatives work fine with conffiles?
[13:07] <yofel> hm, should actually as it's all symlinks...
[13:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes?
[13:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: wouldn't that cause brekage?
[13:08] <apachelogger> no?
[13:08] <yofel> why would the application that doesn't implement it care?
[13:08] <shadeslayer> *shrug* ok
[13:08] <apachelogger> you can add send_interface="yolo.kitten.mewmoewmoewmoewmoewmeowemoew" to that file and it wouldn't matter
[13:08] <apachelogger> it's pretty much an ACL
[13:09] <yofel> apachelogger: TBH, I would rather then go with alternatives than a shared tarball as we won't know whether lightdm and sddm will be using the exact same ACL in the future
[13:10] <yofel> it would also be yet another pkg to keep in sync
[13:10] <apachelogger> if they implement the same interface they must use the same ACL
[13:10] <apachelogger> if they do not, then they do not implement the same interface
[13:10] <yofel> then why is this file not part of the dbus package?
[13:10] <apachelogger> that's my argument waaaaaaah
[13:10] <apachelogger> it should be in a joint package
[13:10] <apachelogger> not both
[13:11] <yofel> oh, you meant *there* ^^
[13:11] <apachelogger> unless org.freedesktop.DM is not an actually standard
[13:11] <apachelogger> in which case neither should be using that interface name at all
[13:11] <yofel> why couldn't they both define a different policy for the same interface?
[13:12] <apachelogger> they can, except then the interface is pointless
[13:13] <yofel> I'm not talking about interface definition but e.g. user restrictions, as the current file does for AddSeat
[13:13] <apachelogger> I write an application called foobar that talks to org.freedesktop.DisplayManager EXCEPT first I have to ask it whether I should talk with it using sddm interfaces or lightdm interfaces, so what's the point of talking to org.freedesktop.DisplayManager rahter than org.kitten.sddm... there is none
[13:13] <apachelogger> yofel: that is part of the interface definition
[13:14] <yofel> uhm, ok...
[13:14] <apachelogger> imagine if you will, phonon-gst and phonon-vlc both implement Media::Play(), except phonon-vlc actually will refuse to do anything unless I am in the system group 'kitten'
[13:14] <apachelogger> it wouldn't be a rotten interface implementation if it did that, would it?
[13:15] <yofel> possibly, I'll have to believe you for now
[13:15]  * yofel has to get back to work
[13:24] <Riddell> why has nobody noticed the 2 on every kubuntu website http://www.kubuntu.org/news/ladies-polo-shirts-now-kubuntu-merchandise-shop
[13:24] <Riddell> between the body and the footer
[13:24] <Riddell> just randomly there
[13:26] <shadeslayer> I did
[13:26] <shadeslayer> I bought it up
[13:26] <shadeslayer> no one knew why
[13:26] <apachelogger> I do I do
[13:26] <apachelogger> someone broke the theme :P
[13:27] <shadeslayer> wat
[13:27] <shadeslayer> 	2		<div id="overall-footer">
[13:27] <Riddell> fixed in bzr, e-mailed rt@
[14:15] <kdeuser56> yofel: is the neon iso suiteable for productive use?
[14:15] <kdeuser56> yofel: I guess you can have frameworks and kdelibs in parallel?
[14:17] <yofel> kdeuser56: please ask shadeslayer about the iso, I'm not too involved there.
[14:18] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: define productive use
[14:18] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: I can use all the "old" kdelibs stuff ...
[14:18] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: upgrades work
[14:18] <shadeslayer> sure, but you don't need the ISO for that
[14:18] <shadeslayer> upgrades won't work always
[14:19] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: why is it not based on utopic?
[14:19] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: too new
[14:19] <shadeslayer> it's useless to invest time in utopic at the moment for utopic
[14:19] <shadeslayer> plus don't think neon is boot strapped right now
[14:19] <shadeslayer> erm
[14:19] <shadeslayer> *it's useless to invest time in utopic at the moment
[14:20] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: what do you mean I do not need the iso?
[14:21] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: if you're using regular kubuntu, you can just install PN5 and use that
[14:21] <shadeslayer> no need to specifically use the ISO for that
[14:21] <shadeslayer> the ISO is mostly like a demo thing for people to try out
[14:21] <shadeslayer> sure you can install it, but that's not the point of the ISO :)
[14:22] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: but the ppa is not supported on uptoic either ... right?
[14:22] <shadeslayer> it is not
[14:22] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: like I said, not worth the time/effort at the moment
[14:22] <shadeslayer> maybe after the first alpha or some such
[14:23] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: but why shouldn't I install the iso?
[14:23] <shadeslayer> I never said that :)
[14:23] <kdeuser56> the base (14.04) is stable, and I can install all applications I need
[14:23] <shadeslayer> I just said that that's not the point of the ISO, you could just as well install kubuntu and then neon 5 ontop
[14:24] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: so to conclude there should not be much trouble to run kde 4 and kde 5 stuff in parallel?
[14:24] <shadeslayer> what's kde 5?
[14:24] <shadeslayer> :P
[14:25] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: its easier to write than frameworks 5 and kdelibs 4
[14:25] <shadeslayer> KF5 / PW2 works too :)
[14:25] <shadeslayer> also, easier doesn't necessarily mean correct, since stuff got rebranded and what not
[14:26] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: yes/no to my question?
[14:26] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: yep
[14:26] <shadeslayer> Neon 5 is meant to make sure things work parallely
[14:26] <shadeslayer> oh though kmail won't work IIRC
[14:26] <shadeslayer> nor will akonadi
[14:26] <shadeslayer> or atleast, doesn't work on my machine
[14:27] <yofel> maybe build it in sqlite mode if it has issues with mysql
[14:27] <ScottK> Sad.  Kmail in 4.13 is finally working pretty well.
[14:27] <BluesKaj> shadeslayer, that's no loss :)
[14:27] <shadeslayer> BluesKaj: it is to me
[14:28] <shadeslayer> reading ML's without kmail is a PITA
[14:28] <BluesKaj> MLs
[14:28] <BluesKaj> ?
[14:28] <shadeslayer> like you're deliberately trying to give yourself a aneurysm
[14:28] <shadeslayer> BluesKaj: mailing lists
[14:28] <ghostcube> mailing lists with TB work pretty well
[14:29] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: oh kmail/akonadi not working is a dealbreaker for me :-(
[14:30] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: yeah, we can investigate that next week I guess
[14:30] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: so it builds etc. but the binary does not work?
[14:30] <shadeslayer> kdeuser56: no, this is kmail from KDE SC 4.13
[14:31] <shadeslayer> there is no frameworks branch for that
[14:31] <kdeuser56> yeah I know ... but why doesn't it work then?
[14:31] <kdeuser56> some missing library? 
[14:34] <shadeslayer> dunno
[14:34] <shadeslayer> feel free to investigate
[14:34] <kdeuser56> okay ... I'll try to :D
[14:35] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: ah btw: icontasks is not available on frameworks right?
[14:35] <shadeslayer> nope
[14:46] <sgclark> Can someone help me with http://paste.ubuntu.com/7472878/ this package compiled fine in an utopic chroot
[14:48] <shadeslayer> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
[14:48] <shadeslayer> sgclark: needs more backlog
[14:49] <shadeslayer> oh 
[14:49] <shadeslayer>   add_custom_command Wrong syntax.  A TARGET or OUTPUT must be specified.
[14:49] <shadeslayer> there you go?
[14:49] <sgclark> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/175724929/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.kget_4%3A4.13.0-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[14:51] <sgclark> I am not strong enough with programming yet sorry, why would it compile on the chroot and not launchpad? is it a qt version thing or ?
[14:54] <shadeslayer> just hit rebuild
[14:54] <sgclark> ok
[14:54] <shadeslayer> possibly launchpad just falling over
[14:54] <shadeslayer> if it doesn't work, then, run cmake on launchpad with --trace
[14:55] <shadeslayer> you'll have to pass that in via packaging
[14:55] <shadeslayer> sgclark: where's your packaging btw?
[14:55] <shadeslayer> maybe something you changed?
[14:55] <sgclark> It is 100% debian plus a merged changelog
[14:56] <shadeslayer> oh, is it all from debian? no changes required?
[14:56] <sgclark> builds find in my new utopic chroot, died in my PPA
[14:56] <sgclark> right
[14:57] <shadeslayer> might be useful to do a fakesync if it can handle 4.12 vs 4.13
[14:57] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ^^ not sure what the procedure on that is
[14:57] <ScottK> No.  You need to merge it by hand.
[14:58] <yofel> that would be like pointless as you would still have an ubuntu1 version in the end
[14:58] <shadeslayer> ok
[15:04] <sgclark> still failing. nepomuk and ontologies are having a communication failure on launchpad. Not sure how to investigate as it does not have that failure on my chroot
[15:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer, agateau: btw, in case you don't remember you are actually kubuntu brothers what with having become members on the same day xD
[15:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: oh neat :D
[15:15] <shadeslayer> sgclark: couple of things you could do, run with the simple sbuilder script thing that mimics launchpad locally
[15:15] <shadeslayer> the other one being to upload the package and call cmake with --trace
[15:17] <sgclark> shadeslayer: I will try those, thank you
[15:18] <shadeslayer> sgclark: IIRC the first one is called  sbuild-launchpad-chroot
[15:20] <agateau> shadeslayer: hey brother :)
[15:20] <shadeslayer> *hugs*
[15:20] <shadeslayer> :)
[15:27] <Riddell> yofel: how's 4.13.1 packages coming?
[15:27] <Riddell> all installed and running fine here
[15:28] <yofel> trusty out, saucy untested but done in staging
[16:00] <Riddell> friday, today has been a good day, I have got down to 5 unprocessed e-mails :)
[16:35] <Riddell> yofel: dist-upgrade from a saucy machine has packages removed http://paste.kde.org/pxdzit4cb
[16:36] <yofel> hm, not good. I'll check
[16:36] <Riddell>  libpimcommon4 : Depends: libkgapi2-2 (>= 2.1.0) but 2.0.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[16:36] <Riddell> that could be it
[16:36] <yofel> hm, do you have the backports ppa on?
[16:37] <Riddell> ah, no
[16:38] <Riddell> yep that helps
[16:52] <Riddell> yofel: test good with me
[17:50] <sgclark> shadeslayer: builds fine in sbuilder as well, to do the --trace do I just add that in an override to dh_auto_configure in the rules file?
[17:50] <shadeslayer> sgclark: yep
[17:50] <sgclark> ty
[21:18] <Etriaph> Hi folks.