[01:51] <phillw> knome: did you back up all the images from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IconsPage before you deleted them?
[01:58] <phillw> As you will have done so, please do let me have the link as to where they all are. thanks.
[01:59] <pleia2> phillw: if you look in the history you can still view them all
[01:59] <pleia2> on lines that say: ATTDEL: you can still click on "view" or "get"
[02:00] <phillw> pleia2: nope, you cannot.. once a image is deleted it is gone
[02:00] <pleia2> for example?
[02:00] <pleia2> most of the images were deleted before knome came along, which is why the cleanup was done
[02:01] <phillw> pleia2: the images were attached to that page... i know as I did add some.
[02:02] <phillw> A sweeping deletion is the only thing that a wiki admin cannot reverse.
[02:04] <phillw> there is no trace, there is no way to recover unless the person has followed the wiki rules of backing up every page and image that they mark for deletion.
[02:06] <phillw> pleia2:  the images were attached to the page, the logs show - quite clearly, that they have been manually deleted.]
[02:06] <pleia2> phillw: can you give me an example?
[02:07] <pleia2> maybe I'm not going far back enough in history
[02:07] <phillw> pleia2: look at the edit history....
[02:07] <phillw> follow it back
[02:07] <pleia2> oh I see, the "view" is showing up but showing the icons he replaced it with, not the old branding
[02:09] <pleia2> anyway, he can certainly give more info than I can :)
[02:09] <phillw> pleia2:  you know I'm persona non gratis, but deleting all the icons from a library is simply silly
[02:10] <pleia2> there was certainly discussed rationale behind all the changes, but again, he can fill you in
[02:10] <phillw> such things make it more difficult for me to be an advocate for linux
[02:12] <phillw> pleia2: As I recall, deleting things was totally against wiki rules... you HAVE to make a back up.... Have things changed since I resigned?
[02:13] <pleia2> a lot has changed, knome spent several days after our discussions fixing up the IconsPage, documenting his work and updating all related wiki pages that had the icons
[02:14] <pleia2> it was a broken link mess before he began his work, it looks much cleaner and easier to navigate and use now
[02:14] <pleia2> anyway, time for me to get some rest
[02:14] <phillw> pleia2: well knowing knome, he will have back ups
[02:21] <phillw> knome: can you please have a read back and let me know where you backed up the artwork to. Many thanks.
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[09:03] <knome> phillw, i'll have to dig up if i have the artwork backed up. is there something specific you need?
[09:03] <phillw> knome: all of it :) several teams provided artwork to the central source at my behest in varying sizes for wiki pages to use from a central source that would never be deleted.
[09:03] <knome> so who's missing what?
[09:03] <phillw> We had an issue where someone vandalised a wiki page and the art work was deleted.... I trust that backups have been taken this time.
[09:03] <knome> the whole point of the IconsPage update was to make the icons througout the wiki look consistent
[09:03] <phillw> knome: Read the file of alterations... not too difficult?
[09:03] <phillw> knome: indeed, but the artwork has to be moved to a new area. The rule of wiki is "never delete, without a backup"... Unless you have decided to break that rule....
[09:04] <knome> it's possible i have.
[09:04] <knome> i need to check up my backups, i might have them somewhere
[09:04] <knome> but i'm really more interested about what is actually missing from somebody?
[09:04] <phillw> So, the artwork would be on "...old artwork" :)
[09:04] <knome> if they are missing any admonition icon, i'll gladly upload it for them
[09:04] <knome> and make sure it's consistent
[09:05] <knome> i understand your concern, but unless somebody actually needs something that isn't there, it'll be on my "wishlist" list :P
[09:08] <phillw> I had no idea that the artwork of people provided across teams would simply go / vanish / not be available. I did a review of that area and stated it was *THE* place to put artwork on that could be referenced from the wiki system.....
[09:08] <phillw> I'm still wondering why you deleted stuff :(
[09:09] <knome> the IconsPage mainly consisted of two kinds of icons:
[09:09] <knome> 1) icons pulled from various icon themes in various sizes
[09:09] <knome> these are still available in the original icon themes if somebody specifically misses them
[09:10] <knome> but they shouldn't be used on the wiki since they do not look consistent
[09:10] <knome> instead the contributors should use the new icons, or ask for more if the selection isn't broad enough
[09:10] <knome> 2) oversized application "header" images and other very miscellanous stuff
[09:10] <knome> those that was *IN USE* were moved to the appropriate pages
[09:11] <knome> say there was an 300x200px "app x" header image
[09:11] <knome> linked to from AppX
[09:11] <knome> it's now an attachment of AppX, since it has *no other use*
[09:11] <knome> the ones that weren't used were simply deletable material anyway
[09:12] <knome> there were some custom icons too,
[09:12] <knome> but those are either preserved/updated
[09:12] <knome> or weren't in use
[09:12] <knome> *all* wikipages that linked to *any* of the images in the IconsPage are updated to link to the new icons
[09:13] <knome> and/or their new locations under the appropriate wikipages
[09:13] <knome> now let me ask you again...
[09:13] <knome> is there something specific you are missing, or would you just want to see the old ugly wikipage?
[09:13] <phillw> knome: I'm guessing you *HATE* https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/FAQ
[09:13] <knome> no, that's fine
[09:13] <knome> it's consistent.
[09:14] <knome> it uses the round ubuntu icons. great
[09:14] <phillw> it has been deleted
[09:14] <knome> ...no?
[09:14] <phillw> by you
[09:14] <knome> that page?
[09:16] <phillw> no, the page that held it... in this case I actually uploaded it to the page and did not link it to the library, had I done so... it would be gone... as are all the others you deleted... Do you not see what you have done by deleting a library?
[09:17] <knome> hmm, let's be clear here
[09:17] <knome> i was working on the *community wiki*
[09:17] <phillw> indeed
[09:17] <knome> i don't expect other wikis to interlink
[09:17] <knome> if you've done that, and something is lost, i'm sorry
[09:17] <knome> i don't hate any page
[09:18] <phillw> Who empowered you to delete art work provided by the community?
[09:18] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage
[09:18] <knome> i didn't touch that page.
[09:19] <knome> just to be sure we're talking about the same thing.
[09:19] <knome> i don't see a reason to continue this discussion as you seem to want to finger point at me
[09:19] <knome> it's unfortunate that some pages you maintain have broken images, and it wasn't really my intention
[09:20] <phillw> I owe you a rather large apology, It is that page I thought you had removed ...
[09:20] <knome> no,
[09:20] <knome> i cleaned up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/community/IconsPage
[09:20] <knome> err
[09:21] <knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IconsPage
[09:21] <phillw> I blame google :P I do recall there was confusion... it appears that there still is
[09:21] <knome> if i'd cleaned up the developer wiki IconsPage, i would have made sure any icon on it that was used was *somewhere*
[09:22] <knome> and tbh, the developer wiki IconsPage would need a cleanup as well
[09:22] <phillw> 3 pages saying 'icons'..... not good :(
[09:22] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=beepmediaplayer.png
[09:22] <knome> that isn't a "common use case" "icon"
[09:22] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=IconHandPointing.png
[09:22] <knome> and that isn't by any standards consistent with the ubuntu style
[09:23] <phillw> So... who is the self appointed council of "standards consistent with the ubuntu style" ?
[09:24] <knome> either it's obivious to you or not
[09:24] <knome> *obvious
[09:27] <phillw> It may be obvious to me (and it is), but there is no feed back to people posting art-work up
[09:27] <phillw> I'd love to suggest to point people to  UBT, but that does not exist and no one takes any care of budding graphics people....
[09:28] <knome> hmh, well
[09:28] <knome> the situation in the community wiki is okay now
[09:28] <knome> since it's cleaned
[09:28] <knome> if somebody posts an icon that is a bit "off", we can just fix that
[09:28] <knome> if people post those as attachments to single pages... not much we can do
[09:30] <knome> we can even find all pages that use a certain icon (fortunately)
[09:31] <phillw> knome: tell me, we have yet another major overhaul of both lubuntu wiki areas pending..... But, we'll get that done... If we find a padawan along the way, would you be prepared to assist him / her ?
[09:31] <knome> since i've just got rid of responsibilities, not at this time ;)
[09:32] <knome> but i'm always around for the odd question here and there
[09:33] <phillw> okies, I'll bear that in mind and during the re-write of the 2 sections of lubuntu wiki (dev and community) I'll try to also update things to the new standard icons :)
[09:34] <knome> if you're poking at wiki.ubuntu.com, don't link to help.ubuntu.com
[09:34] <phillw> Thank you for putting up with me and allowing me to understand how things have changed
[09:34] <knome> because there is no way to trace that path
[09:35] <knome> the problem with the developer wiki is that there is a huge amount of stuff that is maintained by somebody
[09:35] <phillw> I do know the two are seperate, I used to be a wiki editor person :P
[09:35] <knome> and they are probably more touchy about somebody touching their stuff
[09:35] <knome> yeah, just making sure
[09:36] <knome> because it *is* tempting to do that now that the community wiki icons page is clean
[09:37] <phillw> knome: If I wrongly edited a page that our Head of Dev (lubuntu) looks after... He'd simply arrange a contract killing. - Motto of the story?... Don't mess with MOTU's :D
[09:38] <knome> ;)
[09:39] <phillw> and as you are one, you know that :)
[09:45] <phillw> knome: Thanks for your time, We have new TL for comms and he's making me dust the cobwebs off my wiki stuff :) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming/+spec/lubuntu-website
[09:45] <phillw> Crazy thing? I'm really enjoying it :)
[09:47] <knome> :)
[09:47] <knome> good luck
[09:51] <phillw> knome: even though I'm no longer "ubuntu" let the doc team know that I'll help out where I can. just not in release team :P
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