[00:07] <Roguehorse> jyo: It's one way to attack the animal, however content providers have been forever trying to restrict their media (at least since the modern digital age). Back in the day it was much easier for us to record our LP's onto cassetes for our friends.
[00:33] <rww> jyo: heh
[00:33] <rww> I'm still trying to figure out how they're hoping to make a functional DRM system that lives in an open source sandbox and isn't trivial to code around
[00:34] <rww> i mean, i grok that no DRM systems actually work, but still
[00:55] <nhaines> I was advising someone who was asking about DRM on ebooks or PDFs or whatever the other day.
[00:56] <nhaines> "As far as piracy goes, DRM only (and I mean only) hurts honest, paying customers. MOBI and EPUB files can be opened and edited, and the copy protection on AZW files is trivial to break. What you end up with is a situation where a DRM-broken, illicit copy can be read, edited, traded, borrowed, and shared on any device with any number of people freely and without restriction, but the DRM-encumbered file costs money and can only be used on one d
[00:56] <nhaines> I suggested it wasn't their job to make sure their readers have to buy a new copy if their Nook breaks and they decide to go for a Kindle, or vice versa.
[00:56] <rww> cut off at "can only be used on one d"
[00:57] <nhaines> and can only be used on one device forever. Guess which one is worth more to the reader? Spoiler  alert: it's the DRM-free one."
[00:57] <akk> You were advising someone who wanted to publish something using DRM?
[00:58] <akk> I'm always hesitant to buy ebooks (or anything else) with DRM, unless I'm pretty sure I know how to break it.
[00:58] <akk> I'd be happy to pay for non-DRM epub ebooks.
[00:59] <akk> (I guess that doesn't add anything, I'm just agreeing with what you said)
[01:01] <nhaines> Yeah, I said that worrying about plagiarism or piracy was a massive waste of time.
[01:01] <akk> I have a PDF copy of the book I wrote because somebody who downloaded a pirated copy gave me a link to it.
[01:02] <akk> The publisher never gave me a copy of the official released PDF.
[01:02] <nhaines> I ocassionally format ebooks in EPUB format for authors as an occassional side gig, and I always advise against DRM.
[01:02] <nhaines> Ha!
[01:02] <akk> I was very amused when somebody showed up on #gimp and was talking about how they'd downloaded this gimp book.
[01:02] <nhaines> haha
[01:02] <akk> Sort of flattered, actually, I didn't know anybody was pirating my book 'til then. :)
[01:03] <nhaines> Yeah, that's when you know you made it  :)
[01:03] <ianorlin> pirating your own book doesn't count though]
[01:03] <nhaines> Someone posted some site with TONS of ebooks for download.  Apparently a bunch of the posts actually just linked to authors' Smashwords pages or whatever.
[01:03] <akk> But really, is someone pirating the PDF that different from them getting it from a library?
[01:03] <nhaines> Not according to Mark Twain!
[01:04] <akk> Sure, it's limited time from a library, but they can always check it out again and again.
[01:04]  * ianorlin just imagined a sailboat wtih books inside it
[01:04] <nhaines> I advised the author who was upset that he should write a very polite letter saying that you were flattered but disapproved and would prefer the download was replaced with a link to the Amazon title page, and provide a Amazon Associates referral link.
[01:05] <nhaines> Actually I think I heard of an ebook sharing forum that--when an author came on to discuss their work--would remove all free download links, promote the author's library and ban anyone who reposted free links.
[01:06] <nhaines> Which, you know, doesn't make facilitating illegal downloads *right*, but if you have a passionate community you may as well engage them and make that personal connection.  Sales went up.
[01:07] <akk> I'm annoyed at how book readers aren't rebelling against DRM the way music listeners did.
[01:08]  * ianorlin doesn't pay for things with drm
[01:08] <nhaines> Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing page defaults to no DRM.
[01:08] <nhaines> ianorlin: More like Digital Restrictions Management, amirite?
[01:08] <ianorlin> yeah it just makes it a pain
[01:09] <nhaines> I love Terry Pratchett, but I'll be damned if I'm rebuying 35 of his books so I can have them on my Kindle.
[01:10] <nhaines> Except for Good Omens which I rebought on accident but kept because it's awesome.  :P
[01:10] <akk> And then lose them again if you change platforms or if amazon decides to take them back.
[01:11] <nhaines> Unfortunately I bought all the paperbacks in physical stores so I can't even do the Matchbook thing, which BTW is a fantastic idea.
[01:11] <akk> What's Matchbook?
[01:11] <nhaines> I've determined, though, that it basically never makes any sense for me to ever physically publish anything unless it's a computer book that I can charge $45 for.
[01:12] <akk> I suspect if I publish any more books I'll self-publish with a place that does print-on-demand.
[01:13] <nhaines> akk: if Amazon sells a physical and a Kindle version of the same title, publishers can link the titles and set a price of free, $0.99, $1.99, or $2.99 for anyone who bought the physical book from Amazon.
[01:13] <ianorlin> I can understand realising ebooks once something goes out of print because reprints are really expensive
[01:13] <nhaines> As long as the promotional price is under 50% of the physical price.
[01:14] <nhaines> POD is cheap enough these days.
[01:14] <nhaines> Except that Amazon will only pay you 60% of the list price.
[01:14] <akk> Amazon is pretty evil. I should boycott them but ... I don't.
[01:15] <nhaines> A $2.99 Kindle book will get you about $2.06 royalty on each sale.
[01:15] <nhaines> Donno about evil.  They're very efficient.
[01:15] <akk> I was just reading some articles this morning about how they strong-arm publishers into undercutting themselves.
[01:16] <akk> Like, they'll hang onto a shipment for a month and not ship it out to customers to punish a publisher for not giving Amazon a better deal than everyone else.
[01:17] <nhaines> I know a handful of people who make livings writing short stories and self-publishing them.  It's work, but it's pretty lucrative.
[01:17] <nhaines> akk: yeah, that's shady.
[01:22] <Roguehorse> Doesn't a lot of it just come down to who will be willing to pay the fee (knowing it supports the artist financially) or those willing to work to get the product for free?
[01:22] <nhaines> Through traditional publishing you're lucky to get an 8% royalty for your first book.  The good news is that you'll get an advance that usually won't be earned out.  The bad news is... that's probably all you get.
[01:22] <Roguehorse> sneaking into the movie or concert...same thing
[01:23] <nhaines> Roguehorse: not necessarily.  When I played a lot of PC games I routinely bought a game and then immediately cracked it so I didn't have to swap out disks constantly.
[01:23] <akk> Roguehorse: The sad thing about DRM is that paying the fee may get you the version that requires more work.
[01:23] <nhaines> akk: precisely.
[01:24] <Roguehorse> I understand the disk thing, did that myself a few times. However, did I make copies for all my friends so they didn't have to buy the game like I did? No
[01:25] <akk> Roguehorse: What we'd like is a way to pay the fee, support the author, and in return get the more functional copy that works everywhere.
[01:25] <akk> Not so we can copy it and illegally distribute it, but so that we can read it using a device and app that's comfortable to use.
[01:25] <Roguehorse> But how can we guarantee someone won't abuse that?
[01:25] <akk> You can't guarantee it with DRM either.
[01:25] <nhaines> Roguehorse: there's no way to do that in any case.
[01:26] <Roguehorse> No, it's their only solution right now
[01:26] <akk> As nhaines said earlier, DRM only punishes the law-abiding person. Anyone else can easily get the book somewhere else without it.
[01:26] <Roguehorse> Dead tree versions are hard to copy (but not impossible)
[01:26] <nhaines> No they're not.  Throw it on a scanner, OCR it.
[01:27] <nhaines> Put on Netflix or music and it's not even boring.
[01:27] <Roguehorse> That's a lot of work
[01:27] <akk> Yeah, there are two books in the local library that I really want to copy ... out of print, can't buy one of my own, at least not for anything near a reasonable price.
[01:27] <akk> So we may need to do some dead-tree book copying.
[01:27] <Roguehorse> how many people do you know are willing to go through all that?
[01:27] <nhaines> There only needs to be one before it's a free PDF.
[01:27] <akk> I find copying books extremely tedious.
[01:27] <Roguehorse> true
[01:28] <akk> I scanned a bunch of images from an old (enough to be public domain) book recently.
[01:28] <Roguehorse> but, then we come back to our own use and sharing what we aren't supposed to
[01:28] <akk> Legal, but it was a huge PITA and I only did it because the other available copies were crappy.
[01:28] <nhaines> You're allowed to share any book for any amount of time for any reason.
[01:28] <nhaines> (It's duplicating that's not kosher.)
[01:28] <akk> nhaines: Only if it's a dead-tree book, of course. If it's a DRMed ebook you mostly can't share it at all.
[01:29] <ianorlin> my brother actually scans things legally in a library
[01:29] <akk> (unless you share the physical reader device along with it)
[01:29] <Roguehorse> oh yeah, they've allowed scanning pages from books for decades
[01:29] <akk> And if it's a DRMed ebook you mostly can't check it out from a library, either.
[01:29] <nhaines> akk: at least Amazon Kindle allows lending.  :)  But for one week once time to any individual is sort of ridiculous.  :P
[01:30] <Roguehorse> nhaines: I've never tried that
[01:30] <akk> Yeah, I consider that not allowing lending.
[01:30] <nhaines> akk: actually, the only ebooks the libraries around here support are DRMed.
[01:30] <akk> My mom wanted to share books with me, but the restrictions made it not useful at all.
[01:30] <nhaines> Pretty much.
[01:30] <akk> nhaines: Have you ever tried to check out one of those DRMed ebooks from a library? Just try it, I challenge you.
[01:30] <ianorlin> drm costs to implement and makes your book less valueable to consumers
[01:30] <nhaines> akk: it was trivial.
[01:31] <akk> I challenge you to: think of a specific book you want to check out, find it in a library available for checkout, and actually check it out.
[01:31] <nhaines> akk: I even read a few pages.  :)
[01:31] <ianorlin> I like using creative commons pdfs to test out pdf readers in development relases
[01:31] <akk> I actually did manage it once. Every other time I've tried it, it's been impossible to find any book I remotely wanted to read that way.
[01:31] <Roguehorse> my family still checks out childrens books for my son
[01:31] <nhaines> akk: well, I was lucky that the book I wanted was available.  So that was a plus.
[01:31] <Roguehorse> I chuckle
[01:32] <akk> And the one time I managed it, every few days it would mysteriously disappear from my device and I'd have to spend 45 minutes
[01:32] <akk> re-checking it out, then painstakingly trying to get back to where I was in the book
[01:32] <nhaines> Roguehorse: oh, that's a fantastic way to read books.  Children's books are extortionate.  :P
[01:32] <akk> (which was hard because their proprietary reader app didn't have a working "go to page number" let alone "remember position" or "remember bookmark")
[01:32] <nhaines> akk: on Kindle it was easy.  the book is even *still* on my device, although it says "loan expired".
[01:32] <Roguehorse> nhaines: : )
[01:33] <akk> This was on android, using ... /me looks up the app name
[01:33] <Roguehorse> nhaines: ?? and still readable?
[01:33] <akk> Blio
[01:33] <nhaines> Roguehorse: presumably not.  But all the metadata is still there.  I could either check it out again or purchase it from Amazon.
[01:33] <Roguehorse> Ah
[01:34] <ianorlin> Why do I sort of want to realease an ebook under a liscense that only prohibits distributing it with drm
[01:34] <akk> nhaines: What library? I'm curious. I've tried it with Mountain View, San Jose, Santa Clara county, Burbank, LA County and Glendale.
[01:34] <nhaines> My friend's kid couldn't read after Kindergarten.  I made his parents buy a phonics series, then hit the library and the dollar bookstore alternately.  He reads superbly in both English and German, a little less than a year later.
[01:34] <akk> Oh, and Cupertino.
[01:35] <nhaines> akk: Orange County Public Library System.
[01:35] <akk> Ah, never tried that one.
[01:35] <pleia2> nhaines: that's pretty impressive, the phonics stuff was before my time so it took me until 3rd grade
[01:36] <Roguehorse> It was too long ago for me to remember - I feel old
[01:36] <nhaines> Donno, I taught myself to read with books on tape by the time I was 4.
[01:37] <pleia2> I'm dyslexic, so I had a pretty rough time of it (fortunately I went to a good school so they got me on track after a few years)
[01:37] <ianorlin> I think I was reading in first grade but don't quite remember
[01:37] <ianorlin> my handwriting is still really hard to read
[01:37] <Roguehorse> good deal, my niece has that issue. The school system fumbled it for a long time
[01:37] <nhaines> Luckily, he would enjoy working out words once he got into it... he likes figuring out puzzles.  So it'd be a mix of reading to him with a finger under the word, making him read, and trading off.
[01:38] <pleia2> nhaines: puzzles were the key to my success too :)
[01:38] <Roguehorse> My son just wants to be able to type his own searches into our tablet
[01:38] <pleia2> I think some brains just work differently, it's all good as long as the student gets some kind of attention they need
[01:39] <Roguehorse> pleia2: +1
[01:39] <nhaines> ianorlin: I need to work with him on handwriting some more.  I keep telling him there's *no* easier way to write letters than the way I do it.
[01:39]  * ianorlin wonders how young people are before they start using command line
[01:39] <nhaines> "If there were a lazier way, *I* would be doing it, and that'd what I'd teach you instead."
[01:39] <rww> typing
[01:39] <rww> :P
[01:39]  * pleia2 pulls up a rocking chair and tells ianorlin about how her first computer only had a command line
[01:40] <Roguehorse> ianorlin: tablet, and point-and-click
[01:40] <akk> pleia2: And only a line editor! None of this newfangled vi stuff!
[01:40] <rww> pleia2: ps i found a new person for next month's ubuntu hour
[01:40] <rww> pleia2: her name is elky you may have heard of her
[01:41] <rww> (she's flying in on the 27th, we have an appointment at the courthouse on the 28th :3)
[01:41] <pleia2> akk: mine was DOS so it came with WordPerfect 4 or something
[01:41] <pleia2> rww: AAAAH I AM SO EXCITED :D
[01:41] <rww> ikr :D
[01:41] <Roguehorse> Commodore64 and  a casette drive
[01:42] <nhaines> What *really* annoyed me is when he'd read a word like Wind (means "wind", sounds like "vint") and he'd pronounce the "d" wrong, I'd correct him, he'd repeat it wrong, but when the ELECTRONIC PEN said it right, he'd repeat it right.  :P
[01:42] <pleia2> nhaines: must be your accent
[01:42] <elky> i'm not even in the country yet and he's already volunteering me for something?
[01:42] <pleia2> elky: just an attendee, don't worry, you don't have to run anything for another month
[01:42] <elky> lol
[01:42] <rww> when's the next election?
[01:42] <rww> b/c she's running in that too
[01:42] <elky> oh gods
[01:42] <pleia2> lol
[01:43] <rww> (not kidding, i'm going to bribe her or something)
[01:43] <rww> MOAR CANDIDATES
[01:43] <pleia2> october or so
[01:43] <nhaines> pleia2: that'd be one thing.  But /d/ vs. /t/ is another.  Although there was one time where he did get upset over "Erdnußbutter."  I kept covering more of the word for him to try to sound out until we got down to "Erd" and I would say /ert/.
[01:44]  * rww ponders Erdnußbutter
[01:44] <nhaines> And finally he got upset and said "Where's the 'tuh'?"
[01:44] <nhaines> And I explained that final d in a word or syllable is unvoiced.
[01:44] <nhaines> Which is not how I explained it.  :P
[01:44] <pleia2> hehe
[01:45] <nhaines> rww: Erd is "earth", Nuß is "nut", Butter is "butter", Erdnuß is peanut, and Erdnußbutter is peanut butter, which is an import luxury food in Germany. :P
[01:45] <rww> oic
[01:45] <pleia2> I was gonna say, they don't have peanut butter in europe
[01:46] <pleia2> I remember when we were at UDS in Brussels and we went to a chocolate shop, one of the people with us "Do you have anything with peanut butter?" store clerk was like "AMERICANS!"
[01:46] <nhaines> haha
[01:46] <pleia2> "and no, have some hazelnut"
[01:46]  * akk boggles
[01:47] <rww> hehe
[01:47] <pleia2> then we got some waffles lit on fire and drank a lot, I enjoyed Brussels
[01:47] <akk> ooh, I never got waffles lit on fire
[01:47] <akk> though I did have lots of very excellent non-burning waffles.
[01:47] <pleia2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_QgJb6CowQ
[01:47] <darthrobot> Title: [Flaming waffles in Brussels - YouTube]
[01:48] <nhaines> Likewise, Erd is "earth", Beere (sounds like: 'BAY-ruh")is "berry", and Erdbeere is "strawberry".
[01:48] <pleia2> mmm Erdbeere
[01:48] <nhaines> pleia2: I took Knott's boysenberry preserves with me to Germany.  It was a big hit.
[01:48] <akk> haha, I just showed the video to d and said "I went to the wrong restaurant"
[01:49] <nhaines> haha
[01:49] <akk> d: "What difference would it make?"
[01:49] <akk> me: "It's cool! It's FLAMING!"
[01:49] <akk> d: Oh. *eyeroll*
[01:49] <pleia2> yeah, it was mostly just cool :)
[01:49] <rww> or hot
[01:50] <pleia2> they poured some kind of alcohol on it to get it to flame up, but after it mostly burns off and you cover it in cream and berries you can't taste any different really
[01:50] <Roguehorse> no PB in Europe? Really?
[01:50] <akk> I'd take hazelnut or almond butter over PB any day ... but I think of PB as a cheap ubiquitous stable.
[01:50] <akk> The others are exotic expensive treats.
[01:50] <nhaines> Roguehorse: yup.  Not in a normal market or it's very expensive.
[01:51] <Roguehorse> When I went to China in 04 we went to McD and there was no beef available. It was weird.
[01:51] <ianorlin> I think that varies a lot
[01:51] <nhaines> Everyone in Germany drives BMWs and Mercerdes, too.  Because they're domestic.  :P
[01:51]  * ianorlin actaully hasn't been overseas
[01:51] <pleia2> nhaines: taxis too!
[01:51] <nhaines> pleia2: yes!
[01:51] <nhaines> German McDonalds has real bread.
[01:52]  * ianorlin is to hot to go into detail about how my mom went crazy and bought a bmw
[01:52] <Roguehorse> any Opal's still on the road over there?
[01:52] <pleia2> McDonalds does regional things even stateside, during the season they even have lobster rolls some years in Maine :)
[01:52] <nhaines> Also maybe beer.  I think we drove through.  We wouldn't have stopped there but we were going to be late to see Terminator 3.  Which was not dubbed by Arnold, which was weird.  :)
[01:52] <akk> Lobster rolls in McD's? wow.
[01:52] <Roguehorse> pleia2: neat!
[01:52] <pleia2> ianorlin: plenty of time, I never left the country (not even Canada) until I was 27
[01:52] <akk> pleia2: You're definitely making up for lost time.
[01:53]  * pleia2 has two more continents to cross off her list
[01:53] <nhaines> I'll say.
[01:53] <nhaines> Some time I need to have another currywurst from a street vendor.
[01:53] <pleia2> antarctica is taking some planning, I'm thinking a cruise
[01:53] <nhaines> Or Dönerkebab!
[01:53] <nhaines> pleia2: parasail.
[01:53]  * pleia2 dresses warmly
[01:54] <pleia2> my husband doesn't want to go because he thinks it will be too intense
[01:55] <pleia2> plus only small ships go down there and he gets seasick
[01:55] <Roguehorse> pleia2: Yeah, not for me.
[01:55]  * ianorlin wonders if people go who get carsick text and drive less
[01:55] <nhaines> pleia2: just tell him after the third or fourth time his stomach will be empty so, like, after that it won't hardly even be a thing.
[01:56] <elky> someone just started a countdown in hours
[01:56] <pleia2> nhaines: haha
[01:57] <nhaines> Next time I go on an Amazon spree I need to remember to generate affiliate links that I use myself.
[01:59] <akk> They won't let you do that ... unless you fool them by making another account not tied to the affiliate account.
[01:59] <akk> But it's violating the TOS so if they find out they might cancel the affiliate account or something.
[01:59] <akk> Here, use mine. :)
[01:59] <nhaines> Ha  :)
[01:59] <nhaines> I don't think it's against the TOS.  I'll have to check.
[02:00] <akk> It was last time I looked, and they sent out something specifically saying you couldn't buy using your own account.
[02:00] <nhaines> I mean, I *do* use the account for legitimate trying to convince other people to buy.  I have 5 clicks this month!
[02:00] <akk> Of course using a friend's account is perfectly legal ... not sure about if it's a spouse or something.
[02:01] <akk> They'd probably notice if it shipped to the same address.
[02:09] <nhaines> akk: Qualifying Purchases exclude, and we will not pay advertising fees on any of, the following: any Product purchased through a Special Link by you or on your behalf, including Products you purchase through Special Links for yourself, friends, relatives, or associates (e.g., personal orders, orders for your own use, and orders placed by you for or on behalf of any other person or entity);
[02:09] <nhaines> Rats.  Well, good thing I've always forgotten to do that then.  :)
[02:24] <Roguehorse> The affiliate programs are "really" tight about what's accepted and what's not (and they do follow up)
[02:29] <nhaines> With good reason.
[02:29] <nhaines> I just don't link to Amazon without doing a referral link anymore.  They money's earmarked for *someone*.  May as well be me.
[02:32] <Roguehorse> I did a few books from Amazon. Handy to have them on all my devices. I have so many now I have yet to go through though...
[02:38] <nhaines> My friend's kid saw my Juju shirt and asked me about the "Skynet" step.  Then I had to explain Terminator 2 to him.
[02:38] <nhaines> It turns out it's really difficult to explain to a 7yo why people wouldn't trust computers infiltrating every aspect of human life.
[02:39] <nhaines> We watched pretty much the only appropriate scene from the movie without getting parental permission to watch the entire thing: the scene where the T-1000 morphs through the barred gate but his gun gets stuck.
[02:40] <nhaines> We'll watch the whole thing some time but having finished Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, Ghostbusters is probably next on the list.
[02:40] <akk> You couldn't just explain it like "evil robots"?
[02:41] <nhaines> akk: he's not afraid of robots.
[02:41] <akk> We just watched Ghostbusters again. It doesn't hold up as well as I thought it would.
[02:41] <nhaines> LIES!
[02:41] <akk> Well, see what you think, maybe you won't agree.
[02:41] <akk> It wasn't awful.
[02:42] <nhaines> I had the same problem trying to explain why GLaDOS singing was meaningful.  He hadn't seen 2001 and doesn't understand why a talking computer would be scary because he talks to Google Now constantlly.
[02:42] <akk> The Terminator movies hold up very well, though.
[02:42] <akk> Well, Hal isn't scary because he talks, he's scary because of what he's trying to do.
[02:43] <Roguehorse> Try War Games
[02:43] <akk> Oh, yeah, I should watch that again.
[02:43] <nhaines> Yes, but that's based on the notion of a sentient computer when most people had never seen one.  I wonder if TRON makes any sense nowadays either.
[02:43] <akk> Of course parts of it were always cheesy.
[02:43] <Roguehorse> I just finished Jobs the other day. Good flick
[02:44] <akk> Tron never made any sense to begin with. :)
[02:44] <nhaines> I think we watched the Slimer scene from Ghostbusters and he wasn't scared.  So that's a go.
[02:44] <akk> Scenes like that are still funny.
[02:44] <Roguehorse> I tried The Matrix a couple days ago, still too predictable
[02:44] <akk> And the ghost that eats everything in sight.
[02:45] <nhaines> When he was 6 if he got scared he'd run and hide in his closet.
[02:45] <akk> I always thought the Matrix was pretty silly, the whole energy thing never made any sense.
[02:45] <Roguehorse> nhaines: Ah man!
[02:45] <akk> I was probably about 6-7 when Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was my big scary movie.
[02:46] <akk> Stuff like getting stuck in the chocolate tube or blowing up into a big bubble.
[02:46] <nhaines> akk: the room with the bubbles and the fan are hardcore.
[02:46] <pleia2> akk: the worst part about everyone watching Ghostbusters again is now *everyone* is in on why we call the OpenStack gatekeeper software we use Zuul ;)
[02:46] <nhaines> I went fake skydiving last year and I managed to straighten out and launch up past the wind chamber and into the next segment with the fans.  That movie was all I could think of.
[02:47] <akk> pleia2: heh, yeah. And the lines at the beginning of mozilla xul files.
[02:47] <pleia2> hehe
[02:47] <nhaines> pleia2: if you take apart a Firefox XUL file, it sas "There is no data, there is only XUL."  :)
[02:47] <pleia2> nice
[02:47] <Roguehorse> Oh geez
[03:01] <Roguehorse> brb.......Big Bang Theory is on : )
[03:06] <jyo> rww: Are you saying we'll actually have a real election next year? :O
[03:06] <nhaines> Ha.
[03:40] <nhaines> pleia2: how many pizzas did you do for your release party and how many people did you anticipate?
[03:41] <pleia2> nhaines: eleven 18" pizzas cut into 12 slices, anticipated 50 people
[03:42]  * ianorlin thinks he will be getting up at 4:30 on the day of the installfest and watch formula 1 in monaco then drive the 91 down to the 57
[03:42] <nhaines> Awesome, thanks.  :)  How'd that work out foodwise?
[03:42] <nhaines> ianorlin: please email me if you're going to be there.  I haven't gotten any volunteer confirmations.  :)
[03:42] <pleia2> worked out well, I was worried it would be too much :)
[03:42] <nhaines> Just one confirmation, I mean.
[03:42] <nhaines> pleia2: that's good.  :)
[03:43] <nhaines> Also there's no such thing!
[03:43] <pleia2> also brought along tortilla chips and salsa (spent a total of about $10 on those at costco) and 120 cookies
[03:43] <pleia2> 2 trays of 60 cookies, I could have done with half that
[03:43] <nhaines> We're going to have coffee and donuts.  So pizza will be on top of that.
[03:43] <nhaines> Except that I'm not paying for pizza, so let's hope the reimbursement request works out.  :P
[03:44] <pleia2> yeah, canonical covered pizza, I got the chips and cookies, venue got drinks (non-alcoholic)
[03:44]  * pleia2 seeks dinner
[03:45] <ryaxnb9> release party?
[03:46] <nhaines> Also Papa Johns has a "Residence/Business/University/Military" radio button, and when I said "University" it changed to dropdowns and I just picked California, CSUF, McCarthy Hall, and I just had to put in the room number.  This makes me ridiculously happy.
[03:51] <rww> jyo: that's my secret plan!
[03:51] <nhaines> Ooh, these are expensive enough I might be able to use a smaller pizza joint that has far better pizza.  Yay.
[03:52] <nhaines> Hmm, maybe not.  Well, we'll see.
[04:02] <nhaines> Aww, they don't deliver anyway.  Shame.
[04:03] <nhaines> rww: did you know that IPv6 is far more secure than IPv4?
[04:04] <ianorlin> nhaines I want to know how
[04:04] <nhaines> ianorlin: yes, it's because nobody understands how IPv6 works, so no one can hack you.
[17:13] <grantbow> anyone in Sonoma or Marin? My brother in law just moved to San Rafael.
[17:13] <grantbow> I just responded to the email question on our list.
[17:18] <Roguehorse> Hey Grant, what's going on?
[17:23] <grantbow> list traffic. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca
[17:23] <darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu-us-ca Info Page]
[17:24] <grantbow> :-)