| CarlFK | cjenkin2: I think you misread - where to you see: won't be able to preseed these using any method besides through the initrd, | 00:43 |
|---|---|---|
| cjenkin2 | CarlFK: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html | 00:45 |
| cjenkin2 | Under the heading "Localization" | 00:45 |
| CarlFK | this? "Setting localization values will only work if you are using initrd preseeding. With all other methods the preconfiguration file will only be loaded after these questions have been asked. " | 00:48 |
| cjenkin2 | Right | 00:49 |
| cjenkin2 | Am I misreading it? | 00:49 |
| CarlFK | yes ;) | 00:49 |
| cjenkin2 | You think you could help me read it correctly? xD What's the difference between localization values and selecting locale, language, keyboard? | 00:50 |
| CarlFK | I thinks so.. I am not an expert, but I know a bit about it | 00:51 |
| CarlFK | are you installing 12.10? | 00:51 |
| cjenkin2 | No, 10.10 | 00:52 |
| cjenkin2 | on an ARM architecture, even | 00:53 |
| CarlFK | oh my ;) Some of the keys (that's what I call the preseed file: keys and values) some of the keys may have changed | 00:56 |
| infinity | 10.10? Seriously? | 00:57 |
| cjenkin2 | That wouldn't surprise me. | 00:57 |
| infinity | Are you familiar with the concept of EOL software? | 00:57 |
| cjenkin2 | infinity: Yup. And Linux kernel 2.6.38, even | 00:57 |
| cjenkin2 | Yes, but the higher-ups think Canonical will host it forever regardless, and / or are willing to host it themselves if necessary | 00:58 |
| infinity | Erm, hosting isn't the issue, no one's FIXING it. | 00:58 |
| infinity | It's riddled with security holes. | 00:58 |
| antarus | isn't it beer oclock anyways? :p | 00:59 |
| cjenkin2 | lol | 01:00 |
| cjenkin2 | I don't think anyone's too concerned at this point about the security issues | 01:00 |
| CarlFK | https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10 "The requested URL /10.10 was not found on this server." | 01:00 |
| cjenkin2 | oh dear | 01:00 |
| CarlFK | in case the higher ups need some evidince | 01:00 |
| CarlFK | so not having the docs is going to add to the fun | 01:00 |
| cjenkin2 | We have PowerDeveloper, it's fine | 01:00 |
| cjenkin2 | --sarcasm | 01:01 |
| infinity | cjenkin2: You really, really should talk these higher ups into basing their work on an LTS (12.04 or 14.04) | 01:01 |
| infinity | Anyhow, the claim that you need to us initrd or cmdline presseing for locales may well be true. | 01:01 |
| antarus | base it on 10.04, that was na lts! | 01:01 |
| infinity | Not that cmdline preseeding is hard. | 01:01 |
| antarus | you have a good 10 months left ;p | 01:01 |
| infinity | antarus: I'm not sure if I should palm my own face, or yours. | 01:02 |
| cjenkin2 | lol | 01:02 |
| infinity | antarus: Can we settle on both? | 01:02 |
| CarlFK | antarus: oh right.. and there are docs | 01:02 |
| CarlFK | https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html | 01:02 |
| CarlFK | cjenkin2: I think what is confusing you: | 01:03 |
| cjenkin2 | CarlFK: Ah, thanks! I trusted my former co-worker to link the the appropriate tutorial, should have checked the version | 01:03 |
| CarlFK | some values get asked before the preseed file can be loaded - good example is dhcp/static can not be read from a preseed file hosted on an http server | 01:04 |
| CarlFK | so in that case, the network settings have to be passed some other way | 01:04 |
| antarus | infinity: slap me? how dare you | 01:04 |
| CarlFK | like on the kernel line | 01:04 |
| antarus | infinity: sadly I am moving on from the land of Goobuntu, so I may troll in here less often | 01:04 |
| cjenkin2 | CarlFK: I have a question about that actually. It seems strange to me to set one-time preseed values from the kernel bootargs | 01:05 |
| CarlFK | cjenkin2: keep in mind it is the line that boots the installer, not the kernel that gets installed | 01:06 |
| infinity | antarus: Aww. What's the next career move for you? | 01:06 |
| cjenkin2 | CarlFK: I should direct you again to my earlier comment: we install our OS onto the machine first, then re-run ubiquity | 01:07 |
| antarus | infinity: I'll be on the team that runs blobstore at google | 01:07 |
| cjenkin2 | Wait, can you set the installer bootargs, have that configured as the default, then have it still be the default when you re-run? | 01:07 |
| infinity | antarus: I can only assume that's the codename for an online grocery store targetted at the average American? | 01:07 |
| CarlFK | cjenkin2: oh. I thought that was a workaround to not being able to do someting | 01:08 |
| antarus | infinity: oh no thats the real name of thing | 01:08 |
| infinity | antarus: Oh, like a storage thing, I guess? | 01:08 |
| antarus | yeah | 01:08 |
| cjenkin2 | CarlFK: Nope. I think it was done in order to pre-image the hardware and give it to customers | 01:08 |
| infinity | cjenkin2: Err, wait, if you're using oem-config, why would you be preseeding locale? | 01:09 |
| CarlFK | I like cinder block better. reminds me of the book shelves you build out of cinder blocks :D | 01:09 |
| infinity | cjenkin2: That's the whole POINT of oem-config, is to let the user pick. | 01:09 |
| cjenkin2 | I would like to set defaults with preseeding, is all | 01:09 |
| cjenkin2 | In particular, | 01:09 |
| cjenkin2 | we have a stupid keyboard that I had to make a special layout for | 01:10 |
| cjenkin2 | And I would like this to be the default layout at config time | 01:10 |
| cjenkin2 | Also it's intended for Spanish speakers, but the default is US / English | 01:11 |
| infinity | So, I kinda missed the bit where you're using oem-config before. The magic (relative term here) of oem-config is that it's operating on an already-installed system. | 01:11 |
| infinity | So, you install, you can configure things a certain way, then oem-config-prepare. | 01:11 |
| infinity | Which means between "install" and "prepare" would be where you'd configure your weird keyboard. | 01:11 |
| cjenkin2 | Yes. And so the selected configuration will be the default when I run oem-config-prepare ? | 01:12 |
| infinity | Possibly. | 01:12 |
| xnox | infinity: cjenkin2: there is hidden magic to trigger pre-seeding oem-config end-user setup. This way keys that are preseeded are not asked for, but everything else is. (if any) | 01:12 |
| infinity | xnox: Keep in mind he's doing this on 10.10 (yes, really), so if oem-config works at all, it could be a mirable. | 01:12 |
| infinity | Or a miracle. | 01:12 |
| cjenkin2 | xnox: I want the user to still make the choice | 01:13 |
| cjenkin2 | My logic is: the keyboard is stupid and most people type from muscle memory, so they should have the option of selecting a keyboard that is they way their fingers work | 01:13 |
| cjenkin2 | but it seems like the default should be what's actually on the printed keyboard | 01:13 |
| cjenkin2 | infinity: Alright, I think I will try making the installer bootargs preseed keyboard, layout, and locale | 01:15 |
| xnox | cjenkin2: passing d-i locale and keyboard config on the kernel cmdline should achieve that, i think. | 01:15 |
| cjenkin2 | and see if oem-config-prepare respects these choices | 01:15 |
| xnox | yeah, that's the best strategy. | 01:15 |
| cjenkin2 | xnox: Cool :) | 01:15 |
| infinity | If it doesn't, you can just keep it on the cmdline for the firstboot too. :P | 01:15 |
| infinity | Oh, but I dunno if oem-config reads cmdline. | 01:16 |
| infinity | Well, this'll all be experimentation anyway. | 01:16 |
| cjenkin2 | infinity: Right | 01:16 |
| infinity | Even if we all knew how it all works in oem-config in 14.04 (which, clearly, even the people who wrote half of it are fuzzy on), none of us have a clue how 10.10 works anymore. :) | 01:16 |
| infinity | Have I mentioned yet that you should use a newer Ubuntu? :) | 01:17 |
| cjenkin2 | Thank you guys for being so helpful! :) | 01:17 |
| cjwatson | If pressed to ask without looking at the code, I'd be inclined to preseed oem-config by way of debconf-set-selections or similar, rather than by hoping that things like kernel args will work. | 01:17 |
| cjenkin2 | infinity: lol. I'll talk to my bosses, but we have very few people to work on this | 01:17 |
| cjwatson | Should be more reliable. | 01:17 |
| infinity | If it's just a question of having a crappy vendor kernel you can't upgrade, precise's userspace should be perfectly fine with a 2.6.38 kernel. | 01:17 |
| cjwatson | s/to ask/to answer/ | 01:18 |
| infinity | cjenkin2: Right, debconf-set-selections was sort of what I was driving at with the "set it before running oem-config-prepare". | 01:18 |
| infinity | Err.. | 01:18 |
| infinity | cjwatson: ^ | 01:18 |
| infinity | Or similar. | 01:18 |
| cjwatson | I don't recall for certain whether it works at all though; I think in particular there has been a tension between "make default keyboard in oem-config respect preseeded value" and "make default keyboard in oem-config be something that's reasonable for the locale you picked" | 01:19 |
| cjenkin2 | infinity, cjwatson: I see. I will look at that then | 01:19 |
| cjwatson | And since both of those end up being communicated by basically the same mechanism, it's a tough problem to resolve | 01:19 |
| cjwatson | (This is all from n-year-old memory though) | 01:19 |
| cjenkin2 | Anyway, thanks again you guys :) | 01:22 |
| cjenkin2 | In addition to grunt programmer I am also errand-runner, so I have to go FedEx some machines now | 01:24 |
| cjwatson | Preseeding the locale at least should work | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | Good luck | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | (And I think oem-config forces re-asking questions in many cases, but failing that, you can preseed a question and then preseed its seen flag to false; debconf-set-selections(1) has an example) | 01:26 |
| infinity | cjwatson: He wants it to be seen, just with a different default. I think. | 01:31 |
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