[00:43] <CarlFK> cjenkin2: I think you misread - where to you see: won't be able to preseed these using any method besides through the initrd,
[00:45] <cjenkin2> CarlFK: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html
[00:45] <cjenkin2> Under the heading "Localization"
[00:48] <CarlFK> this?  "Setting localization values will only work if you are using initrd preseeding. With all other methods the preconfiguration file will only be loaded after these questions have been asked.  "
[00:49] <cjenkin2> Right
[00:49] <cjenkin2> Am I misreading it?
[00:49] <CarlFK> yes ;)
[00:50] <cjenkin2> You think you could help me read it correctly? xD What's the difference between localization values and selecting locale, language, keyboard?
[00:51] <CarlFK> I thinks so.. I am not an expert, but I know a bit about it
[00:51] <CarlFK> are you installing 12.10?
[00:52] <cjenkin2> No, 10.10
[00:53] <cjenkin2> on an ARM architecture, even
[00:56] <CarlFK> oh my ;)  Some of the keys (that's what I call the preseed file: keys and values) some of the keys may have changed
[00:57] <infinity> 10.10?  Seriously?
[00:57] <cjenkin2> That wouldn't surprise me.
[00:57] <infinity> Are you familiar with the concept of EOL software?
[00:57] <cjenkin2> infinity: Yup. And Linux kernel 2.6.38, even
[00:58] <cjenkin2> Yes, but the higher-ups think Canonical will host it forever regardless, and / or are willing to host it themselves if necessary
[00:58] <infinity> Erm, hosting isn't the issue, no one's FIXING it.
[00:58] <infinity> It's riddled with security holes.
[00:59] <antarus> isn't it beer oclock anyways? :p
[01:00] <cjenkin2> lol
[01:00] <cjenkin2> I don't think anyone's too concerned at this point about the security issues
[01:00] <CarlFK> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10  "The requested URL /10.10 was not found on this server."
[01:00] <cjenkin2> oh dear
[01:00] <CarlFK> in case the higher ups need some evidince
[01:00] <CarlFK> so not having the docs is going to add to the fun
[01:00] <cjenkin2> We have PowerDeveloper, it's fine
[01:01] <cjenkin2> --sarcasm
[01:01] <infinity> cjenkin2: You really, really should talk these higher ups into basing their work on an LTS (12.04 or 14.04)
[01:01] <infinity> Anyhow, the claim that you need to us initrd or cmdline presseing for locales may well be true.
[01:01] <antarus> base it on 10.04, that was na lts!
[01:01] <infinity> Not that cmdline preseeding is hard.
[01:01] <antarus> you have a good 10 months left ;p
[01:02] <infinity> antarus: I'm not sure if I should palm my own face, or yours.
[01:02] <cjenkin2> lol
[01:02] <infinity> antarus: Can we settle on both?
[01:02] <CarlFK> antarus: oh right.. and there are docs
[01:02] <CarlFK> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html
[01:03] <CarlFK> cjenkin2: I think what is confusing you:
[01:03] <cjenkin2> CarlFK: Ah, thanks! I trusted my former co-worker to link the the appropriate tutorial, should have checked the version
[01:04] <CarlFK> some values get asked before the preseed file can be loaded - good example is dhcp/static can not be read from a preseed file hosted on an http server
[01:04] <CarlFK> so in that case, the network settings have to be passed some other way
[01:04] <antarus> infinity: slap me? how dare you
[01:04] <CarlFK> like on the kernel line
[01:04] <antarus> infinity: sadly I am moving on from the land of Goobuntu, so I may troll in here less often
[01:05] <cjenkin2> CarlFK: I have a question about that actually. It seems strange to me to set one-time preseed values from the kernel bootargs
[01:06] <CarlFK> cjenkin2: keep in mind it is the line that boots the installer, not the kernel that gets installed
[01:06] <infinity> antarus: Aww.  What's the next career move for you?
[01:07] <cjenkin2> CarlFK: I should direct you again to my earlier comment: we install our OS onto the machine first, then re-run ubiquity
[01:07] <antarus> infinity: I'll be on the team that runs blobstore at google
[01:07] <cjenkin2> Wait, can you set the installer bootargs, have that configured as the default, then have it still be the default when you re-run?
[01:07] <infinity> antarus: I can only assume that's the codename for an online grocery store targetted at the average American?
[01:08] <CarlFK> cjenkin2: oh. I thought that was a workaround to not being able to do someting
[01:08] <antarus> infinity: oh no thats the real name of thing
[01:08] <infinity> antarus: Oh, like a storage thing, I guess?
[01:08] <antarus> yeah
[01:08] <cjenkin2> CarlFK: Nope. I think it was done in order to pre-image the hardware and give it to customers
[01:09] <infinity> cjenkin2: Err, wait, if you're using oem-config, why would you be preseeding locale?
[01:09] <CarlFK> I like cinder block better.  reminds me of the book shelves you build out of cinder blocks :D
[01:09] <infinity> cjenkin2: That's the whole POINT of oem-config, is to let the user pick.
[01:09] <cjenkin2> I would like to set defaults with preseeding, is all
[01:09] <cjenkin2> In particular,
[01:10] <cjenkin2> we have a stupid keyboard that I had to make a special layout for
[01:10] <cjenkin2> And I would like this to be the default layout at config time
[01:11] <cjenkin2> Also it's intended for Spanish speakers, but the default is US / English
[01:11] <infinity> So, I kinda missed the bit where you're using oem-config before.  The magic (relative term here) of oem-config is that it's operating on an already-installed system.
[01:11] <infinity> So, you install, you can configure things a certain way, then oem-config-prepare.
[01:11] <infinity> Which means between "install" and "prepare" would be where you'd configure your weird keyboard.
[01:12] <cjenkin2> Yes. And so the selected configuration will be the default when I run oem-config-prepare ?
[01:12] <infinity> Possibly.
[01:12] <xnox> infinity: cjenkin2: there is hidden magic to trigger pre-seeding oem-config end-user setup. This way keys that are preseeded are not asked for, but everything else is. (if any)
[01:12] <infinity> xnox: Keep in mind he's doing this on 10.10 (yes, really), so if oem-config works at all, it could be a mirable.
[01:12] <infinity> Or a miracle.
[01:13] <cjenkin2> xnox: I want the user to still make the choice
[01:13] <cjenkin2> My logic is: the keyboard is stupid and most people type from muscle memory, so they should have the option of selecting a keyboard that is they way their fingers work
[01:13] <cjenkin2> but it seems like the default should be what's actually on the printed keyboard
[01:15] <cjenkin2> infinity: Alright, I think I will try making the installer bootargs preseed keyboard, layout, and locale
[01:15] <xnox> cjenkin2: passing d-i locale and keyboard config on the kernel cmdline should achieve that, i think.
[01:15] <cjenkin2> and see if oem-config-prepare respects these choices
[01:15] <xnox> yeah, that's the best strategy.
[01:15] <cjenkin2> xnox: Cool :)
[01:15] <infinity> If it doesn't, you can just keep it on the cmdline for the firstboot too. :P
[01:16] <infinity> Oh, but I dunno if oem-config reads cmdline.
[01:16] <infinity> Well, this'll all be experimentation anyway.
[01:16] <cjenkin2> infinity: Right
[01:16] <infinity> Even if we all knew how it all works in oem-config in 14.04 (which, clearly, even the people who wrote half of it are fuzzy on), none of us have a clue how 10.10 works anymore. :)
[01:17] <infinity> Have I mentioned yet that you should use a newer Ubuntu? :)
[01:17] <cjenkin2> Thank you guys for being so helpful! :)
[01:17] <cjwatson> If pressed to ask without looking at the code, I'd be inclined to preseed oem-config by way of debconf-set-selections or similar, rather than by hoping that things like kernel args will work.
[01:17] <cjenkin2> infinity: lol. I'll talk to my bosses, but we have very few people to work on this
[01:17] <cjwatson> Should be more reliable.
[01:17] <infinity> If it's just a question of having a crappy vendor kernel you can't upgrade, precise's userspace should be perfectly fine with a 2.6.38 kernel.
[01:18] <cjwatson> s/to ask/to answer/
[01:18] <infinity> cjenkin2: Right, debconf-set-selections was sort of what I was driving at with the "set it before running oem-config-prepare".
[01:18] <infinity> Err..
[01:18] <infinity> cjwatson: ^
[01:18] <infinity> Or similar.
[01:19] <cjwatson> I don't recall for certain whether it works at all though; I think in particular there has been a tension between "make default keyboard in oem-config respect preseeded value" and "make default keyboard in oem-config be something that's reasonable for the locale you picked"
[01:19] <cjenkin2> infinity, cjwatson: I see. I will look at that then
[01:19] <cjwatson> And since both of those end up being communicated by basically the same mechanism, it's a tough problem to resolve
[01:19] <cjwatson> (This is all from n-year-old memory though)
[01:22] <cjenkin2> Anyway, thanks again you guys :)
[01:24] <cjenkin2> In addition to grunt programmer I am also errand-runner, so I have to go FedEx some machines now
[01:25] <cjwatson> Preseeding the locale at least should work
[01:25] <cjwatson> Good luck
[01:26] <cjwatson> (And I think oem-config forces re-asking questions in many cases, but failing that, you can preseed a question and then preseed its seen flag to false; debconf-set-selections(1) has an example)
[01:31] <infinity> cjwatson: He wants it to be seen, just with a different default.  I think.