[05:38] <pitti> Good morning
[06:48] <Sweet5hark> Moin!
[07:02] <didrocks> hey Sweet5hark!
[07:02] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: heya. ;)
[07:03] <didrocks> how are you? ready for Malta?
[07:04] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: all prepared and ready to go ;) -- are you already there?
[07:04] <didrocks> Sweet5hark: no, only coming the second week as well
[07:04] <didrocks> so no week-end on the sand!
[07:05] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: oh, one thing is still missing: some slides for my idea on how to make all Ubuntu an image for the win. ;)
[07:06] <didrocks> Sweet5hark: I'm finishing some juju investigation (hopefully today, maybe a little tomorrow), and then, I'll write some slides on what I think we should do to make ubuntu the rocking android and cloud dev platform!
[07:06]  * didrocks likes and is excited about the topic! :)
[07:07] <RAOF> Sweet5hark: Oooh, you're the system-image dudeikins?
[07:09] <didrocks> hey RAOF! you will be in Malta next week as well, right?
[07:09] <RAOF> Yes indeedy!
[07:10] <didrocks> will be nice to see you! :)
[07:10] <Sweet5hark> RAOF: well, "system image" sounds wrong to me as I wouldnt make a separation between "system" and "other" ;)
[07:10] <RAOF> didrocks: Likewise!
[07:11] <RAOF> Sweet5hark: Well, I do need to keep some non-image data around, too :)
[07:11] <didrocks> who needs those :)
[07:11] <didrocks> you just need a login and password
[07:11] <didrocks> and everything will be in the cloud :p
[07:12] <RAOF> Still needs the cloud configuration! :P
[07:12] <didrocks> oh my! ;-)
[07:12] <Sweet5hark> RAOF: sure, separating data out -- but I would separate between e.g. "base system" and "applications".
[07:13] <Sweet5hark> s/would/wouldnt/
[07:13] <Sweet5hark> gah
[07:13]  * Sweet5hark graps caffeine ...
[07:13]  * RAOF is not sure how that would work, but will be excited to find out!
[07:15] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: FWIW I think I have a build fixing bug 1296715 and bug 1219245 on trusty, so its likely SRU time soon ...
[07:16] <didrocks> I guess that's for RAOF? I'm happily not on the SRU team :p
[07:17]  * didrocks should drop his MIR duty as well
[07:20] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: 'soon' means likely around next week for LibreOffice ;) -- there is an upstream point release update in the mix too, and there was upstream work on -kde integration, which was why I dropped a revert on the broken -kde state. Unfortuneately, with the point release the upstream state is still worse for -kde than with the revert ...
[07:21] <didrocks> Sweet5hark: ahah, I did remember having some "fun" for the cycle I maintained OOo at the time with the -kde part :)
[07:21] <didrocks> do you know if people using the -kde flavor or just use bare LibreOffice, even on KDE?
[07:22]  * Sweet5hark mumbles "kill it with fire" ...
[07:22] <didrocks> oh, it's in that great state? :)
[07:23] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: people on kde use the kde plugin, not the bare libreoffice one (which would have a Windows 95 feel on pure X11)
[07:23] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: they _could_ use the -gtk plugin on kde though and it would look decent.
[07:24] <didrocks> Sweet5hark: and the -gtk -> -qt theming doesn't make it look even more kdeish?
[07:25] <didrocks> IIRC, they have quite a good support for gtk apps under kde look&feel
[07:25] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: anyway, there are two people with kde-knowhow doing work on it upstream now (jmux from Munich and llunak from Collabora), so this should improve -- but unlikely to do so much for libreoffice 4.2
[07:25] <didrocks> yeah…
[07:26] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: yeah, the look wouldnt be the issue IMHO. But does e.g. kubuntu ship gnome libs? I really dont know ...
[07:26] <didrocks> well, glib for sure :)
[08:02] <Laney> hallo
[08:02] <didrocks> hey Laney! how was your week-end?
[08:02] <pitti> hey Laney
[08:02] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:02] <pitti> moin Sweet5hark
[08:03] <Laney> hey hey
[08:03] <Laney> it was extremely sunny (by my standards anyway)
[08:03] <Laney> → milkshakes in the sunshine
[08:03] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
[08:03] <didrocks> Laney: oh nice! :)
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney didrocks pitti
[08:04] <seb128> how are you?
[08:04] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:04] <Sweet5hark> pitti: heya!
[08:04] <pitti> seb128: je vais bien, merci ! nous avons eu un bon week-end
[08:04] <Laney> then some climbing, one or two beers and a nice bike ride yesterday including a hill that i was too scared to go down at full speed
[08:04] <Laney> what about you (all)?
[08:04] <pitti> j'attends avec impatience à vous recontrer vendredi !
[08:04] <Laney> oh also I'm on crappy 3g because my broadband has a fault this morning
[08:04]  * Laney lags uot
[08:05] <didrocks> Laney: when to 2 museums this week-end (it was the european night of museum). Was ok, but not that exciting TBH :)
[08:07] <seb128> pitti, pareil !
[08:10] <Laney> didrocks: oh, that's a shame!
[08:10] <Laney> I didn't hear about that
[08:11] <didrocks> Laney: I saw that some days ago in the newspapers
[08:12] <Sweet5hark> seb128:  Hey, I think I have fixed bug 1296715!
[08:12] <seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, nice!
[09:44] <ogra_> seb128, do you know if/what could process  XDG dirs (like Downloads, Video etc ) on login ? we i have seen it a few times that these dirs are non-existent on a phone boot ... yet they are created at image build time
[09:45] <ogra_> (so i assume something touches them on session start=
[09:45] <ogra_> )
[09:45] <seb128> ogra_, xdg-user-dirs(-gtk)
[09:45] <ogra_> is that run regardless ?
[09:46] <seb128> regardless ov what?
[09:46] <seb128> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs/ for details
[09:46] <ogra_> well, we dont really run a standard session start on the phone
[09:46] <seb128> it's an autostart desktop entry
[09:46] <ogra_> right, which we dont process i think
[09:47] <seb128> k
[09:47] <seb128> so maybe some random apps create those
[09:47] <ogra_> (thats why i ask :) )
[09:47] <seb128> like gallery
[09:47] <seb128> but what you wrote doesn't make sense
[09:47] <ogra_> hmm, but that wouldnt remove all of them
[09:47] <seb128> they are on the image
[09:47] <seb128> but removed at boot?
[09:47] <ogra_> right
[09:47] <seb128> yeah, dunno about that, nothing deletes those dirs
[09:47] <Laney> Xsession.d runs xdg-user-dirs-update
[09:48] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7487744/
[09:48] <ogra_> thats what we run during build time
[09:48] <ogra_> and usually people still have these dirs
[09:48] <ogra_> but sometimes i get reports where they are gone
[09:48] <ogra_> with the same image where they exist for others
[09:49] <ogra_> so some race removes them i guess ...
[09:49] <seb128> gone or renamed?
[09:49] <seb128> xdg-user-dirs-update is supposed to rename those to their localized version
[09:49] <ogra_> gone
[09:49] <seb128> but it does prompt through a GTK UI iirc
[09:49] <seb128> so I would expect that to fail/do nothing on the phone
[09:50] <ogra_> right for the renaming we ship /usr/share/upstart/sessions/xdg-dirs.conf
[09:50] <seb128> k, no idea what is happening htne
[09:50] <seb128> then
[09:50] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7487754/
[09:50] <seb128> is anyone seeing those removed with content?
[09:51] <seb128> like having their photos or music wipped out at some random boot?
[09:51] <ogra_> on first boot
[09:51] <ogra_> so no, no content then
[09:51] <seb128> only on first boot?
[09:51] <ogra_> well, thats usually when people contact me :)
[09:52] <seb128> weird
[09:52] <ogra_> davmor2 is just opening a bug now ... he just saw it
[09:52] <seb128> well, at least we don't have cases of users having their datas erased after a random reboot
[09:52] <ogra_> nope, thats usually after a fresh install
[09:52] <ogra_> at least for now nobody complained to me about removed data  :)
[09:52] <seb128> do we have any log showing if those ever existed?
[09:52] <seb128> like are they missing
[09:52] <seb128> or is something deleting them on login?
[09:52] <ogra_> we know that others that flash the same image have them
[09:53] <ogra_> thats what i suspect
[09:53] <seb128> and it's first boot
[09:53] <seb128> like no special tweak
[09:53] <ogra_> right
[09:53] <seb128> so random behaviour
[09:53] <seb128> weird
[09:53] <ogra_> seems to also only be a small fraction of people
[09:54] <ogra_> but i hear about it once every two weeks or so
[09:55]  * ogra_ will put it in the heisenbug category for now ... and wait til someone sees it again  
[09:55] <ogra_> i was just hoping you have an immediate idea or some such :)
[10:01] <seb128> yeah, I don't, sorry
[10:02] <ogra_> no worries
[15:54] <Laney> "<arch> build of …" emails are scary
[15:54] <Laney> just after doing a distro upload, but the relief when you see it's someone else's upload to a team ppa is nice
[16:07] <didrocks> ahah ;)
[16:07] <didrocks> I find the other way around worse
[16:08] <didrocks> like you upload some testing stuff to a ppa
[16:08] <didrocks> and you see the same source uploaded to the distro around the same time
[16:08] <didrocks> and just think "did I dput correctly?"
[16:10] <Laney> haha yes
[16:10] <Laney> fortunately both are pretty rare :P
[16:10] <didrocks> yep ;)
[19:06] <ry> ali1234, nothing that i'm aware of... a week or two ago i attempted to change the volume group name, and even though i updated fstab and i thought everything else relevant it rebooted to initramfs saying it couldn't find the ubuntu--vg-root, but i was able to use the lvm utility within initramfs and simply change the volume group back -- prior to this the system was still asking for my pw on boot though, which is why i was able
[19:06] <ry>  to change the volume group -- currently it's not asking for the pw and as a result there is nothing to se but a single encrypted sda3 (lvm is within the dmcrypted partition)
[19:06] <ali1234> ah...
[19:06] <ali1234> have you tried putting the vg name back?
[19:06] <ry> i changed itback originally, and have not attempted to change it again since
[19:07] <ali1234> hmm
[19:07] <ry> that was a good two weeks before this issue
[19:07] <ali1234> perhaps it is something to do with initrds
[19:08] <ali1234> it could be related to the vg stuff
[19:08] <ry> what controls the boot process on that level? -- when you have a full disk crypto ubuntu install and it prompts you for a pw during the boot, what prompts you for the pw? (becuse that is what -isn't- happening anymore)
[19:08] <ali1234> but the problem might not have happened until the next kernel update rebuilt the initrds
[19:08] <ry> ahh
[19:08] <ali1234> all that stuff is in the initrd afaik
[19:08] <ali1234> which is rebuilt on kernel update from various config files
[19:08] <ali1234> more than that i do not know
[19:08]  * ry searches for initrd_for_dummies.pdf
[19:09] <ali1234> the command is update-initramfs
[19:09] <ali1234> i've never used disk encryption though
[19:10] <ali1234> do yo have multiple kernels installed at the grub menu? try booting an older one if so?
[19:10] <ry> i think i just had the one it was using and a *-recovery one
[19:10] <ry> i tried all the options
[19:11] <ali1234> that's probably not it then
[19:11] <ry> i did try a live cd,and chrooting the sda3 after i decrypted it and then running update-initramfs (based on some reference articles/posts i found)
[19:11] <ry> but nothing worked
[19:11] <ry> i'm sure at this point it was in large part due to my lack of understanding of initramfs
[19:11] <ali1234> initramfs is a tiny root filesystem with just enough stuff to boot the real system
[19:12] <ali1234> it is the envorinment you are inside when it fails to boot
[19:12] <ali1234> that is all in ram
[19:12] <ry> i was unable to do anything useful from it, other than being able to change the lvm volume group in one occasion
[19:12] <ry> yeah
[19:12] <ali1234> you should be able to examine some log files at least... like dmesg
[19:12] <ry> i guessed that much by the lack of logs and read only filesystem
[19:12] <ry> lol
[19:12] <ry> shit
[19:13] <ry> the one thing i didn't think of was dmesg
[19:13] <ry> i looked for logs but couldn't find any under initramfs
[19:13] <ali1234> it should say something about being unable to mount the root partition...
[19:13] <ali1234> try different vts too
[19:13] <ali1234> (alt-f1 to 12)
[19:13] <ali1234> sometimes the log is written directly to the vt, but not the default one
[19:13] <ry> well vts?
[19:14] <ry> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nr0e0pyh1oh8lyt/2014-05-13%2001.12.16.jpg
[19:14] <ry> forgive the focus
[19:14] <ry> that is where i was left
[19:14] <ali1234> yeah, press alt-f1, alt-f2, alt-f3 etc up to alt-f12
[19:14] <ali1234> the real log can be hidden on a different one
[19:15] <ry> lol damn
[19:15]  * ry makes note
[19:15] <ry> (hopefully that is mentioned in initrd_for_dummies.pdf)
[19:17] <ali1234> oh, did you do anything like install virtualbox or nvidia drivers, or other drivers like that?
[19:18] <ali1234> those will all cause the initrd to be rebuilt
[19:18] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure this is caused by the wrong vg name being stuck somewhere
[19:19] <ry> it's very possible that is what happened... i'm using the latest nvidia drivers for the nvs5400m w/ bumblebee and i also have zfsonlniux and vmware workstation installed... so it's likely during an update one of the modules updated the kernel
[19:20] <ry> i have no experience with full disk crypto, even less with LUKS
[19:20] <ali1234> kernel modules live in the initrd too, so updating them updates the initrd
[19:20] <ali1234> neither do it
[19:20] <ali1234> *i
[19:21] <ry> other than blowing up my poor thinkpad t430's ubuntu 14.04 install i like it so far
[19:21] <ry> lol
[19:21] <ry> i never thought i'd see the day where i was almost ok with using unity
[19:22] <ry> after endless attempts at making gnome-fallback not suck on 14.04 i refused to switch back to 12.04 so i figured i'd try to make unity work
[19:22] <ry> also... once i noticed you could modify UI elements using CSS that definitely added weight to my decisino
[19:22] <ali1234> i heartily recommend xubuntu
[19:23] <ry> the only thing i really can't stand is the "top bar" or whatever the gnome-panel equivalent on unity is called that can't be hidden/window dodged or removed
[19:23] <ali1234> just don't try to install it at the same time as unity (tedg: hint hint)
[19:23] <ry> i also tried xubuntu but absolutely hated what they did with it
[19:23] <ali1234> you can easily configure it back to a standard panel
[19:23] <ry> though i installed the non-ubuntu corrupted xfce4 on a ubuntu 14.04 server i setup over the weekend and i'm fine with that over xrdp at least
[19:23] <ali1234> in fact i wrote a piece of software specifically for this purpose
[19:24] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/panel-switch
[19:24] <ali1234> if you run it with my configuration, you get a gnome2-like config, instantly
[19:24] <ry> based on what i saw with xubuntu 14.04 i figured i could eventually make it work but this is literally days of trying to fight with getting gnome-fallback working again, and i just needed a usable system to get some other stuff done
[19:24] <ry> wow
[19:25] <ry> should of come in here during this time
[19:25] <ry> lol
[19:25] <ry> i star'ed it, i'll test this out asap
[19:26] <ali1234> the idea is this would eventually be run on first install of xubuntu, and you can then pick a panel type
[19:26] <ali1234> but we need someone to write a gui for it
[19:26] <ry> does compiz work alright on xfce4 under ubuntu 14.04?
[19:26] <ali1234> meh... not really
[19:27] <ali1234> xfwm has ezoom now, so why even try to use compiz?
[19:27] <ry> i still have a rather limited understanding of how all the gui-related components come together honestly
[19:27] <ry> ezoom, the equal to full desktop zoom?
[19:27] <ali1234> yes
[19:27] <ry> =)
[19:28] <ry> thats one of the primary things i care about lol
[19:28]  * ry adds to list
[19:28] <ali1234> tat's the only thing most people really miss from compiz... the rest of it is just eye candy... nobody *needs* desktop cube
[19:28] <ali1234> zooming is important accessibility feature though
[19:29] <ry> oh yeah, i use the 2x2 expo/wall
[19:29] <ry> cube was cool for like 5 seconds back when i think it was part of "beryl" or something like that
[19:29] <ry> i'm sure in my old age wobbly windows would give me motion sickness or something
[19:29] <ry> x_x
[19:29] <ali1234> we don't have expo unfortunately
[19:29] <ry> maybe i'm calling it the wrong thing
[19:30] <ali1234> no, i know what you mean - we don't have it
[19:30] <ali1234> windows-e right?
[19:30] <ali1234> like zooming out and showing all workspaces
[19:30] <ry> yeah i guess all the features related to that are nice but not absolutely essential
[19:31] <ry> i rarely use it
[19:31] <ry> as long as i can move windows around between a 2x2 panel i'm good
[19:32] <ry> alt+clicking on a window to be able to grab it anywhere and move it is nice too (though i'm not sure if thats related to compiz)
[19:33] <ry> going back several years i knew i'd have to give up gnome 2.x at some point, and xfce has always been the alternative, i was surprised when gnome-fallback started becoming usable
[19:33] <ry> gnome-flashback (the one that is part of the gnome-shell rather than unity) was pretty much worthless from what i remember
[19:33] <ali1234> alt+drag is in all window managers that i know of, it'sa standard
[19:33] <ry> cool
[19:33] <ali1234> gnome flashback isn't so bad, if you know how to use t... you have to hold alt and right click the panel to get the old menus
[19:34] <ali1234> then it's just like old times
[19:34] <ali1234> doesn't work too well with compiz though
[19:34] <ry> i tried that on the new one when i was first trying to get ubuntu 14.04 setup
[19:35] <ry> it still works on unity's gnome-fallback, but the one that installs with gnome-shell had no such features
[19:35] <ali1234> yeah, there's two different fallback options now
[19:35] <ali1234> flashback, which is gnome-panel, and fallback, which is gnome shell made up to look a bit like gnome-panel but with none of the features
[19:36] <ali1234> and all the drawbacks :(
[19:36] <ry> lol
[19:36] <ali1234> you can guess which one gnome officially supports
[19:36] <ry> the useless one i'm sure
[19:40] <YokoZar> Is it intended that the drums now sound when the screen locks due to inactivity?
[19:41] <ali1234> i would guess not, and it's a side effect of using the same code for the lock screen and the login screen
[19:41] <ali1234> but i don't really know
[19:44] <ali1234> ie that sounds very much like a side-effect of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/878836
[19:57] <robert_ancell> desrt, have you started any gtk-mir code? I started work on a branch yesterday
[20:00] <YokoZar> ali1234: I agree, filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1320999
[21:27] <desrt> robert_ancell: was double-long weekend here, but i managed to get mir going in jhbuild
[21:27] <desrt> robert_ancell: did you push your branch to gnome.org yet?
[21:27] <robert_ancell> desrt, no
[21:27] <robert_ancell> desrt, where is your branch?
[21:28] <desrt> nowhere yet
[21:29] <robert_ancell> desrt, whats the convention on pushing gnome branches? wip/mir?
[21:30] <desrt> ya.  that's fine.
[21:31] <desrt> i think i'm gonna need to do some gtkapplication plumbing
[21:31] <desrt> i'm on holiday today and in transit to malta tomorrow, but maybe i can do some plane hacking
[21:32] <robert_ancell> desrt, can you push your branch there?
[21:32] <desrt> on the plane?
[21:32] <robert_ancell> to gnome git
[21:32] <desrt> of what?
[21:33] <robert_ancell> desrt, oh, you got mir to build using jhbuild.
[21:33] <robert_ancell> So no GTK+ Mir branch right?
[21:34] <desrt> the jhbuild moduleset is not in a 'done' state... the tarball from launchpad needs a fair bit of fixing before its usable
[21:35] <desrt> and i can't reupload my fixed tarball.... i'm on extremely spotty train internet
[21:35] <robert_ancell> desrt, so what did you get done?
[21:36] <robert_ancell> desrt, I'm starting the Mir module from scratch, so it might be best to use that and merge in changes from the bzr branch / tarballs
[21:36] <desrt> hacked up the tarball, figured out which cmake options i need, worked around a lib vs. lib64 issue
[21:36] <desrt> a lot of the fedora packages aren't quite up to snuff with what we have on ubuntu (and expect from mir)
[21:37] <desrt> some missing features in our google libraries (particularly gflags) and uninstalled bits of the mocking framework for cmake integration
[21:38] <desrt> (which apparently is a no-no anyway from what i found search around the net -- depending on system versions of this thing is never how it was supposed to work)