[00:47] <blimy> For install, I execute "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap", then I disconnect usb and choose recovery option.  That gives me choices "reboot system now",  "install zip now", etc.   "reboot system now" results in the four color (X) thing.   What is the correct choice.
[01:19] <RAOF> blimy: From memory I think you need to keep it plugged in until it finishes?
[04:17] <lotuspsychje> shorts app crashes after recent update ubuntu-touch on my nexus7
[04:18] <lotuspsychje> just leting you guys know
[04:18] <lotuspsychje> im using live rss app for feeds and i just love it
[04:27] <Macer> so the nexus 4
[04:27] <Macer> does everything work hardware wise?
[04:27] <Macer> ie: the cell modem, wifi, cams, etc?
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> Macer: im on n7 and everything works
[04:29] <Macer> n7 has a cell modem?
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> Macer: still rough edges, like not all apps turn
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> Macer: no n7 is tablet with wifi only
[04:30] <lotuspsychje> Macer: so all phone apps dont work on it like dialer n such
[04:30] <Macer> i remember similar projects for the N900 and the hardware was difficult to get to work
[04:30] <lotuspsychje> Macer: the new ubuntu touch improved alot on nexus
[04:31] <Macer> yeah but i can't find any information on what hardware is working
[04:31] <Macer> with the N900 the most difficult thing to get going was the cell modem
[04:31] <Macer> since carriers and manufacturers keep that in no-man's land to prevent devs from doing dangerous things to their towers :)
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> Macer: well maybe the BT and meizu phones will change alot for ubuntu touch
[04:33] <Macer> i'm not too worried abou the os itself.. i'm sure it will take time to mature. but i want to get a nexus 4 if the cell modem works
[04:33] <lotuspsychje> ah
[04:33] <Macer> judging by what the wiki says the other hardware works using the android stuff
[04:33] <Macer> but there is no mention as to whether or not the cell modem is functional
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> on the nexus status list neither?
[04:34] <Macer> there's a nexus status list? :)
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> cell modem is for 4G to work right?
[04:34] <Macer> yes
[04:34] <Macer> as well as voice calling
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> check topic for nexus status
[04:34] <ignacio|sleep> Good night | Buenas noches :)
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> ignacio|sleep: nite
[04:35] <Macer> awesome thanks
[04:35] <Macer> yeah
[04:36] <Macer> seems like the mobile data is green :)
[04:36] <Macer> i'll put my bid in
[04:36] <Macer> no tethering tho it seems. at least there isn't a status at all for it
[04:36] <lotuspsychje> im very happy with touch on my n7
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> i bought it specially for ubuntu
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> because i hate androids security
[04:37] <Macer> hm. wonder how far along mms is
[04:37] <Macer> it's purple
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> maybe you can youtube n4 with latest ubuntu-touch
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> you might see it in action this way
[04:37] <Macer> yah. i have a crappy lumia 521 now
[04:38] <Macer> lotuspsychje: does the email app use pgp?
[04:38] <Macer> or does it use thunderbird?
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> there is no email app yet
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> just gmail app
[04:38] <Macer> ouch lol
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> you can use the webbrowser-app to your mails directly of course
[04:38] <Macer> yah
[04:38] <Macer> i'm sure that will come along sooner than most :)
[04:38] <Macer> what about IM?
[04:39] <Macer> anything for xmpp/facebook
[04:39] <Macer> ?
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> there is a facebook app wich i dont use
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> but it works
[04:39] <Macer> are they using xorg for the ui?
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> not sure for other social networks
[04:39] <Macer> is there a terminal? :D
[04:39] <Macer> and ssh?
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> terminal works...but you cant apt-get
[04:40] <Macer> no apt-get??
[04:40] <RAOF> Not strictly speaking true.
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> because the device is locked
[04:40] <RAOF> You _can_ apt-get, but you go into unsupported territory to do so.
[04:40] <Macer> oh i see
[04:40] <Macer> so you have to use an app app?
[04:40] <RAOF> (Because we distribute updates as system-images, rather than via apt)
[04:40] <Macer> ah ok.
[04:41] <Macer> RAOF: what is the ui using ? xorg?
[04:41] <RAOF> Mir.
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> RAOF: will there be room for apt-get installs in the future?
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> i miss my terminal tools :p
[04:41] <Macer> oh.. didn't know that ubuntu was going to use mir... i thought they were going to use that other xorg replacement
[04:42] <Macer> wayland
[04:42] <RAOF> lotuspsychje: See the various Ubuntu mailing lists, codeword: convergence - ubuntu-devel@ & ubuntu-desktop@ are where this sort of thing is discussed.
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> ok tnx
[04:42] <Macer> RAOF: so how are apps distributed then if it's not using a frontend to apt?
[04:43] <RAOF> lotuspsychje: Because we'll be supporting Click apps on the desktop, too, and would like to support system-image updates (because they're awesome), but need to work out how that interacts with apt.
[04:43] <RAOF> Macer: unity-scope-click; basically an appstore model.
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> Macer: new apps show up on ubuntu-touch when released
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> shall we say 50+ apps are there now
[04:44] <Macer> ah ok. nice. ... hopefully the bt stuff picks up so i can use a bt flipping keyboard and ssh later heh
[04:44] <Macer> i haven't used ubuntu in a while but installed it on a laptop and unity actually works out quite well once you get used to it
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> well i rather have ubuntu with work on, the unsecure android :p
[04:45] <RAOF> Someone's doing an XMPP app; https://github.com/ginuerzh/gchat
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> nice!
[04:45] <Macer> RAOF: awesome. too bad you can't have telepathy ported from the maemo people :/
[04:45]  * RAOF doesn't know if bt keyboards work now; they might?
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> 2 irc apps released by ogra_ aswell
[04:45] <RAOF> Macer: Why would we need to port it?
[04:45] <Macer> the app used in maemo for txting/im was probably the best i ever used
[04:45] <RAOF> Oh, that app.
[04:45] <RAOF> Maemo was GTK, so it'd need quite extensive reworking.
[04:45] <Macer> yes. i think it's proprietary though
[04:46] <Macer> oh i thought they had a big move to qt
[04:46] <RAOF> We can happily use Telepathy, the framework, though.
[04:46] <Macer> well hopefully they can use the design from the n900 im/txt app as a base for it.. it worked incredibly well... minus the lack of mms of course
[04:46] <RAOF> Hm. Maybe? I always forget the various iterations of the-cures-of-the-Intel mobile thingies.
[04:46] <Macer> i'm sure mms is a bit tricky
[04:47] <RAOF> s/cures/curse/
[04:47] <Macer> heh
[04:47] <Macer> well i was hoping that ubuntu on a phone would be akin to maemo.. it really was an amazing mobile os in its prime
[04:47] <Macer> too bad it was put out the pasture by nokia during the plunge
[04:48] <Macer> it would be nice to eventually get an ubuntu phone with a hw qwerty
[04:48] <Macer> or maybe one that can have one of those attachable bt sliding keyboards
[04:49] <Macer> sometimes i use my old N900 and am amazed at all the good things they were doing there that they simply killed off... unfortunately without solid company support as well as licensing roadblocks to the opensource side there wasn't much it could do to keep up with growing demands of today's services
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> Macer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoFsLuBcOPg
[04:50] <Macer> not to mention the aging hardware. nokia did absolutely amazing things before ios and android kind of ruined them :) even tho they kind of ruined themselves
[04:50] <Macer> they were years ahead of apple with the touch tech but didn't give it much mind
[04:52] <Macer> that guy sucks at flappy bird :P
[04:52] <Macer> lotuspsychje: the terminal is what makes it special
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> yes indeed
[04:53] <Macer> it's kind of odd tho. when asked about the placement of the unity dock being on the left and not being able to move the argument was that the vertical space was easier to give up than the horizontal space
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> but i would have loved my terminal apps install more easily
[04:54] <Macer> yet on the ubuntu phone which is being used rotated upwards... the prime space is actually the horizontal space
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> yes left sidebar doesnt rotate
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> bit unhandy sometimes
[04:55] <Macer> well i'm just saying. the reason it isn't able to be moved was because the design was worried about desktop space and that it being vertical was better for the experience
[04:55] <Macer> on a phone that's problematic since it's usually being held profile so
[04:56] <Macer> that kind of trumps the argument for prime space on a desktop
[04:56] <Macer> lotuspsychje: can you change the background to black?
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> Macer: no colors yet to choose
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> Macer: just pictures use as background
[04:57] <lotuspsychje> Macer: pictures from camera taken pictures
[04:57] <lotuspsychje> cant yet download a wallpaper
[04:57] <Macer> heh
[04:57] <Macer> i'm sure these are things for later. at least they have a couple devices that can run it for testing by users
[04:58] <Macer> in the end maybe some android manufacturers will keep their devices open so people can switch
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> the dev guys do great work here
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> many brands interested in ubuntu already
[04:58] <Macer> because it will take time to iron everything out for mass consumption by the cattle ;)
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[04:58] <Macer> i mean people hanging out on irc can probably figure things out for themselves.. but joe user probably can't
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> little work to get it installed yes
[04:59] <Macer> the real big problem is that if ubuntu finally gets one of their official phones out they're going to get into the hands of typical users who will give it a bad review to everybody because they were expecting something lik ios
[05:00] <Macer> those hipster dare to be different types
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> you cant get a bad review on touch
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> its mostly functional and secure as ubuntu desktop
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> i would never compare with ios
[05:01] <Macer> yeah but i'm just saying. nobody seems to recall the G1 ;)
[05:01] <Macer> android was awful when it was first released but pushed through it with all the google hype
[05:02] <Macer> ubuntu probably won't be awarded such a luxury since the other devices are so much more matured.. even wp8
[05:03] <Macer> i mean not like there are many ecosystems out there nowadays heh
[05:03] <Macer> ios, android, windows phone, and niche cheap OSes for dumb phones
[05:04] <Macer> anyways. thanks for all the info. really appreciate it. hopefully i can get a hold of a nexus 4 to install it on. i am bidding on one now
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> kk
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> whats the price of n4 nowadays?
[05:06] <bact> £150?
[05:07] <bact> get a nexus 5
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> i payed 260 euro for n7
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> seen video with touch on n5
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> not sure if it works smooth as n4
[05:08] <bact> the n4 is a year and a half old, canonical might decide its too old to build toward
[05:09] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[05:09] <lotuspsychje> maybe macer should wait then
[06:01] <Macer> too late now
[06:02] <Macer> well i'm sure a lot of people will just work on community builds
[06:02] <Macer> the n4 is still a strong piece of equipment for a phone ;)
[06:02] <Macer> i mean when does it end? 20 cores and 20GB of ram in a phone? heh
[06:03] <Macer> if they give me a year out of it with updates so i can see ubuntu become something impressive it will be worth the $175 i'm bidding ;)
[06:03] <Macer> especially since finding an actual official ubuntu phone will be difficult
[06:04] <Macer> hopefully ubuntu has good luck with managing to use hardware in other devices as well. like i said earlier.. with maemo it became a matter of the licensing issues with hardware manufacturers
[06:04] <Macer> after nokia toted the n900 being a "free and open" device devs found out it was anything but after nokia dropped official support for it.. not to mention all the closed bits in maemo itself
[06:05] <Macer> and hw manufacturers could care less about building closed blobs for dead operating systems :)
[06:06] <chriadam> libhybris woo
[08:08] <nik90_> tvoss: ping
[08:08] <tvoss> nik90_, pong
[08:08] <nik90_> tvoss: hey, do you have an update on the alarms device sleep MP?
[08:09] <nik90_> tvoss: we are at the sprint and discussing about alarms :)
[08:10] <tvoss> nik90_, so I just added the mp to the landing spreadsheet
[08:10] <tvoss> nik90_, but you want to check with charles, too. Not sure if he is at the sprint?
[08:11] <nik90_> charles: I dont think he is at the sprint unfortunately
[08:11] <nik90_> tvoss: ^^
[08:12] <tvoss> nik90_, ah okay, so what you need for alarms to be working is my platform-api branch landed, and Charles' work picking up those changes and wiring it up to the overall alarms infrastructure
[08:12] <nik90_> tvoss: oh so it is both branches that are required then? Can we then have both those MPs in the same silo?
[08:13] <nik90_> tvoss: btw, are you referring to this spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au6idq7TkpUUdGNWb0tTVmJLVzFZd0doV3dVOGpWemc#gid=0
[08:13] <tvoss> nik90_, it's multiple changes required, and yes, having one silo for them is the plan. I bootstrapped the landing with line 32
[08:14] <tvoss> nik90_, nope, I'm referring to the CI Train spreadsheet
[08:19] <nik90_> tvoss: ok, I will follow up with charles to get his MP also added to the landing 32 then
[08:19] <tvoss> nik90_, that's great, thank you
[08:20] <tvoss> nik90_, I will upload a custom system.img that includes the android changes
[08:34] <tvoss> nik90_, added a comment to line 32
[08:34] <nik90_> tvoss: ok.
[08:35] <nik90_> tvoss: I think charles isn't awake yet..so I will ask him when he comes online
[08:35] <tvoss> nik90_, ack
[08:49] <Mirv> popey: qtpim  ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/landing-005
[08:57] <popey> kk
[09:10] <popey> Mirv: (& balloons)  paste.ubuntu.com/7487607/ ☹
[09:11] <Mirv> popey: that sounds like you've a PPA with ui-toolkit enabled, is that right?
[09:12] <popey> ah crud, yes
[09:12]  * popey reflashes to get clean
[10:20] <Wellark> plars: hi
[10:20] <Wellark> http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/touch/mako/37:20140519:20140513.2/8093/dialer_app/
[10:20] <Wellark> there are couple of .crash files
[10:21] <Wellark> please tell me smokeeng will retrace them for me..
[10:22] <Wellark> didrocks: do you know? -^
[10:23] <didrocks> Wellark: check with cihelp on the #ubuntu-ci-eng channel
[10:23] <didrocks> they are the ones politing that
[10:23] <didrocks> Wellark: AFAIK, it's uploaded to errors.ubuntu.com
[10:23] <didrocks> and retraced there
[10:23] <Wellark> ok. let's see
[10:23] <Wellark> didrocks: thanks
[10:24] <didrocks> yw
[11:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, do you know if there is a known issue about webbrowser-app segfaulting in libegl code when run on utopic/amd64/unity8-mir sessions?
[11:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm aware of that
[11:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know what component is faulty/who is owning the issue?
[11:01] <seb128> is there a lp bug I can follow?
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, oxide/me ;)
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> there's a bug somewhere for it already
[11:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, good, if it's on your todolist somewhere it's good enough for me
[11:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[11:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, (we are starting an unity8/desktop iso, I'm playing with that and just ran into the issue)
[11:03] <ogra_> people should just buy ARM PCs ...
[11:05] <mandel> ogra_, how do a build the android side when I want to create my own image?
[11:05] <mandel> ogra_, is rootstock-touch enough?
[11:05] <ogra_> mandel, no
[11:06] <ogra_> you could apt-get source android ... and then just build the package ... or you could branch and use whatever is needed for building nowadays (brunch, breakfast, bacon or whatever ... ask sergio)
[11:07] <mandel> ogra_, ok, thx
[11:08]  * ogra_ would run "make nutellla_sandwich" ... but i suspect that wouldnt have the desired outcome :) 
[11:09] <mzanetti> ogra_: soon... http://www.nwzonline.de/wirtschaft/roboter-schmiert-butterbrote-vollautomatisch_a_5,1,1016994523.html
[11:10] <ogra_> hahaha, i remember that
[11:10] <mzanetti> :D
[12:32] <Macer> so how exactly are the nexus builds being made?
[12:33] <Macer> just strip out the android bits and build ubuntu against the kernel + modules used on the nexus?
[12:33] <Macer> or does ubuntu actually have the src for the hardware and make everything from scratch?
[13:07] <cwayne1> ogra_: hey, did the ubuntu-touch-session updates make it into the build?
[13:07] <ogra_> i dont think there was any landing yet
[13:07] <ogra_> they surely made it to trunk
[13:21] <Macer> Ubuntu Touch includes as core applications social media and media applications (e.g. Facebook, YouTube, and an RSS reader). Standard applications such as a calculator, an e-mail client, an alarm clock, a file manager, and even a terminal are to be included as well.
[13:22] <Macer> hm. someone earlier said ubuntu touch didn't have an email app
[13:23] <ogra_> Macer, it has a gMail webapp currently ... there is a native IMAP mail client in early development
[14:01] <popey> jhodapp_: ever tested video playback on nexus 10?
[14:01] <popey> jhodapp_: Hint: I have a nexus 10
[14:01] <jhodapp_> popey, not me personally, but rsalveti should have in the recent past
[14:02] <popey> jhodapp: paste.ubuntu.com/7488655/ fyi
[14:04] <jhodapp> popey, is it playing?
[14:05] <popey> no
[14:05] <popey> black screen
[14:06] <jhodapp> popey, yeah ok, you'll have to show it to me...I need to be able to see the logcat and media-hub-server GST_DEBUG output
[14:37] <rsalveti> jhodapp: popey: I know it was working before, so probably a new bug :-)
[14:37] <jhodapp> rsalveti, yeah that's what I thought
[14:37] <jhodapp> rsalveti, and that was after I released media-hub, right?
[14:38] <rsalveti> probably, but not sure, don't remember :-)
[14:38] <jhodapp> rsalveti, heh, I don't either :)
[14:39] <rsalveti> tvoss: which other MR do you need to include at silo 15?
[14:40] <rsalveti> tvoss: https://code.launchpad.net/~charlesk/platform-api/alarm-api/+merge/207107 ?
[14:41] <rsalveti> charles: tvoss: mind updating this mr ^? needs a trunk merge
[14:44] <charles> rsalveti, tvoss: I thought we decided to defer the ~charlesk/platform-api/alarm-api branch; it's out-of-sync with how qt5organizer-eds handles URLs
[14:44] <rsalveti> alright, not on top of what was decided, sorry
[14:44] <rsalveti> just trying to get the needed alarm changes in place
[14:45] <charles> the code isn't dead, but it's not the priority right now. I could cancel the MR for now to keep launchpad cleaner
[14:45] <charles> rsalveti, np
[14:45] <rsalveti> no, not needed, will land just the hw side then
[14:49] <charles> rsalveti, I've flagged it as WIP and added a comment explaining the status
[14:49] <rsalveti> charles: cool, thanks
[15:17] <edit_> i am unable to connect network
[15:18] <edit_> how can i up the interface
[15:18] <edit_> is any one help me to up the interface
[15:19] <balloons> jdstrand, ping
[15:30] <jdstrand> balloons: hey
[15:31] <seb128> MacSlow, hey, could you add https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/lp1319983/+merge/219873 to your review list?
[15:32] <MacSlow> seb128, yup
[15:32] <seb128> MacSlow, danke
[15:32] <MacSlow> seb128, de rien :)
[15:32] <seb128> ;-)
[15:33] <balloons> jdstrand, hey so can we talk about https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-calendar-app/fix-ap-flo/+merge/219925
[15:33] <Laney> a merge proposal by larsu with a change from apw
[15:33] <Laney> spooky
[15:33] <jdstrand> balloons: sure. ask away
[15:34] <jdstrand> I should have said 's/click packaging/click app launch/'
[15:35] <balloons> jdstrand, so I can't get the isolation to work no matter the dir I give it. However, TMPDIR didn't seem to exist
[15:35] <balloons> I tried that first
[15:35] <jdstrand> I think the app would need to create it
[15:35] <balloons> I'm not sure if apparmor is still yelling or not, I need to give it a try
[15:35] <balloons> jdstrand, the app would need to create it?
[15:36] <jdstrand> yes
[15:36] <balloons> jdstrand, what I'm trying to do is setup a standardized test environment for running tests within for all the core apps
[15:36] <jdstrand> I don't think upstart-app-launch does it for the app
[15:36] <jdstrand> it just sets the variable
[15:36] <balloons> so we want to setup a fake /home area and startup the app and let it do it's thing within there
[15:36] <balloons> I had used /tmp, but that's locked down..
[15:37] <jdstrand> balloons: I think the easiest thing to do would be to create a new user
[15:38] <jdstrand> balloons: then run the app as that user
[15:38] <balloons> jdstrand, that's not really an option, as we need to be running as phablet on the device
[15:39] <balloons> it's certainly not impossible, but quite difficult in our current situation.
[15:39] <jdstrand> setting up a fake home isn't realistic though
[15:39] <jdstrand> upstart-app-launch sets up all kinds of variables
[15:40] <jdstrand> and you presumably want to launch the app in a manner that is as close to what the user will see as possible, so you need to use ual
[15:40] <jdstrand> and upstart-app-launch's variables are set precisely to what the apparmor profile expects
[15:41] <jdstrand> changing that around would be error-prone, a maintenance problem and not testing what the user sees
[15:41] <jdstrand> unless I am missing something
[15:43] <balloons> jdstrand, we're launching with upstart-app-launch, but the idea is to preset the HOME env to our confined space
[15:43] <balloons> we can setup this directory however we need to do so, then pass it along and have the app launch and the test begin
[15:44] <balloons> jdstrand, objectively we would seek to emulate a user yes. Everything else should be the same
[15:46] <jdstrand> balloons: ok, so I do understand that. how are you making ual use your values rather than the ones it sets?
[15:47] <jdstrand> I guess if you set HOME, it might work for somethings, but not all
[15:47] <balloons> jdstrand, yes, by setting home and using a fixture
[15:47] <jdstrand> a fixture?
[15:48] <balloons> jdstrand, I'm open to doing things another way..
[15:49] <jdstrand> I don't think it is possible to do what you want without making changes to ual and if you make changes to ual it isn't as close to what the user sees as it could be
[15:49] <balloons> jdstrand, basically we're mocking it.. a fixture lets you load states in python
[15:49] <jdstrand> right... but ual is not python
[15:50] <jdstrand> you 'start application APP_ID=...' and it does stuff
[15:50] <balloons> elopio, you about?
[15:52] <AndroidDevice> hey waths up when devs relase stable version of ubuntu touch for I9100
[15:52] <ogra_> AndroidDevice, talk to the porters .. there is no official image for the galaxy S2
[15:52] <jdstrand> balloons: so, reading the code, I see that it should honor the various XDG_* variables if you set them before using ual
[15:53] <ogra_> AndroidDevice, the devices wikipage should have contact info
[15:53] <jdstrand> TMPDIR is set based on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
[15:53] <ogra_> !devices | AndroidDevice
[15:53] <jdstrand> so that should be ok
[15:53] <jdstrand> __GL_SHADER_DISK_CACHE_PATH is set based on XDG_CACHE_HOME
[15:53] <jdstrand> so it too should be ok
[15:54] <balloons> so XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is ok to use, but as you said TMPDIR doesn't exist
[15:54] <jdstrand> LD_LIBRARY_PATH should be ok too
[15:55] <jdstrand> and QML2_IMPORT_PATH should be too
[15:55] <jdstrand> along with PATH
[15:56] <jdstrand> ok, so my concerns were unfounded. so long as you set: XDG_CACHE_HOME, XDG_CONFIG_HOME, XDG_DATA_HOME, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR and XDG_DATA_DIRS correctly, all the other vars fall in to place. for now
[15:56] <jdstrand> as for TMPDIR
[15:57] <jdstrand> that is simply $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/confined/$pkgname
[15:58] <balloons> jdstrand, ok so we should set all of the vars you listed then to ensure it works
[15:58] <jdstrand> it is up to the app to honor TMPDIR correctly
[15:58] <balloons> jdstrand, ahh, ok, so I'll recreate TMPDIR and pass that
[15:58] <jdstrand> if it isn't, that is a bug in the app that autopilot revealed
[15:58] <jdstrand> balloons: iirc, it is calendar that is the problem right now>
[15:58] <jdstrand> ?
[15:59] <balloons> jdstrand, calendar is just my example to implement
[15:59] <balloons> jdstrand, so what should I should everything to?
[16:01] <jdstrand> calendar might be hitting bug #1288742, I'm not sure
[16:03] <jdstrand> balloons: re values> right, so you can set those XDG_ to whatever you want and ual will honor that and the env will all be setup accordingly for the app. the problem then is apparmor will block all those (as it should)
[16:04] <jdstrand> balloons: I see two ways around that: a) use a new user and don't fiddle with the env or b) ship additional apparmor policy like we do for the autopilot dbus rules
[16:06] <jdstrand> balloons: 'b' is possible, but there is a potential maintenance burden. it probably isn't bad
[16:08] <jdstrand> the policy doesn't currently reference XDG_DATA_DIRS
[16:09] <balloons> jdstrand, so I tried something like this:
[16:09] <balloons> initctl set-env HOME=/run/user/32011/confined/com.ubuntu.calendar/tmp2vtzp895
[16:09] <balloons> and it seems to be blocked; that lines up with what you are saying yes?
[16:09] <jdstrand> yes
[16:10] <balloons> jdstrand, ok, so what would the policy look like? and we would be able to set HOME then?
[16:11] <balloons> I think I like that idea
[16:12] <jdstrand> hold on
[16:12]  * jdstrand is getting it together
[16:13] <balloons> jdstrand, awesome.. dinner time here, everyone is packing up :-)
[16:15] <balloons> jdstrand, if you could draft something up and send me a mail I'd appreciate it. You can include elopio in the mail as well.
[16:15] <balloons> many thanks!
[16:20] <bitchseekingsEx> when a ubuntu touch final relase
[16:21] <ogra_> bitchseekingsEx, end of summer or so ... once you can buy the ubuntu phones from meizu and bq
[16:22] <ogra_> (well, that wont be final either, but "enduser ready")
[16:25] <bitchseekingsEx> when probably it's can be relased
[16:25] <ogra_> it is released regulary and many people use it day by day already
[16:28] <jdstrand> balloons: I did it in a paste
[16:28] <jdstrand> balloons: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7489203/
[16:28] <jdstrand> balloons: untested, but something like that should work
[16:29] <jdstrand> balloons: does that make sense?
[16:34] <jdstrand> balloons: I commented in the MP
[17:42] <dobey> mvo: yay conflicts :)
[17:44] <dobey> mvo: also, why did you propose two branches that directly conflict with each other?
[18:07] <mterry> Can we not flash grouper anymore?
[18:07] <mterry> Bummer
[18:20] <dobey> mterry: not from the official server at least. i don't know if Tassadar has grouper builds of utopic or not
[18:20] <Tassadar> no
[18:20] <dobey> hi Tassadar :)
[18:20] <Tassadar> the reason grouper builds were discontinued is that they don't work very well
[18:20] <dobey> Tassadar: btw, if your battery "fix" is in the current hammerhead build, i think it's not quite working as expected?
[18:21] <Tassadar> it wasn't even merged yet
[18:21] <dobey> yeah, ubuntu has been horrible on my grouper since the full on switch to mir and all the new scopes api/unity8 stuff
[18:21] <dobey> locks up and crashes constantly :-/
[18:22] <dobey> Tassadar: oh, i noticed the indicator would display 100% when plugged in, but would then go back to 50% immediately after unplugging from the charger
[18:22] <dobey> didn't know if what was a reuslt of your fix or not
[18:24] <Tassadar> I suppose the indicator acts kinda randomly when it has a second "battery" which contains charge of 0 Wh and it's capacity is also 0 Wh
[18:24] <Tassadar> *its
[18:24] <dobey> yeah, i guess so
[18:30] <mvo> dobey: hi, sorry for that, happy to fix it - I don't know why I did that, I based them from devel, it just happend :/
[18:31] <dobey> mvo: another branch just landed
[18:31] <dobey> mvo: it was semi invasive to popular code, so you just ended up hitting the same bits
[18:32] <dobey> mvo: though, i have another branch up for review at the moment, which your changes also conflicts with.
[18:32] <mvo> dobey: aha, ok. I can merge/fix the conflicts later or tomorrow morning or you just tell me when the flurry of merges calms down and I fix it then ;)
[18:33] <dobey> mvo: yaeh, we can fix them tomorrow/later
[18:33] <mvo> dobey: sounds good
[18:41] <ted> ogra_, I think we still want HUD setting that recoverable error, not sure it's gone away completely: https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=DBusSessionAddressNotSet
[18:41] <ted> ogra_, Don't see any 14.10 reports yet, but still early.
[19:06] <ogra_> ted, well, thhis landing is totally unrealted to fix a bug with 100% filled up (or readonly) homedir
[19:06] <ogra_> i answered in the MP
[19:49] <slvn_> hello, hope this one will land : https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/upstart-app-launch/ld-library-path/+merge/217832
[19:50] <ted> slvn_, It will, I'm unfortunately busy with a few other things right now, so I can't land it.
[19:50] <ted> If others have spare cycles they can. I just don't have :-/
[19:52] <bdmurray> Is there anybody that could confirm bug 1320988 for me?
[19:52] <slvn_> hello ted, sorry about. But you branch is ended, right ? so you are done. what happen next, who's taking in charge of merging it ?
[19:54] <ted> slvn_, So it needs a lander, I recently got permission to do that, so I can do it, just need to find the time. But there are other folks that can land as well.
[20:01] <slvn_> ted,  hopefully then someone will land it ... it's very likely an automatic merge
[20:04] <slvn_> ted, can the merge be assigned to someone else ?
[20:37] <Macer> so ubuntu touch is going to use trojita for its email client?
[20:37] <Macer> does trojita have pgp built in? or some other type of encryption?
[20:37] <dobey> trojita is going to be available on ubuntu touch
[20:38] <dobey> i don't think there is any decision on it being the "default mail app"
[20:38] <dobey> right now, it's the only mail app (outside of web mail apps of course)
[20:41] <Macer> oh ok. i thought it was supposed to be the default app
[20:42] <Macer> i was hoping ubuntu took the mozilla route for its browser and email client
[20:42] <Macer> since firefox still is a bit standard across the board and thunderbird has awesome plugins
[20:42] <Macer> i can sync everything from my outlook acct (calendar, contacts, email) using thunderbird and its plugins
[20:43] <Macer> has s/mime and pgp support can be added easily as well
[20:43] <Macer> MS uses s/mime for its signing/encryption doesn't it?
[20:45] <dobey> you probably need to ask trojita developers about specific features in trojita
[20:45] <dobey> i don't think they hang out in here, but maybe there's one or two hanging around
[20:46] <Macer> yah it doesn't seem like it supports it.. i was just wondering what route the ubuntu touch devs were taking
[20:46] <Macer> considering nowadays people are all about actually securing their email :)
[20:47] <dobey> i wish most people were all about securing their e-mail
[20:49] <Macer> me too... but the email clients usually don't support it
[20:49] <Macer> especially the mobile ones
[20:50] <Macer> outlook i believe uses pkcs12 or s/mime
[20:50] <dobey> doing secure pgp/pkcs on a phone is just hard
[20:50] <Macer> which i'm sure requires a cert from a MS certified CA in order to use or something? :)
[20:51] <Macer> dobey: you would think that wouldn't be the case in an ubuntu distro
[20:51] <dobey> no, it has nothing to do with the OS
[20:51] <dobey> and everything to do with the hardware
[20:51] <Macer> well. the key creation would probably suck on a mobile device
[20:52] <dobey> well one time for 5 minutes isn't too bad
[20:52] <Macer> yeah
[20:52] <Macer> after that i don't see it being a huge problem
[20:52] <dobey> but you have to store the private key on the device
[20:52] <Macer> sure
[20:52] <dobey> you can't keep a secure usb stick and plug it in
[20:52] <Macer> that's what the key pw is for ;)
[20:52] <dobey> and people lose their phones constantly
[20:53] <dobey> yeah, because people are so good at picking secure passwords :P
[20:53] <Macer> link the key password to the pin used to unlock the phone :D
[20:53] <Macer> or add full device encryption as well linked to the pin as well like android does
[20:54] <dobey> yeah, that's not secure
[20:54] <dobey> that's theater
[20:54] <Macer> really? why's that?
[20:55] <Macer> you can always link the key to pam unlocking the phone instead
[20:55] <Macer> but of course typing in your password while driving is probably far more difficult than a 5-8 digit pin :P
[20:55] <dobey> because how long do you think it really takes for a professional theif to crack a pin?
[20:56] <Macer> probably long enough to revoke the key somewhere else
[20:56] <dobey> yeah no
[20:57] <Macer> hope on your ubuntu laptop and go into the same universal email client and click 1 button that says "revoke key" that sends the revokation across the board... or communicates to the device whenever it connects and revokes it remotely
[20:57] <Macer> hope/hop ;) freudian slip
[20:57] <dobey> you can't remotely revoke a key on a device that has no connection to the network
[20:58] <Macer> sure.. if it doesn't have the connection.. but at least it will buy you some time if the person turns the thing on and it connnects just once it wouldn't take long
[20:59] <Macer> either way tho.. you're talking about some prometheus type thief
[20:59] <dobey> i'm talking about professionals
[21:00] <Macer> exactly. in most cases it will be joe phone thief taking your phone lol
[21:00] <dobey> and joe phone thief doesn't care about your data probably
[21:00] <Macer> i'd be more worried about the government than robin hood
[21:01] <Macer> i'm sure there has to be a safe way to do it. all that matters is keeping the key safe
[21:01] <dobey> random thieves can just take the device, reflash it back to stock android, and sell it
[21:01] <Macer> make the cam retina scan an eyeball pic lol
[21:01] <Macer> i doubt most thieves can even do that... but the phone fencer might do it
[21:02] <Macer> so you probably get a good 2 hours before they get to the shady electronic pawn shop
[21:04] <dobey> anyway, most phone thefts are just because people are stupid
[21:05] <dobey> best thing you can do is treat your phone like cash. don't leave it sitting on the bar or in the taxi. keep it securely in your control.
[21:06] <dobey> i don't know what the plans for a secure keyring or any such stuff is though. any such thing should be unrelated to the mail client itself, and just something the mail client uses
[21:06] <Macer> sure... but getting back to the point....
[21:06] <Macer> encryption of email on a device ;)
[21:06] <dobey> yes, it's hard
[21:06] <Macer> hopefully they actually do that
[21:07] <Macer> i don't see how it's any more difficult than any other email client that actually supports it
[21:07] <Macer> like thunderbird
[21:07] <Macer> makes your key.. sets a password.. stores it... done... although it's not really tb that does it
[21:07] <Macer> it's enigmail
[21:08] <dobey> first of all
[21:08] <dobey> it's not an issue limited to the scope of an e-mail client
[21:10] <ajalkane> argh... is something wrong with my QtCreator, or is it normal that Ctrl+Space does not work for expanding Ubuntu specific properties in QML files?
[21:10] <Macer> sure but i'm sure the vast majority of x86/64 can be ported to arm just as well
[21:10] <Macer> ubuntu is going for that same unified experience ms is going for across all platforms
[21:10] <dobey> it has nothing to do with architecture
[21:10] <Macer> dobey: my point is that all the pieces are in place to do it
[21:11] <dobey> my point is that they aren't :)
[21:11] <dobey> apps on ubuntu touch are confined
[21:11] <Macer> ah.. ok. that makes sense
[21:11] <Macer> i see your point with that one
[21:11] <dobey> you don't want every app that needs encryption to be pulling in all the libraries and programs, for every architecture, into their packages
[21:12] <Macer> why not? make the entire thing static! 2GB email app :P
[21:12] <Macer> jk
[21:12] <Macer> but i see your point.. but can't those types of things be tagged in apt?
[21:12] <dobey> and you do want to be able to use the same pgp/pkcs key across multiple apps
[21:12] <Macer> not to mention for ubuntu touch you'd probably need all the libs considering it is meant to connect as a desktop to a cradle
[21:12] <Macer> or one universal app ;)
[21:13] <dobey> no, packages in ubuntu-touch are not debs
[21:13] <dobey> click packages do not have dependencies. there's no archive to  pull dependencies from
[21:13] <Macer> not yet ;)
[21:13] <Macer> i'm sure there's work being done to find a sane way to use apt
[21:13] <dobey> not ever. / is read-only
[21:13] <Macer> just for the reason you were talking of
[21:14] <dobey> you can install stuff with apt if you want, sure
[21:14] <Macer> i thought / was ro for image upgrade reasons
[21:14] <dobey> but it is unsupported, insecure, and not how the problem you're asking about will be solved
[21:14] <Macer> i'm sure there are ways to keep mounts carried over across update
[21:15] <Macer> dobey: well... we'll just have to see. but i can see that as being an awesome feature. the big reason email is so godawful insecure is the lack of ease of use for the encryption
[21:15] <Macer> plus it won't be centralized like say... lavabit was
[21:15] <dobey> no
[21:15] <Macer> the keys would be maintained by the user
[21:15] <dobey> e-mail is insecure because it's just insecure
[21:15] <Macer> email is secure because there's no incentive by either users or companies to make it more secure
[21:15] <Macer> *insecure
[21:16] <Macer> people have been brainwashed into thinking emails are ok. they're pretty much flying around unencrypted everywhere
[21:16] <dobey> and there never will be when all the major web sites send you plain text e-mails to recover your password, with a plain text password in them
[21:16] <Macer> it would be like if the USPS didn't have people use envelopes :)
[21:17] <Macer> sure.. but these things are fixed in small steps ;)
[21:17] <dobey> and encryption doesn't encrypt the envelope
[21:17] <Macer> starting with ease of use for the consumer to use more secure email
[21:17] <dobey> postcards don't have envelopes
[21:17] <Macer> hahaha
[21:17] <Macer> touche
[21:17] <dobey> and a very large amount of mail sent through the USPS can be easily read by looking through the envelope with a light behind it
[21:18] <Macer> yes. and you can also go to the store and buy the security envelopes ;)
[21:18] <dobey> that doesn't help with the mail i receive
[21:18] <Macer> so it's tantamount of the office supply company storing the security envelopes on the top shelf
[21:18] <dobey> and the mail i send, well i just avoid sending mail unless it's absolutely necessary
[21:18] <Macer> and keeping the plain easier to read through envelopes on the bottom
[21:19] <Macer> where they can easily be reached
[21:19] <dobey> not really
[21:19] <dobey> but keep grasping at those top shelf straws :)
[21:19] <Macer> i'm just asking that either pgp or s/mime be placed on the bottom shelf ;)
[21:58] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntu 14.04 and AMD CrossFire | http://askubuntu.com/q/469356