=== ianorlinlaptop is now known as ianorlin
DalekMagnusHi everyone.01:51
nhainesDalekMagnus: hi!01:56
nhainesWell it was nice of him to stop by.01:58
nhainesI realized that due to time zones my article deadline is actually tomorrow night.  Which means I'll be writing constantly until then.  :P02:01
nhainesBut at least it'll be finished.  :)02:01
nhainesWell, I have a cold bottle of pear cider.  Time to start the meeting then?02:02
darthrobotMeeting started Mon May 19 02:02:34 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.02:02
darthrobotAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired02:02
pleia2ok, who all is here for the meeting? :)02:02
* eps waves02:03
pleia2Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14May1802:03
darthrobotTitle: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14May18 - Ubuntu Wiki]02:03
pleia2#topic OCLUG Installfest02:03
darthrobotTitle: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/OCLUGInstallFestMay2014 - Ubuntu Wiki]02:03
pleia2nhaines: anything you wish to talk about?02:03
nhainesEverything's rolling along logistically.  Other than pizza money, everything is all in place.02:04
nhainesWhat's not in place are volunteers.  I've only received one email, so I assume no one else is going.02:04
* ianorlin needs to send email02:04
DalekMagnusI can go02:04
DalekMagnusI just confirmed with my fiance >_>02:05
DalekMagnusshe gave me a stare02:05
nhainesThe more the merrier.  Basically we need people to help with installation.02:05
nhainesAnd by "installation" I mean figuring out if the hardware sounds sane and then figuring out how to boot from a DVD.02:05
DalekMagnusOh that's cake, will do02:05
DalekMagnusah, more fun02:05
nhainesAs far as fixing scary arcade installation problems, well the more installers we have, the freer myself and a couple others will be to troubleshoot.  So don't worry about that.  :)02:06
nhainesAnyone from Ubuntu California who has signed the Code of Conduct will get an Ubuntu name badge to wear, assuming the email me their full name before Saturday.  :P02:06
DalekMagnuslol I hope I see an arcade build02:07
nhainesSo email me at nhaines at ubuntu.com if you can make it.  Details are here: http://www.oclug.org/installfest.html02:07
darthrobotTitle: [OCLUG Installfest]02:07
nhainesThe most important thing is that we're featuring Ubuntu and not talking about the command line other than the very, very brief mention that *I* will give during the install.02:07
nhainesMainly so that people understand why they're given a list of commands to copy/paste when they search for answers on the Internet.02:08
nhainesOther than that we're just going to stay positive, not mention other software in a negative manner, etc.  :)02:09
nhainesI think that's about it.02:09
pleia2great, thanks nhaines02:09
ianorlinyeah not get into a war about which is best02:09
pleia2#topic Any other business02:09
pleia2so, do we have other stuff to talk about?02:10
pleia2yeah, as I mentioned on list I'll be presenting on 14.04 at BALUG on tuesday02:10
darthrobotTitle: [[BALUG-Announce] BALUG meeting Tu 2014-05-20: Elizabeth KrumbachJoseph on Ubuntu14.04 LTS "Trusty Tahr"; & other BALUG news]02:10
epsActually, I do have something new:02:11
epsIn re https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/05/14/drm-and-the-challenge-of-serving-users/02:11
darthrobotTitle: [DRM and the Challenge of Serving Users | The Mozilla Blog]02:11
pleia2I also presented at FeltonLUG yesterday, slides at BALUG will be similar, anyone is welcome to use them: http://princessleia.com/presentations/1404-whats-new-felton.pdf (and .odp)02:11
darthrobotContent type: [application/pdf] Size: [94938]02:11
epsI would like to propose a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases.02:11
nhainesOut of scope.02:12
nhainesBesides which, of course, they're not implementing DRM.  Adobe is.02:12
epsnhaines: really? We can't take a position on that?02:12
akkI have questions about that and wouldn't mind discussing it after the meeting.02:12
pleia2I'm not really interested in that02:12
ianorlingood thing is other browsers in repos02:12
nhainesakk: that sounds like a capital idea.  :)02:12
pleia2anything else?02:13
nhaineseps: "out of scope" is merely my opinion.02:13
epsTwo votes: one to determine whether it's in scope, with a second on the resolution if the first one passes.02:14
pleia2#vote Should a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases be within the scope of this team02:15
darthrobotPlease vote on: Should a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases be within the scope of this team02:15
darthrobotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)02:15
darthrobot-1 received from pleia202:15
darthrobot-1 received from rww02:15
darthrobot-1 received from nhaines02:15
darthrobot+1 received from eps02:15
darthrobot-1 received from DalekMagnus02:15
pleia2anyone else?02:15
elkysure -102:16
darthrobot-1 received from elky02:16
darthrobotVoting ended on: Should a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases be within the scope of this team02:16
darthrobotVotes for:1 Votes against:5 Abstentions:002:16
darthrobotMotion denied02:16
rww(Once this is done, I have a topic)02:16
pleia2eps: sounds like it's an after meeting discussion for folks interested in the topic in general02:16
nhainesrww: once the meeting's done?02:16
rwwnhaines: no, it's within scope02:17
pleia2rww: go for it02:17
rww(second, typing)02:17
rwwI would like to amend section C of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Leadership to mandate that decisions on topics added to the agenda < 48 hours before the meeting or brought up during "Any other business" cannot be finalized during a meeting and must go to the mailing list for discussion.02:18
darthrobotTitle: [CaliforniaTeam/Leadership - Ubuntu Wiki]02:18
pleia2rww: seems reasonable02:19
rwwI recognize the hilarity of suggesting this during "Any other business".02:19
nhainesI really like the idea that we could vote on and....  yes.  :)02:19
pleia2rww: can you send a proposal to the list?02:19
epsAdd it to the agenda for the next meeting. :-)02:19
rwwGood idea, I probably will.02:20
rww(This will also give me a chance to use the word "agendized", which is my new favorite word since I heard it at a school board meeting.)02:21
nhainesSounds good to me.02:21
rwwAnyways. Other topics?02:21
* ianorlin can't think of any02:21
pleia2alright, thanks everyone02:22
darthrobotMeeting ended Mon May 19 02:22:28 2014 UTC.02:22
darthrobotMinutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-05-19-02.02.moin.txt02:22
nhainesAnother successful meeting!  \o/02:22
eps"successful" is code for _short_02:22
rwwanyways, as far as Mozilla and DRM goes...02:23
* ianorlin thinks maybe there should be something like a drm block plugin for firefox if someone wanted it02:23
nhainesdarthrobot: thanks for your email  :)02:23
darthrobotnhaines: Error: "thanks" is not a valid command.02:23
nhainesAlso I meant DalekMagnus.02:23
nhainesianorlin: if you don't want the DRM plugin, why would you install it in the first place?02:23
akkMy question about mozilla DRM: is this basically just another adobe plug-in that won't be available on Linux? Or what?02:23
ianorlinno it blocks drm02:23
akkNone of the doom-and-gloom articles I've seen have even mentioned that.02:24
rwwFirefox has had an interface to implement DRM in the browser for ages. You may know it as NPAPI, and the plugin as Flash. The major difference between NPAPI and their implementation of EME is that CSMs (EME plugins) are sandboxed.02:24
nhainesianorlin: DRM is self-blocking.02:24
rwwTherefore, I do not get why everyone is up in arms about this at all.02:24
nhainesakk: I think people are expecting the plugin to be available on Linux although I'm not entirely sure why now that I think about it.  :)02:24
DalekMagnusCan't tell what the DRM'd bits could do?02:24
epsrww: I suggest you read EFF's commentary.02:24
rwwIt's strictly an improvement over how things used to be done. It's optional. The CSM isn't shipped with Firefox, just like Flash ishn't.02:24
rwweps: I have read it.02:25
elkybecause DRM is bad and anything that mentions it is thus bad by fear uncertainty and doubt02:25
akknhaines: Didn't adobe stop shipping even flash for Linux? So I assumed any new plug-in wouldn't be available.02:25
akkBut I wish someone would say when they write about it.02:25
nhainesakk: they stopped maintaining it but still ship it.02:25
akkI hate DRM as much as the next linux gal, but I'm not clear how this changes the status quo at all.02:26
rwwIt doesn't.02:26
nhainesakk: it makes the browser more secure, that's all.02:26
akkLike, the evil silverlite netflix stuff worked with firefox before, didn't it? except not on Linux.02:26
akkAnd that's DRM.02:26
nhainesakk: it does on Linux with Pipelight.  :D02:27
nhainesBut yeah.02:27
darthrobotTitle: [Robert Wall - Google+ - Firefox's implementation of the W3C EME specification is…]02:27
nhainesWell, silverlight isn't DRM.  But that's what Netflix uses it for.02:27
akkOkay, if you know what hoops to jump through you can sometimes trick it into working :)02:27
epsnhaines, akk: Adobe still supports the 11.2 branch for 32-bit and 64-bit Linux.02:27
DalekMagnusThey had something on their roadmap to make it work on html5 didn't they? (they = netflix)02:27
nhainesDalekMagnus: yes, but only if HTML5 supports DRM.02:28
akkYeah, I thought I'd heard about adobe shipping fixes for major security flaws, even on linux.02:28
rww"Adobe will continue to provide security updates to non-Pepper distributions of Flash Player 11.2 on Linux for five years from its release." ~ https://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html02:29
darthrobotTitle: [Adobe and Google Partnering for Flash Player on Linux]02:29
epsakk: with simultaneous releases on all platforms. Basically, it will show up in Canonical's partner repository the day after the Windows and OS X customers get theirs.02:29
rwwakk: Pepper is the plugin API Chrome/ium use02:30
rwwand 11.2 came out in March 2012, so flashplugin-nonfree finally goes away in 201702:30
nhainesThe same time Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS does.02:31
akkIt would be so nice to think that by 2017, the net will be using some other format for video02:31
akk(but I'll believe it when I see it).02:31
nhainesakk: I vote for RealMedia.02:31
nhainesWhy?  Becau--[buffering]02:31
akknhaines: lol02:32
akkthough that's my experience with html5 video too, generally02:32
epsMuch as we'd all like to see Flash die a swift and painful death, evil Mozilloids have a plan to keep it around, a/k/a Project Shumway.02:32
epsSupposedly Flash minus the DRM parts, har har.02:32
akkI haven't actually seen any Real video in years. (or at least knowingly seen it)02:33
* ianorlin doesn't understand what is great about flash02:33
rwwwhile I'm assuming that you're being hyperbolic for humor, you may want to avoid it, since someone may take comments like "evil" seriously02:33
rwwwhich will not exactly keep the channel nice and chill02:33
epsianorlin: s/is/was/02:33
akkianorlin: Only the lack of anything better to replace it for cross-platform streaming video.02:33
nhainesWhich is something that HTML5 tried to manage.02:33
nhainesAlthough actually that worked.02:34
akkThe trouble with html5 video is the codec plethora. I'm completely confused about which codec is which, which ones are open and which ones any given browser+platform supports02:34
epsWhat was great about Flash has nothing to do with video. Flash "peaked" around version 5, and has gone downhill ever since, as unrelated crap (like video) got added to it.02:34
akkand so are all the video providers, afaict, so understandably they just use flash instead02:35
nhainesakk: youtube.com/html5 is reasonable helpful about that for your current browser.02:35
akkeps: The only thing I ever use flash for (as a browser user) is streaming video, sites like youtube.02:35
rwwakk: Yep. That wasn't made easier by Mozilla not implementing h.264 for a while.02:35
epsH.264 is patent encumbered.02:35
akkIsn't h.264 the one that has built-in drm and isn't available on linux? (remember I mentioned being confused about all the codecs)02:36
rwweps: I'm aware of this. So are a heck of a lot of things on an average Linux system.02:36
rwwWelcome to the broken patent system.02:36
nhainesakk: nope, it's in ubuntu-restricted-extras.02:36
epsH.264 != DRM02:36
akkyeah, I was probably confusing drm with patent encumbrance.02:36
akkSo is ubuntu paying to use it, or what? Can distros like debian and arch use it?02:37
ianorlinother uses of flash are annoying02:37
akkI thought patent implied no linux.02:37
nhainesSoftware patents aren't a thing in Europe.02:37
epsCisco paid a king's ransom for a blanket license to distribute precompiled binaries. They're also supposed to publish the source code, which you can compile yourself to prove it's bit-for-bit identical, but only the binaries come with the required licensing.02:37
akknhaines: I've tried turning on google's html5 flag for youtube. It's horrible -- it takes way more bandwidth and CPU, so I spend all my time waiting for buffering, and end up switching it back off.02:38
akkI'm not sure what codec that is but it makes me like (gag, cough) flash.02:38
ianorlinwebm uses a ton of cpu on my comp02:38
akkI hate flash in theory, but in practice it works okay.02:38
nhainesakk: I mainly dislike not getting resolution choices, so yeah.  But the page itself shows you what your browser does and doesn't support.02:38
epsH.264 is interesting because most people have hardware decoding these days, so it doesn't impact the CPU much.02:39
akknhaines: "support" doesn't mean "can actually watch videos in realtime", unfortunately.02:39
nhainesFlash is just streaming H.264 in most cases anyway I think.02:39
epsmhaines: correct02:39
ianorlinwhat cpu flag is that not sure I do02:39
epsIt's not a CPU flag. It's done on the GPU.02:40
akkMaybe it's an issue with intel video chipset support on linux, then? Which all my machines have.02:40
epsAh. NVIDIA w/proprietary drivers here.02:42
* ianorlin has intel series 4 mobile chipset02:42
akkI don't want the hassle of installing proprietary drivers, and I don't play games, so I stick with intel.02:42
* ianorlin has intel as well02:43
akkThe only 3d stuff I do is the occasional google earth (sigh, more proprietary binary downloads).02:43
nhainesI just install the binary drivers from the repos and then forget about it.  I'm far too lazy to worry about tracking drivers by hand.02:43
nhainesIf I wanted that I'd just run Windows.02:43
rwwpsh, on Windows you presumably would have Steam installed, which would track them for you :P02:44
epsIntel has proprietary drivers, too. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/05/intel-linux-graphics-driver-installer-1-0-502:44
darthrobotTitle: [Intel Adds Ubuntu 14.04 Support to Linux Graphics Driver Installer | OMG! Ubuntu!]02:44
nhainesrww: Steam says it does that but I've never noticed it helping.  :)02:45
nhaineseps: I don't believe those are proprietary.02:45
rwwnhaines: it's popped up with notices on an AMD system once or twice02:46
nhainesHmm.  I'll have to poke it the next time I boot Windows.02:46
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: June 1st at 7PM | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
epsHmm... it doesn't look like Intel wants Linux users to have access to hardware H.264 decoding ("Quick Sync Video").03:07
pleia2rww: you get to play chair for the June 15th because airplane http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-california/789/detail/03:26
darthrobotTitle: [Ubuntu California Team Meeting | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]03:26
rwwpleia2: okays03:38
=== jono is now known as Guest96931
=== Yasumoto_ is now known as Yasumoto

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!