[01:51] <DalekMagnus> Hi everyone.
[01:56] <nhaines> DalekMagnus: hi!
[01:56] <pleia2> o/
[01:56] <ianorlin> o/
[01:58] <nhaines> Well it was nice of him to stop by.
[01:58] <pleia2> lol
[02:01] <nhaines> I realized that due to time zones my article deadline is actually tomorrow night.  Which means I'll be writing constantly until then.  :P
[02:01] <nhaines> But at least it'll be finished.  :)
[02:02] <nhaines> Well, I have a cold bottle of pear cider.  Time to start the meeting then?
[02:02] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[02:02] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon May 19 02:02:34 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:02] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:02] <pleia2> ok, who all is here for the meeting? :)
[02:02] <nhaines> _o/
[02:03] <ianorlin> o/
[02:03]  * eps waves
[02:03] <pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14May18
[02:03] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14May18 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:03] <pleia2> #topic OCLUG Installfest
[02:03] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/OCLUGInstallFestMay2014
[02:03] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/OCLUGInstallFestMay2014 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:03] <pleia2> nhaines: anything you wish to talk about?
[02:04] <nhaines> Everything's rolling along logistically.  Other than pizza money, everything is all in place.
[02:04] <nhaines> What's not in place are volunteers.  I've only received one email, so I assume no one else is going.
[02:04]  * ianorlin needs to send email
[02:04] <DalekMagnus> I can go
[02:05] <DalekMagnus> I just confirmed with my fiance >_>
[02:05] <DalekMagnus> she gave me a stare
[02:05] <DalekMagnus> horriffying*
[02:05] <nhaines> The more the merrier.  Basically we need people to help with installation.
[02:05] <nhaines> And by "installation" I mean figuring out if the hardware sounds sane and then figuring out how to boot from a DVD.
[02:05] <DalekMagnus> Oh that's cake, will do
[02:05] <DalekMagnus> ah, more fun
[02:06] <nhaines> As far as fixing scary arcade installation problems, well the more installers we have, the freer myself and a couple others will be to troubleshoot.  So don't worry about that.  :)
[02:06] <nhaines> Anyone from Ubuntu California who has signed the Code of Conduct will get an Ubuntu name badge to wear, assuming the email me their full name before Saturday.  :P
[02:07] <DalekMagnus> lol I hope I see an arcade build
[02:07] <DalekMagnus> !
[02:07] <nhaines> So email me at nhaines at ubuntu.com if you can make it.  Details are here: http://www.oclug.org/installfest.html
[02:07] <darthrobot> Title: [OCLUG Installfest]
[02:07] <nhaines> The most important thing is that we're featuring Ubuntu and not talking about the command line other than the very, very brief mention that *I* will give during the install.
[02:08] <nhaines> Mainly so that people understand why they're given a list of commands to copy/paste when they search for answers on the Internet.
[02:09] <nhaines> Other than that we're just going to stay positive, not mention other software in a negative manner, etc.  :)
[02:09] <nhaines> I think that's about it.
[02:09] <pleia2> great, thanks nhaines
[02:09] <ianorlin> yeah not get into a war about which is best
[02:09] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[02:10] <pleia2> so, do we have other stuff to talk about?
[02:10] <eps> BALUG?
[02:10] <pleia2> yeah, as I mentioned on list I'll be presenting on 14.04 at BALUG on tuesday
[02:10] <pleia2> http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2014-May/000672.html
[02:10] <darthrobot> Title: [[BALUG-Announce] BALUG meeting Tu 2014-05-20: Elizabeth KrumbachJoseph on Ubuntu14.04 LTS "Trusty Tahr"; & other BALUG news]
[02:11] <eps> Actually, I do have something new:
[02:11] <eps> In re https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/05/14/drm-and-the-challenge-of-serving-users/
[02:11] <darthrobot> Title: [DRM and the Challenge of Serving Users | The Mozilla Blog]
[02:11] <pleia2> I also presented at FeltonLUG yesterday, slides at BALUG will be similar, anyone is welcome to use them: http://princessleia.com/presentations/1404-whats-new-felton.pdf (and .odp)
[02:11] <darthrobot> Content type: [application/pdf] Size: [94938]
[02:11] <eps> I would like to propose a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases.
[02:12] <nhaines> Out of scope.
[02:12] <nhaines> Besides which, of course, they're not implementing DRM.  Adobe is.
[02:12] <eps> nhaines: really? We can't take a position on that?
[02:12] <akk> I have questions about that and wouldn't mind discussing it after the meeting.
[02:12] <pleia2> I'm not really interested in that
[02:12] <ianorlin> good thing is other browsers in repos
[02:12] <nhaines> akk: that sounds like a capital idea.  :)
[02:13] <pleia2> anything else?
[02:13] <nhaines> eps: "out of scope" is merely my opinion.
[02:14] <eps> Two votes: one to determine whether it's in scope, with a second on the resolution if the first one passes.
[02:15] <pleia2> #vote Should a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases be within the scope of this team
[02:15] <darthrobot> Please vote on: Should a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases be within the scope of this team
[02:15] <darthrobot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[02:15] <pleia2> -1
[02:15] <darthrobot> -1 received from pleia2
[02:15] <rww> -1
[02:15] <darthrobot> -1 received from rww
[02:15] <nhaines> -1
[02:15] <darthrobot> -1 received from nhaines
[02:15] <eps> +1
[02:15] <darthrobot> +1 received from eps
[02:15] <DalekMagnus> -1
[02:15] <darthrobot> -1 received from DalekMagnus
[02:15] <pleia2> anyone else?
[02:16] <elky> sure -1
[02:16] <elky> -1
[02:16] <darthrobot> -1 received from elky
[02:16] <pleia2> #endvote
[02:16] <darthrobot> Voting ended on: Should a vote to condemn Mozilla's decision to implement DRM in upcoming Firefox releases be within the scope of this team
[02:16] <darthrobot> Votes for:1 Votes against:5 Abstentions:0
[02:16] <darthrobot> Motion denied
[02:16] <rww> (Once this is done, I have a topic)
[02:16] <pleia2> eps: sounds like it's an after meeting discussion for folks interested in the topic in general
[02:16] <nhaines> rww: once the meeting's done?
[02:17] <rww> nhaines: no, it's within scope
[02:17] <pleia2> rww: go for it
[02:17] <DalekMagnus> (bleh)
[02:17] <rww> (second, typing)
[02:18] <rww> I would like to amend section C of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Leadership to mandate that decisions on topics added to the agenda < 48 hours before the meeting or brought up during "Any other business" cannot be finalized during a meeting and must go to the mailing list for discussion.
[02:18] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Leadership - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:19] <pleia2> rww: seems reasonable
[02:19] <rww> I recognize the hilarity of suggesting this during "Any other business".
[02:19] <nhaines> I really like the idea that we could vote on and....  yes.  :)
[02:19] <pleia2> rww: can you send a proposal to the list?
[02:19] <rww> yep
[02:19] <pleia2> cool
[02:19] <eps> Add it to the agenda for the next meeting. :-)
[02:20] <rww> Good idea, I probably will.
[02:21] <rww> (This will also give me a chance to use the word "agendized", which is my new favorite word since I heard it at a school board meeting.)
[02:21] <nhaines> Sounds good to me.
[02:21] <rww> Anyways. Other topics?
[02:21] <DalekMagnus> haha
[02:21]  * ianorlin can't think of any
[02:22] <pleia2> alright, thanks everyone
[02:22] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[02:22] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon May 19 02:22:28 2014 UTC.
[02:22] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-05-19-02.02.moin.txt
[02:22] <nhaines> Another successful meeting!  \o/
[02:22] <eps> "successful" is code for _short_
[02:23] <rww> anyways, as far as Mozilla and DRM goes...
[02:23]  * ianorlin thinks maybe there should be something like a drm block plugin for firefox if someone wanted it
[02:23] <nhaines> darthrobot: thanks for your email  :)
[02:23] <darthrobot> nhaines: Error: "thanks" is not a valid command.
[02:23] <nhaines> Also I meant DalekMagnus.
[02:23] <DalekMagnus> :D
[02:23] <nhaines> ianorlin: if you don't want the DRM plugin, why would you install it in the first place?
[02:23] <akk> My question about mozilla DRM: is this basically just another adobe plug-in that won't be available on Linux? Or what?
[02:23] <ianorlin> no it blocks drm
[02:24] <akk> None of the doom-and-gloom articles I've seen have even mentioned that.
[02:24] <rww> Firefox has had an interface to implement DRM in the browser for ages. You may know it as NPAPI, and the plugin as Flash. The major difference between NPAPI and their implementation of EME is that CSMs (EME plugins) are sandboxed.
[02:24] <nhaines> ianorlin: DRM is self-blocking.
[02:24] <rww> Therefore, I do not get why everyone is up in arms about this at all.
[02:24] <nhaines> akk: I think people are expecting the plugin to be available on Linux although I'm not entirely sure why now that I think about it.  :)
[02:24] <DalekMagnus> Can't tell what the DRM'd bits could do?
[02:24] <eps> rww: I suggest you read EFF's commentary.
[02:24] <rww> It's strictly an improvement over how things used to be done. It's optional. The CSM isn't shipped with Firefox, just like Flash ishn't.
[02:25] <rww> eps: I have read it.
[02:25] <elky> because DRM is bad and anything that mentions it is thus bad by fear uncertainty and doubt
[02:25] <akk> nhaines: Didn't adobe stop shipping even flash for Linux? So I assumed any new plug-in wouldn't be available.
[02:25] <akk> But I wish someone would say when they write about it.
[02:25] <nhaines> akk: they stopped maintaining it but still ship it.
[02:26] <akk> I hate DRM as much as the next linux gal, but I'm not clear how this changes the status quo at all.
[02:26] <rww> It doesn't.
[02:26] <nhaines> akk: it makes the browser more secure, that's all.
[02:26] <akk> Like, the evil silverlite netflix stuff worked with firefox before, didn't it? except not on Linux.
[02:26] <akk> And that's DRM.
[02:27] <nhaines> akk: it does on Linux with Pipelight.  :D
[02:27] <rww> https://plus.google.com/+RobertWallW/posts/SgjFAHGt53N
[02:27] <nhaines> But yeah.
[02:27] <darthrobot> Title: [Robert Wall - Google+ - Firefox's implementation of the W3C EME specification is…]
[02:27] <nhaines> Well, silverlight isn't DRM.  But that's what Netflix uses it for.
[02:27] <akk> Okay, if you know what hoops to jump through you can sometimes trick it into working :)
[02:27] <eps> nhaines, akk: Adobe still supports the 11.2 branch for 32-bit and 64-bit Linux.
[02:27] <DalekMagnus> They had something on their roadmap to make it work on html5 didn't they? (they = netflix)
[02:28] <nhaines> DalekMagnus: yes, but only if HTML5 supports DRM.
[02:28] <akk> Yeah, I thought I'd heard about adobe shipping fixes for major security flaws, even on linux.
[02:29] <rww> "Adobe will continue to provide security updates to non-Pepper distributions of Flash Player 11.2 on Linux for five years from its release." ~ https://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html
[02:29] <darthrobot> Title: [Adobe and Google Partnering for Flash Player on Linux]
[02:29] <akk> non-Pepper?
[02:29] <eps> akk: with simultaneous releases on all platforms. Basically, it will show up in Canonical's partner repository the day after the Windows and OS X customers get theirs.
[02:30] <rww> akk: Pepper is the plugin API Chrome/ium use
[02:30] <rww> and 11.2 came out in March 2012, so flashplugin-nonfree finally goes away in 2017
[02:31] <nhaines> The same time Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS does.
[02:31] <akk> It would be so nice to think that by 2017, the net will be using some other format for video
[02:31] <akk> (but I'll believe it when I see it).
[02:31] <nhaines> akk: I vote for RealMedia.
[02:31] <nhaines> Why?  Becau--[buffering]
[02:32] <akk> nhaines: lol
[02:32] <akk> though that's my experience with html5 video too, generally
[02:32] <eps> Much as we'd all like to see Flash die a swift and painful death, evil Mozilloids have a plan to keep it around, a/k/a Project Shumway.
[02:32] <eps> Supposedly Flash minus the DRM parts, har har.
[02:33] <akk> I haven't actually seen any Real video in years. (or at least knowingly seen it)
[02:33]  * ianorlin doesn't understand what is great about flash
[02:33] <rww> while I'm assuming that you're being hyperbolic for humor, you may want to avoid it, since someone may take comments like "evil" seriously
[02:33] <rww> which will not exactly keep the channel nice and chill
[02:33] <eps> ianorlin: s/is/was/
[02:33] <akk> ianorlin: Only the lack of anything better to replace it for cross-platform streaming video.
[02:33] <nhaines> Which is something that HTML5 tried to manage.
[02:34] <nhaines> Although actually that worked.
[02:34] <akk> The trouble with html5 video is the codec plethora. I'm completely confused about which codec is which, which ones are open and which ones any given browser+platform supports
[02:34] <eps> What was great about Flash has nothing to do with video. Flash "peaked" around version 5, and has gone downhill ever since, as unrelated crap (like video) got added to it.
[02:35] <akk> and so are all the video providers, afaict, so understandably they just use flash instead
[02:35] <nhaines> akk: youtube.com/html5 is reasonable helpful about that for your current browser.
[02:35] <akk> eps: The only thing I ever use flash for (as a browser user) is streaming video, sites like youtube.
[02:35] <rww> akk: Yep. That wasn't made easier by Mozilla not implementing h.264 for a while.
[02:35] <eps> H.264 is patent encumbered.
[02:36] <akk> Isn't h.264 the one that has built-in drm and isn't available on linux? (remember I mentioned being confused about all the codecs)
[02:36] <rww> eps: I'm aware of this. So are a heck of a lot of things on an average Linux system.
[02:36] <rww> Welcome to the broken patent system.
[02:36] <nhaines> akk: nope, it's in ubuntu-restricted-extras.
[02:36] <eps> H.264 != DRM
[02:36] <akk> yeah, I was probably confusing drm with patent encumbrance.
[02:37] <akk> So is ubuntu paying to use it, or what? Can distros like debian and arch use it?
[02:37] <ianorlin> other uses of flash are annoying
[02:37] <akk> I thought patent implied no linux.
[02:37] <nhaines> Software patents aren't a thing in Europe.
[02:37] <eps> Cisco paid a king's ransom for a blanket license to distribute precompiled binaries. They're also supposed to publish the source code, which you can compile yourself to prove it's bit-for-bit identical, but only the binaries come with the required licensing.
[02:38] <akk> nhaines: I've tried turning on google's html5 flag for youtube. It's horrible -- it takes way more bandwidth and CPU, so I spend all my time waiting for buffering, and end up switching it back off.
[02:38] <akk> I'm not sure what codec that is but it makes me like (gag, cough) flash.
[02:38] <ianorlin> webm uses a ton of cpu on my comp
[02:38] <akk> I hate flash in theory, but in practice it works okay.
[02:38] <nhaines> akk: I mainly dislike not getting resolution choices, so yeah.  But the page itself shows you what your browser does and doesn't support.
[02:39] <eps> H.264 is interesting because most people have hardware decoding these days, so it doesn't impact the CPU much.
[02:39] <akk> nhaines: "support" doesn't mean "can actually watch videos in realtime", unfortunately.
[02:39] <nhaines> Flash is just streaming H.264 in most cases anyway I think.
[02:39] <eps> mhaines: correct
[02:39] <ianorlin> what cpu flag is that not sure I do
[02:40] <eps> It's not a CPU flag. It's done on the GPU.
[02:40] <akk> Maybe it's an issue with intel video chipset support on linux, then? Which all my machines have.
[02:42] <eps> Ah. NVIDIA w/proprietary drivers here.
[02:42]  * ianorlin has intel series 4 mobile chipset
[02:42] <akk> I don't want the hassle of installing proprietary drivers, and I don't play games, so I stick with intel.
[02:43]  * ianorlin has intel as well
[02:43] <akk> The only 3d stuff I do is the occasional google earth (sigh, more proprietary binary downloads).
[02:43] <nhaines> I just install the binary drivers from the repos and then forget about it.  I'm far too lazy to worry about tracking drivers by hand.
[02:43] <nhaines> If I wanted that I'd just run Windows.
[02:44] <rww> psh, on Windows you presumably would have Steam installed, which would track them for you :P
[02:44] <eps> Intel has proprietary drivers, too. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/05/intel-linux-graphics-driver-installer-1-0-5
[02:44] <darthrobot> Title: [Intel Adds Ubuntu 14.04 Support to Linux Graphics Driver Installer | OMG! Ubuntu!]
[02:45] <nhaines> rww: Steam says it does that but I've never noticed it helping.  :)
[02:45] <nhaines> eps: I don't believe those are proprietary.
[02:46] <rww> nhaines: it's popped up with notices on an AMD system once or twice
[02:46] <nhaines> Hmm.  I'll have to poke it the next time I boot Windows.
[03:07] <eps> Hmm... it doesn't look like Intel wants Linux users to have access to hardware H.264 decoding ("Quick Sync Video").
[03:26] <pleia2> rww: you get to play chair for the June 15th because airplane http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-california/789/detail/
[03:26] <darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu California Team Meeting | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
[03:38] <rww> pleia2: okays