[00:10] <ochosi> bluesabre: so how does the fix work now? inhibit xflock or systemd?
[00:12] <bluesabre> inhibit systemd
[00:12] <ochosi> ok, that should work i guess
[00:12] <ochosi> well, at the same time we have to re-activate the --lock-on-suspend option in light-locker
[00:12] <ochosi> but iirc you already did that in the package in xubuntu-dev?
[00:12] <bluesabre> yes
[00:13] <bluesabre> but we will have to extend that further
[00:13] <ochosi> or was there some confusion last time we talked about that
[00:13] <bluesabre> to enable/disable the xfpm setting
[00:13] <ochosi> right
[00:13] <ochosi> true
[00:13] <ochosi> talked to eric today about integrating locking in xfpm
[00:13] <ochosi> and then i made the mistake to say that there aren't that many different lockers... :p
[00:14] <bluesabre> :D
[00:14] <ochosi> http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5359
[00:15] <bluesabre> is that the new xflock4?
[00:18] <ochosi> well, that is one of the few patches floating in bugzilla for it
[00:18] <ochosi> obviously there was nobody who was willing to apply any of them
[00:19] <ochosi> which is maybe yet another good reason to let xfpm handle it
[00:19] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:19] <bluesabre> or take up ownership of xflock4
[00:19] <bluesabre> or both
[00:19] <ochosi> oh no, not another project :)
[00:19] <bluesabre> :)
[00:19] <ochosi> although i still have some hope inside that xfpm is a passing thing
[00:20] <ochosi> 1) merge patches
[00:20] <ochosi> 2) improve a few things
[00:20] <ochosi> 3) do a release
[00:20] <ochosi> 4) flee the scene
[00:20] <bluesabre> :)
[00:20] <ochosi> this is actually my preferred schedule
[00:20] <bluesabre> 4) clean up the code a bunch
[00:20] <bluesabre> notice that there are two 4)s
[00:20] <bluesabre> ;)
[00:20] <ochosi> oh lordy, that'd be a fun job with xfpm
[00:21] <ochosi> but yeah, it would certainly be good
[00:21] <ochosi> i might do a settings cleanup
[00:21] <ochosi> currently there is a callback for each button in the code just to modify the xfconf setting
[00:21] <bluesabre> I'll have work for you with the display dialog soon
[00:21] <bluesabre> once I pull in the graphical editor
[00:22] <ochosi> oh right, that one
[00:22] <ochosi> let me quickly look whether i still have any of my older mockups..
[00:23] <ochosi> hm, i do. but it needs adjustments...
[00:23] <ochosi> http://imgur.com/oM4xBIe
[00:24] <ochosi> that one is more than 2 years old :p
[00:24] <ochosi> i think i made that when we started adding the extended desktop mode
[00:25] <bluesabre> works for me
[00:25] <bluesabre> I'll shoot for that style with the initial import
[00:25] <bluesabre> and we can tweak from there
[00:25] <ochosi> sounds good to me
[00:26] <ochosi> well the main question is whether the graphical DND part should be on a side or on top
[00:26] <ochosi> or: on the left or on top
[00:26] <ochosi> i think i thought left last time because ppl tend to have wider screens nowadays
[00:26] <bluesabre> side actually makes more sense
[00:26] <bluesabre> otherwise theres too much verical
[00:27] <bluesabre> xfce header
[00:27] <bluesabre> graphical editor
[00:27] <bluesabre> settings
[00:27] <ochosi> btw, the distance between the two displays in the mockup probably isn't desirable
[00:27] <ochosi> they should touch
[00:27] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:27] <ochosi> and the size/ratio should be accurate
[00:27] <bluesabre> yup
[00:27] <bluesabre> this is our starting point from ate
[00:27] <bluesabre> mate
[00:27] <ochosi> i'll do the fancy cairo drawing for the displays ;)
[00:28] <ochosi> i guess they didn't change anything in mate and it's still the same 1000 lines from gnome2
[00:29] <ochosi> (i remember we even looked at gnome2 last time we worked on the display dialog)
[00:29] <bluesabre> https://imgur.com/1Hrwod4
[00:29] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:29] <bluesabre> theoretically the mate code should be cleaner
[00:29] <bluesabre> it wasn't so bad removing everything else
[00:30] <bluesabre> ah
[00:30] <bluesabre> tooltip was chilling there
[00:30] <bluesabre> anyway, monitor label inside monitor
[00:30] <ochosi> hm, i wonder *seriously*... why do the colors of the displays in this dialog have to be randomized and so different/fugly
[00:30] <ochosi> right, wfm
[00:30] <bluesabre> yeah, that's something we'll improve upon :D
[00:30] <ochosi> definitely :)
[00:31] <ochosi> and i think the left/right separation makes more sense than this mix
[00:31] <ochosi> the left-top thing isn't very space-saving and clear
[00:31] <bluesabre> agreed
[00:31] <ochosi> some options on the left, some on the right...
[00:32] <ochosi> so this is already the stripped down code?
[00:32] <bluesabre> mate-control-center with only the display-dialog
[00:33] <bluesabre> so now we just swap out mate/dbus stuff with xfce stuff
[00:33] <bluesabre> and drop it in
[00:33] <ochosi> wow, that sounds almost too simple
[00:33] <bluesabre> it probably is
[00:33] <ochosi> but the main difference is that we don't have an apply button anymore
[00:33] <bluesabre> we'll see what happens when I get around to that
[00:34] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:34] <ochosi> so things get executed live
[00:34] <ochosi> we'll have to change that back i guess
[00:34] <bluesabre> that might not be desirable
[00:34] <bluesabre> with dragging displays precisely
[00:34] <ochosi> no idea how to do that without an apply button
[00:35] <bluesabre> I might check to see what elementary has in that regard
[00:35] <bluesabre> since they hate excess anything
[00:35] <ochosi> i think they use the gnome3 stuff
[00:35] <ochosi> if not, it'll be in vala
[00:36] <ochosi> :)
[00:36] <bluesabre> :)
[00:36]  * bluesabre checks his Luna vm
[00:36] <ochosi> so it'll be easy to tell even from looking at the source
[00:37] <bluesabre> https://imgur.com/A2ImK8k
[00:38] <bluesabre> just feels wrong
[00:38] <bluesabre> unbalanced
[00:38] <ochosi> yup, that seems to be plain gnome
[00:38] <ochosi> weee, ochosi made a more balanced mockup than elementary
[00:39] <bluesabre> :D
[00:40] <ochosi> http://manual.openlp.org/_images/gnome3displays.png
[00:40] <ochosi> looks familiar ^ ?
[00:40] <bluesabre> indeed
[00:40] <ochosi> ubuntu also uses the same dialog afaik
[00:41] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:41] <bluesabre> time for xfce to stand out again
[00:41] <bluesabre> :D
[00:41] <bluesabre> we've gotta keep this up
[00:41] <ochosi> indeed :)
[00:42] <bluesabre> anyway, gotta run for a bit, bbl
[00:42] <ochosi> heh, well i probably won't be around then anymore
[00:42] <bluesabre> probably
[00:42] <ochosi> will also try to get some sleep now
[00:42] <bluesabre> will you be around this weekend any?
[00:42] <ochosi> but i'll be around in the morning
[00:42] <ochosi> i'll try, but it's going to be sunny outside
[00:42] <ochosi> and the beach is so near...
[00:42] <bluesabre> :)
[00:42] <bluesabre> fair enough
[00:42] <ochosi> if it rains, i'll surely be around
[00:43] <ochosi> i guess saturday i should be able to make some time
[00:43] <bluesabre> cool
[00:43] <ochosi> we should arrange/plan it a bit though
[00:43] <bluesabre> I might be on in the morning
[00:43] <bluesabre> going to try to work a bit extra tomorrow
[00:43] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[00:43] <ochosi> k, hf bluesabre 
[00:45] <boxer> Good evening everyone
[00:47] <ochosi> hi boxer 
[00:47] <boxer> the distos looking good :)
[00:48] <ochosi> thanks
[01:21] <bluesabre> ochosi: here's the complete diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/7503764/
[01:33] <bluesabre> ... and I have no idea how to create a new branch on git.xfce now
[01:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-power-manager/commit/2f51d54f2efc7b9c87e39fb114adb06a974dcb67
[01:43] <bluesabre> since it might be worthwhile to pull in upstream
[01:48] <bluesabre> woops, tack that on to it as well: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-power-manager/commit/4ad07201e3569443024b10783515f94454618381
[01:49] <bluesabre> now to work on the ubuntu package version of that
[02:18] <bluesabre> ok, fixed package uploaded to xubuntu-dev ppa (since thats where the previous one was)
[02:18] <bluesabre> working on fixed lls now
[02:32] <bluesabre> ochosi: fixed lls uploaded, let's hope I made proper sense of this...
[02:32] <bluesabre> /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch = TRUE
[02:32] <bluesabre> handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key:handle-lid-switch
[02:32] <bluesabre> and 
[02:32] <bluesabre> /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch = FALSE
[02:33] <bluesabre> handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
[02:33] <bluesabre> So if lock-screen-suspend-hibernate is true, make this false.
[02:34] <bluesabre> hopefully that's the end of that fiasco :)
[02:51] <bluesabre> ochosi: both packages are now live, and seem to work as expected
[02:52] <bluesabre> (as far as I can tell)
[06:42] <elfy> ochosi: I'm due to expire from -release in a week - can you deal with that please
[06:43] <elfy> blue sabre will be expiring at the same time
[06:56] <elfy> can I either have a password for the -users m/l or stop getting the moderation mails please
[07:32] <knome> elfy, lol, i'll do that for you now
[07:33] <Unit193> +1
[07:33] <knome> that's how we treat people who do not wish to be subscribed to the -users list anyway ;)
[07:33] <knome> make them moderators but not give the password.
[07:33] <knome> would you rather want to subscribe? :P
[08:21] <jhenke> morning folks
[09:49] <ochosi> morning folks
[09:50] <slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
[09:50] <ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
[09:51] <ochosi> knome: so you've taken care of all the expiration dates already?
[09:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: awesome, will take it for a ride now and then torture elfy with it next
[09:52] <ochosi> elfy: and just so you know, we're really trying to move all relevant conversations to this channel...
[10:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: yup, seems to all work as expected (also checked the xfconf settings and the lightlocker desktop file)! awesome sauce!
[10:26] <ochosi> elfy: whenever you're around and testy, please update the xubuntu-dev PPA for new packages of xfpm and lls and repeat the instructions you posted on the bugreport
[10:53] <knome> ochosi, no... i postponed them for some time to allow reorganizing the release team
[10:53] <knome> ochosi, people *will* expire unless you extend their membership
[10:56] <ochosi> right
[10:58] <knome> if you need more thinking time, just make them expire one month later
[10:59] <ochosi> i'm still waiting for the technical lead stuff to be decided to be able to put ppl on the release team
[10:59] <ochosi> i guess it'll be elfy, me and $dev-lead
[11:03] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'm reposting the testing instructions on the bugreport btw
[11:04] <ochosi> we can expect that it won't work for everyone, because some ppl misunderstood the bug description in the past and hence wanted to see something else fixed...
[11:05] <elfy> ochosi: what I've done with people in -qa is set it so they expire a week or so after cycle release
[11:06] <elfy> will get to the PPA shortly 
[11:06] <knome> elfy, pretty much same what is going on with -release, but  now() > $release+7
[11:07] <ochosi> i've added a huge disclaimer to the testing instructions now, let's hope ppl also read it
[11:07] <elfy> ochosi: is that like TOPIC or STUCK THREAD ?
[11:07] <elfy> good luck with that then :p
[11:07] <ochosi> heh, yeah
[11:07] <ochosi> well it makes me feel better and isn't that what ultimately counts ;)
[11:08] <elfy> yea you have to hope so - if not it's time to pack up your toys and move along lol 
[11:08]  * ochosi hates to pack up his toys...
[11:09]  * elfy does to 
[11:09] <elfy> I've been known to chuck them out of the pram though :)
[11:12] <elfy> ochosi: checking the ppa and suspend - check with llightlocker - purge - check with xscreensaver ?
[11:13] <ochosi> well, if/when you check with xscreensaver, you have to change an xfconf setting
[11:13] <elfy> ok 
[11:13] <ochosi> let's do this: first check ll, and if it works, ping me :)
[11:13] <ochosi> then we continue with xscreensaver
[11:13] <elfy> ack
[11:32] <bluesabre> good luck guys, let me know how it goes :)
[11:32] <bluesabre> bbl
[11:32] <elfy> ochosi: that failed
[11:32] <elfy> bluesabre: not well ;)
[11:32] <ochosi> that blows
[11:32] <bluesabre> ack
[11:32] <bluesabre> ok
[11:32] <bluesabre> what did not work?
[11:33] <ochosi> elfy: can you paste the following for us ~/.config/autostart/light-locker.desktop
[11:33] <bluesabre> and xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -l -v
[11:34] <ochosi> and also "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch"
[11:34] <ochosi> oh, well mine is more accurate ;)
[11:34] <bluesabre> lol
[11:34] <elfy> ummm
[11:35] <ochosi> and "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/lock-screen-suspend-hibernate"
[11:35] <elfy> you know I'm going to have to type all that out ... 
[11:35] <bluesabre> do mine
[11:35] <bluesabre> its shorter
[11:35] <bluesabre> and will list everything
[11:35] <bluesabre> (assuming you can pastebinit)
[11:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: fun idea: maybe there's also a race condition *with* logind...
[11:36] <bluesabre> could be
[11:37] <hobgoblin> ochosi: which xfconf command please
[11:38] <ochosi> 1) "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch"
[11:38] <ochosi> 2) "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/lock-screen-suspend-hibernate"
[11:38] <ochosi> 3) ~/.config/autostart/light-locker.desktop
[11:40] <hobgoblin> ochosi bluesabre - http://paste.ubuntu.com/7505263/
[11:41] <ochosi> OK
[11:41] <ochosi> there's an obvious flaw
[11:41] <ochosi> not sure why though
[11:41] <bluesabre> ok
[11:41] <ochosi> i need to figure out the xfconf-query command for you first...
[11:41] <bluesabre> killall xfce4-power-manager
[11:41] <ochosi> the logind-handle-lid-switch needs to be created
[11:41] <ochosi> ah, or follow bluesabre  ;)
[11:42] <bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager --no-daemon --debug
[11:42] <bluesabre> this will give debug output while running/changing things
[11:42] <bluesabre> then open light-locker-settings
[11:43] <hobgoblin> ok -done that
[11:43] <bluesabre> toggle lock on suspend off... apply... on... apply
[11:43] <hobgoblin> done
[11:43] <bluesabre> looking for something similar to
[11:43] <bluesabre> TRACE[xfpm-manager.c:553] xfpm_manager_inhibit_sleep_systemd(): Inhibiting systemd sleep: handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
[11:43] <bluesabre> on the xfpm output
[11:44] <hobgoblin> TRACE[xfpm-manager.c:553] xfpm_manager_inhibit_sleep_systemd(): Inhibiting systemd sleep: handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
[11:44] <bluesabre> ok, at this point it should work correctly
[11:45] <bluesabre> try to see if you're still affected, since we know the output is correct
[11:45] <hobgoblin> just shut the lid then:)
[11:45] <elfy> I really don't like pidgin :)
[11:45] <ochosi> hehe
[11:45] <ochosi> me neither
[11:46] <elfy> ok - that worked that time
[11:46] <ochosi> weeee
[11:46] <bluesabre> excellent!
[11:46] <elfy> only difference being the killall 
[11:46] <ochosi> \o/
[11:46]  * ochosi pats bluesabre on the shoulder
[11:46] <bluesabre> cool, so I'm guessing ochosi didn't have you murder xfpm in his steps
[11:46] <ochosi> hey, i *did* propose a full restart
[11:47] <ochosi> just to be sure
[11:47] <bluesabre> :)
[11:47] <elfy> I did that :p
[11:47] <ochosi> maybe xfpm doesn't like its properties being messed with live
[11:47] <bluesabre> just to be on the safe side...
[11:47] <elfy> I upgraded what was necessary - reinstalled lls and xfpm, rebooted then shut the lid
[11:47] <ochosi> elfy: right, did you change the lls setting after the reboot?
[11:48] <elfy> no
[11:48] <ochosi> hmright
[11:48] <ochosi> that might be a problem in the instructions
[11:48] <elfy> checked they were right thought
[11:48] <elfy> so 
[11:48] <ochosi> cause then still the old xfpm is running
[11:48] <ochosi> when you change the setting
[11:48] <elfy> 1 reinstall packages
[11:48] <ochosi> and it won't exist yet
[11:48] <elfy> 2 - set lls back and forth
[11:48] <elfy> bah 
[11:49] <elfy> killall xfpm
[11:49] <bluesabre> yes, because lls has to toggle the brand new xfpm setting
[11:49] <elfy> then set lls
[11:49] <ochosi> 1) reinstall packages 2) restart 3) toggle lls 4) close lid
[11:49] <elfy> then reboot 
[11:49] <elfy> ochosi: yep
[11:50] <bluesabre> ok, well I think you guys have it from here.  If we get some more confirmation, I'll propose this to be uploaded to utopic/trusty-proposed
[11:51] <bluesabre> gotta go to work now, bbl :)
[11:51] <elfy> cya bluesabre 
[11:52] <elfy> ochosi: anything else needed from 14.04?
[11:53] <ochosi> elfy: not for now, thanks a bunch!
[11:53]  * ochosi updates the instructions on the bugreport..
[11:53] <elfy> ok
[11:54] <hobgoblin> bye then :)
[11:54] <ochosi> phew, so let's hope this (still) works for most ppl so we can finally close that nasty bugreport
[11:54] <ochosi> and move on
[11:58] <elfy> that would be awesome :)
[11:59] <elfy> acck'd the bug report
[12:00] <ochosi> ty
[12:00] <brainwash> and the button/lid actions still work fine?
[12:00] <ochosi> yup, they have separate bool settings that are true by default
[12:01] <brainwash> ok
[12:43] <bluesabre> ochosi: still flawed
[12:43] <bluesabre> lock on suspend *must* be toggled
[12:43] <bluesabre> turn it off, apply, turn it on, apply
[12:43] <bluesabre> or the new xfconf setting will never be applied
[12:44] <ochosi> bluesabre: crap, wanna update that in the bugreport?
[12:44] <bluesabre> gotta run out the door
[12:44] <ochosi> or i guess you want me to do the walk of shame (again)
[12:44] <bluesabre> :)
[12:44] <ochosi> well actually it says it must be toggled
[12:44] <ochosi> you know
[12:44] <bluesabre> 4. Open light-locker-settings and make sure "Lock on suspend" is enabled (if it already is, disable and then re-enable it, then hit "Apply").
[12:44] <bluesabre> ah
[12:44] <bluesabre> my bad
[12:45] <ochosi> ;)
[12:45] <bluesabre> confusing step
[12:45] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[12:45] <bluesabre> but double apply might make a difference
[12:45] <bluesabre> not sure
[12:45] <bluesabre> anyway, bbl
[12:47]  * ochosi shrugs
[12:47] <ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
[13:44] <elfy> ochosi: so what's the final verdict on the mailing list issue now that we're a week later?
[13:44] <ochosi> elfy: stop asking difficult questions!
[13:44] <elfy> ummm
[13:44] <elfy> no :p
[13:45] <ochosi> i guess the logical move is to carry on with the decision, as the vote is still clearly for closing it
[13:45] <ochosi> i'd suggest a trial period i think
[13:45] <ochosi> we close it for a month and see what happens
[13:45] <ochosi> knome: what do you think? ^
[16:04] <knome> heyyy... you're the XPL :P
[16:17] <ochosi> knome: i know, but you proposed the ML change
[16:17] <ochosi> so i mostly wanted your input on it
[16:18] <ochosi> elfy, bluesabre: yay, so far 3 positive feedbacks on the lid bugreport!
[16:20] <knome> since there are $any worries about this, we could also just try to be follow up on each inappropriate thread in the mailing list for a while
[16:20] <knome> and also set $some peoples' moderation flag
[16:29] <ochosi> i'd be fine with that too
[16:29] <ochosi> basically anything that improves the situation
[16:29] <knome> mhm
[16:29] <ochosi> but actually, since we started talking, there hasn't been so much inappropriate stuff
[16:29] <knome> true
[16:29] <ochosi> comes at certain times it seems
[16:29] <knome> there was one that was stuck in the moderation queue
[16:30] <knome> i replied to the sender and dismissed the message for the list
[16:31] <ochosi> great
[16:32] <knome> so what kind of policy would you propose?
[16:32] <knome> one inappropriate mail -> moderation flag?
[16:32] <knome> two mails?
[16:33] <ochosi> two strikes and you're out :Ãp
[16:34] <knome> so after one "strike", should moderators be in touch with the offender privately?
[16:34] <ochosi> you looked at the stats a bit and generally seem to have a better overview, do we have many frequent offenders?
[16:34] <knome> i didn't look at offender count
[16:35] <knome> besides,
[16:35] <knome> those stats weren't necessarily true
[16:35] <ochosi> awesome :p
[16:35] <knome> i mean
[16:35] <knome> they most probably weren't the *whole truth*
[16:35] <ochosi> i generally would prefer if moderators were in touch privately, but then moderators need to coordinate
[16:36] <knome> because obviously, i didn't check if something was *really* inappropriate
[16:36] <ochosi> to know who has been dealt with
[16:36] <knome> i just checked things that came from non-team
[16:37] <knome> yeah, i always cc -owner when i send mails to offenders
[16:37] <ochosi> ok, then that's good
[16:38] <ochosi> let's make it two strikes and then you're flagged
[16:38] <knome> i don't think there is -moderators, but we could just make it a policy to moderators to need that
[16:38] <knome> *to need to do that
[16:42] <knome> hmm, right, -owner also covers moderators
[17:43] <ochosi> knome: i need to run, could you send a summary of that policy we discussed to the ML?
[17:43] <ochosi> and maybe say it's a trial phase of one month, if someone really objects we can always re-open the discussion and vote again
[20:27] <Unit193> Looking at the diff between xubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-core, I'd think we should pull in fonts-droid and fonts-liberation (xfce4-terminal uses one of these). and perhaps software-properties-gtk, tumbler (thunar enhancement), thunar-volman, and maybe some in the "other GUI apps" section?  Any thoughts?
[20:31] <Unit193> Also, since the panel defaults to whisker, might kind of want to add that.  (I personally think it's more of an additional feature, but as it's part of the default look and you lose functionality without it...)
[20:32] <knome> i thought we defaulted to dejavu sansa last cycle
[20:32] <knome> if not, let's do it this cycle
[20:32] <knome> what's using zenity?
[20:35] <Unit193> zenity is easy dialog boxes, no idea what requires it.  rdepends aren't much interesting, and purge would only remove zenity.
[20:35] <knome> i know what it is :)
[20:38] <Unit193> Appears to be nothing exactly pulling it in, but it's not too large anyway.  Thought one of Sean's applications did, but not seeing it in the dep list.
[20:38] <knome> yeah, i think i've had to actually install it before
[20:39] <knome> it's used in the slideshow testing
[20:39] <knome> well, kind of
[20:39] <knome> you can bypass using it if you want to test a specific slideshow
[20:40] <Unit193> Mhmm.
[20:40] <Unit193> Oh, last one I didn't comment on, xfce4-indicator-plugin/indicator-*
[20:40] <knome> i've no idea about that
[20:41] <knome> whisker for -core? i don't know, i'm actually a bit unsure if that should be it
[20:41] <knome> i'd *probably* be in the same lines of "additional feature"
[20:42] <Unit193> Exactly, but the config for the panel has it rather than applicationsmenu.
[20:42] <knome> yeah, but will the core package share the same config?
[20:42] <Unit193> Yes.
[20:46] <Unit193> Mind if I paste the links somewhere not in this channel?
[20:46] <knome> well you can dump then in a pad, then paste
[20:50] <Unit193> https://pad.riseup.net/p/HbKQDgePoHBF Something like that.
[21:03] <Unit193> Checking it out now.
[21:19] <Unit193> knome: Still with me, kermit?
[21:20] <knome> yes darling
[21:23] <Unit193> Can we postpone until 15.04? :D
[21:24] <knome> i guess
[21:24] <Unit193> Think Sean fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1310304
[21:25] <Unit193> Seems we have some interest in the idea, but not much feedback from -devel.
[21:25] <Unit193> (ML)
[21:25] <elfy> I'll not snigger ... 
[21:25] <Unit193> elfy: Yes, yes, same problem as you, only less sent. :P
[21:26] <knome> Unit193, well i think we need to get similar process to the mir testing - have a real iso to boot
[21:26] <elfy> might be worth bumping it on the m/l too 
[21:27] <Unit193> knome: Like http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-core-14.04-i386.iso or http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-core-14.10-i386.iso ?
[21:28] <knome> Unit193, yeah, like that... and putting it on the mailing list
[21:28] <Unit193> Well thought the point was to install it, since it's a meta.
[21:33] <knome> yeah.... but is it really installable as it would install with a real system?
[21:34] <knome> or do we still have the "it is different than from archive" -problem?
[21:34] <knome> if yes, can we solve that?
[21:34] <knome> if there is no other way than put the metapackage in the archive, maybe we should do that ASAP in the beginning of a cycle
[21:34] <knome> probably 15.04 in that case
[21:35] <Unit193> Dang, those are big icons.  Yeah, still have the tasksel test problem.  Right now I'm still doing the install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core.  In theory, you could perhaps get the same effect if you install everything in that list.
[21:36] <knome> what about in practice?
[21:36] <knome> :P
[21:36] <Unit193> I haven't done it.
[21:37] <knome> be initiative then ;)
[21:38] <Unit193> Not quite sure how recommends works with that, but yeah, making the script now.
[21:43] <Unit193> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ for anyone else interested.
[21:43] <elfy> thanks Unit193 
[21:44] <Unit193> Hm/
[21:47] <Unit193> If this is actually a target for 14.10, then it should likely go on some blueprint/trello, right?
[21:48] <elfy> new features perhaps 
[21:49] <Unit193> FWIW, I'm using the /xubuntu-core.sh script to test.
[21:53] <brainwash> where can I see the list of packages installed by -core?
[21:55] <Unit193> brainwash: https://pad.riseup.net/p/HbKQDgePoHBF - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core.html - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core-d.html
[21:56] <elfy> night all 
[21:56] <Unit193> brainwash: Also, not in -offtopic?  https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin/commit/bbff6e73627ba1ecc62860cd7b6d8310b6fe042a#diff-9c1775b6a7de1ca31a63ddb218fe9473R42 might be interesting?
[21:56] <Unit193> elfy: Good night.
[21:56] <brainwash> i don't care about offtopic
[21:56] <brainwash> let me check the links
[22:00] <brainwash> looks solid
[22:00] <brainwash> what's the deal with gucharmap?
[22:00] <Unit193> Doing a test from the mini, should simulate a tasksel install with pastebinit output.
[22:02] <Unit193> Unicode character map, depends on your opinion if it's something "everyone" should have or needs.
[22:05] <brainwash> not essential
[22:06] <Unit193> Sounds good to me, thanks.
[22:08] <brainwash> could light-locker be replaced with something more simple?
[22:10] <brainwash> mmh, the design/appearance should stay the same I guess
[22:10] <Unit193> That was my question, something like slock? :P
[22:10] <knome> the core package should still deliver the xubuntu experience, not just a lighterweight ubuntu+xfce variant
[22:10] <brainwash> thought so
[22:10] <Unit193> Hence xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork.
[22:12] <brainwash> is -core targeting advanced users?
[22:12] <knome> one could argue light-locker contributes much to the "xubuntu experience"
[22:12] <Unit193> brainwash: To some extent, I believe it is.
[22:14] <Unit193> Remember, we do have http://docs.xubuntu.net/1404/appendix-packages.html for other hints in case core doesn't ship them.
[22:15] <brainwash> mmh, question mark behind thunar-volman?
[22:16] <brainwash> automounting devices is rather important, or?
[22:18] <Unit193> Not sure why that was downgraded to recommends (hence, missing.)  Would there be a reason to do so?
[22:18] <brainwash> it's still optional
[22:19] <brainwash> you can mount stuff via terminal too :)
[22:20] <Unit193> Would still think that's a bit important for Xubuntu though.
[22:20] <brainwash> xubuntu installs recommended packages by default anyway
[22:22] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/47801/ that's what happened last time with recommends turned on.
[22:25] <brainwash> oh :D
[22:26] <Unit193> Trying it again with https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu-core.sh to simulate a tasksel install.
[22:26] <brainwash> mmh, no gui text editor?
[22:29] <Unit193> Not for that script, nope.
[22:30] <brainwash> maybe I should stop thinking about -core.. don't wanna go insane :D
[22:31] <brainwash> but good job so far Unit193 
[22:31] <Unit193> Uh oh.  Well I'm thankful for the help, brainwash!
[22:35] <Unit193> brainwash: Oh, so does that commit I linked to do what I think it does?
[22:37] <brainwash> don't know
[22:38] <brainwash> what do you expect?
[23:45] <Unit193> knome: Both actually look fairly sane: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81244/ http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81243/
[23:46] <ochosi> evening everyone
[23:46] <Unit193> Some differences, one you get pulseaudio the other you don't.
[23:50] <Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
[23:51] <Unit193> http://www.diffchecker.com/7ssjpu1h There you go.
[23:52] <ochosi> howdy Unit193 
[23:52] <ochosi> still reading backlog etc
[23:53] <ochosi> ah right, so xubuntu-core it is
[23:53] <ochosi> i think we should give it a try this cycle
[23:53] <ochosi> fine, fine, the last one was an LTS, but now we can experiment a bit
[23:53] <ochosi> if it goes wrong, we learn and do a better -core in 15.04
[23:53] <ochosi> so i suggest you add it to the -features blueprint, Unit193, and assign it to yourself
[23:54] <ochosi> then send an email to the ML about it and we can organize some testing with elf
[23:54] <Unit193> So for whoever cares: tasksel looks good, --no-install-recommends looks good, but do not just apt install xubuntu-core: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81249/
[23:54] <Unit193> ochosi: Already did the second bit last cycle, is there anything you'd like to change?
[23:55] <ochosi> i think micahg raised some concerns (that i don't recall now) and you changed some stuff (unless i misunderstood the backlog), so a new mail to the ML seems in order
[23:55] <ochosi> also, since it's a new cycle and we didnt get so much testing for it last cycle, we should give it a more serious try onw
[23:56] <ochosi> now
[23:56] <ochosi> there were just too many new features last cycle to take care of this too imo
[23:56] <Unit193> michag didn't like that --no-install-recommends was recommended/needed, which in theory if you use tasksel it isn't now.
[23:59] <ochosi> actually a few cycles ago, we didn't recommend/set the recommends...
[23:59] <ochosi> so i personally don't feel about it as strongly as he does
[23:59] <ochosi> i also agree that the -core thing is something for advanced users rather than for the average joe
[23:59] <ochosi> and we can always put that in a disclaimer