[04:53] <OvenWerks> hmmm The LXDE blog is full of LXQt stuff. Is this different or the new lxde?
[06:31] <DalekSec> LXDE is becomming LXQT, changing from GTK2 to Qt.
[14:51] <holstein> a merger, AFAIK.. 
[14:51] <holstein> also, the razorQT de folk
[14:55] <holstein> OvenWerks: i thought this was informative.. http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/57287/developers-get-qt-lup-40/
[14:55] <OvenWerks> holstein, zequence: I only mention it becasue it will affect us if we use lxde on any of our projects
[14:56] <OvenWerks> holstein: I understand the move to QT, if GCDMaster was writen in qt it would still build word for us.
[14:57] <OvenWerks> even if it was qt2 and we were using qt5
[14:58] <holstein> OvenWerks: its interesting to see where it all goes
[15:10] <OvenWerks> zequence: looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupLocalIsoBuildServer
[15:10] <OvenWerks> zequence: in particular the line export PROJECT=ubuntustudio-dvd SUITE=raring ARCH=amd64
[15:10] <OvenWerks> That line seems to be the line that tells which seed file to look at
[15:14] <OvenWerks> is there a way to spec a local seed branch.
[17:30] <cub> hi DalekSec, I tried the xubuntu mini iso 14.04, but it starts in live mode no matter what I choose during boot
[17:31] <cub> and once booted I can't find how to install
[17:31] <cub> Any ideas?
[17:31] <DalekSec> Right, it doesn't have Ubiquity, not made to be an installer CD just a trial run.  Do you need it?  I take it you don't know how to install without an installer?
[17:32] <cub> ahaa
[17:32] <cub> no I don't know how to install then, but I could learn
[17:33] <cub> got to prepare dinner for the family though .. bbl
[17:34] <DalekSec> So basically it goes like this, you partition the disk however you want it, use unsquashfs to unsquash the filesystem onto the new partition, remove casper, install grub to the MBR, add a user, and setup fstab.
[17:34] <DalekSec> K, coolio.  (I could just plop ubiquity in pretty easily too.)
[19:08] <zequence> OvenWerks: I don't remember much of the local build server stuff, so anything that is on that page is what I can offer right now
[19:10] <zequence> On the new ISO - I think we might need to reconsider how that should be done. From what I see there is no way to simply use a meta for a desktop - unless perhaps using lxde instead of lubuntu, since lubuntu-core is too basic for our useage
[19:10] <zequence> So, we might end up constructing our own custom DE. And, in that case, we might as well go with either LXDE of XFCE as both are pretty light in that respect
[19:10] <zequence> I'm sure other DEs could be made pretty minimal too
[19:11] <zequence> Not sure how we can use existing flavor setups the best way. It seems there is a slight problem with the fact that you will end up with a lot of sessions
[19:13] <zequence> I think in some way it would be most true for our cause to base on other flavors completely, and add our stuff on top
[19:13] <zequence> However, if we are to have ONE custom DE, it should really fill a purpose - offer something that the other setups don't
[19:13] <zequence> Like, super great preformance and no annoyance 
[19:14] <zequence> I believe that would be very appreciated for serious audio production, but also for other multimedia, like video
[19:15] <zequence> Both LXDE and XFCE are good candidates for that
[19:15] <elfy> zequence: does this list look about right? http://pastebin.com/nwDfV2JU
[19:16] <zequence> elfy: Sure
[19:16] <zequence> elfy: jackd is a meta for both jackd1 and jackd2 though
[19:16] <zequence> jackd2 is default
[19:16] <zequence> It's what we ship
[19:16] <elfy> ok
[19:16] <zequence> But, jackd1 is interesting too
[19:18] <DalekSec> Technically you can have yout seed dep on the xubuntu or lubuntu seeds, but if I understand correctly that's not what you'd be looking for.
[19:18] <elfy> I'll get some sort of cross reference going for it all
[19:19] <zequence> DalekSec: That is how I would like to offer existing flavors  in the future. Depending on the desktop metas for other flavors, and adding our stuff on top
[19:20] <zequence> DalekSec: Additionally, possibly keeping our own DE which would be a bit more minimal - if there is a significant upside doing thing
[19:20] <zequence> doing that (not thing)
[19:21] <zequence> elfy: It's a great start anyway
[19:22] <elfy> it'll be a better start when I've got existing testcase bugs against them :p
[19:25] <zequence> DalekSec: One alternative is to simply copy everything in an existing flavor and remove artwork and default settings packages, replacing those with our own
[19:26] <DalekSec> Mhmm, there's that too.
[19:26] <DalekSec> More to maintain.
[19:27] <zequence> Not so much brainwork though. 
[19:27] <zequence> Just a matter of syncing changes, and most importantly before alphas and betas and final releases
[19:29] <zequence>  The most extreme case would be to offer an existing flavor as is, but with our menu, and additional optional packages
[19:29] <zequence> ..without our artwork even
[19:30] <zequence> But, only for installtion options that require internet
[19:30] <zequence> Not what we have on our ISO, or there is no point with having an ISO
[19:31] <zequence> In the long run, I would like us to be better integrated with all of Ubuntu, so that you can add our stuff easily from any flavor
[19:31] <zequence> Mostly, that is about making sure realtime privilege works on any flavor and that one does not need to know what a kernel is in order to get low latency
[19:32] <zequence> So, something you can pick from a Software Center, or any other package installing tool
[19:33] <zequence> Still, there is a purpose for a hard core DE setup for a lot of workflows
[19:34] <zequence> I'm considering many options right now. not sure at all what is absolutely the best. Hope we can find out during this cycle, or at least during the next two years before the next LTS
[20:43] <OvenWerks> elfy your list looks fine, but we should probably prioritize it. For example, it is probably best if ardour works even if hexter doesn't (hm hexter is not in your list).
[20:44] <elfy> OvenWerks: yea - my immediate plan is to get a list - there are already bugs tagged studio in testcase
[20:44] <OvenWerks> Also I think it would be great if we could find out good testing for the non-audio applications as a priority just because the the audio stuff tends to get tested more thoughly because we are audio folk first.
[20:45] <elfy> once I've done that basic list - I'll get it on a wiki somewhere - then people can weight things however
[20:45] <OvenWerks> good
[20:45] <elfy> I'm just trying to help get a framework together and moving on writing things
[20:48] <elfy> hope to get that bit done in the next day or so - then 'you' can look at it 
[20:49] <OvenWerks> zequence: I am thinking the configure step in the live iso build is the one I should look through.
[20:49] <elfy> I'll also send a mail to the list - I'd guess there are people out there that would like to help studio - but don't code etc, this would be a way to help - it's exactly how I got involved with Xubuntu
[20:49] <OvenWerks> elfy: Ya, there are also people who read mail but don't join here
[20:50] <OvenWerks> Also people who don't leave irc running all the time.
[20:50] <elfy> yep
[20:52] <OvenWerks> zequence: It would not be hard to set up a "session manager" Bad name as it is already used :)  that manages what sessions are available as part of either/or -install or -controls
[20:54] <OvenWerks> I think the user would need to know that in any case changes made to the DE when logged in to KDE (as an example) would effect the ubuntustudio session if it is based on KDE on that machine.
[20:55] <OvenWerks> Just as with xfce and studio now. (I see my kudge to removed the xfce session was removed :)
[20:56] <OvenWerks> The other possiblilty is to just work with the session that is already there and make our session a link to the standard one.
[20:57] <OvenWerks> zequence: perhaps the user should be offered the choice of setting up a new user just for media production so their current session can remain untouched.
[21:02] <OvenWerks> zequence: now that I have a new up to date machine, I have yet to try gnome3/unity and set them up for audio work. I have been so disappointed in the past as to have little interest.
[21:06] <OvenWerks> zequence: (just spraying my thoughts out as they come) On our DE-only ISO, I would prefer to have the same DE as the Full ISO if we can get xfce to work lite. I notice the lubuntu-minimal install cuts out a lot of applications that are normally considered part of lubuntu (even lxterm) and the same could be done with xfce.
[21:06] <OvenWerks> This would save the confusion of the user thinking they would get a different DE just by installing from a different ISO :)
[21:08] <OvenWerks> Though in retrospect they would be getting a different DE than the live DE-only ISO anyway unless we left an option on the install to have a stripped DE installed.
[22:56] <OvenWerks> zequence: It may be worth while to have an option for a stripped DE. Most people who would do so probably want to use their favourite DE and so would do it them selves from scratch (including choosing their own apps) so we are not using them as a focus. However, there may be a group of people who like the idea of a minimal DE but are not sure how to do it.
[23:18] <OvenWerks> zequence: I am slowly working my way through the build of an ISO image.
[23:22] <OvenWerks> The first problem I have is that I end up with a bunch of files named livecd..* but no ISO image. It appears this is a result of lb-config being called with --binary none rather than ISO. I am having to see where that is set up. None of the pages in the resources seem to give a clue about this.
[23:22] <OvenWerks> (some other options are ext2, ext3, etc.)
[23:28] <OvenWerks> The seed source is hard coded in one of the scripts... even down to which seed file to use for which distro. As this seems to be the package that is used to spin all our ISOs (our being Ubuntu's) I am pretty sure we will have to have cooperation from the right people to set up a new spin. So it may be worth writing out a document about the reasons and use cases (the right word escapes me just now) to justify it's existance.
[23:29] <OvenWerks> Using the words "we have been asked if" and "we have a use for" would be a part of that, I would guess.
[23:32] <OvenWerks> Interesting, the ISO build will not allow more than one kernel :)