[00:03] There you go, you have mail. [00:04] ty :) [00:06] sergio-br2: hey, i think we should pull in the new system-software-update and the new ubiquity icon [00:06] sergio-br2: obviously there are still a few sizes missing for either... [00:20] Unit193: it sounds ridiculous, but it could be that we also need to add shimmer-themes [00:20] or we need to fix something in xubuntu-default-settings [00:21] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1322305 [00:21] Launchpad bug 1322305 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfc4-settings needs shimmer-themes as a dependency" [Undecided,New] [00:21] i would actually prefer to fix that somehow other than adding shimmer-themes as a depends [00:22] ochosi: https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core-d.html#_other xubuntu-artwork deps on shimmer-themes, I made sure they were installed. [00:22] I also quite agree that xfce4-session shouldn't have that as a dep. [00:25] -session? you mean -settings? [00:25] either way, yeah, -artwork should depend on it [00:25] and we should probably look into the xfce session this cycle [00:25] i.e. whether it really makes sense to distinguish between the xubuntu and the xfce session [00:25] wanna look at that too, Unit193 ^ ? [00:26] since you're already dealing with a similar problem-set with -core [00:27] ochosi: Unless you want to lose the Xubuntu panel, power manager settings, themes, and stuff, you want to keep the Xubuntu session. [00:29] no, i mean in the standard iso we have a xubuntu and an xfce session [00:29] i wonder whether the xfce session really makes sense [00:30] we haven't really taken very good care of it during the last cycles, frankly, i've rarely started one and when i did, it always felt somewhat "broken" [00:31] The xfce session comes from upstream. [00:32] xfce4-session: /usr/share/xsessions/xfce.desktop [00:33] humm, right :/ [00:33] still, that doesn't necessarily mean we can't or should't get rid of it [00:38] Hmm. So 'tasksel' method installs indicator-application but not xfce4-indicator-plugin, thus no nm-applet. [00:50] but nm-applet also has a fallback trayicon, no? [00:50] so why would we need indicators in -core? [00:51] It seems it 'detects' indicator-application.. [00:51] meh [00:51] so that pulls in the whole indicator stack i presume? [00:51] The ISO/--no-install-recommends is fine, so that method you still won't get indicators, but tasksel has the problem so I've got it so tasksel will also pull in the plugin, see? [00:52] Meh, it's not so bad. [00:52] 3 packages* [00:57] how is the overall comparison of -desktop vs. -core atm in terms of size and packages? [01:02] tasksel'd core is 2.3G all installed. Seed is not bad in terms of diff (seen the link?) Booted up my utopic Xubuntu, and it's 3.2G but I've removed abiword, gnumeric, gmusicbrowser, and others so isn't a good thing to compare to. [01:11] i think it'd be nice to have a comparison in terms of iso-size, installed size and ram-usage [01:13] hm, indicator-power can't go? [01:13] or is it just because our default settings hide the trayicon that that's still there? [01:13] (fwiw, i hope we can get rid of indicator-power with the next xfpm release...) [01:14] started to look at the diff now, makes sense to me [01:14] Erm, not trying to turn that into an indicator are you? :/ [01:14] And yeah, I can drop that one too. [01:14] no, xfpm will have a panel-plugin instead of a trayicon [01:15] Yey! \o/ (I like the mouseover, indicators don't get that.) [01:15] imo indicator-messages should also go [01:15] what would it be used by? [01:15] Done and done. [01:15] if pidgin and thunderbird arent [01:16] datetime-plugin? [01:16] that's kinda usesless too, as the panel's clock plugin does all we want/need now [01:16] we don't even use it in our default panel layout anymore [01:17] So basically how it works, we get two for the price of one. We get a core barebones with --no-install-recommends, and we get a minimal one with tasksel. I keep forgetting that the clock one is built in, click for calendar right? [01:17] yup, both open a calendar on left-click [01:17] So, done. [01:18] ah, so -core barebones is everything in the list (including the ones in brackets), tasksel is without the ones in brackets? [01:19] Reverse that. [01:19] oh , right, whoopsie :) [01:19] gucharmap? [01:20] i also wonder if we need appfinder when we have whiskermenu in -core... [01:20] Thought I'd just dropped that one.. [01:20] appfinder is also alt+f2, soo... [01:20] maybe you did, i'm looking here: https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core.html [01:20] yeah, but whisker also executes commands [01:20] That's the right link. [01:20] ok [01:21] just saying, it's not a huge problem if we install appfinder too [01:21] it's tiny [01:21] libasound2-plugins does what? [01:22] I'm not really sure, so I left it. [01:22] i see [01:22] frankly, if we're not shipping indicator-sound, we should install xfce4-mixer [01:22] since we're not using pulseaudio, it should work fine, but it might pull some gstreamer stuff... [01:23] barebones doesn't, minimal gets pulseaudio. [01:23] humm [01:23] FWIW, volumeicon is great for alsa. :P [01:24] yeah, but if minimal has pulse, we need *some* mixer for it [01:24] i'd really love to replace pavucontrol somehow [01:24] but i fear we'll have to write the replacement ourselves.. [01:24] and i think it's a rather complicated thing to do [01:25] (the panel plugin for pulseaudio is already kinda written, so maybe we can at some point get rid of that indicator too) [01:25] So for minimal I can add pavucontrol, or even indicator-sound+pavu [01:25] why screenshooter? [01:25] "Some screenshot application is handy" --I don't know. :P [01:26] without screenshooter, what happens when you hit the PrintScreen button? [01:26] Remember, that only gets into minimal. [01:26] right, true [01:26] But can remove it too, no big deal. [01:27] xfce4-places-plugin can go right? [01:27] nah, it's kinda fine i guess [01:27] yeah, we don't use that by defualt [01:27] and imo it's an additional feature [01:27] Yeah, it's weird and unused IMO. :P [01:28] ok, i think libasound-plugins is pulled because it depends on libasound [01:28] which is basically alsa support [01:28] (as far as i understand) [01:29] So you end up with pavucontrol in minimal? Without indicator? [01:30] kinda okayish, although the indicator doesn't hurt if we have indicator-application anyway [01:31] humm, can we get rid of plymouth for !minimal? [01:31] You can't get rid of plymouth in Ubuntu. [01:32] righty [01:32] looks good to me then [01:32] thanks for this! [01:32] gotta get some sleep now [01:34] ochosi: Thanks a ton for the review! Everything's been refreshed now. [01:34] awesome [01:34] looking forward to this in .10 [01:34] this should be our answer to all the "install libreoffice" requests from then on :p [01:38] Well huh, less depends on plymouth than it used to, but you still lose some core things. :P [03:26] Erm, zenity is worse than I thought. (Also, core and minimal ISOs up.) [09:53] elfy: just read the forums thread about pkexec, maybe we could provide 1 policy for a general wrapper which could be used like gksudo [09:54] for 14.10 [09:55] if this idea does not cause any negative side effects [10:03] not being able to distinguish what needs the permission? [10:04] also, wouldn't it pretty much defeat the purpose? [10:07] which purpose? [10:07] to see in the password window which app really needs the permissions? [10:12] brainwash: I've been mulling that business over [10:15] closest I've got is to doing one for those that we decide - mousepad/thunar - things that a *normalish* user might find they need [10:16] or - seed gksu :) === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash [15:26] pleia2: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-trusty.html Here, as requested. [15:36] your review? [15:37] no. dedoimedo's [15:37] ok [15:39] a while back she requested news stuff to be mentioned here, as she will read the backlogs here :) [15:40] * drc is assuming that she has not been "shot while trying to escape in the latest coup" :) [15:54] Sorry...how come everything sounds funnier in your head than it does coming out of your mouth (or fingers)? [15:55] I meant to say "assuming she still has the responsibility for such things." [16:29] elfy: Yes, I like that idea. Lets seed gksu. [17:45] * pleia2 adds dedoimedo link to press page and resumes day off [18:41] ty pleia2 - I guess I could have done that - I forget I've the key too [18:53] ali1234: Hello. Have you noticed it xfwm git master whenever you alt+tab you get 'xfwm4-Message: (nil)' in the terminal output (or .cache/upstart/startxfce4.log)? [18:54] no i haven't noticed that [18:54] i do not use alt-tab [18:57] bluesabre: so far no negative reports on the xfpm/lls patch. i suggest you go ahead and push that towards utopic so we can SRU it back to trusty [18:58] yeah, I'll be sure to do that today [18:58] got a few things going on, looking at getting a new car/place to live [18:58] :) [18:59] also, glade-gtk2 is oficially unusable in 14.04 [18:59] *as far as I am concerned [19:01] oh wow [19:01] ali1234: OK, only asked since you've done the most with xfwm so know it better. Thanks. [19:01] yeah, same here, glade-gtk2 is totally messed up [19:02] bluesabre: i'll try to work on the devices tab a bit tonight so i can hopefully get you that screenshot i promised yesterday [19:02] oh good, wasn't going to say anything about that [19:02] :D [19:02] heh [19:02] well the devices tab still needs tweaks tweaks tweaks [19:02] mostly packing though [19:03] s/tweak/hack/g [19:03] bluesabre ochosi bug 1322384 [19:03] bug 1322384 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole Media Player fails to play audio CD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322384 [19:03] * bluesabre hides [19:03] fwiw, i think all patches we're carrying in xubuntu are in xfpm master now [19:03] linked it [19:03] elfy, I'll take a look at it [19:03] elfy: i guess bluesabre screwed that up when he fixed the dvd support ;) [19:03] gotta find an audio cd [19:03] or burn one [19:03] lol [19:03] hehe [19:05] bluesabre: i don't remember right now, did we wanna work on something specific this weekend? [19:05] ochosi: That's great, does that bother the BSD folks? :P [19:05] Unit193: no, as eric made suspend without systemd work again [19:05] Nice. [19:06] ochosi: nothing specific, got some hacking going on and need to get releases to utopic/trusty [19:06] so the next xfpm release will be quite a treat i think [19:06] bluesabre: yeah, and we need to get you upload rights... [19:06] yeah, need to get to that [19:06] and need to apply for tech lead [19:06] yup, not so many days left ;) [19:07] even though there hasnt exactly been a flood of applicants :p [19:07] surprisingly [19:07] :D [19:07] hehe [19:08] did mine get lost? [19:08] :p [19:08] huhu [19:08] elfy: re-send please ;) [19:08] micahg has been offline entirely a week, should we be worried? [19:08] only had one stamp ochosi [19:08] elfy: I got it for you, let me send it in. ;) [19:09] Unit193: he told me he got promoted @work, so i guess he'll be busier than before [19:09] also, thanks for the monday mtg ochosi, I should be able to make it (holiday in the states) [19:09] Yey! And boo. [19:10] I read that in channel somewhere I'm sure [19:10] bluesabre: cool [19:10] I think I did too, elfy. [19:10] i guess cycling meeting-times isn't such a bad thing then [19:11] lol [19:12] bluesabre: we still have a few greeter branches to review btw [19:13] yeah, I know [19:13] oh, and my parole branch :p [19:29] hey elfy [19:29] can you add my to the trello board? [19:29] "seandavis5" [19:30] bluesabre: done :) [19:30] thanks! [19:30] welcome ;) [19:32] ochosi, elfy, are we interested in tracking development on there as well? Should it have a label, or go with community/new features? [19:33] ran out of labels - and given that there appeared to be an enormous interest I didn't worry too much :) [19:34] if you think that it'll help to track development I'm all for it [19:34] yay, now I'm @bluesabre on there [19:34] elfy: Anything you'd like me to put on there or update? [19:34] ochosi is an admin on there - I guess that any leads can be too [19:34] then they can add boards - not sure a 'user' can do that [19:35] Unit193: just use common sense - if you think it should be there - put it on - certainly for any QA stuff go ahead [19:35] bluesabre: try and add a board [19:36] list [19:36] elfy, added a "Dev 14.04" list [19:37] so we keep an overview per team? [19:37] and the team updates the blueprints so the XPL and everyone else have the grand total overview? [19:38] elfy: OK, I didn't think I had anything, but trying to do the "Annoy elfy as little as possible." task. [19:39] ochosi: that's was how I'd initially set it up [19:39] I think this will work well [19:40] ochosi: but then you wanted my QA stuff there - and I'm greedy and have a bunch [19:40] bluesabre: well I did too :) [19:40] elfy: yeah, then let's go back to that, a huge overview board doesn't make any sense [19:40] unless you can conditionally show/hide stuff [19:40] you can filter labels [19:41] right [19:42] ochosi: a general board for everything is how kubuntu do it [19:42] https://trello.com/b/fNxJO1Ac/14-10 [19:43] oh, they also use trello? [19:43] yea - that information is on our spec ;) [19:43] nice to see the XPL read that lol [19:43] :) [19:44] personally I think if we were all to have to do/doing and done - it'll be a nightmare [19:44] then let's stick with per-team management [19:44] i'm fine with that, just means more power/trust to the leadas [19:44] leads [19:45] if we are going to use it - we need to think about labels now [19:45] then have one to do list, 1 doing, 1 done [19:45] then the 'team' can filter the label to see there stuff or any other lists they want to see [19:46] if you add dates to things - you can toggle the calendar sheet [19:46] elfy: well you're the trello expert, i've never used it for anything serious... what would you wanna do? [19:47] well - knowing that at least one other person/team is interested in using it I can invest a bit more time in it [19:48] I try, and I'm trying to look at it more than last time. [19:48] I know that Unit193 :) [19:49] well for artwork it doesnt make too much sense as i'm more or less a one-man show [19:49] it's not quite what I mean though :) [19:49] and sergio-br2 and me are mostly using github to track issues/bugs in the icon-theme [19:49] and gtk themes are also in port/bugfix mode [19:49] not much else to do there [19:49] ochosi: yea I agree - but as XPL you'd be able to catch more detail perhaps there than on blueprints [19:50] yeah, but as i'm also the artwork lead... [19:50] i'm just sayin, i see the value where we're really working collaboratively [19:50] so for dev/features i think it can be quite good [19:51] is there value in people knowing what QA plans are? [19:52] well i'm not saying i want to *hide* my artwork workitems... :) [19:52] ochosi: abortx in #xubuntu has something about indicator-plugin. [19:52] do we need a label for every team - or could art/web have one to share - as there's not going to be much in it? [19:52] elfy: yeah, maybe they could [19:53] Unit193: he just joined, you know more than i, i presume? [19:53] dev could drop some items into -qa [19:53] "Hi, I use Xubuntu 14.04 fresh install. Indicator Plugin keeps crashing. It seems to happen because of the application menus (?) Any ideas?" [19:53] There you go. [19:54] ochosi: Thought you were looking to fix that? [19:54] ochosi: we have 7 blueprints - which more or less = teams - we have 6 labels we can use [19:55] Unit193: nah, why did you think that? :) andrzejr was just asking about it, but then there seem to be some patches necessary and ... tedium [19:55] I'm finally able to get interested in 14.10 since we've started fixing the critical 14.04 bugs [19:55] +1 [19:56] ochosi: tomorrow I will move the QA stuff into the general to do/doing/done lists after I've labelled them - have a look after that and at filtering [19:56] elfy: sounds good to me! [19:56] can we also link to the filtered trello page? [19:56] or will links always show everything [19:57] the link is the board [19:57] I might want to see QA - you might want to see something else - so you'd filter that [19:57] ok, so no way of bookmarking filters/views [19:57] not that I know of [19:58] ok [19:58] bluesabre: so perhaps don't do too much in your lists till we've come to some sort of plan [19:59] trello has an api, we might be able to bend it to our will https://trello.com/docs/ [19:59] meh, we can always copypaste stuff [19:59] that'd be awesome [19:59] hooking it up to launchpad [19:59] but I'll investigate that myself when I have time [19:59] or if anybody else is interested ;) [19:59] if we did that I would guess 6 boards - 14.04.1 todo/doing/done and the same for 14.10 [19:59] maybe knome, pleia2 or someone else from the web side of the force [20:00] obviously uses a cookie - if I go and come back it's filtered to how I left it [20:00] i suggest that bluesabre still drops in all his stuff for dev, we can always juggle stuff around and it's not sooo much time that's lost with that [20:01] elfy: so we send ppl cookies instead of hyperlinks, problem solved! [20:01] +1 [20:01] send me two cookies [20:01] also, trello irc bot https://github.com/oisin/trellobo [20:01] so - new features and dev share a label? [20:02] bluesabre ochosi ^^ [20:02] do we need a community label? [20:02] +1 [20:02] +1 [20:02] roadmap? [20:02] no idea what goes in the community blueprint, aren't *we* the community? ---p [20:02] community = social media? [20:02] :) [20:02] or [20:02] I'd call that web [20:03] mm [20:04] bluesabre: I built this up against blueprints - so community was the increase devs type stuff last time [20:05] ah [20:05] I'd say that QA/Doc/Dev& New Features will be the most full [20:05] that makes sense [20:05] art/website share one [20:06] there is one for roadmap - does that really need one - that's an overacrhing thing - trello would be more detail, so perhaps roadmap can just stay as blueprint only [20:06] yeah, roadmap and community I think would be fine as just blueprints [20:06] not much active tracking needed there [20:06] so we can split dev and new features [20:07] if that is of use to us [20:07] oh [20:07] so if we kept the read for "DON'T LOSE TRACK HERE" type thing for everyone [20:07] i gotta run off for 1hr or so, i'll be back then though [20:08] so I could use green for qa - and green and red for urgent QA [20:08] dev could use blue and blue/red [20:08] I'll fiddle [20:08] :) [20:08] your patience is unmatched [20:09] bluesabre: would it better to have dev and new feature seperate? [20:09] I think so, they're related but not quite the same [20:10] bluesabre: you still on there atm? [20:10] yes [20:11] if you are add a random card to one of the dev boards - then you can add a label - the list will tell you which to use [20:12] cool, looks good [20:12] ok - so now in the sidebar - filter cards - just choose 'your' colour [20:13] then you'll just see those [20:13] if it helps to see what dates QA have include green [20:13] then if everyone wanted to see 'urgent' - filter red :) [20:14] excellent [20:14] once things are set up - you can click the calendar at the top and everything is there [20:14] :) [20:15] what *I'm* wanting to do is try and make it as easy and logical now - so I don't end up fiddling later on lol [20:15] yeah, just let me know if I need to switch gears with the dev-related stuff [20:15] bluesabre: Sadly I found no terminal client. [20:16] bluesabre: now for SRU stuff - would that be date sensitive? eg - got to be done by such a day? [20:16] Unit193: for trello? :) [20:16] you can put those in - they have to have dates to show on calendar [20:16] elfy: perhaps by 14.04.1 [20:17] so if all my stuff that is date sensitive is there - you could filter and see exactly when I'm doing something - then you know *when* you can easily fit something in :) [20:17] heh [20:18] does 14.04.1 have any freeze dates, or is that something that will come up closer to release? [20:18] bluesabre: I would imagine so - but the schedule is STILL draft and 14.04.1 isn't even on it :( [20:20] I set the date for two weekends pre-.1 [20:20] so that should be [20:20] particularly since I should have it done this weekend [20:20] or at least moving forward [20:20] bluesabre: now look ath the calendar for July and you can see that there's call for package testing the week prior - so you know I'm not planning anything for just prior to that [20:22] cool [20:22] yeah, this should help with coordinating team efforts [20:22] is that making sense? [20:22] yeah [20:23] cool - I'll do some work on that later tonight - so the dev stuff will end up moving into general boards - make sure they've got labels :) [20:23] done [20:23] thanks elfy! [20:23] I'll do 3 for 14.04.1, 3 for 14.10 [20:24] and leave the notes thing [20:26] good deal [20:54] bluesabre: done playing now :) [21:02] back [21:03] hi [21:03] i see there are some updates in trello [21:04] ochosi: yep [21:04] I think that this will be the best way for us [21:04] cool [21:04] 3 boards for 14.04.1 and for 14.10 [21:04] if we keep to our label colour - we can filter 'our's stuff [21:05] currently i only see 1 board [21:05] if we use red for urgent/important etc then everyone can filter that with 'their' colour [21:05] lists I meant [21:05] ah right [21:05] sorry :) [21:05] don't mess with the terminology!! :) [21:05] heh [21:06] and then finally - if we date stuff that needs a date - everyone can see that on the calendar [21:06] so [21:06] what calendar? [21:06] trello or google? [21:06] trello [21:06] humm, >1 calendar... [21:07] well if someone can sync the 2 then \o/ [21:07] heh [21:07] where was I ... [21:08] so - if I use green and red (for urgent) and date where needed I can filter green and red and see my stuff [21:09] if you use the purple and red - I would not see the basic stuff - but anything that was red I would see as well [21:09] yup [21:09] does that make sense ? [21:09] sure [21:09] so urgent stuff cannot be filtered by tetam [21:09] team [21:09] unless you can filter multiple colors [21:09] yea [21:09] with AND not OR [21:10] sorry meant to add that [21:10] so I could filter QA and say dev and know what was going on with those two [21:10] which is actually what I've done :) [21:11] so - now it's up to people to start using it - then we can make an informed decision on it's usefulness to us as a team [21:13] I hope that it does work - if it makes life easier for the whole of us [21:13] I expect that slickymaster will make a lot of use of it - he did last cycle [21:21] elfy: well i'd say let's try it and if it doesn't work we can always go back/forth during the cycle [21:21] yep [21:21] i'm not too concerned as long as the big picture in the blueprints still works [21:21] yea [21:21] I agree [21:22] that's just going to be down to people doing it [21:23] once I started using it last cycle I found it a lot easier to keep on top of things that needed to be done by a certain date [21:24]