[00:21] <OvenWerks> ochosi, brainwash: With regard to the two sessions xubuntu/xfce, I personally think this is a DE package problem with all the DEs. The DE meta should include a -settings package that a flavour could ommit. A flavour would supply it's own -settings package. I do not know which xfce package installs the xfce.desktop file for the session, but if it is a lite enough package it could be replaced with the xubuntu-settings package.
[00:22] <OvenWerks> maybe that dumb.. feel free to tell me so :)
[00:27] <OvenWerks> First problem is that xfce4-settings is not the package that adds the session.
[00:45] <OvenWerks> xfce4-session does that. This makes enough sense that I hesitate to suggest it be moved to xfce4-settings. 
[03:40] <gry> would someone please only ship this distro with themes that support both gtk2 and gtk3? evince looks ugly with over a half of the themes
[03:51] <Unit193> gry: Very few themes should be shipped by default already, and all should support both.
[03:52] <Unit193> Can you name one of the themes that doesn't?
[05:58] <gry> Unit193: it did not nuke the extra ones during the upgrade then. 'Oxydgen' theme is in the list and it doesn't.
[06:03] <Unit193> Not sure where that one comes from, but sounds like the KDE one.
[06:06] <gry> Unit193: "dpkg -S /usr/share/themes/Xfce-redmondxp" -- "gtk2-engines-xfce: /usr/share/themes/Xfce-redmondxp". This one does not have gtk3 support either, or whatever else prevents it from theming evince properly.
[06:07] <Unit193> Yes, that'd be GTK3 since evince is a GTK3 application.
[06:36] <gry> so... it's shipped but it does not support gtk 3 ?
[07:01] <bluesabre> gry: the themes that are shipped fully support gtk3: Albatross, Bluebird, Greybird, Numix, and Orion
[07:01] <bluesabre> themes that are included in the xfce packages may not support gtk3 as upstream xfce is still not gtk3
[07:02] <bluesabre> but the only themes we ship are in the package "shimmer-themes"
[07:03] <gry> can I like remove gtk2-engines-xfce package then? it's odd, I didn't install it manually
[07:04] <bluesabre> yes, that should be fine. it will warn you if there are any packages that will also be removed
[07:07] <gry> I removed gtk2-engines-xfce but it didn't remove that theme. Odd - package problem?
[07:07] <bluesabre> hard to say
[07:09] <bluesabre> ok, I need to go to bed
[07:09] <bluesabre> be back tomorrow, night all
[07:26] <Unit193> bluesabre: Good night!
[07:35] <elfy> Unit193: is -core in a test worthy state?
[07:35] <Unit193> I'd say so.
[07:35] <Unit193> The more review the happier I am though.
[07:36] <elfy> ok - so we'll sort out a call soon for that 
[07:38] <Unit193> Right, I'm going to have to figure out a way *to* test it...
[07:38] <elfy> Unit193: when I booted the utopic yesterday - installed the base system, but -core was not in the list to install?
[07:39] <Unit193> You'd have to add my repo, and tasks won't be there yet.
[07:39] <elfy> ok 
[07:40] <elfy> so when we're at that state we'll be closer to getting people to test it I'd say
[07:41] <Unit193> I need someone to merge it in, then, also maybe upload.  So, vote on it before testing happens? :D
[07:41] <elfy> :)
[07:42] <elfy> ochosi: just so you know - I have tested the xfpm business with the power buttons on whiskermenu and on the panel action button plugin
[08:16] <ochosi> morning everyone
[08:18] <ochosi> elfy: so for you it all works?
[08:19] <ochosi> well i personally think there might be a few other quirks, maybe even a few more bugs in xfpm
[08:19] <ochosi> after all, xfpm has been unmaintained for 2yrs or so
[08:20] <ochosi> so i'm not too concerned about all those other things that ppl sneak into their test-feedback
[08:23] <knome> bluesabre, ochosi: trello api? maybe, but what's the point of using trello if we need to modify it to our will ;)
[08:24] <ochosi> the point is it's already better than lp in some respects
[08:24] <knome> furthermore, i'd first have to learn trello more to understand all the terms
[08:24] <knome> but sure... i guess i can have a look at that
[08:24] <ochosi> well, "learn trello"... :) it's really not all that complex
[08:24] <ochosi> anyway, for the moment we're also fine as is
[08:25] <knome> well i don't mean "learn trello", i mean actually understanding the technical terms in their api docs and how they are supposed to work
[08:26] <knome> if we use the trello api, where are we pulling that stuff?
[08:29] <elfy> ochosi: yea - all that works as expected for me 
[08:29] <ochosi> knome: not sure what the plan there would be
[08:30] <ochosi> the most interesting aspect would be support for updating bug-status from launchpa
[08:30] <ochosi> d
[08:30] <knome> right...
[08:30] <ochosi> but that needs server-power or something
[08:30] <knome> that sounds like maintaining work ;)
[08:30] <ochosi> so writing bug-status to trello cards
[08:30] <knome> it would also need the trello cards to be using a very simple and strict markup to keep the script small
[08:31] <ochosi> well i guess the bugs would just have the LP link in the title/description
[08:31] <ochosi> and the bugstatus could also be part of the description
[08:31] <ochosi> so it's easy enough to change it with a script
[08:31] <ochosi> then ppl can still use comments etc in the trello card and assign it to somebody etc
[08:32] <knome> the issue i see here
[08:32] <elfy> trouble with that as it stands - a link in a comment is clickable - a link in a card title is not
[08:32] <knome> is that i think we'd have to cron LP to probe for the bug changes
[08:32] <knome> or set up something else that gets notifications form LP
[08:32] <knome> *from
[08:32] <knome> i don't know if they offer an API for output
[08:37] <knome> discuss it, write a spec what you'd like to do, and then i'll look at it :)
[08:40] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, but i guess that's solveable somehow
[08:40] <ochosi> e.g. paste the LP link again in the first comment
[08:40] <ochosi> we should discuss that with the kubuntu folks too, if they also use trello such a lot
[08:44] <elfy> I'm still not sure that this isn't trying to use a tool to do something that we've already got a suitable tool for tbh
[08:45] <ochosi> yeah, it's about having everything in one place, not about not having a suitable tool
[08:46] <elfy> mmm
[08:58] <ochosi> brainwash: say, just so that i know, are you looking into the xdg-screensaver issue?
[09:08] <ochosi> Noskcaj_: so you'll be around more regularly again now?
[09:08] <Noskcaj_> ochosi, yep
[09:08] <Noskcaj_> going to be a few day till i'm all set up though
[09:09] <ochosi> cool
[09:09] <ochosi> wb
[09:10] <Noskcaj_> thaks
[09:10] <Noskcaj_> *thanks
[09:15] <ochosi> elfy: say, does utopic already have gtk3.12?
[09:17] <Unit193> !info libgtk-3-0 utopic
[09:17] <ubottu> libgtk-3-0 (source: gtk+3.0): GTK+ graphical user interface library. In component main, is optional. Version 3.10.8-0ubuntu2 (utopic), package size 1884 kB, installed size 6753 kB
[09:19] <ochosi> well done :)
[09:19] <ochosi> i'll try to remember that syntax then
[09:21] <elfy> wut
[09:22] <ochosi> elfy: i put down some notes in -features wrt gtk3.12 that might also be of interest to you
[09:22] <ochosi> it's just something we should monitor
[09:23] <ochosi> and maybe ask the ubuntu-desktop guys when they plan on landing 3.12
[09:23] <elfy> ta
[09:23] <ochosi> i'm not sure what they're gonna do with respect to those gnome "technologies" like headerbar and menus
[09:24] <ochosi> they patched it all out in 14.04, would be important for us to know what the plan is in 14.10
[09:24] <elfy> yea 
[09:25] <elfy> I watch the m/l's for them I'm sure 
[09:52] <brainwash> ochosi: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745340
[09:52] <ubottu> Debian bug 745340 in xdg-utils "/usr/bin/xdg-screensaver: "xdg-screensaver reset" does not reset DPMS timeout" [Important,Open]
[09:52] <brainwash> I still don't have access to my test system with xubuntu trusty right now
[09:53] <brainwash> so I did not do any experiments
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
[10:26] <ochosi> brainwash: right, maybe link that bug-report to ours
[10:26]  * ochosi takes off towards a BBQ
[10:26] <ochosi> will be back later today/tonight
[10:43] <elfy> bring back something nice for us :)
[10:56] <knome> ochosi, did you know about harvest.ubuntu.com?
[10:56] <knome> Mirv mentioned it before when we met, and now ubuntu women are working to improve it
[16:32] <Unit193> knome: Yeah, but ignore it now since it's not as useful.
[16:43] <pleia2> good day, my xfce loving friends
[16:44] <elfy> hi pleia2 
[17:20] <pleia2> saw trellobot mentioned, if we need to run one I'm happy to give a shell account for it
[17:21] <pleia2> which reminds me, I need to reboot that VM soon so we can get our ram upgrade (hooray)
[17:21]  * pleia2 adds planning that to todo list
[17:22] <elfy> which is where we differ - I'd be planning to add that to the list
[17:22] <pleia2> hehe
[17:22] <elfy> and then get all Mediterranean about it :)
[17:22] <pleia2> planning is a thing, I need to define a maintenance window, inform all users..
[17:22] <pleia2> :)
[17:23] <elfy> consider this one informed :p
[17:34] <Unit193> pleia2: I have it running now, deps are ruby+some gems if you're interested (it uses the cinch framework.)
[17:36] <pleia2> Unit193: well, do you need a server spot to host it on, or are you ok with running it?
[17:36] <pleia2> don't want to take it away from you if your server works :) just offering
[18:03] <Unit193> pleia2: I think I'm good, unless someone else thinks otherwise.  Thanks though!
[18:23] <MIke11123> Howdy,  I'm am having a problem getting some services started.   Initctl is giving me an error that com.ubuntu.Upstart doesn't exist 
[21:09] <ochosi> knome: no, never heard of harvest
[21:10] <ochosi> Unit193: wanna package up this plugin in a PPA? https://github.com/andrzej-r/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
[21:11] <ochosi> for this kind of stuff and xfdashboard we really should get some sort of extras PPA
[21:11] <Unit193> I have one. :P
[21:12] <elfy> so that'll be 3 then ochosi :)
[21:12] <ochosi> yeah, that'd make 3
[21:12] <ochosi> initially i hadn't thought of making a distinction between the dev-ppa and -staging
[21:13] <ochosi> but the distinction between dev and extras/apps was always thought of
[21:13] <elfy> yep
[21:13] <elfy> certainly makes sense
[21:13] <ochosi> not sure how many apps we'll really accumulate there
[21:13] <ochosi> but who knows, it might not hurt to have the opportunity
[21:14] <elfy> doesn't matter much I guess - just not having loads from different people will help :)
[21:14] <Unit193> At this point, it's just updating xfdashboard which is easy enough, if it doesn't involve Ubuntu. :P
[21:14] <Unit193> ochosi: See -> #xfce-dev
[21:15] <ochosi> brb
[21:49] <ochosi> re
[21:50] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i read the backlog
[21:50] <ochosi> i'm not very surprised xfdashboard won't make it into debian
[21:50] <Unit193> Mhmm, as I said, figured may as well ask.
[21:50] <ochosi> yeah, absolutely
[21:50] <ochosi> better to know for sure
[21:51] <Unit193> Actually easy to talk to that time.  https://bitbucket.com/unit193/xfdashboard/
[21:51] <ochosi> knome: was there a specific reason you asked about harvest? are you proposing it for xubuntu in some way?
[21:51] <knome> well, i thought it might be a useful tool for figuring out possible pledges
[21:52] <ochosi> right
[21:52] <ochosi> well, from my pov, i wouldn't personally even get involved in pledges
[21:52] <knome> sure
[21:52] <ochosi> as long as -team doesn't have funds
[21:52] <ochosi> or a way of receiving funds
[21:52] <knome> and i guess it's generally a nice thing
[21:52] <knome> if you want to find bugs
[22:35] <ochosi> crap, nobody ever noticed that indicator-power looks like crap with the normal elementary-xfce icons? (i.e. not elementary-xfce-dark/er)
[22:35] <ochosi> ->double-crap
[22:36]  * ochosi switches back to elementary-xfce-darker quickly and forgets what he has seen