[07:39] any specific reason -testers is subscribed to librabbitmq and telepathy-farstream? [07:39] i'm sure most of the testers do not appreciate bugmail for those packages... [07:46] I saw that, no idea why it should be. If anything at all, it'd be the xubuntu-bugs team. [07:47] the -qa team is a potential candidate as well. [07:49] So just think about it like this, not seeded in Xubuntu, not going to be, so no reason to have it subscribed. [07:54] no idea either [07:57] and we're not [07:57] elfy, drop librabbitmq while you're at it [07:57] cool. [07:58] I did :) [07:58] I wondered where those reports were coming from - but wasn't interested enough to go looking [08:01] could subscribe -testers to things like the xfpm/lid close thing - possibly get more people seeing that something needs testing [08:01] * elfy never thought of that [08:07] ochosi, knome: OK, well I'll mention it then be done. Trello bot is done, less spammy and works. Could get more features or have things worded better, but nevertheless. [09:47] Unit193: nice! [16:01] Unit193: poke [16:03] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1320830 [16:03] Launchpad bug 1320830 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] [16:03] I'm not getting the same build error that dholbach is... [16:04] are my debdiffs bad? [16:05] ... [16:05] is he trying to use 1.8.4 with the 1.8.5 source? [16:18] bluesabre: tried pinging dholbach yet? [16:18] not yet [16:19] want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid [16:19] :D [16:24] http://linuxluddites.com/shows/episode-16/ [16:24] haven't listened yet (soon!) but I was interviewed about Xubuntu there [16:31] my part is only like 25 minutes. whole thing is 2 hours [16:31] * pleia2 listens to all [16:32] Xubuntu/Interview starts about 1:30:00 [16:35] Interview at 1:35:10 [16:36] thanks ElderDryas :) [16:36] huh, after an hour and a half of the show, /me thinks pleia2 has a funny accent :) [16:41] * bluesabre listens [16:41] gnu* things always trick me [16:42] ElderDryas: lol [16:42] now the name *gnumeric makes sense hearing somebody else say it [16:42] bluesabre: hey, instead of listening you should get the xfpm/lls patch up for 14.10! >:D [16:42] working on that right now [16:43] >:) [16:44] * ochosi is an evil slave driver [16:45] so everyone who voted for me, joke's on you! [16:45] So...how's that Hopey Changy thing working for you? :) [16:45] bluesabre: i'm aware you didn't vote for me, so yeah, go complain to the others ;) [16:46] lol [16:46] didn't want you to win too easily [16:46] * bluesabre had to put up a fight [16:49] :) [16:54] * elfy was just part of the subversion element [16:54] let someone else be xpl [16:54] blame them :p [16:58] :D [17:02] nice interview pleia2 :) [17:07] yeah, good stuff pleia2 :D [17:16] thanks guys [17:21] ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1323368 [17:21] Launchpad bug 1323368 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed] [17:21] ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367 [17:21] Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed] [17:29] bluesabre: great, thanks! [18:26] elfy: no ibus included in the daily iso bug 1318319 [18:26] bug 1318319 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Return of ibus to Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318319 [18:29] we need to re-assign bug 1310380 [18:29] bug 1310380 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 14.04 live DVD does not boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310380 [18:29] brainwash: haven't noticed if it's gone again tbh [18:30] elfy: maybe mark as incomplete/invalid then? [18:30] the 2nd report is caused by the nvidia gpu, so not sure which package to choose [18:30] just "linux"? [18:31] brainwash: juts booting one [18:31] and why would I mark it like that - when I reported it - it WAS there :) [18:31] brainwash, nouveau? [18:32] knome: yes, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau [18:32] right [18:32] elfy: mmh, we need to confirm it then [18:32] check the gnome-bluetooth deps [18:33] amazing how many people say stuff like that [18:33] like what? [18:33] we don't install gnome-bluetooth anymore [18:34] like 'we need to confirm x' which I generally take to mean 'someone other than me should confirm x' [18:34] lol [18:34] i'm eating [18:35] I cannot confirm it [18:35] i can look at it later if you think i'm being lazy ;) [18:35] so it's +1/-1 [18:35] nah [18:35] I'm just looking now [18:35] thanks :) [18:35] hopefully it got removed [18:35] elfy, generally, if you feel like i'm avoiding to do things, feel free to call that out and tell me i need to do it [18:35] no idea how the damn thing got back in either [18:35] :P [18:36] knome: lol [18:36] except take the XPL hat... [18:37] knome: you know you miss it [18:37] bluesabre, of course i do. but then i also definitely don't :) [18:37] generally I feel that the majority of team could do more testing - it appears that 8 of team reported on the trackers [18:38] but if I set a cutoff- get listed if you do more than 2 it would be less :p [18:38] mmh [18:38] i seriously promise to do more testing this cycle when we hit the milestones [18:38] :p [18:40] it's just really hard to keep all the strings somewhat in your hands and then be able to dig deep in all areas, especially those that require relatively lot of time, even if they were easy and/but important things [18:41] I know :) [18:41] it's a completely different story when you basically "only" need to make sure your own work items get done :) [18:41] not when you're work items depend on everyone else ;) [18:42] anyway - enough of that [18:44] yeah... that's not the ideal situation either :) [18:44] well it's a bit hard for QA to be in any other position really :) [18:45] but i do think that with the current XPL term policy (ends with LTS), the last LTS release *is* going to be "the definitive" release that defines how well you generally did running the project [18:45] kind of depends on other people checking things :) [18:45] and you don't want that to be crap... [18:45] ha ha ha [18:45] indeed not :) [18:45] oh yea that knome - he released THAT one ! [18:45] :p [18:46] hehe [18:46] yeah [18:46] it would have been really sad to NOT see the new things prepared for many cycles in 14.04 [18:46] including light-locker, even if it might seem, for some people, to only bring problems [18:47] problems which will be fixed soon [18:47] yep [18:47] or, are fixed, just need to be uploaded [18:48] mhm, part of the "ll is crap" attitude is because not all people know how we ended up here [18:48] knome: I agree [18:48] and what's happening now [18:48] parole improvements are also great, even if i don't really use non-gmb media players [18:49] menulibre *will* be awesome and is already better than alacarte [18:49] and it was a nice touch to get mugshot and gtk-theme-config in [18:49] well it does actually do things - I gave up with alacarte [18:49] hehe [18:49] yeah... [18:49] i even went to the extreme of not using menus at all [18:49] now i'm using them a bit [18:50] I got so used to using shortcuts to start things [18:50] I probably use menu for 2 or 3 things that I use [18:51] when we can search for 'settings' apps in menulibre - that will be great [18:51] on the other hand I really don't want things to change too much :) [18:52] so bluesabre - you can only change things if it means the testcase can stay the same :p [18:52] :) [18:52] the plan for this cycle was just bug fixes and tiny improvements [18:52] and code optimization [18:52] (for my apps) [18:52] yea [18:52] I sort of got the gist of that [18:53] bluesabre, sounds like something you should have done for the LTS cycle [18:53] * knome hides [18:54] I am doing it for the LTS cycle... [18:54] 16.04 [18:54] lol [18:54] yeah sure [18:54] i'm sure you are completely rewriting menulibre to release 6.0 then! [18:54] :D [18:55] bluesabre: just checking here - you do know the meeting is in 66 minutes not 6 ... [18:55] if anything, I'll write my own menu parser since the gnome one is cruel [18:55] elfy, yeah, figured I'd tell everybody to wake up in 6 minutes anyway ;) [18:55] that's gnomes for you [18:55] heh [19:11] oh right, the meeting [19:11] could probably do that one in the balcony if it's not too cool there [19:12] you'd get electrocuted here [19:14] huhu? [20:00] crap, my connection is a bit wonky [20:00] anyhoo [20:01] :) [20:01] !team | meeting time! [20:01] meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 [20:01] (and everyone else ofc) [20:01] #startmeeting [20:01] Meeting started Mon May 26 20:01:30 2014 UTC. The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [20:01] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [20:01] \o/ [20:01] oh boo, i'm soon running out off battery [20:01] indeed, boo [20:01] o/ [20:01] i think we were a bit lazy in terms of adding stuff to the agenda :) [20:02] anyway, i'll quickly tell you about my action items from last time: staging PPA: done. [20:02] continuing the voting on the ML was done, but we should discuss the result today i think [20:03] and i sent an email about how to do team meetings [20:03] bluesabre: how about your open action items? [20:03] (greeter and menulibre SRU) [20:03] #info lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5 is stuck, working on it [20:04] #info menulibre SRU in progress [20:04] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405 [20:04] Launchpad bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New] [20:04] bluesabre, if you need help with getting the black screen in, poke me [20:04] err, black screen fix [20:04] hehe [20:04] knome: will do [20:04] knome breaks everyone's install, if needed [20:04] support i'll link those as well [20:05] or, wait until announcements for those [20:05] yup, or team updates :) [20:05] elfy: what about your open action items? [20:05] do I have any? [20:05] nah, i think they're all done [20:06] just wanted to make sure [20:06] #topic Team updates [20:06] the one action thing from the last meeting was done before the meeting finished :p [20:06] any team updates ppl? [20:06] #info QA is slow - hardly any movement at all [20:06] done [20:07] ;)= [20:07] oh hi [20:07] oh hi pleia2! [20:07] black screen fix should go here or announcements? [20:08] hey pleia2! [20:08] bluesabre, here's good [20:08] ok [20:08] #info Artwork: Our icon-theme is being worked on currently, hopefully a new release soon. Fixed a few visual bugs, like bluetooth status not showing correctly in the panel (blueman) and fix for indicator-power and bright panels. [20:08] #info Artwork: Work on Gtk3.12 support in our themes is currently blocked by Gtk3.12 not being in the repos yet. [20:08] #info Marketing: pleia2 did an interview for Linux Luddites Episode #16 on Xubuntu http://linuxluddites.com/shows/episode-16/ [20:08] pleia2, ooh, can we SOME that? [20:08] #info Development: The light-locker black screen fix is in the sponsors queue [20:09] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1323368 [20:09] Launchpad bug 1323368 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed] [20:09] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367 [20:09] Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed] [20:09] iirc links are picked up automatically now [20:09] no need for #link anymore [20:09] knome: hm? [20:09] (just saying) [20:09] pleia2, social media [20:09] * bluesabre rocks it old school [20:10] heh [20:10] knome: done! [20:10] at least links with nothing else on the line... [20:10] bluesabre: sure, however you prefer ;) [20:10] pleia2, cool :) [20:10] knome: did you #info the external CSS yet? [20:10] bluesabre, i've bumped the importance to critical. [20:10] pleia2, oh noes [20:10] i need power [20:10] brb [20:10] thanks knome [20:10] * Unit193 been skimming. [20:10] any further team updates? [20:11] y [20:11] ok, will wait for you then [20:11] just wanted to say in advance that despite the empty schedule, there are a few things worth discussing [20:11] #info Website new static.xubuntu.org CSS page was added to theme so we can do some of our own CSS updates without waiting on IS [20:11] oh duh [20:11] i was writing a much more verbose one [20:11] \o/ nice pleia2 and knome [20:12] ochosi, that was my item ;) [20:12] verbose-- [20:12] :) [20:12] nah [20:12] depends! [20:12] ok, any other updates? [20:12] bluesabre, btw, i'm not sure if you should set the bug confirmed [20:13] I'm done [20:13] bluesabre, that might not be the way the SRU team tracks the bugs... [20:13] knome: those two aren't for SRU yet [20:13] gotta go to utopic, the SRU back to trusty [20:13] #topic Announcements [20:13] so more bugs in the future :) [20:13] * ochosi assumes that when pleia2 is done, everyone is [20:13] any announcements? [20:14] bluesabre, hmm, sponsors what i meant ;) [20:14] ok, then it's good for sponsors ;) [20:14] bluesabre, i somehow thought sru... [20:14] ochosi: should there not be an announcement from you [20:14] on the mailing list thing [20:14] and debian liaison? [20:14] or did that get two weeks [20:14] elfy: i actually wanted to wait for discussion for that one [20:15] anybody else going to apply for tech lead? [20:15] who knows... ;) [20:15] * elfy will just so there is someone else [20:15] oh good [20:15] what is it? [20:15] haha [20:15] ;) [20:15] knome: debian liaison has a week, so thursday... [20:15] ochosi, practically this is "next week", but okay ;) [20:16] i can of course always prematurely announce it if you insist ;) [20:16] go as you please [20:16] there are 3 replies - that's generally about it ;) [20:16] just a thought that popped into my mind [20:16] ochosi: I hear Noskcaj_ wanted that. ;) [20:16] ok, i'll wait one more minute (or two) for further announcements, then i'll carry on [20:16] Unit193, wanted to cheer you? yeah... [20:17] Unit193: that's not how i interpreted his email ;) [20:17] Unit193, What do i want? [20:17] and hi Noskcaj_ :) [20:17] any announcements from you? [20:17] hey ochosi [20:17] Unit193, stop being a slimey amoeba;) [20:17] I'm back? [20:17] welcome [20:17] yay! [20:17] hehe, good announcement :) [20:17] better #info that ;) [20:17] another dictator ruling the project now [20:17] bluesabre: Also, yes, don't set it to confirmed. [20:17] * knome hides [20:18] hehe, he's back and he's off [20:18] just stopping by to say i'm back! bye! :) [20:18] ok, let's carry on... [20:18] oh, I guess confirmed is only for sponsored merges [20:18] #topic Discussion [20:19] #suptopic Mailinglist proposal by knome [20:19] as you all know, we voted on knome's proposal last time [20:19] the result wasn't quite as unanimous as i'd have hoped [20:20] we discussed this outside the meetings and i came to the following conclusion/proposal: [20:20] especially in the light of the ML being rather slow lately and strangely since we started discussing closing the ML the offtopic stuff got reduced, i think we can leave it open for now [20:21] but we try a "two strikes, and you're flagged" model (or X strikes, if ppl have good reasons that 2 is not ok) [20:21] so when somebody sends inappropriate or offtopic stuff Ã la "Install LibreOffice by default" to the ML [20:21] or something that is a bugreport, or a support request [20:21] ( ^ technically, set the moderation flag for the email address so further mails from that person needs moderation) [20:21] a moderator of the list gets in touch with the "offender" directly and personally [20:22] if the person ignores that and offends again, he/she gets flagged [20:22] good, i don't have to explain flagging anymore, thanks knome :) [20:22] ( ^ messages should also be sent CC to xubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com, so other moderators know it's been dealt with) [20:22] so yeah, that'd be the proposal, and if everyone can live with it, i'd say we try that for at least a month [20:23] generally, this would be a very dynamic policy anway though [20:23] if there's no offtopic stuff, there's nothing to moderate [20:23] but only admins can flag - is that right? [20:23] sounds reasonable to me [20:23] and finally, if you aren't sure, ask other moderators [20:23] if the offtopic stuff takes over, we flag lots of people [20:23] elfy, only owners can flag, that's me and pleia2 atm [20:23] knome: care to list the moderators, so that everyone knows? [20:24] owners are (can set flags): knome, pleia2 [20:24] moderators are: elfy, unit193, bluesabre (+owners) [20:24] I'd also appreciate discussion about this, if someone thinks someone is borderline, let me and knome know, I have a tendancy to give folks reams of rope to hang themselves with :) [20:25] sending a mail to xubuntu-devel-owner@lists ... sends a mail to everybody in those two groups. [20:25] i'm the bad cop, pleia2 is the good cop [20:25] and I have a tendency to use very short rope - having other things to do than baby people [20:25] hehe [20:25] but i'll promise to try to be as prompt as possible if people request moderation flags [20:25] also, [20:25] if we're going to be going - ooh shall we, not sure,, mmm [20:25] we should set a policy... [20:26] elfy: I tend to just ignore, because it's "Ubuntu, so gotta give so much rope you lose sight of them." [20:26] then I don't want to be involved in that at all [20:26] when moderator X sends the mail and CC's other owners [20:26] the same moderator should take care of noticing the second strike [20:26] (if at all possible) [20:26] i'd personally prefer if we wouldn't vote on this again, cause it slows things down, if the owners and moderators of the list are ok with this proposal, i'd like to put it in effect now/today [20:27] and i guess once that happens and anybody notices that, send another mail to -owner [20:27] so other moderators know that's it's going to happen, and we owners can act accordingly and add the flag [20:27] if needed, we can document this, i just wanna "get on with it!" and talk about other things :) [20:27] if everybody is happy with the proposal, i can document it under Processes in the wiki today [20:28] sweet, thanks knome [20:28] (i hoped you'd say that ;)) [20:28] but of course! ;) [20:28] pleia2: +1/0/-1? :) [20:28] moderators? [20:28] * elfy can see this getting completely wishy washy [20:28] +1 [20:28] if we need to flag loads of people, we can always reassess the need for full moderation. [20:28] exactly [20:29] Policy++ [20:29] I'll just in whichever way gets this moving [20:29] yeah, i can +1 this one as well, but i'll want one from pleia2 too, because this is clearly more work for *owners* then the previous proposal. [20:29] elfy: well there's only one obvious way to get this moving... ;) [20:29] should be ok [20:29] +0 [20:29] I'll sit on the fence then ;) [20:30] heh [20:30] we can reassess if it's annoying/awful :) [20:30] fine [20:30] #info The mailinglist will get moderated on a per-offender basis, "two strikes and you're flagged". [20:30] #action knome to describe the -devel ML moderation policy to Processes in the wiki [20:30] ACTION: knome to describe the -devel ML moderation policy to Processes in the wiki [20:30] #action knome will document the new moderation policy against offenders on the wiki [20:30] ACTION: knome will document the new moderation policy against offenders on the wiki [20:30] garr [20:30] :) [20:30] #undo [20:31] thanks [20:31] hmm, only chair can undo [20:31] #undo [20:31] Removing item from minutes: ACTION [20:31] ok, let's move on [20:31] #subtopic Trello [20:32] as it wasnt announced, i thought we could quickly talk about it [20:32] there's a big trello board now that elfy set up [20:32] bluesabre also used it already [20:32] elfy: wanna do a few #infos? [20:33] so my proposal with this one is that we try it out [20:33] it can't really be much worse than the launchpad blueprints in terms of up-to-dateness [20:33] :) [20:33] try it for one cycle and then re-assess how it helped us and what would be needed for it to work better [20:33] #info Unit193 set up a Trello bot for interaction with the board from within IRC. [20:34] does that need a trello account? [20:34] unfortunately yes [20:34] or how's the interaction done [20:34] Unit193: further infos on that? will it always reside in a different channel? how does it work? [20:35] there's currently 5 team members not there - knome, skellat, michah, lionel and jackson [20:35] 2 of those are not about for sure anyway [20:35] has anyone talked to skellat lately? how long is he MIA? [20:35] * knome has been slacking [20:36] ochosi, probably not getting back very son [20:36] *soon [20:36] ochosi: from what I saw - another cycle [20:36] actually micah mentioned that he got promoted at work, so he's busier than before [20:36] which begs the question - if missing for 2 cycles [20:36] don't wanna jump to conclusions, but i don't think he (=micahg) will be around much during U [20:37] elfy: you mean wrt team membership status? [20:37] ochosi: I got that impression [20:37] ochosi: yea [20:37] right, iirc knome did something before leaving me this moldy chair that ii'm currently residing on [20:37] something with respect to team membership running out if there are no contributions for X cycles [20:38] ochosi, whatever you do, don't smell it! [20:38] i haven't done very strict cleaning. [20:38] but i don't remember whether the policy was put into place or just thought about [20:38] "Anyone with no contributions for more than a complete cycle (6 months) should deactivate themself from the team as well as all subteams and reapply if/when they are willing to rejoin. " [20:38] i've asked some people whether they think they will continue contributing [20:38] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Team [20:38] by that definition, skellat and mr_pouit should be probably dropped. [20:39] i think mr_pouit did one upload of shimmer-themes in the trusty cycle [20:39] depends now on what you count as "contributing" [20:39]