[00:01] <sergio-br2> i installed trusty here, yesterday. Congratulations for all team for this amazing version!
[00:02] <ochosi> thanks :)
[00:35] <sergio-br2> the shotwell icon is missing in 22, 24 and 24
[00:36] <sergio-br2> *32
[00:37] <ochosi> yeah
[00:37] <ochosi> not too bad actually
[00:38] <ochosi> i drew the ubiquity icon in 4 sizes very quick now
[00:38] <ochosi> we can use the existing shotwell icons in our theme and just change parts of it
[00:38] <ochosi> the calendar icons also need a cleanup at some point
[00:38] <ochosi> and what annoys me a bit is the huge amount of duplication/uncertainty between status/panel/notifications
[00:40] <sergio-br2> when i plug my laptop to AC, battery icon does not change
[00:41] <sergio-br2> is it related to the icons? or other thing?
[00:47] <ochosi> sergio-br2: screenshot plz
[00:53] <sergio-br2> hum, it works
[00:54] <sergio-br2> but only if my laptop is charging, then there is the right icon
[00:54] <ochosi> so when does it *not* work?
[00:55] <sergio-br2> if it is with 95% or higher, then the icon is not that charging/AC icon, it has that battery icon
[00:55] <ochosi> oddd
[00:55] <ochosi> luckily we'll have something better next cycle...
[00:55] <sergio-br2> like this: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-27052014-024848.php
[00:56] <ochosi> but it is connected/charging?
[00:56] <sergio-br2> that the point
[00:56] <ochosi> hmm, but then
[00:56] <ochosi> could you quickly open the power-manager preferences
[00:57] <ochosi> and then enable the trayicon there
[00:57] <ochosi> it's in the first tab
[00:57] <ochosi> just to see whether that shows the correct icon
[00:57] <sergio-br2> higher than 95%, my battery does not charge. It charge to 100% only if it has less than 95 %
[01:14] <ochosi> btw, the dialog-warning icon in upstream is also much nicer...
[01:15] <ochosi> but it's lacking more sizes than it has
[01:28] <sergio-br2> ochosi, take a look: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-27052014-032652.php
[01:29] <ochosi> then it's probably a bug in upower
[01:29] <ochosi> so nothing we can do about it
[01:53] <sergio-br2> hum dialog-warning is a yellow triangle right?
[01:54] <ochosi> yup
[01:54] <sergio-br2> better
[01:54] <ochosi> yup
[01:54] <ochosi> but also only available in 48px and 64px
[01:54] <sergio-br2> red is like stop, danger, not warning
[01:54] <sergio-br2> there are other icons different too
[01:55] <sergio-br2> apt-daemon-*
[01:55] <ochosi> yes, but also those are only available in very few sizes...
[01:56] <sergio-br2> maybe he will do other sizes?
[01:56] <sergio-br2> well, this can be a to do list for us
[01:57] <sergio-br2> i'm very slow, doing other stuff here. I think when i return to brazil, in july, i will have more time
[01:57] <sergio-br2> until 14.04.1 we can do all these things
[02:00] <ochosi> yup, maybe/hopefully
[02:00] <ochosi> i don't really think he will do any other sizes
[02:00] <ochosi> he only does what he needs for eOS
[02:00] <ochosi> whatever he's not sure about, he doesn't touch
[02:01] <ochosi> (or whatever he never sees in eOS)
[02:06] <ochosi> sergio-br2: i think the warning thing i like enough to quickly do the other sizes...
[02:07] <sergio-br2> you do? ok
[02:09] <ochosi> yeah, the 24/22 is already done
[02:17] <ochosi> humm, only 128px missing now
[02:17] <ochosi> sergio-br2: if you wanna do that one ^, i'll leave it for you and push what i got now
[02:17] <ochosi> don't think i have the energy to do another size now
[02:18] <ochosi> but 16,22,24 and 32 are done
[02:18] <sergio-br2> ok
[02:18] <sergio-br2> push then
[02:21] <ochosi> ah, nvm, i'm half-done with the 128px version
[02:21] <ochosi> you can focus on other stuff...
[02:26] <ochosi> sergio-br2: done. i almost *wanna* see a warning dialog now :)
[02:27] <sergio-br2> working in it
[02:28] <ochosi> alrighty, have fun, i gotta get some sleep
[02:33] <sergio-br2> hum
[02:37] <sergio-br2> gonna sleep to
[02:37] <sergio-br2> bye!
[03:11] <Logan_> bluesabre: sorry, I'll look at those bugs now
[03:11] <Logan_> got sidetracked
[04:12] <Logan_> I don't trust bots made by Unit193 
[04:12] <Unit193> >_>
[04:14] <Unit193> Logan_: Only one of them is here, all the others are elsewhere, don't worry.
[04:14] <Logan_> good :P
[04:22] <Logan_> bluesabre: ping me when you're around
[08:13] <ochosi> morning everyone
[08:13] <Unit193> Howdy.
[09:35] <slickymasterWork> knome: I don't have a clue why Trello starts with a 'T' and ends with an 'o', other than the fact that is the right way to spell the word :P
[09:36] <knome> :P
[09:37] <slickymasterWork> and a good afternoon knome 
[09:37] <ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
[09:37] <slickymasterWork> hi ochosi, morning
[09:37] <knome> hey slickymasterWork, ochosi 
[09:40] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: just a small reminder, please set the time for the next meeting asap
[09:45] <slickymasterWork> ochosi, was going to poke you on that. What are your thoughts regarding the amount of time between meetings. weekly baseed?
[09:45] <knome> slickymasterWork, just schedule something for *next week*
[09:45] <knome> week 23 that is
[09:46] <knome> in this case, it might practically mean there's more than a week between
[09:46] <qwebirc495410> sorry ochosi, lost connectivity
[09:48] <knome> 12:45  knome: slickymasterWork, just schedule something for *next week*
[09:48] <knome> 12:45  knome: week 23 that is
[09:48] <knome> 12:46  knome: in this case, it might practically mean there's more than a week  between
[09:48] <ochosi> sure, no problem slicky .)
[09:48] <ochosi> +1 on that ^
[09:52] <slickymasterWork> okay guys, let me just check my schedule regarding my kid next week and I'll do it
[09:52] <ochosi> sure sure, no rush
[09:52] <slickymasterWork> knome, you do realize that this means that I'll be poking this weekend asking for some tutoring 
[09:52] <ochosi> just something we wanna get done today or tomorrow sometime
[09:52] <knome> slickymasterWork, no problem.
[09:53] <slickymasterWork> it will be done today, I just have to be in touch with is mother 
[09:54] <slickymasterWork> the announcement is to be made in the ML or the Meetings page?
[09:55] <slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^^
[09:56] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: ideally both
[10:04] <slickymasterWork> ok, both it will then
[10:16] <bluesabre> hey Logan_, what's up?
[10:36] <slickymasterWork> ochosi: next meeting is scheduled to June 3rd, 20:00 UTC
[10:36] <ochosi> okey, ty
[10:36] <ochosi> i presume 20utc is a time that works fine for you?
[10:37] <ochosi> cause you can schedule the meeting *whenever* you want
[10:37] <slickymasterWork> knome: ^^^ can you please confirm that I add this in the proper place at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[10:37] <ochosi> (that's actually one of the reasons for cycling chairs)
[10:37] <slickymasterWork> that's the best time for me, I'll be home without the connectivity constraints I have here at work
[10:37] <ochosi> ok gerat
[10:37] <ochosi> great
[10:38] <ochosi> only asked cause you weren't here last night (same time)
[10:40] <slickymasterWork> yeah, but yesterday was due to the fact that I was with my kid, which I won't be next Tuesday
[10:43] <ochosi> sure
[10:48] <knome> slickymasterWork, when you go to the editing mode, you should always have two things there
[10:48] <knome> "Next meeting isn't scheduled yet."
[10:49] <knome> and the "The next Xubuntu..."
[10:49] <knome> just uncomment/comment the appropriate one
[10:49] <knome> and change the URL and the link text
[10:49] <knome> otherwise looks good.
[10:50] <slickymasterWork> knome, I haven't done that though :P
[10:51] <slickymasterWork> I just went ahead and replaced the "Next meeting isn't scheduled yet. with The next Xubuntu Community meeting will take place at 20:00 UTC on Tuesday, June 3rd.
[10:51] <slickymasterWork> I'll have to roll it back
[10:54] <slickymasterWork> knome: think it's fixed as intended now
[10:54] <knome> looks good to me :)
[10:55] <slickymasterWork> can you confirm, please
[10:55] <knome> yep
[10:55] <slickymasterWork> I left the "Next meeting isn't scheduled yet" commented
[10:55] <knome> yep, that's good
[10:55] <knome> that way it's less work to show that
[10:55] <slickymasterWork> yes
[13:34] <knome> meeting is in the calendar now
[13:35] <qwebirc817052> thanks knome 
[13:35] <knome> you're welcome david
[13:36] <qwebirc817052> :)
[13:36] <knome> bad connectivity today?
[13:36] <slickymasterWork> the usual knome 
[13:36] <slickymasterWork> a lousy one
[13:37] <knome> hehe
[13:37] <slickymasterWork> I'm always with a permanent ttl above my head like a Damocles sword
[13:38] <knome> so you can't access ssh from work?
[13:38] <slickymasterWork> no, no chances
[13:39] <slickymasterWork> I only can communicate through port 80 
[13:39] <slickymasterWork> to the exterior that is
[13:39] <knome> mmh
[13:39] <slickymasterWork> I can use other ports within out intranet
[13:39] <slickymasterWork> to a several servers
[17:08] <brainwash> ochosi: add bug 1024482 to the trusty blueprint or just to the utopic one?
[17:08] <brainwash> it's about the missing busy cursor on the root background
[17:09] <brainwash> I assume that we want this to be fixed in trusty too, many people actually complain about the missing busy cursor
[17:11] <brainwash> just need to figure out why firefox/thunderbird don't trigger it, most other apps do
[17:49] <brainwash> bluesabre: shouldn't lightdm-gtk-greeter depend on lightdm?
[19:58] <elfy> brainwash: so is anyone actually reporting that recently for us?
[19:59] <elfy> or is it really that old - and Ubuntu
[19:59] <elfy> affecting 9 people in 2 years ...
[20:02] <brainwash> the report was not targeting the busy cursor problem in xubuntu
[20:03] <elfy> and is anyone reporting it for Xubuntu is what I'm saying?
[20:03] <elfy> I've not seen anything
[20:03] <brainwash> bug 1323745
[20:03] <brainwash> :P
[20:03] <elfy> 1 person
[20:04] <elfy> if we put every Xubuntu bug on the blueprint it becomes completely pointless
[20:04] <brainwash> well, there is some talk about it on ubuntuforums, askubuntu, xfce forum,..
[20:04] <brainwash> we got a fix for it already
[20:05] <elfy> but whatever - fill the blueprint with 100's and 100's of bugs and in 4 months 3 weeks - it'll be still full of 100's and 100's of bugs
[20:05] <brainwash> linking it to the blueprint just helps to actually get the fix in (I hope)
[20:06] <elfy> whatever - nothing to do with me 
[20:06] <brainwash> it's not like I'm adding tons of reports to the blueprint :/
[20:06] <elfy> no I know you aren't :)
[20:06] <elfy> I just really wonder about the point in even bothering with a report from 1 person
[20:07] <elfy> the ones that should be looked at earlier are ones like xfpm/sound indicator - that we release with and make us look ridiculous
[20:08] <brainwash> the new filed report might only affect 1 person as of now, but the issue has been reported on forums and the debian bug tracker
[20:09] <brainwash> well, it's just a spinning cursor after all.. nothing of importance :)
[20:09] <elfy> I just fail to see what a debian bug has to do with us :)
[20:10] <elfy> that is Xubuntu - not people in Xubuntu team :)
[20:10] <elfy> lol 
[20:10] <brainwash> just mentioned it to show that it's a common problem
[20:10] <elfy> lol
[20:10] <brainwash> it affects you and me
[20:10] <elfy> sorry brainwash :)
[20:11] <elfy> it doesn't affect me :)
[20:11] <brainwash> but you can confirm it
[20:11] <brainwash> like every other xubuntu user can
[20:11] <elfy> no I can't 
[20:12] <brainwash> you see a spinning cursor when you launch some application?
[20:12] <knome> elfy, you mean you don't consider it a bug, or you see the "working" cursor?
[20:12] <elfy> I don't notice this behaviour - can't confirm it 
[20:13] <knome> i think it might be a design decision
[20:13] <elfy> the bug report isn't particularly descriptive 
[20:14] <elfy> do you mean like the 'spinning cursor' you see when you might for instance mount a partition in thunar?
[20:14] <brainwash> no, startup notification
[20:14] <elfy> means nothing to me 
[20:15] <brainwash> you start some app and the busy/spinning/working cursor appears until the app is finally loaded
[20:15] <elfy> oh that
[20:15] <brainwash> a visual feedback
[20:15] <elfy> yea don't see that - not that worried about it either :p
[20:16] <brainwash> :)
[20:17] <brainwash> just want to know if it's worth to fix this in our LTS release
[20:17] <elfy> I'd certainly not be worried enough to go looking for a bug for it - nor report it 
[20:17] <elfy> ask the XPL :p
[20:18] <brainwash> that's what I did :D
[20:18] <elfy> I was just saying that I'd not put it on the blueprint :)
[20:18] <elfy> as it's not a Xubuntu thing - we might be affected by it 
[20:20] <elfy> anyway - whatever - that being something else I said :)
[20:22] <ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10630 you probably want to fix this one first
[20:22] <ali1234> because without it, startup notification won't work unless the user turns it off and then on again for every launcher
[20:23] <ali1234> note i attached a patch to fix that... several months ago
[20:25] <brainwash> right, maybe we could apply it downstream
[20:26] <brainwash> there is also more stuff broken in libxfce4ui
[20:26] <brainwash> kb shortcut related
[22:24] <ochosi> evening
[22:31] <ochosi> brainwash: lagging behind on the greeter quite a bit currently in terms of merges etc, too busy with other stuff. but i/we will get to it
[22:31] <ochosi> as 1.8.5 still hasn't landed in trusty yet, i'm not sure i wanna do another (tiring) effort of backporting a single small patch/fix
[22:32] <ochosi> but i won't veto it, if bluesabre feels like it
[22:33] <brainwash> maybe with other potential fixes somewhat later, 1.8.6
[22:34] <brainwash> we got plenty of time left with 14.04 :)
[22:34] <brainwash> do you have any idea, why the greeter package does not depend on lightdm?
[22:38] <ochosi> hm, not really
[22:38] <ochosi> the original packaging wasnt done by us, we just kept what was there
[22:38] <ochosi> i never saw a need for it i guess
[22:39] <brainwash> true, if no one complains, then there is nothing to fix :)
[22:39] <ochosi> yeah, if there are problems that arise from it, we'll deal with it
[22:45] <Unit193> forestpiskie: OK, so added in that feature ---v
[22:45] <Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
[22:45] <xubutrello>   ->  1. Suite B Call (id: 15) due: 2014-06-09 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
[23:26] <ochosi> btw, i never thought about this, but when we get rid of indicator-power, we won't have any battery status in the greeter/lockscreen anymore
[23:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: ^
[23:27] <ochosi> unless we add something builtin ourselves
[23:28] <bluesabre> shouldn't be so hard to implement
[23:28] <bluesabre> there's a file that keeps track of battery stats and such, right?
[23:28] <ochosi> probably not so hard, but kinda duplication of effort
[23:29] <brainwash> I was about to implement this, because the indicator support was broken in the greeter :)
[23:29] <ochosi> well go ahead and do it now then ;)
[23:29] <bluesabre> +1
[23:29] <ochosi> frankly, i'm not sure we really want/need indicators in the greeter
[23:29] <brainwash> but why do you want to remove -power?
[23:29] <ochosi> they seem to be a source of myriad problems
[23:29] <bluesabre> I'll start merging things soon
[23:30] <ochosi> because we have an xfpm battery plugin for the panel now
[23:30] <ochosi> or: we will have one in the next release
[23:30] <bluesabre> cool
[23:30] <bluesabre> so now we just have to add notification-panel support
[23:30] <bluesabre> more work!
[23:30] <bluesabre> :D
[23:30] <ochosi> nope
[23:30] <ochosi> it's not a systray icon anymore
[23:30] <bluesabre> oh
[23:30] <bluesabre> what is it now?
[23:30] <ochosi> it's a regular plugin that you can add/remove
[23:31] <bluesabre> oh
[23:31] <ochosi> and place anywhere on the panel
[23:31] <brainwash> but there is already a battery panel plugin or?
[23:31] <bluesabre> eh
[23:31] <ochosi> yes, but this one is integrated with xfpm
[23:31] <ochosi> makes much more sense
[23:31] <bluesabre> that makes it less accessible for !xfce
[23:31] <ochosi> yeah, but lubuntu is going to qt
[23:31] <Unit193> ochosi: I'm proposing the merge of core now, want to be a reviewer?
[23:32] <ochosi> Unit193: i can be
[23:33] <brainwash> mmh, once unity7 is outdated what will happen with the current indicator stack?
[23:33] <ochosi> bluesabre: not sure !xfce uses xfpm, we'll wait for the outcry because of the loss of systray icon i guess
[23:34] <ochosi> yeah, who knows what'll happen to it
[23:34] <bluesabre> :)
[23:34] <ochosi> nobody in fact
[23:34] <ochosi> which is why i want us to get as independent from it as we can
[23:35] <ochosi> will be hard to provide real alternatives to indicator-application though
[23:36] <bluesabre> partly depends on what ubuntu wants to do with core applications
[23:36] <bluesabre> most of what ubuntu depends on is gnome stuff
[23:36] <bluesabre> which, most sane people want to escape, but they really are the best available tools
[23:37] <bluesabre> since everything else starts with k
[23:37] <bluesabre> and tend to invite friends
[23:37] <ochosi> yeah, i guess
[23:37] <ochosi> i think ubuntu will create/use its own core ap stack
[23:37] <ochosi> app
[23:38] <ochosi> they're already trying the "convergence of desktop and mobile apps"
[23:38] <bluesabre> yeah
[23:38] <Unit193> Meh, lp-propose doesn't work. :/
[23:39] <bluesabre> honestly, the converged apps are starting to look really nice
[23:39] <bluesabre> and I'll probably pick up an ubuntu phone once they're available
[23:39] <ali1234> the next big unity stack change will be the move to Qt
[23:40] <ochosi> yeah, which will mean no more custom gtk3 hacks i guess
[23:40] <ochosi> and plain upstream gtk3 madness :)
[23:40] <bluesabre> yup
[23:40] <bluesabre> brace yourselves ;)
[23:40] <ali1234> maybe we should just give up on Gtk and join lxqt project
[23:41] <ali1234> port everything to Qt
[23:41]  * ochosi senses duplication of effort
[23:41] <ali1234> gtk doesn't seem to be useful or relevant any more
[23:41] <brainwash> or join forces with the MATE project :)
[23:41] <ochosi> we can always just use any other desktop instead, but luckily the world isn't falling apart just yet
[23:42] <ochosi> ali1234: well unity quickly went for qt, i think also because of its usability in the mobile space, or why would you say gtk isn't relevant anymore?
[23:43] <ali1234> i say it because gtk seems to only exist for the benefit of gnome now
[23:43] <ochosi> also, i use gtk every day and i get my stuff done with it :)
[23:43] <ochosi> actually they're starting to take elementary seriously
[23:43] <ochosi> partly also though, because their platforms look very similar :D
[23:43] <ali1234> no, they're not. what is actually happening is elementary is becoming more and more like gnome shell in every release
[23:44] <ochosi> well, "every release" is easy to say when there has only been one ;)
[23:44] <bluesabre> (2)
[23:44] <ochosi> luna and?
[23:44] <bluesabre> jupiter
[23:44] <ochosi> ah right
[23:44] <ochosi> i forgot
[23:44] <bluesabre> :)
[23:45] <ochosi> i think it'd be easier to complain in #gtk about all of this if xfce were already gtk3
[23:45] <ochosi> maybe we're better off for now with it not being gtk3 yet, but without being there, chances of not being heard are even lower
[23:46] <brainwash> isn't it too late for this anyway? gtk3 is pretty old already, why would they listen to Xfce?
[23:47] <ochosi> well history tells you that they hardly ever did
[23:47] <ochosi> i have no idea how much xfce devs tried to take influence
[23:47] <brainwash> zero?
[23:47] <ochosi> ofourdan is working at red hat as far as i know, so no idea why that never helped :)
[23:48] <ochosi> brainwash: i really don't know
[23:48] <brainwash> maybe he got brainwashed by LP
[23:48] <bluesabre> you know all about that
[23:48] <ali1234> in fact unity didn't quickly go for qt... they had a qt port which they abandoned once already
[23:49] <bluesabre> yup
[23:49] <ochosi> right, they went for qt several times :)
[23:49]  * ochosi is saying it all wrong tonight
[23:50] <ali1234> in my opinion xfce has bigger problems that gtk2 vs gtk3... the panel is in bad shape for one
[23:51] <ali1234> the plugin system has serious problems with events
[23:52] <ochosi> there are many places where bugs should be fixed in xfce
[23:52] <ochosi> too many unmaintained components
[23:53] <ochosi> Unit193: while i'm generally +1 on the core MR, didn't you want to organize testing/feedback with elfy?
[23:54] <Unit193> ochosi: It'd be easier to do that after it's merged, I think that was the idea at least.
[23:54] <ochosi> ali1234: i think the only way you can effectively conquer that problem is by becoming a maintainer of some component and start fixing it up
[23:54] <ochosi> doesn't have to be xfwm4, which generally is running okay
[23:54] <Unit193> ochosi: The xubuntu-core task can't be created until it's actually part of the archive, so you have to pretend.
[23:54] <ochosi> as i said, there are so many unmaintained projects there...
[23:55] <ali1234> the problems with panel run deeper than that... they are design flaws
[23:55] <ochosi> heh, that you'll have to discuss with NSchermer
[23:55] <ochosi> i remember there being a long fight on the ML between him and brian about the plugin system when nick rewrote the panel
[23:55] <ali1234> these are big problems and it's going to be xfce 5 if i start trying to fix them
[23:56] <bluesabre> at this point, anything might land for xfce 4.12
[23:56] <bluesabre> :)
[23:56] <ochosi> hehe, +1
[23:56] <ochosi> Unit193: wasn't there an iso already?
[23:56] <ali1234> no, really. it would break all existing plugins
[23:57] <bluesabre> ah
[23:57] <ochosi> then do it with the gtk3 port
[23:57] <ochosi> that will also break all existing plugins
[23:57] <Unit193> ochosi: Created using the hacky setup, but merge can wait for approval (and merged later) until tomorrow.  I see that as the easiest way to test, but yeah elfy may disagree.
[23:58] <ochosi> Unit193: ok, then if you don't mind, let's discuss it with elfy tomorrow
[23:59] <Unit193> Yep, sounded like a good idea.  (Wasn't trying to cut out testing, just that testing comes after it's in. :P )
[23:59] <ochosi> hehe sure
[23:59] <ochosi> i wasn't suggesting that
[23:59] <ochosi> i just wanted to know where we're heading