[03:25] <rick_h_> hope CHC went well, almost all packed wheee
[10:34] <cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, we had mrgoodcat and waf there
[10:35] <cmaloney> Though we ducked out early because the prof wasn't there. :)
[12:43] <mrgoodcat> it was one of my most productive chc meetings too
[12:44] <mrgoodcat> i almost did homework
[13:00] <brousch_> Heh, my friend is supposed to give a talk about using TrueCrypt tonight at WMLUG
[13:07] <jrwren> lol
[13:08] <jrwren> my money is on someone picking it up.
[13:08] <jrwren> i didn't read the details about them folding
[13:10] <jrwren> iirc snowden taught greenwald to use truecrypt when greenwald went to russia
[13:23] <mrgoodcat> check out the pretty new haskell website. not done yet but shows promise http://haskell-lang.org/
[13:23] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/eLEsq1 - Haskell Programming Language
[13:24] <mrgoodcat> the current haskell.org kinda sucks...
[13:29] <mrgoodcat> here's the blog post where the creator explains his motivations/methodologies http://chrisdone.com/posts/haskell-lang
[13:29] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Yw2G3a - An alternative Haskell home page
[13:33] <brousch_> Are there any things I know of that are written in Haskell?
[13:38] <mrgoodcat> well that's a difficult question to answer...
[13:39] <mrgoodcat> pandoc?
[13:39] <mrgoodcat> if you're asking a question like that the answer is probably no
[13:40] <brousch_> I am wondering if it's been used for any real project or if it's just an academic language
[13:42] <mrgoodcat> ah i understand. http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry
[13:42] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N3OIn - Haskell in industry - HaskellWiki
[13:42] <mrgoodcat> notably, at&t and some banks
[13:43] <cmaloney> Pretty sure the answer to most languages that you've heard of is they're being used somewhere.
[13:43] <cmaloney> Heck, I'm sure someone out there is using Brainfuck in production
[13:56] <Havenstance> mrgoodcat, it appears that using community edition software in a production environment isn't a good idea. Boss found that out the hard way yesterday despite my trying to convince him otherwise from the start :)
[13:58] <mrgoodcat> Havenstance: what happened?
[13:59] <mrgoodcat> hope i didn't get you in trouble... :/
[13:59] <mrgoodcat> cmaloney: lol i sincerely hope so
[13:59] <Havenstance> nah, you didn't get me in trouble :)
[14:00] <Havenstance> he had me put the community edition on it and yesterday it was complaining about upgrading to ubuntu 14.04
[14:00] <Havenstance> his dumb ass clicked go
[14:00] <Havenstance> dropped a nuclear bomb on the entire system
[14:00] <Havenstance> we shared a good laugh once things calmed down :)
[14:01] <Havenstance> mainly because watching the clerks run around like chickens with no heads was extremely amusing
[14:02] <mrgoodcat> comm edition of zentyal?
[14:02] <mrgoodcat> how did you fix?
[14:02] <Havenstance> I haven't yet lol. We put a router in place of the box to hold over until we get it fixed
[14:03] <Havenstance> I had xubuntu 13.10 on it for the GUI that worked to make him happy there. Then I put zentyal over that and it worked great but xubuntu kept complaining that xubuntu 14.04 was out and watned to upgrade. I told him doing it would break the system just to click ignore cuz I didn't know how to make it stop
[14:03] <Havenstance> Probably was an easy setting or something well he mistakenly clicked upgrade and gave it the password and it proceeded to Fubar itself
[14:04] <Havenstance> he's since paid for the latest edition of ClearOS Professional and is having me run with that. I don't know anything about it but I suppose I didn't know anything about zentyal either and now I at least have some terminal experience under my belt to help figure things out.
[14:05] <Havenstance> but good news is if I need help with it. I can call the support line and they will walk me through it. So that's a blessing I suppose
[14:06] <Havenstance> We are putting it on two machines though and going to keep one as a redundancy that just sits there until we need it.
[14:09] <Havenstance> the guy might be picky as hell but he's smart as a whip he's the one that threw the router at me when it happened said pull that out and throw this in. then I had to change IPs on all POS machines and the servers for them.... It made for an interesting hour to say the least lol
[16:56] <cmaloney> Happy Afternoon
[17:00] <greg-g> not yet
[17:00]  * greg-g slept in
[19:38] <mrgoodcat> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/05/openssl-to-get-a-security-audit-and-two-full-time-developers/
[19:38] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/dX3LB8 - OpenSSL to get a security audit and two full-time developers | Ars Technica
[19:46] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: About time
[19:47] <cmaloney> It's interesting how something that pretty much powers the entirey security of the OSS online presence was pretty much completely volunteer.
[19:49] <greg-g> interesting but not surprising
[19:49] <greg-g> I get more and more cynical the longer I work at FLOSS orgs.
[19:50] <greg-g> WMF's infra is 99.9999% FLOSS (only our server BIOS, Juniper routers, the one NetApp server, and MaxMind GeoIP database are proprietary), so we're the canary for a lot of things.
[19:50] <greg-g> (that doesn't count developer side things like laptops, or google docs in use by other parts of the org, etc)
[19:51] <cmaloney> greg-g: Oh definitely not surprising
[19:51] <cmaloney> greg-g: cynincal in what regard?
[19:51] <greg-g> I wonder if my talk on this topic will be accepted at the next Wikimania in London
[19:52] <greg-g> cmaloney: mostly pragmatic that there aren't always maintainers of every bit of software we run, so we need to step up and learn/fix things other people wrote all the time.
[19:52] <greg-g> the hard part is the "we" in that sentence is mostly just my team, not the other teams in engineering
[19:53] <greg-g> iow: my team is a part of "Platform" whereas all the other teams are "Feature teams" aka 'writing new greenfield shit'
[19:54] <greg-g> there's a good quote from our team tech lead: Platform team. We do all the boring things. Well, we don't think they're boring.
[19:54] <cmaloney> heh
[19:56] <cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I think many organizations don't realize that OSS is more than just downloading someone else's work
[19:56] <cmaloney> there's also a stewardship component
[19:56] <greg-g> sometimes it can be, most times if you're really invested in it, it's much much more
[19:56] <greg-g> yep
[19:57] <cmaloney> It's pushing patches upstream
[19:57] <cmaloney> and making sure to file reports if something breaks
[19:57] <cmaloney> And stepping up if something doesn't get fixed
[19:57] <greg-g> luckily we do upstream'ing right, it'd be hard if I worked some place that either didn't push things upstream or was bad about releasing/accepting patches to our code
[19:58] <cmaloney> Yeah, I've been fortunate with the last few jobs (minus one) for releasing code upstream.
[19:58]  * greg-g nods
[19:59] <greg-g> Every now and then I pinch myself. My only real jobs (3 at this point, after grad school) have been very privileged in this respect
[19:59] <greg-g> (being a camp counselor and fast food worker in college doesn't count ;) )
[20:00] <cmaloney> I have never done more with my life after smacking cans at Meijer
[20:00] <cmaloney> that was the height of my career.
[20:00] <greg-g> smacking cans?
[20:00] <greg-g> busking?
[20:01] <cmaloney> No, working at the bottle return pre-self-service
[20:01] <greg-g> ahhh
[20:03] <cmaloney> It's one of those jobs (like elevator operator) that you'll have to explain to folks what that was.
[20:04] <greg-g> :)
[20:04] <greg-g> funny, we still have door men ;)
[20:05] <brousch_> cmaloney: My 6 year old does that job now:P
[20:05] <brousch_> I'm sure he gets much more fun out of it too
[20:06] <cmaloney> prepping him for the wild world of button-pushing, eh? :)
[20:07]  * cmaloney just got this shiver for what the office of 10 years from now will look like
[20:07] <cmaloney> "Here's your desk, and here's your tablet"
[20:08] <cmaloney> http://blog.logitech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tablet-Keyboard_BTY2_A_Mac_72_dpi.jpg <- workstation
[20:08] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/C6v9Tj - image/jpeg
[20:09] <brousch_> cmaloney: I carry that around with me more often than my laptop. Of course it's a Nexus 10, but close enough
[20:10] <brousch_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AG0D61O/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[20:10] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TIasf - Amazon.com: Poetic KeyBook Removable Bluetooth Keyboard Case for Google Nexus 10 Black (With Auto Sleep/Wake Function) (3 Year Warranty from Poetic): Computers & Accessories
[20:10] <cmaloney> http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/ssio03.jpg
[20:10] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qR3VNi - image/jpeg
[20:10] <brousch_> If my PyOhio talk is accepted, I'll be presenting from it
[20:10] <cmaloney> There's your desktop machine. ;)
[20:11] <cmaloney> brousch_: So it's a laptop with a crappy hinge. ;)
[20:11] <brousch_> The keyboard is magnetic, so it can be moved anywhere
[20:11] <cmaloney> ... crappy hinge.
[20:12] <greg-g> :)
[20:12] <brousch_> :P
[20:13] <brousch_> The keyboard is the closest I've found to being "normal"
[20:13] <brousch_> Just a little bit of out-of-place in the lower right corner
[20:18] <mrgoodcat> i'm not worried about what the office will look like in ten years
[20:18] <mrgoodcat> you probably didn't think anyone could be productive on a laptop in 2004
[20:19] <brousch_> Office will be everyone using a 39" 8K touchscreen dumb terminal
[20:20] <greg-g> we'll go back to dumb terminals?
[20:20] <cmaloney> We aren't?
[20:20] <greg-g> or do you mean "fat clients" eg chromebooks
[20:20] <brousch_> Yes
[20:20] <brousch_> fat client is a better term
[20:21] <cmaloney> I'd argue the web is already the "smart terminal"
[20:21] <greg-g> dumb terminal to me means nothing on it other than a remote desktop-type thing
[20:21] <greg-g> yeah
[20:21] <greg-g> there's a good xkcd (of course) about the phone app analogy
[20:21] <greg-g> phone app vs webpage
[20:21] <brousch_> Damn, everything really will be written in Javascript
[20:22] <cmaloney> a-yep
[20:22] <greg-g> none of that crap coffeescript
[20:22] <cmaloney> It's like realizing everyone was writing in Basic
[20:23] <cmaloney> But a version of Basic that actively screws with variable types
[20:23] <cmaloney> No, wait, that is Basic.
[20:23] <cmaloney> ;)
[20:23] <cmaloney> Shitty floating point.
[20:23] <cmaloney> Hmm... starting to think Brendan Eich may have been a Microsoft plant all along. :)
[20:24] <greg-g> hah
[20:24] <mrgoodcat> you don't think javascript will ever be replaced?
[20:24] <mrgoodcat> i think that seems a bit unlikely
[20:25] <brousch_> It's been around forever, and nothing has replaced it yet
[20:26] <brousch_> You would need MS+Google+Mozilla to agree on something
[20:26] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think it will be replaced... by something that compiles down to Javascript
[20:26] <mrgoodcat> lol
[20:26] <mrgoodcat> i think something will not replace it but maybe be in addition to it
[20:26] <cmaloney> It's almost prophetic how it was named
[20:27] <mrgoodcat> and eventually everyone will stop using it
[20:27] <mrgoodcat> then it will die
[20:27] <brousch_> cmaloney: Sounds like I should pay more attention to pyjamas and its ilk
[20:27] <cmaloney> It's like a Java JVM that is scripted.
[20:27] <mrgoodcat> VERY VERY SLOWLY
[20:27] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Like FORTRAN
[20:27] <brousch_> I think VBScript is still around in ancient proprietary webapps
[20:30] <cmaloney> I'm surprised VBScript still runs
[21:26] <rick_h_> ugh the bugs!!!
[21:27] <greg-g> rick_h_: hey, are least you aren't dealing with a site issue today!
[21:27] <greg-g> https://identi.ca/greg
[21:27] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/EVPM3j - Greg Grossmeier - Identi.ca
[21:28] <rick_h_> greg-g: doh, deploy fail?
[21:28] <rick_h_> greg-g: oops
[21:28] <greg-g> actually no!
[21:28] <greg-g> ops puppet config fail
[21:28] <rick_h_> doh
[21:28] <rick_h_> time for juju charms :P
[21:28] <greg-g> so, not my team!
[21:28] <greg-g> hah, right
[21:28] <greg-g> no offense, but....
[21:29] <greg-g> ;)
[21:29] <rick_h_> just poking/kidding
[21:29] <greg-g> I know
[21:29] <greg-g> complexity is hard
[21:29] <rick_h_> yep yep
[22:15] <greg-g> rick_h_: bees?