[00:06] http://paste.openstack.org/show/fUAnvXhRHYcO0v7kxmPw/ - http://paste.openstack.org/show/yACaC0Bxs7v4vR09QAaX [00:08] mhm [00:08] now write it in a file. [00:11] The point of that is so it matches what's in the makefile now. [00:11] right. [00:12] well that's good. [00:14] Now, how do you want to handle `cd` and where it expects to be run from? :P [00:14] no idea. [00:16] OK, so where's the file you want me to feed this into? [00:17] huhu [00:17] here's what i know i want [00:17] http://paste.openstack.org/show/390DO9UEoWDKcGyOURTR/ [00:17] that in index.xml. [00:17] Also, I know it's not supposed to be === fi === :P [00:18] and note the href value [00:18] that's where the translators file should be. [00:18] i don' [00:18] i don't really mind where it is [00:18] as long as it's not in the final installated files :) [00:19] that paste could go to line 34 in index.xml [00:19] this is the "do not avoid printing the paragraph if there is no translators" way [00:19] but i think we should start with that [00:20] because everything is set to work like that [00:26] Well we were thinking by language, weren't we? [00:26] hmm, right [00:27] it's not much different anyway [00:27] this way we'll always get the paragraph there [00:27] but let's get it working like this first. [00:28] I did, https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/build/desktop-guide/ln-idp43644284.html but it matters what way we go for a couple reasons... [00:29] elaborate [00:29] Because of this: C/translators.xml:2: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document [00:29] [00:29] ^ [00:30] what's the full contents of that file? [00:30] http://paste.openstack.org/show/x6M00aJ4hnYUoKZ35q6c/ or take out the para lines and you get the same dealio. [00:31] as i said, the includeable file must have a single wrapping element [00:31] so no para + itemizedlist [00:31] but what do we need the para for anyway? [00:31] Alrighty, so just sort and uniq? :P [00:32] the user should know he's reading the finnish translation. [00:32] * knome shrugs [00:32] what's wrong with the default order? [00:34] http://paste.openstack.org/show/gGVRjAvN9PmhmDLeVT4C count the knome. :P [00:36] uhh... [00:36] wait [00:36] we do not want to show them *all* in *all* translations [00:36] just pt in pt [00:36] and fi in fi [00:36] Hrm, well that's fun. [00:37] how so? we're already iterating through the languages one by one [00:38] in both "ends" [00:48] Oh gosh this is annoying. >_< [00:48] * Unit193 waits for knome's proposal. [00:48] for what? :P [00:49] How to do it. [00:50] well, you can save files like translators-fi.xml [00:50] then when you are going through the translations themself, just get the lang code and cp translators-fi.xml translators.xml ? [00:51] Not the problem. [00:51] what *is* ?:) [00:54] OK, I think I'm going to revert back to a clean working tree and hope the fix comes through bzr. :P [00:56] wuz fix? [00:57] tell me what's your problem? [00:57] the included file not validating? [00:57] Parser errors out the wazoo, file isn't getting included but exists, etc, etc... [00:58] make sure you don't have empty lines [01:02] I don't think I see anything that should be broken, but yet. [01:03] can send me the files. [01:03] I don't understand this, I should ignore it and hope it goes away... [01:03] i can look at them. [01:07] http://paste.openstack.org/show/TnJ23AYsZnGDS84wCZbm - http://paste.openstack.org/show/o3qHnBBdb6Pr3nzMO6OB what's broken? [01:12] So wait, the translations are broken from a clean tree. \o/ [01:13] uummph? [01:16] it's 4am, maybe i should look at this tomorrow... [01:17] i just can't follow the stuff at all, and it's most definitely not a problem at your end... [01:17] Well, some of it has to be, the translation credits have to be I think. [01:17] OK, good night. We should just pull slickymaster into it. ;) [01:17] have to be what? [01:17] Some of the problem has to be my end, credits should work. [01:18] dunno [01:18] let's look at it tomorrow [01:19] Hah, yeeeey. :P [01:19] i'm sure we'll get it fixed :) [01:20] Hah! Just as long as I don't have to be docs lead, or mess too much with Makefiles... [01:20] you don't :P [01:20] though definitions of "too much" might differ [01:20] * knome hides [01:46] i think i need to go to sleep. [01:46] good night! [01:51] Noskcaj: you should offer to package https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407380 [01:51] Debian bug 407380 in wnpp "ITP: xfce4-eyes-plugin -- eyes plugin for Xfce panel" [Wishlist,Open] [04:24] Logan_, Yeah, probably. I'll put it into the debian svn, but corsac is busy with other stuff this month [04:50] brainwash: I did remove xfce4-indicator-plugin - I believe it should have unity as a dependency. [04:53] xfce4-indicator-plugin should have unity as a dep?? Heck to the no.. [05:29] wat [09:01] knome: do you think that re-adding the "settings" category to the menu structure is valid option? bug 1310264 [09:01] bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264 [09:02] it would make the settings manager button redundant [09:07] ochosi: Welcome back. [09:07] thanks [09:07] still no remote login [09:07] what did i miss? [09:08] Mainly docs stuff, also link to bug 1310264 [09:08] bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264 [09:10] ochosi: simply add the settings category and remove the settings-manager button? [09:10] or just keep the button [09:11] brainwash: Hello? [09:11] gry: yes? [09:12] gry: did you resolve your problem? [09:12] brainwash: Xubuntu is not shipped with unity by default, is it? And it is shipped with xfce4-indicator-something by default, isn't it? [09:12] xubuntu does include unity's indicator stack by default [09:12] yes on both gry [09:13] brainwash: Why is the unity indicator stack being included, out of curiousity? I don't have unity installed, and some apps didn't move over to the unity indicator. [09:13] xfce4-indicator-plugin is a wrapper to display these unity indicators in Xubuntu [09:14] I mean: what problem is being solved here? Why not stick to one thing instead of 2? [09:14] it has been this way for many cycles [09:15] starting with 14.04 we now support the new gtk3 indicators [09:15] I've unfortunately been out of the loop since 12.04 or whatever that is. I just updated to 14.04, and you added a new indicator which has something to do with unity, but apps keep trying to move over to it despite unity not being installed. [09:16] Some apps (notes, for example) also fail to move over. I don't think unity and gtk3 are that closely related - you can rewrite notification area in gtk3 if you like. [09:16] You don't need to do it in utterly overcomplicated way like this. [09:17] if an application supports the app indicator, it will be displayed in the indicator area, otherwise it will use the fallback solution (notification area) [09:17] Okay, so I need to figure out what to do. Could you please tell me what is the role of unity in the new gtk3-supportive indicator applet. [09:18] we only use some of unity's indicators [09:19] What should I read to understand what unity does? And how complex is it to have notes in the new indicator applet? [09:19] so it's not the whole unity desktop environment [09:19] "What should I read to understand what unity does? " means things like "can it work with gtk3 without unity's indicators" and things like that. [09:19] you will have to provide a patch for the notes apps [09:21] basically there is no problem, because we include both indicator and notification area, so all tray icons should show up [09:21] brainwash: Which all do, except Quassel. [09:21] For new users yes - old users will upgrade and only have the notification area only. Not all of them know how to come to irc and ask questions, or how to add a second applet. [09:21] oh, what about other QT apps? [09:22] If they support the newer API, sure. VLC does fine, as does (mostly) Skype. [09:22] gry: right, migrating user configurations is a permanent problem [09:22] s/problem/feature/ some, including me, would say. [09:23] old user accounts won't switch to whisker menu either, etc [09:23] I would think you're trying to make things compatible. I.e. if you can write some more core for notification area, do that - it will be less confusing? [09:23] core -^code [09:24] as of now we are glad that things work how they work [09:25] Sorry? [09:25] and like I said before, you can always remove the indicator area from the panel, it's optional [09:25] It's not. When I remove it, the apps don't figure out how to put themselves to notification area. [09:26] stock Xfce does not ship the indicator area, so it is optional [09:26] Okay. I uninstalled xfce4-indicator-plugin -- I will check what works and what doesn't, after I log out and log in. [09:26] right, please do [09:27] brainwash: i'm in favor of adding the category to the menu, but it will be a regression for those using the traditional appmenu [09:27] Do we need the website links, still? [09:28] Okay, it works now, everything is in notification area. Where did the indicator applet come from? Is it builtin? If not, I'll blame user error.. [09:28] You can also remove indicator-* packages if you'd like, and some other libs. [09:29] ochosi: will people with the classic app menu complain about the extra category? [09:29] ? [09:31] gry: xfce4-indicator-plugin is only the panel plugin, you can also remove the actual indicator packages (indicator-*) [09:31] I understood that. Thanks. The panel plugin is not builtin? I am trying to understand where it came from. [09:32] it's an external panel plugin [09:32] or what do you mean exactly? [09:32] external panel plugins are shipped in their own packages [09:33] the notification area (internal plugin) is part of xfce4-panel [09:38] anyway folks, my connection continues to be shaky as always, if important stuff comes up, just email me [09:39] ochosi: Perhaps email Lyz with requested login details? [09:48] brainwash: I guess it would make sense for ubuntu to wait for xfce to go gtk3. Before it does, all apps -- including gtk3 ones -- appear to be happy with gtk2. Unity-based things look to be a waste of time, xfce folks would get to it in a compatible way so any app that talks to xfce would magically talk to a new notification area -- that's how I define compatibility. [09:49] Unit193: it just feels like a possibly useless effort, and i can't even get/access my irssi profile folder for the moment, so i'd have to do that all over again (=waste of time) [09:49] That's what my expectations are, anyway. I also grepped the gzipped logs and I see that I upgraded the indicator plugin recently, but I didn't install it myself, so something was shipped with it and didn't uninstall it properly (I had gnome-ish ubuntu desktop installed before). [09:50] So I just see that it's not built-in like you said and hope that it'll be available as an extra ever since, but if other users ask, it should be interesting where they got it from. I dunno where I did. [09:51] it should be installed by default if xubuntu-desktop is installed [09:51] it's part of the xubuntu experience [09:51] and works fine for most people (we did much testing) [09:52] Unit193, i thought we dropped the links already. [09:52] brainwash: "Works fine for most people" to have two borders around two different applets when only one would suffice? How is it better than using the old one? [09:53] knome: xubuntu-default-settings: /usr/share/xubuntu/applications/xubuntu-website.desktop Still. [09:53] Unit193, i noticed the same, but at least they are not in the main menu. [09:53] i mean, the root level [09:53] or are they? :) [09:53] gry: sadly this discussion seems to lead nowhere :/ [09:54] gry, with the old way, not all of the indicators worked. [09:54] gry, if you are willing to patch that (and make it work with gtk3), it's very welcome [09:54] gry, otherwise, we will keep using what we use now since at least all the things work now. [09:54] gry, if you don't like that, you can use the old way and miss some of the indicators [09:55] I don't know where else to ask, I need some more details. If you give me some thoughts on what did not work, I'll check and consider fixing. [09:55] gry, or fix the old stack. [09:55] I'm just conservative. I don't like new things, especially if they're builtin and the entity of problems they address is empty. [09:56] While xfce folks would convert their stuff to gtk3 smoother anyway. [09:56] I'd be happy to stop complaining and fix the old stack - what are its problems? [09:57] i'm not technical enough to point out the exact problems, but others can, and ultimately, it's all on the logs. [09:57] knome: They are. [09:57] I would probably look at some sort of bug tracker but I've never found launchpad intuitive without some sort of kicks [09:58] Unit193, oh. not the whiskermenu favs? :) [09:58] I don't use whisker. [09:58] it would have to be in xfce's bug tracker probably, but I've not used that either [09:58] Unit193, they aren't [09:58] Unit193, so i guess it's a good idea actually... those who keep on using the old menu will still see them. [09:59] Meh. [09:59] gry, i appreciate that you are saying you are willing to help, but seriously, i don't know how much time i should use to help you if you can't seem to be comfortable using a bug tracker [09:59] Unit193, i'm also with dropping them. [09:59] gry: xubuntu 12.04 already ships with xfce4-indicator-plugin (for gtk2 indicators) and the notification area [09:59] err, good. [10:00] gry: so having both areas in the panel is nothing new [10:00] knome: it's more of "which tracker to use" than "how to use it" -- I'm not very familiar with whose problems to fix, distro's ones or xfce's ones [10:01] knome: Oh, and anyone else I should ping/add to the merge proposal for -core? [10:01] also, if you feel that I'm too lazy, feel free to ask me to sleep more; I'm not sleeping well at all [10:01] Unit193, well you probably should be corresponding mainly with ochosi now :) [10:01] brainwash: I'm not looking at new things that fix unknown problems before I give up fixing unknown problems [10:01] knome: Already set him as reviewer and talked to him, grabbing you because :online: :P [10:01] ^ see [10:01] :P [10:02] ochosi: Alrighty, anyone else I should snag/ping/add to the -core merge proposal for reviewing? [10:03] gry: so I guess that you should start with porting Xfce to gtk3 and then somehow merge the indicator plugin into the notification area [10:04] yup, I think the xfce folks are doing something in that direction already [10:04] they do, but they need help to speed up the process :) [10:04] without using unity stuff - so it's up to fixing old applet and then writing it in new gtk3 [10:05] yes I agree [10:05] I'll look at what they're doing and shout back if I have issues, that should be a decent way [10:06] Unit193: no, i wanted to talk to elfy but couldn't get a hold of him yet (or maybe he couldn't get a hold of me) [10:06] Cool, so I'll just sit tight, no problem. === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash [10:19] bluesabre: what's the status on the lls and xfpm uploads btw? [10:20] I think they're both in utopic now and ready to SRU/backport to trusty [10:20] the SRU hasn't been filed yet i suppose? [10:21] that's correct [10:21] i see... [10:21] I haven't had a chance to do much the past two days [10:21] sure, not blaming you in case you thought that ;) [10:21] was hoping to catch up tonight or tomorrow morning ;) [10:21] i've been a bit disconnected [10:21] just don't wanna lose track too much on this [10:25] yeah, I'm on top of it :) [10:30] not being connected makes it a bit hard to talk to people :p [10:31] here we see the perfect example of the IRC-centric thinking/workflow ;) [10:31] trello ftw [10:46] ochosi: can you please take a look at bug 1324811 [10:46] bug 1324811 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Please disable by default "Use the mouse wheel on the desktop to switch workspaces"" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324811 [10:47] ochosi: I'm about for 30 minutes now - then back in a couple of hours [10:49] elfy: just read your email [10:49] so yeah, i guess it's easiest then if we merge core so testers can do what they always do [10:50] yea - that would be favourite [10:50] that's what Unit193 and I discussed for this [10:50] ok [10:50] i'm fine with that, so let's merge it [10:50] k - cool [10:59] elfy, Unit193: ok, it's merged (in case the previous one didn't catch you :)) [11:00] ochosi: ok - thanks [11:00] I'll check that out soon and then Unit193 and I can come up with some testing plan [11:05] hey elfy, knome [11:05] hello slickymasterWork [11:06] next tuesday meeting plan is all setup [11:07] just a question though, id the Debian liaison issue been dropped [11:07] ochosi: ^^ [11:07] s/id(is [11:07] pretty sure Unit193 is that [11:07] today was the day for anyone to say anything afaik [11:08] so, it's done with, for sure [11:08] actually 2 days ago [11:08] just need to XPL to do the 'officialising' it I think :) [11:09] ok elfy, thanks for the heads up on that [11:09] that's my understanding of it all at least :) [11:10] np, I'll bring it up anway [11:10] if nothing it will server to make it official [11:10] suspect it will be an Announcement rather than anything else [11:11] yes [11:11] wandering now - bbl [11:11] until then elfy [11:12] lunch time for me -> [11:16] slickymaster: yes, the debian liaison issue is dropped, i'll announce Unit193 on the ML shortly [11:33] brainwash: i did take a look at that bugreport now, i have no idea whether that takes precedence (it would be a bit silly if it did though) [11:34] ochosi: thanks, I have no clue either, I just assume that it works just fine [12:36] lol ochosi, you're really mimicking me [12:36] are you sure we're not using the same ISP ;) [14:38] clear [14:41] with expected showers [14:44] tomorrow: Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. [20:00] Logan_: How do you feel about pushing a NEW package in for Xubuntu? pkg-xfce isn't really interested in it. [20:04] Unit193, Which package? [20:05] Noskcaj: It'd not be seeded, but xfdashboard. Not for sure we want it available, but might. [20:05] ok [20:07] I already have all the packaging done, except for some description changes. [20:31] Unit193: sure [20:31] why doesn't Debian want it? [20:31] Noskcaj: While you're bumping people, you should bump Matthias Klose about parsedatetime, it's a little broken. [20:31] Logan_: I think it's more just not interested/not enough time. [20:32] Unit193, I will soon. Have to finish this upower stuff first [20:38] Unit193: I'm leaving for NYC now, but I can definitely do it later/tomorrow [20:39] Logan_: Have fun! But this wasn't a thing for this week, just perhaps this cycle. [20:39] kk [20:54] Unit193, parsedatetime is probably fixed in 1.2. I doubt doko would care if you updated it [20:54] It is fixed in 1.2, that's what I'm using. [21:02] Why not make a merge then [21:06] They tend to be a huge pain for something so simple. [21:08] ok [21:12] Noskcaj: Isn't it (LP: #1302963) ? [21:12] Launchpad bug 1302963 in parsedatetime (Ubuntu) "Calendar() class can not be initialized" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302963 [21:21] Unit193, Merge is now up [21:22] So I should delete mine, I see. I targetted the wrong location it seems anyway, meh. [21:22] lp-propose really fails badly now. :/ [21:27] Noskcaj: Do you know why when you branch from lp:ubuntu/parsedatetime, lp-propose wants to merge to lp:parsedatetime? [21:28] nope. Although i don't use lp-propose [21:28] I really like the idea, and it used to work better. :/