[00:06] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/fUAnvXhRHYcO0v7kxmPw/ - http://paste.openstack.org/show/yACaC0Bxs7v4vR09QAaX
[00:08] <knome> mhm
[00:08] <knome> now write it in a file.
[00:11] <Unit193> The point of that is so it matches what's in the makefile now.
[00:11] <knome> right.
[00:12] <knome> well that's good.
[00:14] <Unit193> Now, how do you want to handle `cd` and where it expects to be run from? :P
[00:14] <knome> no idea.
[00:16] <Unit193> OK, so where's the file you want me to feed this into?
[00:17] <knome> huhu
[00:17] <knome> here's what i know i want
[00:17] <knome> http://paste.openstack.org/show/390DO9UEoWDKcGyOURTR/
[00:17] <knome> that in index.xml.
[00:17] <Unit193> Also, I know it's not supposed to be [00:18] <knome> and note the href value
[00:18] <knome> that's where the translators file should be.
[00:18] <knome> i don'
[00:18] <knome> i don't really mind where it is
[00:18] <knome> as long as it's not in the final installated files :)
[00:19] <knome> that paste could go to line 34 in index.xml
[00:19] <knome> this is the "do not avoid printing the paragraph if there is no translators" way
[00:19] <knome> but i think we should start with that
[00:20] <knome> because everything is set to work like that
[00:26] <Unit193> Well we were thinking by language, weren't we?
[00:26] <knome> hmm, right
[00:27] <knome> it's not much different anyway
[00:27] <knome> this way we'll always get the paragraph there
[00:27] <knome> but let's get it working like this first.
[00:28] <Unit193> I did, https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/build/desktop-guide/ln-idp43644284.html but it matters what way we go for a couple reasons...
[00:29] <knome> elaborate
[00:29] <Unit193> Because of this: C/translators.xml:2: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document

[00:29] <Unit193> ^
[00:30] <knome> what's the full contents of that file?
[00:30] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/x6M00aJ4hnYUoKZ35q6c/ or take out the para lines and you get the same dealio.
[00:31] <knome> as i said, the includeable file must have a single wrapping element
[00:31] <knome> so no para + itemizedlist
[00:31] <knome> but what do we need the para for anyway?
[00:31] <Unit193> Alrighty, so just sort and uniq? :P
[00:32] <knome> the user should know he's reading the finnish translation.
[00:32]  * knome shrugs
[00:32] <knome> what's wrong with the default order?
[00:34] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/gGVRjAvN9PmhmDLeVT4C count the knome. :P
[00:36] <knome> uhh...
[00:36] <knome> wait
[00:36] <knome> we do not want to show them *all* in *all* translations
[00:36] <knome> just pt in pt
[00:36] <knome> and fi in fi
[00:36] <Unit193> Hrm, well that's fun.
[00:37] <knome> how so? we're already iterating through the languages one by one
[00:38] <knome> in both "ends"
[00:48] <Unit193> Oh gosh this is annoying. >_<
[00:48]  * Unit193 waits for knome's proposal.
[00:48] <knome> for what? :P
[00:49] <Unit193> How to do it.
[00:50] <knome> well, you can save files like translators-fi.xml
[00:50] <knome> then when you are going through the translations themself, just get the lang code and cp translators-fi.xml translators.xml ?
[00:51] <Unit193> Not the problem.
[00:51] <knome> what *is* ?:)
[00:54] <Unit193> OK, I think I'm going to revert back to a clean working tree and hope the fix comes through bzr. :P
[00:56] <knome> wuz fix?
[00:57] <knome> tell me what's your problem?
[00:57] <knome> the included file not validating?
[00:57] <Unit193> Parser errors out the wazoo, file isn't getting included but exists, etc, etc...
[00:58] <knome> make sure you don't have empty lines
[01:02] <Unit193> I don't think I see anything that should be broken, but yet.
[01:03] <knome> can send me the files.
[01:03] <Unit193> I don't understand this, I should ignore it and hope it goes away...
[01:03] <knome> i can look at them.
[01:07] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/TnJ23AYsZnGDS84wCZbm - http://paste.openstack.org/show/o3qHnBBdb6Pr3nzMO6OB what's broken?
[01:12] <Unit193> So wait, the translations are broken from a clean tree. \o/
[01:13] <knome> uummph?
[01:16] <knome> it's 4am, maybe i should look at this tomorrow...
[01:17] <knome> i just can't follow the stuff at all, and it's most definitely not a problem at your end...
[01:17] <Unit193> Well, some of it has to be, the translation credits have to be I think.
[01:17] <Unit193> OK, good night.  We should just pull slickymaster into it. ;)
[01:17] <knome> have to be what?
[01:17] <Unit193> Some of the problem has to be my end, credits should work.
[01:18] <knome> dunno
[01:18] <knome> let's look at it tomorrow
[01:19] <Unit193> Hah, yeeeey. :P
[01:19] <knome> i'm sure we'll get it fixed :)
[01:20] <Unit193> Hah!  Just as long as I don't have to be docs lead, or mess too much with Makefiles...
[01:20] <knome> you don't :P
[01:20] <knome> though definitions of "too much" might differ
[01:20]  * knome hides
[01:46] <knome> i think i need to go to sleep.
[01:46] <knome> good night!
[01:51] <Logan_> Noskcaj: you should offer to package https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407380
[04:24] <Noskcaj> Logan_, Yeah, probably. I'll put it into the debian svn, but corsac is busy with other stuff this month
[04:50] <gry> brainwash: I did remove xfce4-indicator-plugin - I believe it should have unity as a dependency.
[04:53] <Unit193> xfce4-indicator-plugin should have unity as a dep??  Heck to the no..
[05:29] <Logan_> wat
[09:01] <brainwash> knome: do you think that re-adding the "settings" category to the menu structure is valid option? bug 1310264
[09:02] <brainwash> it would make the settings manager button redundant
[09:07] <Unit193> ochosi: Welcome back.
[09:07] <ochosi> thanks
[09:07] <ochosi> still no remote login
[09:07] <ochosi> what did i miss?
[09:08] <Unit193> Mainly docs stuff, also link to bug 1310264
[09:10] <brainwash> ochosi: simply add the settings category and remove the settings-manager button?
[09:10] <brainwash> or just keep the button
[09:11] <gry> brainwash: Hello?
[09:11] <brainwash> gry: yes?
[09:12] <brainwash> gry: did you resolve your problem?
[09:12] <gry> brainwash: Xubuntu is not shipped with unity by default, is it? And it is shipped with xfce4-indicator-something by default, isn't it?
[09:12] <brainwash> xubuntu does include unity's indicator stack by default
[09:12] <slickymasterWork> yes on both gry 
[09:13] <gry> brainwash: Why is the unity indicator stack being included, out of curiousity? I don't have unity installed, and some apps didn't move over to the unity indicator.
[09:13] <brainwash> xfce4-indicator-plugin is a wrapper to display these unity indicators in Xubuntu
[09:14] <gry> I mean: what problem is being solved here? Why not stick to one thing instead of 2?
[09:14] <brainwash> it has been this way for many cycles
[09:15] <brainwash> starting with 14.04 we now support the new gtk3 indicators
[09:15] <gry> I've unfortunately  been out of the loop since 12.04 or whatever that is. I just updated to 14.04, and you added a new indicator which has something to do with unity, but apps keep trying to move over to it despite unity not being installed.
[09:16] <gry> Some apps (notes, for example) also fail to move over. I don't think unity and gtk3 are that closely related - you can rewrite notification area in gtk3 if you like.
[09:16] <gry> You don't need to do it in utterly overcomplicated way like this.
[09:17] <brainwash> if an application supports the app indicator, it will be displayed in the indicator area, otherwise it will use the fallback solution (notification area)
[09:17] <gry> Okay, so I need to figure out what to do. Could you please tell me what is the role of unity in the new gtk3-supportive indicator applet.
[09:18] <brainwash> we only use some of unity's indicators
[09:19] <gry> What should I read to understand what unity does? And how complex is it to have notes in the new indicator applet?
[09:19] <brainwash> so it's not the whole unity desktop environment 
[09:19] <gry> "What should I read to understand what unity does? " means things like "can it work with gtk3 without unity's indicators" and things like that.
[09:19] <brainwash> you will have to provide a patch for the notes apps
[09:21] <brainwash> basically there is no problem, because we include both indicator and notification area, so all tray icons should show up
[09:21] <Unit193> brainwash: Which all do, except Quassel.
[09:21] <gry> For new users yes - old users will upgrade and only have the notification area only. Not all of them know how to come to irc and ask questions, or how to add a second applet.
[09:21] <brainwash> oh, what about other QT apps?
[09:22] <Unit193> If they support the newer API, sure.  VLC does fine, as does (mostly) Skype.
[09:22] <brainwash> gry: right, migrating user configurations is a permanent problem
[09:22] <Unit193> s/problem/feature/ some, including me, would say.
[09:23] <brainwash> old user accounts won't switch to whisker menu either, etc
[09:23] <gry> I would think you're trying to make things compatible. I.e. if you can write some more core for notification area, do that - it will be less confusing?
[09:23] <gry> core -^code
[09:24] <brainwash> as of now we are glad that things work how they work
[09:25] <gry> Sorry?
[09:25] <brainwash> and like I said before, you can always remove the indicator area from the panel, it's optional
[09:25] <gry> It's not. When I remove it, the apps don't figure out how to put themselves to notification area.
[09:26] <brainwash> stock Xfce does not ship the indicator area, so it is optional
[09:26] <gry> Okay. I uninstalled xfce4-indicator-plugin -- I will check what works and what doesn't, after I log out and log in.
[09:26] <brainwash> right, please do
[09:27] <ochosi> brainwash: i'm in favor of adding the category to the menu, but it will be a regression for those using the traditional appmenu
[09:27] <Unit193> Do we need the website links, still?
[09:28] <gry> Okay, it works now, everything is in notification area. Where did the indicator applet come from? Is it builtin? If not, I'll blame user error..
[09:28] <Unit193> You can also remove indicator-* packages if you'd like, and some other libs.
[09:29] <brainwash> ochosi: will people with the classic app menu complain about the extra category?
[09:29] <gry> ?
[09:31] <brainwash> gry: xfce4-indicator-plugin is only the panel plugin, you can also remove the actual indicator packages (indicator-*)
[09:31] <gry> I understood that. Thanks. The panel plugin is not builtin? I am trying to understand where it came from.
[09:32] <brainwash> it's an external panel plugin
[09:32] <brainwash> or what do you mean exactly?
[09:32] <brainwash> external panel plugins are shipped in their own packages
[09:33] <brainwash> the notification area (internal plugin) is part of xfce4-panel
[09:38] <ochosi> anyway folks, my connection continues to be shaky as always, if important stuff comes up, just email me
[09:39] <Unit193> ochosi: Perhaps email Lyz with requested login details?
[09:48] <gry> brainwash: I guess it would make sense for ubuntu to wait for xfce to go gtk3. Before it does, all apps -- including gtk3 ones -- appear to be happy with gtk2. Unity-based things look to be a waste of time, xfce folks would get to it in a compatible way so any app that talks to xfce would magically talk to a new notification area -- that's how I define compatibility.
[09:49] <ochosi> Unit193: it just feels like a possibly useless effort, and i can't even get/access my irssi profile folder for the moment, so i'd have to do that all over again (=waste of time)
[09:49] <gry> That's what my expectations are, anyway. I also grepped the gzipped logs and I see that I upgraded the indicator plugin recently, but I didn't install it myself, so something was shipped with it and didn't uninstall it properly (I had gnome-ish ubuntu desktop installed before).
[09:50] <gry> So I just see that it's not built-in like you said and hope that it'll be available as an extra ever since, but if other users ask, it should be interesting where they got it from. I dunno where I did.
[09:51] <brainwash> it should be installed by default if xubuntu-desktop is installed
[09:51] <brainwash> it's part of the xubuntu experience
[09:51] <brainwash> and works fine for most people (we did much testing)
[09:52] <knome> Unit193, i thought we dropped the links already.
[09:52] <gry> brainwash: "Works fine for most people" to have two borders around two different applets when only one would suffice? How is it better than using the old one?
[09:53] <Unit193> knome: xubuntu-default-settings: /usr/share/xubuntu/applications/xubuntu-website.desktop  Still.
[09:53] <knome> Unit193, i noticed the same, but at least they are not in the main menu.
[09:53] <knome> i mean, the root level
[09:53] <knome> or are they? :)
[09:53] <brainwash> gry: sadly this discussion seems to lead nowhere :/
[09:54] <knome> gry, with the old way, not all of the indicators worked.
[09:54] <knome> gry, if you are willing to patch that (and make it work with gtk3), it's very welcome
[09:54] <knome> gry, otherwise, we will keep using what we use now since at least all the things work now.
[09:54] <knome> gry, if you don't like that, you can use the old way and miss some of the indicators
[09:55] <gry> I don't know where else to ask, I need some more details. If you give me some thoughts on what did not work, I'll check and consider fixing.
[09:55] <knome> gry, or fix the old stack.
[09:55] <gry> I'm just conservative. I don't like new things, especially if they're builtin and the entity of problems they address is empty.
[09:56] <gry> While xfce folks would convert their stuff to gtk3 smoother anyway.
[09:56] <gry> I'd be happy to stop complaining and fix the old stack - what are its problems?
[09:57] <knome> i'm not technical enough to point out the exact problems, but others can, and ultimately, it's all on the logs.
[09:57] <Unit193> knome: They are.
[09:57] <gry> I would probably look at some sort of bug tracker but I've never found launchpad intuitive without some sort of kicks
[09:58] <knome> Unit193, oh. not the whiskermenu favs? :)
[09:58] <Unit193> I don't use whisker.
[09:58] <gry> it would have to be in xfce's bug tracker probably, but I've not used that either
[09:58] <knome> Unit193, they aren't
[09:58] <knome> Unit193, so i guess it's a good idea actually... those who keep on using the old menu will still see them.
[09:59] <Unit193> Meh.
[09:59] <knome> gry, i appreciate that you are saying you are willing to help, but seriously, i don't know how much time i should use to help you if you can't seem to be comfortable using a bug tracker
[09:59] <knome> Unit193, i'm also with dropping them.
[09:59] <brainwash> gry: xubuntu 12.04 already ships with xfce4-indicator-plugin (for gtk2 indicators) and the notification area
[09:59] <knome> err, good.
[10:00] <brainwash> gry: so having both areas in the panel is nothing new
[10:00] <gry> knome: it's more of "which tracker to use" than "how to use it" -- I'm not very familiar with whose problems to fix, distro's ones or xfce's ones
[10:01] <Unit193> knome: Oh, and anyone else I should ping/add to the merge proposal for -core?
[10:01] <gry> also, if you feel that I'm too lazy, feel free to ask me to sleep more; I'm not sleeping well at all
[10:01] <knome> Unit193, well you probably should be corresponding mainly with ochosi now :)
[10:01] <gry> brainwash: I'm not looking at new things that fix unknown problems before I give up fixing unknown problems
[10:01] <Unit193> knome: Already set him as reviewer and talked to him, grabbing you because :online: :P
[10:01] <knome> ^ see
[10:01] <knome> :P
[10:02] <Unit193> ochosi: Alrighty, anyone else I should snag/ping/add to the -core merge proposal for reviewing?
[10:03] <brainwash> gry: so I guess that you should start with porting Xfce to gtk3 and then somehow merge the indicator plugin into the notification area
[10:04] <gry> yup, I think the xfce folks are doing something in that direction already
[10:04] <brainwash> they do, but they need help to speed up the process :)
[10:04] <gry> without using unity stuff - so it's up to fixing old applet and then writing it in new gtk3
[10:05] <gry> yes I agree
[10:05] <gry> I'll look at what they're doing and shout back if I have issues, that should be a decent way
[10:06] <ochosi> Unit193: no, i wanted to talk to elfy but couldn't get a hold of him yet (or maybe he couldn't get a hold of me)
[10:06] <Unit193> Cool, so I'll just sit tight, no problem.
[10:19] <ochosi> bluesabre: what's the status on the lls and xfpm uploads btw?
[10:20] <bluesabre> I think they're both in utopic now and ready to SRU/backport to trusty
[10:20] <ochosi> the SRU hasn't been filed yet i suppose?
[10:21] <bluesabre> that's correct
[10:21] <ochosi> i see...
[10:21] <bluesabre> I haven't had a chance to do much the past two days
[10:21] <ochosi> sure, not blaming you in case you thought that ;)
[10:21] <bluesabre> was hoping to catch up tonight or tomorrow morning ;)
[10:21] <ochosi> i've been a bit disconnected
[10:21] <ochosi> just don't wanna lose track too much on this
[10:25] <bluesabre> yeah, I'm on top of it :)
[10:30] <elfy> not being connected makes it a bit hard to talk to people :p
[10:31] <knome> here we see the perfect example of the IRC-centric thinking/workflow ;)
[10:31] <elfy> trello ftw
[10:46] <brainwash> ochosi: can you please take a look at bug 1324811
[10:47] <elfy> ochosi: I'm about for 30 minutes now - then back in a couple of hours
[10:49] <ochosi> elfy: just read your email
[10:49] <ochosi> so yeah, i guess it's easiest then if we merge core so testers can do what they always do
[10:50] <elfy> yea - that would be favourite
[10:50] <elfy> that's what Unit193 and I discussed for this 
[10:50] <ochosi> ok
[10:50] <ochosi> i'm fine with that, so let's merge it
[10:50] <elfy> k - cool
[10:59] <ochosi> elfy, Unit193: ok, it's merged (in case the previous one didn't catch you :))
[11:00] <elfy> ochosi: ok - thanks
[11:00] <elfy> I'll check that out soon and then Unit193 and I can come up with some testing plan
[11:05] <slickymasterWork> hey elfy, knome 
[11:05] <knome> hello slickymasterWork 
[11:06] <slickymasterWork> next tuesday meeting plan is all setup
[11:07] <slickymasterWork> just a question though, id the Debian liaison issue been dropped
[11:07] <slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^
[11:07] <slickymasterWork> s/id(is
[11:07] <elfy> pretty sure Unit193 is that 
[11:07] <elfy> today was the day for anyone to say anything afaik
[11:08] <slickymasterWork> so, it's done with, for sure
[11:08] <elfy> actually 2 days ago 
[11:08] <elfy> just need to XPL to do the 'officialising' it I think :)
[11:09] <slickymasterWork> ok elfy, thanks for the heads up on that
[11:09] <elfy> that's my understanding of it all at least :)
[11:10] <slickymasterWork> np, I'll bring it up anway
[11:10] <slickymasterWork> if nothing it will server to make it official 
[11:10] <elfy> suspect it will be an Announcement rather than anything else
[11:11] <slickymasterWork> yes
[11:11] <elfy> wandering now - bbl
[11:11] <slickymasterWork> until then elfy 
[11:12] <slickymasterWork> lunch time for me ->
[11:16] <ochosi> slickymaster: yes, the debian liaison issue is dropped, i'll announce Unit193 on the ML shortly
[11:33] <ochosi> brainwash: i did take a look at that bugreport now, i have no idea whether that takes precedence (it would be a bit silly if it did though)
[11:34] <brainwash> ochosi: thanks, I have no clue either, I just assume that it works just fine
[12:36] <slickymasterWork> lol ochosi, you're really mimicking me
[12:36] <slickymasterWork> are you sure we're not using the same ISP ;)
[14:38] <drc> clear
[14:41] <elfy> with expected showers
[14:44] <drc> tomorrow: Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs.
[20:00] <Unit193> Logan_: How do you feel about pushing a NEW package in for Xubuntu?  pkg-xfce isn't really interested in it.
[20:04] <Noskcaj> Unit193, Which package?
[20:05] <Unit193> Noskcaj: It'd not be seeded, but xfdashboard.  Not for sure we want it available, but might.
[20:05] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:07] <Unit193> I already have all the packaging done, except for some description changes.
[20:31] <Logan_> Unit193: sure
[20:31] <Logan_> why doesn't Debian want it?
[20:31] <Unit193> Noskcaj: While you're bumping people, you should bump Matthias Klose about parsedatetime, it's a little broken.
[20:31] <Unit193> Logan_: I think it's more just not interested/not enough time.
[20:32] <Noskcaj> Unit193, I will soon. Have to finish this upower stuff first
[20:38] <Logan_> Unit193: I'm leaving for NYC now, but I can definitely do it later/tomorrow
[20:39] <Unit193> Logan_: Have fun!  But this wasn't a thing for this week, just perhaps this cycle.
[20:39] <Logan_> kk
[20:54] <Noskcaj> Unit193, parsedatetime is probably fixed in 1.2. I doubt doko would care if you updated it
[20:54] <Unit193> It is fixed in 1.2, that's what I'm using.
[21:02] <Noskcaj> Why not make a merge then
[21:06] <Unit193> They tend to be a huge pain for something so simple.
[21:08] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:12] <Unit193> Noskcaj: Isn't it  (LP: #1302963)  ?
[21:21] <Noskcaj> Unit193, Merge is now up
[21:22] <Unit193> So I should delete mine, I see.  I targetted the wrong location it seems anyway, meh.
[21:22] <Unit193> lp-propose really fails badly now. :/
[21:27] <Unit193> Noskcaj: Do you know why when you branch from lp:ubuntu/parsedatetime, lp-propose wants to merge to lp:parsedatetime?
[21:28] <Noskcaj> nope. Although i don't use lp-propose
[21:28] <Unit193> I really like the idea, and it used to work better. :/