/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/31/#ubuntu-us-ca.txt

nhainesRoguehorse: good morning!01:33
RoguehorseLOL! Not quite morning anymore is it : )01:36
nhainesNo, but it *does* adequately illustrate the nature of IRC.  :)01:37
akkGood $curtime!01:38
Roguehorseseems that way doesn't it; still getting used to the flow of IRC01:38
nhainesIRC: More immediate than email; much lazier than SMS.01:39
nhainesI've been using it for 20 years.  You get used to it eventually.  :)01:39
Roguehorsetrue, it's often odd to think back through the years how my communication types have changed as well as societies01:40
RoguehorseI've only been involved for a few months : )01:40
RoguehorseMOst of the people around me are "average" tech users, Facebook, Skype, etc.. Mostly just Facebook01:42
nhainesPerfect Ubuntu candidates, though.  :)01:43
nhainesBut that's fine.  Everyone starts somewhere and everyone eventually finds something awesome they want to learn more of. :)01:43
RoguehorseI wish, all in the house are pro-Microsoft ('cept me : ))01:44
nhainesThere's nothing wrong with Windows, but nothing extraordinary either.  Maybe backwards-compatibility.  They pour a lot of effort into that very successfully.01:46
RoguehorseI switched to Ubuntu with Karmic...did a few years of openSUSE..now back on Kubuntu01:46
RoguehorseNothing wrong with it's development (other than the obvious flaws) I just get tired of people trying to "force" me into using it01:47
nhainesExcellent. :)01:47
RoguehorseThe same goes for Apple.. awsome hardware and the software is nice too, but then I'm locked in01:48
nhainesLucid was really nice.  Precise really solid.  I'm thrilled with trusty.01:48
RoguehorseI don't like being locked in01:48
RoguehorseI'm enjoying Trusty too...except for this glitch I have with the plasma desktop. But that's a KDE issue I believe01:49
nhainesApple hardware is all right.  The industrial design is stunning!  But the markup is also stunning, unfortunately.  ;)01:49
RoguehorseWell, supposedly all the "bells and whistles" are what one is paying for01:49
RoguehorseI have never owned any Apple product..even though my cousin has worked there 25+ years01:50
RoguehorseI hit him up for a job opp once, what a mistake that was.. LOL01:51
nhainesI worked with them a lot during college.  I remember when OS X first came out I opened up a terminal and told my boss "this is the best interface an Apple has had in 25 years," haha.01:51
Roguehorse: )01:51
RoguehorseI think they put out pretty good eye candy honestly01:52
nhainesYup, it all looks very pretty.01:53
nhainesI think Ubuntu looks very clean.  The phone interface is certainly stunning.01:53
RoguehorseI got Snow Leopard running in a VM once via Empire EFI.. it was interesting01:53
* ianorlin tihnks lxde +compton looks pretty01:53
RoguehorseUbuntu and many of the derivitives do a very nice job....good quality dev going into most of the products01:55
RoguehorseI saw the phone during the release party, it is very nice, and yes, clean01:55
nhainesThe phone interface feels good to use.01:56
Roguehorseianorlin: I've tried a few of the other desktops..such as LXDE..I still seem to come back to KDE01:56
RoguehorseI may get one once my contract runs up..I just picked up this Android Razor not long ago though so I have a ways to go01:57
* ianorlin knows of a derivitive of lubuntu that has a fake unity session but it doesn't have dash but uses much less memory01:58
RoguehorseDefine "Fake Unity" ?02:03
RoguehorseWhen Thomas Jefferson wrote "All men are created equal" what do you think he meant? - history class ... I think it was a loaded question02:04
nhainesRoguehorse: means looks like Unity but isn't actually running Unity.  :)02:05
akkSure. Obviously it's debatable whether he included slaves, or women.02:05
nhainesakk: that's because by "men" he meant "people".02:06
akknhaines: but "people" didn't actually include those people I mentioned.02:06
nhainesakk: probably not.02:06
Roguehorsenhaines: Ok, thanks : )02:06
RoguehorseIt really seemed to "only" include white English people02:07
nhainesI *really* have to stop watching Kitchen Nightmares while I'm eating.02:07
RoguehorseLOL! - for sure02:07
RoguehorseI have a 4yr old son so my TV gets very limited to mostly channel 123 (whatever that is)02:09
akkMy TV gets ... the signal from the DVD player.02:09
nhainesMake him watch Cosmos on Sundays.02:09
nhainesI'm watching on Hulu Plus right now.02:10
RoguehorseMy wife controls it at night - and she likes 19 kids and counting or house hunters mostly02:10
RoguehorseI watch Netflix sometimes in the morning if I can get away with it02:11
RoguehorseI've been watching Arrow - pretty cool show02:11
* ianorlin is watching hockey02:11
RoguehorseI've started playing over at code.he.net too - I think I want to build on what they started02:12
RoguehorseI lost interest in sports a long time ago02:13
nhainesCreating is invigorating.  :)02:14
akkDoing things is more fun than watching other people do things.02:14
RoguehorseI agree - many people have told me I need to get involved in a "project" meaning codeing rather than just writing stuff on my own02:14
akkOr, as Ursula K. LeGuin wrote once, "sports are neat to do but dull to talk about".02:15
nhainesakk: +102:15
RoguehorseI like what they started and want to continue to develop it02:15
Roguehorseakk: +102:15
nhainesRoguehorse: well, collaboration is a really good way to get started and learn best practices.  :)02:16
RoguehorseI agree, I've just had a hard time finding the right team+project that motivated me02:22
RoguehorseI thought I would find some people at the university, but most of those people didn't really care about dev - they just wanted to get the work done and get out02:23
nhainesThere's a nice catharsis in that too.  :)02:24
RoguehorseI've had people throw their projects and ideas at me but not many of them I found interesting02:24
nhainesWell, that's the difference between schoolwork and ownership of a project.  :)02:25
nhainesOr investment in, maybe.02:25
Roguehorseagreed, I didn't meet any students like me with a desire to create or take ownership of a project02:26
RoguehorseMy biggest problem is I dabble in too much instead of digging into a few things02:27
akkThat's sad. I remember lots of late-night hack sessions in school, completely unrelated to any classes.02:27
nhainesNah, that's a good way to get a sense for stuff.  You just have to graduate to digging in.  :)02:27
Roguehorseakk: Lucky for you! You found a good group.02:28
akkYeah -- there were pretty good geeky groups in the schools I went to.02:28
akkLearned a lot, not from classes but from hanging around just trying things02:28
Roguehorsealso take into account I'm 44 and not 24 anymore : )02:28
akkor coming up with hacks to get around ridiculous quotas on student accounts --02:28
nhainesakk: 640K should be enough disk space for anyone.02:29
akkmuch later, I find myself wondering if they set the ridiculous quotas to see who'd find ways around them.02:29
ianorlinthe sad tihng is I got really into linux right after I graduated UCLA02:29
Roguehorsenhaines: LOL! Right : )02:29
akknhaines: It was way lower than that at one school. You really couldn't keep email around (unless you had a workaround).02:29
nhainesakk: that's what POP3 was made for.  :)02:30
akkI don't think POP existed then.02:30
akk(our mail came to us UPHILL! BOTH WAYS! IN THE SNOW! :)02:30
nhainesUUCP?  :)02:30
akkyeah, we did have that.02:31
Roguehorseakk: ROTFLMAO!!02:31
ianorlinimap is nice now if you have multiple machines or dual boot02:31
akkWhat we ended up doing was forming a group of friends where we'd all tar our files together and put them in one person's homedir02:31
RoguehorseI still just use imap02:31
akkand that person would be over quota the next morning02:31
akkthen the next day someone else would do it.02:31
akk(and the day's over-quota person would borrow an account from somebody else).02:31
RoguehorseWell, since I'm an online student it's different02:32
akkAt another school we found a much more clever way.02:32
Roguehorseakk: You really had to go through hurdles!02:33
RoguehorseGood problem solving skill development though02:33
akkYou can write a C program that opens a file in write mode, seeks a huge amount forward (like, more than the whole filesystem's size) then writes a single byte and closes it.02:33
RoguehorseIf it's not a challenge, we don't learn02:33
akkWhat you get is a file with a "hole" in it02:33
akkbut if you ls it, it will appear to be so big02:34
akkthat when the quota system runs, it overflows and turns negative :)02:34
akkYou just have to du your homedir and figure out how much negative it has to go, then calculate the right amount to seek, and do that every evening.02:34
akkI learned a lot about filesystems from that.02:35
ianorlinwhy wouldn't usage size be shown as unsigned?02:35
Roguehorseakk: I guess you would! Necessity is definitely the mother of invention02:35
akk(well, not filesytems as in kernel code, but as in inodes and such)02:36
nhainesOkay, that made me lol.02:36
akkianorlin: Yes, it should have been unsigned, but that wasn't how they wrote the program.02:38
akkThis was before BSD with built-in filesystem quotas, so it was just a program somebody had written that ran once a day.02:39
akkI think it was ... 4.1? and quotas came in with 4.2? but I might be off-by-one.02:39
Roguehorseback in "the-day" I think it was easier to find work-arounds to homebrews02:40
akkLooks like it's finally dark enough to test my raspi no-ir camera setup ...02:41
Roguehorsenow we have decades of bug fixes that prevent much of those old/fun jobs02:41
RoguehorseI heard someone say that some programs that are old enough have had bugs found 60+ years later02:42
ianorlinfinding bugs is fun though02:43
RoguehorseOne of the guys in our LUG picked up a b-black at the makers fair02:43
akk60! That would be an old program.02:43
akkBeaglebones are much nicer than RPis, reall.02:43
akk+y02:43
RoguehorseI wish I could remember which one it was but it was the length of time that stuck with me.02:43
Roguehorseakk: Yeah, he was talking about doing one of those combo-supercomputer things maybe02:44
Roguehorsewhat are those called again?02:44
ianorlinclusters?02:46
akkCluster sounds right.02:46
Roguehorsewell yes, but there's another term..darnit!02:46
akkOkay, this is not promising -- I put a glass of hot water in front of the camera and the photo still shows nothing.02:46
RoguehorseBeowulf02:48
Roguehorseakk: Gotta love that bug fixing : )02:49
akkHmm, apparently you have to have a pretty serious IR illuminator too.02:49
akkI have one on order but it hasn't arrived yet.02:49
akkSo much for finding out what those big cat-looking tracks in the yard were tonight.02:49
* akk goes to turn the pi off and turn the hot water into cocoa02:49
Roguehorseplan B: executed02:50
nhainesBeowulf?02:50
nhainesHwæt! wē Gār-Dena in ġeār-dagum, þēod-cyninga, þrym ġefrūnon, hū ðā æþelingas ellen fremedon.02:50
Roguehorsenhaines: I Think so....02:50
Roguehorseis that Danish?02:50
nhainesIt's English.  Or more accurately, englisc.02:51
Roguehorsehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf_cluster02:52
darthrobotTitle: [Beowulf cluster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]02:52
Roguehorse: )02:52
RoguehorseSeems like a relatively popular project these days02:52
akkA beowulf cluster out of slow things like beaglebones or pis seems like ... well, I guess I've built plenty of silly pointless things too, I shouldn't criticize.02:52
akkSince building it is the point, not getting a practical useful thing out of it.02:53
nhainesRoguehorse: it's the first sentence in the Old English poem Beowulf.02:53
Roguehorsekind of like the guy who did the Star Wars movie in the terminal mode?02:53
nhainesTolkien translates it as: "Lo! the glory of the kings of the people of the Spear-Danes in days of old we have heard tell, how those princes did deeds of valour."02:54
akkyes! That was hilarious.02:54
Roguehorsenhaines: Ah! I think I read that freshman year in high school02:54
akkLeia with the @ for hair.02:54
* akk hides from pleia2 02:54
RoguehorseLOL! : )02:55
nhainesRoguehorse: the poem is not very practical to translate into poetic modern English.  I've only started Tolkien's prose translation but it is imminently readable.02:55
Roguehorseimminently?02:56
nhainestypo for eminently.02:58
Roguehorsegotcha03:01
RoguehorseI have this guy who contacted me out of the blue and wants to give a presentation at the June EBLUG meeting03:03
nhainesOoh, congrats!03:03
Roguehorseshould I prepare a backup presentation if he doesn't show? I have never met this guy before03:03
Roguehorsenhaines: thanks03:03
nhainesIt's always good to have a backup presentation.  I have about three or four I can give at any time.03:05
akk+103:05
Roguehorsewhich really doesn't mean much since I've only been involved since Sept03:05
Roguehorsehmm - Good thought03:05
nhainesThe secret to getting involved is simply to get involved.03:06
RoguehorseSeems like03:06
nhainesAs I've said to phone tech and new public speaker alike: you only have to *fake* like you're confident.  The audience can't tell the difference.03:06
nhainesAnd the best thing is, there's only so many times you can pretend to be confident giving a presentation before you're not faking it anymore.03:06
akkA backup presentation doesn't have to be super polished, but maybe have some interesting tips to share, or something like that.03:06
akkAnd of course, contact the speaker a couple of days before and confirm.03:07
Roguehorseoh for sure!03:07
RoguehorseI haven't been through the last minute "drop-out" yet but I know it's coming sooner or later - it's inevitable03:08
RoguehorseI have a presentation ready to go just in case03:11
nhainesThere you go then.  ;003:11
nhaines:)03:11
RoguehorseI should probably build a few for good measure03:12
nhaines"Untrustworthy meta keys" wouldn't just make an awesome name for a band.  It's also my chief complaint with this wireless keyboard.  :P03:12
Roguehorse: (03:12
RoguehorseI've been using this Logitech K800 for a few years now and I like it - hasn't let me down yet03:13
RoguehorseI like the LED key feature as my desk is next to the bed and sometimes I have to work in low-lighting while others are sleeping03:15
nhainesShift almost always works, but sometimes Ctrl and Alt don't.  And since I have Right Alt mapped to Compose, it's doubly annoying.03:16
Roguehorseand the keys are quieter than other models03:16
Roguehorsenhaines: That would drive me nuts03:16
nhainesRoguehorse: it's just barely reliable enough to keep me from throwing it against the wall.03:17
Roguehorsecan you re-build it?03:17
nhainesI don't have the technology.03:18
Roguehorsemake it stronger, faster better like Steve Rogers?03:18
Roguehorseit was a shot03:18
nhainesI'm not convinced it's a mechanical problem.  :)03:19
Roguehorseno 6M keyboard then - so much for that series : (03:19
Roguehorse?? Ahh03:20
nhainesI really want a nice mechanical switch keyboard but I prefer the ergonomic ones so I'm probably out of luck.03:20
RoguehorseYeah - no dice there03:20
* ianorlin is actually thinking of building a desktop03:21
RoguehorseI looked at those Lyz shared the link about that can have the custom Ubuntu meta key03:21
nhainesianorlin: you'll need some nice wood, a table saw, and a miter box.03:21
RoguehorseThey're cool - but no backlighting like I need and I'm sure the "clicking" is insane03:22
Roguehorsenhaines: : ) - good catch03:22
RoguehorseI have the old "Jerker" from Ikea03:22
RoguehorseI love this desk!03:23
Roguehorseianorlin: Yes, I'm still a desktop user myself03:23
Roguehorsealthough I need to invest in a new mid tower03:24
RoguehorseI thought it would be cool to have a "gamer" case with LED's back in 2009 - now not so much03:24
Roguehorsemy hands get cold from the front fans and my wife complains at night when I'm up late03:25
Roguehorsesomeone suggested switch out the fans but that would almost cost me as much as just getting a new case03:25
akkI like quiet machines. It irritates me when my fan comes on.03:26
Roguehorsethis thing I have has 4 fans and the one on top is almost 6" - believe it or not it's pretty quiet still after all these years03:27
RoguehorseI have not had to replace a fan yet03:27
RoguehorseI think it's an Antec 6002 or something like that03:28
RoguehorseAntec 900203:30
Roguehorseianorlin: If you're going to build one - unless you're going to get totally crazy in pushing it gaming - stay conventional with the case. my .0203:32
nhainesSkeleton case for the win: http://www.maximumpc.com/files/imagecache/futureus_imagegallery_fullsize/gallery/img142.png03:33
darthrobotContent type: [image/png] Size: [822404]03:33
nhainesAlternative: Spider case: http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/61/19/001735/lian-li-pc-t1r-case.jpg03:33
darthrobotContent type: [image/jpeg] Size: [34752]03:33
RoguehorseThat's great if you don't have pets or kids : )03:37
Roguehorseat my house that would be dead in less than 24hrs03:38
Roguehorseexcuse me - unless you have a really safe place to keep it03:38
Roguehorsebrb - dinner is being served (Chinese take-out) YAY!!03:39
* ianorlin too03:42
nhainesTonight I had Subway.03:44
DonkeyHoteisubway was the place to go when scale was at the westin03:46
* ianorlin has a subway within walking distance of my house03:49
nhainesDonkeyHotei: yup, closest and most western food.03:50
RoguehorseI should eat Subway more and Jack In The Box less : )04:13
RoguehorseI can throw a rock from my house and hit JB though04:13
Roguehorsedarthrobot: speaking of images - have you ever played with webp?04:16
darthrobotRoguehorse: Error: "speaking" is not a valid command.04:16
RoguehorseHow can that be - I don't have an iPhone?04:16
=== DonkeyHotei is now known as DonkeyHotei_
DonkeyHotei_R2Pi2: seen DonkeyHotei04:22
DonkeyHotei_Eureka: seen DonkeyHotei04:22
EurekaDonkeyHotei_: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)04:22
=== DonkeyHotei_ is now known as DonkeyHotei
* DonkeyHotei is watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t77ormPX-RA04:25
darthrobotTitle: [The Sacramento Press Club Presents The California Secretary of State Debate - YouTube]04:25
Roguehorsewhat's a press club?04:26
DonkeyHoteiwe're having an election on tuesday04:31
RoguehorseWho's we?04:40
DonkeyHoteithis state04:41
DonkeyHoteithis is a state-based channel, you know04:41
Roguehorse: ) I guess it's obvious I don't follow politics04:41
RoguehorseThat's true04:42
RoguehorseOh - the web page says June 304:43
Roguehorsehttp://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/statewide-elections/2014-primary/04:44
darthrobotTitle: [June 3, 2014, Statewide Direct Primary Election - Elections & Voter Information - California Secretary of State]04:44
RoguehorseThe percentage of voters who registered with no party preference has gone from 20.17% four years ago to 21.16% today, an increase of about 325,000 voters, the report said.04:46
RoguehorseThat's interesting04:46
DonkeyHoteii am registered with no party affiliation04:47
Roguehorseseems to be the more popular stance these days04:47
RoguehorseDo you do vote by mail?04:48
DonkeyHoteiyes04:50
DonkeyHoteiand i'm a pollworker in the election04:50
ianorlinwhy do I want these parts for a pc build http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6RQprH04:51
darthrobotTitle: [Intel Core i5-4460, Cooler Master N200 - System Build - PCPartPicker]04:51
RoguehorseOh? I remember as a kid some people would hold polls at their house - now I think it has to be a public place doesn't it?04:51
ianorlinthere is one in a garage still by my house04:52
DonkeyHoteimy precinct is a residential garage04:52
RoguehorseWOW! I have not seen one of those in a while. Seems the last couple of years has been at some local school.04:54
Roguehorseianorlin: Is that a list you just put together for a desktop?04:54
ianorlinyes04:54
Roguehorsesimilar to what I have now - the sockets have changed though. Mine is 1156 and now they are at 115505:00
Roguehorsep55m-ud405:00
ianorlinno now they are 115005:01
Roguehorsethe one you picked is - scroll down to Gigabyte05:02
Roguehorse16G of RAM is a lot - you planning on a lot of VM?05:02
ianorlinyes05:02
Roguehorsethat will do it then : )05:03
RoguehorseI have 8 now but can go 16 - just don't have the money and I'm not hurting so ...05:03
ianorlin1150 is actaully the newest socket though05:04
Roguehorseah!05:05
Roguehorsehow does the SSD and spinner work together?05:06
RoguehorseI have "zero" experience with SSD yet05:06
ianorlinI plan to have / on ssd and /home on hdd05:07
Roguehorseok..I get it05:07
ianorlinso fast boots and launch of programs and more space for data05:08
RoguehorseI have a single 350G HDD and a 2TB Fantom eSATA drive05:08
* ianorlin has 320 G HDD and 1tb usb3 hard drive connected to laptop05:10
Roguehorseso almost the same thing - pretty close05:10
RoguehorseI don't see a listing for gPU05:12
ianorlinyeah I don't really do much gaming and the intel integrated works for most things I do05:13
RoguehorseI understand - I have an Nvidia 9800GT and it works but sometimes it's hit and miss with the open source drivers05:17
ianorlinit doesn't do any better for 2d accelartion for price really either05:18
Roguehorseyou think 380 watt supply will be enough? I've never mesured my actual consumption05:19
ianorlinpcpartpicker says without graphics card it will only use 187 watts05:21
Roguehorseone of these days I should measure resouirce usage when running VMs but I had a hard time getting good video play on a KVM machine05:22
RoguehorseI'm guessing that really had to do with the drivers though - obviously not the PS05:23
RoguehorseThat seems like a cool site giving all that feedback - I bought all my parts from Fry's based on a budget and some research05:24
Roguehorsehttp://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i5/Intel-Core%20i5-760%20BV80605001908AN%20(BX80605I5760).html - my older i505:29
darthrobot[404] Title: [Page not found]05:29
nhainesWell that's portentious.05:30
Roguehorselooks like the 1156 socket got killed in 201105:32
RoguehorseDS Cube Black Edition Silent Cube - this looks like a nice case but I can't tell how to access the drive bays?05:40
Roguehorsehttp://pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-case-vsk3000 - I like this case too - no fans in the front or light to annoy the wife when I'm up late and she's sleeping06:04
darthrobotTitle: [Antec VSK-3000 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (VSK-3000) - PCPartPicker]06:04
Roguehorseholy cow! 11pm - I'm out - Goodnight : )06:05
RoguehorseGood Morning15:17
pleia2good morning17:41
pleia2if anyone wants to pitch in, we're always look for folks to help us write summaries for the ubuntu weekly newsletter https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdKZelXU8Y2LZGNrcHRkYmhfODlkODNxNnRnZA&hl=en17:59
darthrobot[R: docs.google.com] Title: [Ubuntu Weekly News Prep Page for Issue 370 - Google Docs]17:59
pleia2we have editors to clean up summaries if you're concerned, so don't be shy :)17:59

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