=== jalcine is now known as jacky [06:13] good morning === serverhamster is now known as alvin [07:28] !find GLES2/gl2.h [07:28] File GLES2/gl2.h found in emscripten, libcogl-gles2-dev, libgles2-mesa-dev, qt4-qmake, qt5-qmake [07:29] shadeslayer: what are we sessioning about with kf5? [07:29] !find EGL/egl.h [07:29] File EGL/egl.h found in emscripten, libegl1-mesa-dev [07:40] E: kapidox source: source-is-missing src/kapidox/data/htmlresource/jquery-2.1.0.min.js [07:40] :O [07:40] how does that even happen [07:41] someone thought: it's a text file so it counts as source? ^^ [07:42] well, eitherway, why is it missing [07:42] or how can something go missing? [07:42] not even git has the unminified js :( [07:42] oh fun, agateau added that [07:43] why would one have an uniminified version anyway [07:44] source means readable source, i.e. something that doesn't qualify as unmaintainble code ^^ [07:44] eh? [07:44] how would it check that? [07:44] and why [07:44] :O [07:44] wtf [07:45] iirc that really checks for the 'min' part in the filename [07:47] it's almost as if the lintian dev doesn't have anything else to do but lintian has all the useful stuff so he's adding important features like telling me whether I can read the javascript or not [07:57] yofel: I could keep the unminified js in the source code but then I would have to either minify it everytime someone generates a doc or at install time but that would mean removing the ability to run kgenapidox without installing it :/ [07:58] yofel: there is an interesting bit about jquery in Doxygen package, you may want to look at /usr/share/doc/doxygen/README.jquery [08:03] agateau: well, yeah, but they do ship the unminfied version in the source so they're fine [08:03] ScottK: do we need to fix ^ and would shipping both files be enough? [08:04] yofel: the difference is Doxygen is compiled so they do not need to support the "run without installing" use case [08:05] yofel: would it be enough to add the unminified file in the source, even if it is not used? [08:05] that's what I just asked scott, I'm not sure there [08:05] ok [08:07] I could also adjust the code so that installing kapidox would generate the minified file from the unminified file, while running from the source code would directly use the minified file [08:46] agateau: yes adding the unminified source without build instructions should be fine as long as you would sensibly run the minify command manually and not through a build system [08:47] nicer to have it included in the build system though [08:47] Riddell: not sure I understand the second part of your sentence [08:48] agateau: GPL requires all build scripts to be included, if there's no build script then that's fine [08:48] how can it be fine to not ship a build script if it is required to include it? [08:49] if it doesn't exist [08:49] maybe you create that file by running a command by hand [08:52] maco, valorie: gonnae tell your president to stay out of oor politics unless he wants to be re-colonised [08:52] what did he say? [08:52] * valorie calms the angry Scot [08:53] "Scottish independence: Barack Obama backs 'strong and united' UK" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27713327 [08:53] ooooo [08:53] silly Obama [08:54] the US president told reporters in Brussels the decision was "up to the people of Scotland". [08:55] he might have wanted to avoid the comparisons with the Crimea [08:55] although that is really not a comparison that can be made [08:55] I don't see anything about Crimea [08:56] he also said "the future of the UK is up to the people of Great Britain" which is just weird [08:57] yes, he should have said nothing about it IMO [08:57] not our business [09:01] * valorie leaves a great old video here and goes to bed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J5Zt2Obko [09:01] best drummer *ever* [09:01] no invasions of angry Scots by morning, I hope..... [09:01] no no, he should have said "we were free in 1776, what took the scots so long" :) [09:34] yofel: Yes, you need to fix and shipping both files is enough. [09:38] * Riddell comes across a comparison of oxygen font and ubuntu font https://projects.kde.org/news/179 [09:39] ScottK: ok thanks [10:20] Howdy all [10:26] ScottK: mind merging pykde4? [10:46] shadeslayer: No. Although when depends on if I fall asleep on the plane or not. [10:46] ok :) [10:48] speaking of python: If you have using python for GUI apps, how about this? http://micropython.org/ :D [10:48] *hate [10:48] apachelogger: Minified JavaScript is definitely not the preferred form of modification, so it's not source. [10:49] neither is perl. [10:51] agateau: As upstream it would be ideal for us (and Debian) if you could ship only the un-minified one in the source and then minify it as part of the build process. [10:53] Perl is write only, so it's a bit special. [10:55] :@@@@@@@@@@@@@ [10:56] frameworks shit is driving me mad I tell ya [10:56] MAD [10:59] apachelogger: what's the status of that? can we start uploading KF5 packages to utopic today? [10:59] ubiquity not working on today's daily-live, I wonder if I risk a dist-upgrade [11:09] Riddell: shoudl be uploaded [11:09] or maybe ppa is hating me again [11:10] I see nothing for utopic [11:10] ah I should hit enter I guess [11:10] too many flipping terminals open really [11:10] ^^ [11:11] we'll probably have to delete the trusty packages to get enough sapce [11:11] nah [11:11] oh [11:11] wgrant: can we please get a bump to 10 GiB for https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/next [11:12] or 5 would be enough as well I guess [11:13] should still have enough space for the upload I think, but we'll have to remove the trusty packages after that [11:13] or just get a space bump :S [11:14] well, if that takes too long I mean [11:16] err [11:16] no? [11:16] apachelogger: why override that? seems pretty important [11:18] yes [11:18] apachelogger: Unless the source is really there, don't override that. [11:19] It's an issue that should cause it to be rejected by the archive admins. [11:20] because it has no pointless whitespaces? [11:21] That would be one way to look at it. For humans the white space isn't pointless. [11:21] because it's unreadable, and just because you can magically understand character garbage doesn't mean others can too [11:23] it's not preferred modifiable form, so it's not allowed as source [11:25] so if I were to use shit variable names in code woud that code get rejected? [11:25] Not if that's the actual source. [11:26] that makes 0 sense [11:27] If you're using the machine readable copyright format it's really easy to fix using Files-Excluded. [11:27] from what I saw you can also put the source file in debian/missing-sources or so [11:27] whatever your preferred modifiable form is that's fine, minified javascript is nobody's preferred modifiable form [11:29] guys is 4.13.1 update coming anytime soon to trusty? [11:29] so, what if I had an editor that stored stuff in minified and expanded on its own? [11:29] snele: should be in -proposed unless it's still stuck [11:30] apachelogger: it's supposed to be readable even without $special_editor [11:30] yofel: ok I will enable -proposed and give it a test. thanks [11:30] or I guess you could ship the editor with the source [11:30] yofel: right, so what if I used shit variable names in my code? [11:31] apachelogger: as scott said, if that's the actual source no issue. min.js has a source that it's minified from [11:31] apachelogger: That doesn't make it source. If you could de-minify, you could include the results as source, but the minified one is still not preferred form for modification. [11:31] how do you know it's the actual source? [11:31] "preferred modifiable form" is a key part of the GPL and of archive admin reviews, it shouldn't be a novelty to anyone involved in free software [11:32] If it's minified, it's not. [11:32] right, so if I use shit variables [11:32] that's your problem [11:32] snele: not yet in :/ [11:33] yofel: yeah just saw that [11:33] Riddell: how is that any different from not using any whitespaces [11:33] ScottK: could you look at sc 4.13.1 in trusty-proposed unapproved please? [11:33] this argument is yanked from someones ass I tell you [11:33] if I write javascript without whitespaces, will it get rejected? [11:33] if you have a source that has whitespaces, I would say yes [11:34] how do you know if I have a source that has whitespaces [11:34] yofel: after the airplane takes off, if the WiFi works, and if I don't fall asleep, yes. [11:34] ok, thanks [11:35] apachelogger: well, I might not, in which case I might not reject it, but if I can find a source from it I would [11:35] *for it [11:35] apachelogger: if you can write javascript without whitespace I'd be amazed, but then you often do amaze me [11:36] apachelogger: There was recently a huge debate about this in Debian. It's pretty well a closed issue. [11:37] There is sometimes ambiguity about what's source, but I've yet to see minified JavaScript where it was at all uncertain. [11:37] sometimes? [11:38] the entire thing says preferred [11:38] Yep. [11:38] I'd prefer it software to not have shitty variable names [11:40] If I have a graphic file of some kind, it might have been made in gimp and there's a source. The gimp file (pcx, IIRC) might have been lost or not save and all you can do is bit edit the graphic file. [11:42] If you have the pcx that's the source. If you don't then it's the png (or whatever). [11:42] no one would ever know [11:43] I could have made it from a svg for all you know, I could have made it in kolourpaint, imported the png into svg, exported to png, edited in gimp [11:43] Yes. So for that kind of file it can be hard to tell. [11:44] I could write fancy fromatted javascript, minified, autoexpanded [11:44] you'd also never know [11:44] complete bullshit policy [11:45] FWIW: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/08/msg00365.html has pretty much the whole discussion in it already [11:45] No. Minified JavaScript isn't one of those ambiguous cases. [11:45] ScottK: you have autoexpanded code in the tar [11:46] you couldn't possibly tell whether that was autoexpanded or I whether I am terrible at code formatting [11:47] for that matter, shipping jars would be allowed too - you can make jars that can be cleanly decompiled [11:47] Also related: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/04/msg00014.html [11:48] No. Jars aren't allowed either. [11:48] right [11:48] yofel: that's not the same thing [11:48] I have a png [11:48] a run pngcrush on the png [11:49] that is now like minified js [11:49] Gotta go. [11:49] have a nice trip :) [11:49] you'd still modify that png fine [11:49] Riddell: and you can't modify minified js? [11:50] no, it's not the preferred form for modifications [11:50] it is still js? [11:50] just like the png is stilla png after pngcrush, it doesn't magically become an unmodifiable png [11:50] apachelogger: seriously, if you have a problem with this, take this up on debian-devel so the interpretation of the DFSG gets changed, until then it stays that most people believe that minified js is not the preferred form of modification [11:51] I have a problem with you people actually supporting that [11:51] well, then a pre-compiled bin is hex-editable as well, as I said that jars are editable too [11:52] yofel: my argument is that it is the same thing [11:52] it's still js, it's badly formatted js [11:52] so we need to draw *some* line in this very fuzzy definiton of source [11:52] it's js [11:52] I can edit with the same software I could edit js with [11:52] I can read it like I can read js [11:52] I can do everything I can do with js [11:52] but magically one is considered unacceptable and the other is not [11:53] right, and this was already discussed as there is some point in it. But if we *know* that there is a source for $js, then that source should still be included [11:53] and if I wrote the exactly same file originally without ever having used pointless whitespaces or \n it'd also be considered acceptable [11:53] go file a bug against lintian that the check is rubbish and should be removed [11:54] [13:51] I have a problem with you people actually supporting that [11:54] if you say you support it because of lintian then I'll ask you to write a manpage for muon-discover please [11:55] If I see 2 js with the same content, and I want to edit it, and you give me the hard to read one, why would I not want the other one plesae? [11:55] apachelogger: missing manpage is not a DFSG issue [11:55] I feel this discussion is no longer useful, you're against the consensus apachelogger [11:56] yeah [11:56] apachelogger: I don't think that you're completely wrong, but Javascript is a shitpile of special cases sadly [11:56] if people would never have started minfying it we wouldn't have this talk [11:58] apachelogger: so, are you removing the override or should I? [11:58] I'll not [11:58] ok, removing [12:00] more's the question, is agateau fixing upstream or should someone else? [12:01] Riddell: I am happy with adding an unminified jquery version upstream [12:01] thanks agateau [12:12] Riddell: Assuming src/jquery contains the unminified version as well as this README: http://paste.kde.org/pbyepm4pm . Would it be good enough? [12:15] agateau: yep [12:17] Riddell: done === vangelis_ is now known as Guest60178 [12:21] sweet, a dist-upgrade to utopic works! [12:21] deleted trusty packages from next PPA [12:22] dist-upgrade sure works, how does it run? ^^ [12:25] much like trusty [12:27] sweet [12:35] so blue http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/kf5-status/build_status_4.100.0_utopic.html [12:40] * Riddell uploads ecm [12:52] yofel: kde4libs for trusty needs a reupload with the SRU bug in debian/changelog [12:53] ScottK: ok, please reject then, I'll re-upload [12:53] yofel: Already rejected. [12:53] thanks [12:55] Riddell: if you fix things in the PPA SRU packages, please merge your changes into the SRU changelog instead of adding new changelog entries [12:55] the upload script doesn't auto-merge that [12:57] Riddell: also, does the update for kubuntu_add_langpack_path.diff really need to be in trusty? [13:01] yofel: it did but not now we've moved kf5 stuff to utopic [13:03] I'll remove that from the SRU then, we can have it in the 4.14 backports later on [13:04] thanks yofel [13:12] ScottK: new try uploaded [13:43] "debian/rules:8: *** missing separator (did you mean TAB instead of 8 spaces?). Stop." [13:43] * Riddell looks at apachelogger [14:10] Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~panfaust/kubuntu-packaging-next/kapidox-work/+merge/222328 :P [14:10] realized this yesterday just before going to bed [14:11] I had that problem in my first siduction porting attempt [14:26] santa_: groovy, that's what I need [15:01] yofel: accepted libs. I'll do the rest after it builds. [15:15] feed branches-next had 25 updates, showing the latest 6 [15:56] * yofel uploaded lintian versions of pkg-kde-tools to next and ninjas [15:57] thanks [16:13] feed branches had 8 updates, showing the latest 6 [16:13] I'm building the latest kdeframeworks packages for siduction [16:14] some extra stuff was needed, like libdbusmenuqt, phonon and such [16:15] when it's done I will write you a list in notes.k.o so you would know what would be needed to change in debian if you want them to adopt your packages [16:16] feed branches-next had 7 updates, showing the latest 6 [16:17] http://derp.co.uk/0b11c [16:17] hacked buildd ftw [16:19] btw qt 5.3 is arriving to debian sid [17:14] considering that kf5 is supposed to always pass all tests, the amount of tests that rely on -DBUID_TESTING=TRUE is rather large :( [18:21] santa_: why... xauth? [18:23] yofel: it's needed for the tests apparently [18:23] I don't remember one failing [18:24] 100% tests passed, 0 tests failed out of 13 [18:25] yofel: the relevant part of the build log http://paste.kde.org/pzrudvafc also note that this only happens in debian sid [18:25] sounds like a bug in xvfb packaging really [18:25] on ubuntu xvfb depends on xauth [18:27] hm, [18:27] xvfb recommends xauth in debian [18:27] rather unlucky [18:27] fine then I guess [18:30] yeah, kdelibs autopackagetest config depends on xauth too [18:46] fun, I lost sound after upgrading to utopic :( [18:46] and why do I have 2 pulseaudio processes running :S [18:48] Maybe init and init.d both getting ran [18:48] could be [18:50] rc2.d certainly has S05pulseaudio -.- [18:52] still shouldn't be killing my sound device, now it's trying to output over HDMI which obviously won't work [19:00] ok fixed [19:00] now I would like to know why phonon switched sound cards on upgrade :S [19:35] yofel, that happens quite often now, dunno why tho [20:00] yofel: All accepted. [20:00] *hugs* [21:03] apachelogger: I just realized something about our patch policy: Where do patches coming from debian fit in there? [21:03] We either just accept them, or we try to get the team to go by the same policy (which I belive will be rejected for reasons that only debian understands), or we blacklist patches as violating our policy [21:04] well, or d) we do the upstreaming - up to the point where a patch gets rejected upstream but debian keeps it anyway [21:13] Typically we keep them unless the cause an actual problem to keep the diff down. [21:17] yeah, but our patch policy isn't quite what we've typically been doing, although I guess we can decide after upstream review in those cases [21:35] Patch policy should rhen also say something about minimizing diff with Debian. [21:35] That's an overall Ubuntu project policy. [21:36] ah right, I guess we can agree on that