[00:33] <_thumper_> mhall119: around?
[00:40]  * thumper is reading a charm written with the python charm helpers
[00:41] <thumper> pretty nice...
[00:55] <jcw4> thumper: which charm?
[00:55] <thumper> looking at python-django right now
[00:55] <thumper> to try and work out WTF is going on
[00:55] <jcw4> heh
[00:55] <thumper> but the charm helpers themselves are pretty nice
[00:55] <jcw4> cool
[01:19] <vorpalbunny> well that's frustrating
[01:20] <thumper> no local charm support for the deployer
[01:20] <thumper> hazmat: is that right still?
[01:20] <thumper> hazmat: can't specify a local charm in a bundle description?
[03:14] <thumper> grr...
[03:15] <thumper> well this confused me for a while: unit_name = service_name()
[04:55] <lazyPower> thumper: didja file a bug?
[05:26] <thumper> lazyPower: no
[05:26] <thumper> lazyPower: but I feel I may be forking and tweaking the python-django charm
[05:26] <lazyPower> thumper: Thats the beauty of our system :) Use as little or as much of the charm as you need, remix to fit your purpose and contribue or hoard as you see fit.
[05:27] <thumper> lazyPower: well...
[05:27] <thumper> I feel there is a big deficiency in our system too
[05:27] <lazyPower> do tell
[05:27] <thumper> mainly in consistency, and usability of the charms
[05:27] <lazyPower> how so?
[05:27] <thumper> if you try and do anything non-vanilla
[05:27] <thumper> you get stuck
[05:27] <thumper> unless you read all the code
[05:27] <thumper> which I have had to do
[05:27] <thumper> not entirely sure if that is what we want
[05:28] <lazyPower> I'm not sure what you mean - and thats probably why the new python-django charm isn't ack'd into the store.
[05:28] <thumper> the charms just don
[05:28] <thumper> don't have enough documentation to understand enough
[05:28] <lazyPower> if you're talking about non-default settings.
[05:28] <thumper> right
[05:28] <lazyPower> Yeah, i'm combatting that with teh DNS charm - trying to raise teh bar
[05:28] <lazyPower> want to take a peek?
[05:28] <thumper> lazyPower: I've talked with alexisb about my problems
[05:28] <thumper> and we are going to bring it up with your group
[05:29] <thumper> but I want to get things going and write stuff up first
[05:29] <thumper> that way it is a positive contribution
[05:29] <thumper> rather than just bitching :-)
[05:29] <lazyPower> thumper: having a good list to guide with yoru pain points, to revise the review process would be welcome.
[05:29] <lazyPower> s/yoru/your/
[05:29] <thumper> I feel that others have probably done what I'm doing before, but it just isn't clear
[05:30] <thumper> nor are there examples or samples to move forwards
[05:30] <lazyPower> thumper: https://github.com/chuckbutler/dns-charm
[05:30] <lazyPower> take a look through the readme and doc
[05:30] <thumper> for example: a subordinate charm for python-django to provide the application
[05:30] <thumper> I'm having to figure it out as I go
[05:30] <thumper> and it is a big pile of trial and error
[05:30] <lazyPower> thumper: I'm a fan of that architecture - is it not very well documented? or ...
[05:30] <thumper> I know others would just not bother
[05:31] <thumper> but I know the benefits I want from the system
[05:31] <thumper> just not well documented
[05:31] <lazyPower> a good example of that is the new Tomcat charm from mbruzek
[05:31] <lazyPower> apps occupy space as subs, with tomcat providing just the app server
[05:31] <thumper> lazyPower: for local charms, how do I upgrade them?
[05:31] <thumper> where is the versioning?
[05:31] <lazyPower> juju upgrade-charm --repository=$foopath charmname
[05:31] <lazyPower> it auto-increments the REVISION
[05:31] <thumper> ah...
[05:32] <thumper> ok
[05:32] <thumper> also, the source of python-django recommends using nginx as a reverse proxy in front of gunicorn
[05:32] <thumper> but examples?
[05:32] <thumper> nope
[05:32]  * thumper goes back to making dinner
[05:33] <lazyPower> thumper: until yesterday we didn't have an NGINX charm
[05:33] <lazyPower> so there's no example to provide
[05:33] <lazyPower> there was a general consensus among a few charmers that NGINX should be rolled into whatever framework charm you're deploying instead of deploying NGINX + <framework>
[05:34] <lazyPower> marcoceppi wrote an alpha quality NGINX charm to bundle into a demo that I'm farily certain he is planning on releasing in the coming weeks that will fit that bill pretty well
[05:36] <thumper> hmm...
[05:36] <thumper> ok, so perhaps I'll just deploy gunicorn at port 80 for now
[05:37] <thumper> given that the site load will be very small to start with
[05:37] <thumper> and look to fix later?
[05:37] <thumper> although that feels wrong too
[05:37] <thumper> as the static area really shouldn't go through python
[05:37] <thumper> lazyPower: is nginx a subordinate?
[05:37] <lazyPower> Negative
[05:37] <thumper> hmm...
[05:37] <lazyPower> Its a stand-alone
[05:38] <thumper> so...
[05:38] <thumper> how should I do it then?
[05:38]  * thumper wonders
[05:38] <lazyPower> I would imagine you would co-locate services. I'm not really familiar with how its put together
[05:38] <thumper> also, what's the status of the new python-django charm?
[05:38] <thumper> I have forked it locally
[05:38] <thumper> to read and play
[05:38] <lazyPower> I haven't looked at it since my last review.
[05:39] <thumper> well, your review said approve
[05:39] <thumper> I didn't look at the details though
[05:39] <thumper> what's the process?
[05:40] <lazyPower> Latest change: 2014-05-12 Charles Butler Patrick Hetu 2014-05-02 fix a wrong configuration variable name - is the commit message on python-django in the store. i'm looking for this MP you're referencing
[05:43] <lazyPower> thumper: what you're referencing is upstream. its whats provided by cs:precise/python-django
[05:43] <lazyPower> cs:trusty/python-django
[05:43] <lazyPower> rather
[05:43] <lazyPower> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/trusty/python-django/trunk/files
[05:48] <lazyPower> thumper: however, this looks like it was an oversight on my part. I went back through my review notes and I have an action item to follow up on - this repository doesn't share a common ancestor with the precise python-django charm - and I didn't make it back to wrapping that up. I don't know how to promulgate this over whats existing.
[05:48] <lazyPower> complete failure on my part
[05:49] <thumper> lazyPower: so is this new one going to be trusty or precise or both?
[05:50] <lazyPower> It's in trusty - I need to defer the precise/both decision until I've spoken with other charmers
[05:50] <thumper> lazyPower: it looks like I'm going to have six or seven charms for my setup
[05:50] <thumper> ack
[05:50] <lazyPower> that's not something i'm comfortable cowboying myself, as it has implications with existing deployments.
[05:50] <thumper> so trusty/python-django is the new hotness?
[05:50] <lazyPower> thats the story for today
[05:50] <thumper> lazyPower: you can get a common ancestry easily enough
[05:50] <lazyPower> it may change on monday after i've convened with ~charmers
[05:50] <thumper> I think this will work:
[05:50] <thumper> start with the new branch
[05:51] <thumper> merge in the original
[05:51] <thumper> bzr revert .
[05:51] <thumper> which reverts the changes but not the merge
[05:51] <thumper> then commit
[05:51] <thumper> then you can merge that into the old charm
[05:51] <thumper> shazam
[05:51] <lazyPower> thumper: Thats good info to have, but again it depends on if its going to break how existing deployments using cs:precise/python-django - and that's something I need to re-validate.
[05:51]  * thumper nods
[05:51] <thumper> the behaviour needs to match, right?
[05:52] <thumper> I can see that this needs careful testing
[05:52] <lazyPower> exactly
[05:53] <lazyPower> if it winds up breaking the existing story (which if i remember correctly it doesnt, but -- this is > 2 weeks old so...) then we broke deployments everywhere to anybody that upgrades
[05:53] <lazyPower> and I don't want to poo on our existing users
[05:53]  * thumper nods
[05:53]  * thumper heads back to the kitchen
[05:53] <lazyPower> I'd rather tell you tod eploy trusty, and know its good, vs assuming.
[06:25] <thumper> lazyPower: hmm... due to me being cheap, I was wanting to put everything on one box
[06:25] <thumper> not sure if postgresql is trusty yet or not
[06:25] <thumper> easy way to check?
[06:25] <lazyPower> Put it in your local trusty charm repo and deploy it.
[06:25] <thumper> need block-storage-broker
[06:25] <thumper> ah
[06:26] <thumper> will try that
[06:26] <thumper> but then I can't use deployer script...
[06:26] <thumper> oh well
[06:26] <thumper> bundle can't reference local can it?
[06:26]  * thumper sees places for things to improve a lot
[06:29] <lazyPower> You can push that LP and deploy from there
[06:32] <lazyPower> Also I believe if you pass full path to the local charm you can deploy local charms.I may be wrong though
[06:35] <lazyPower> I know that works in deployer manifest format. Ppetraki built an offline archiver with that principal
[07:59] <jamespage> designated, those branches introduce two new configuration options - ceph-public-network and ceph-cluster-network
[07:59] <jamespage> you specify the network cidr and the charm figures out which configured network addresses to use
[14:19] <mhall119> thumper: off and on, what's up?
[18:15] <Eegoist> why relation-get return None, even if unit is on relation-list?