[22:08] <GunnarHj> belkinsa: ping?
[22:12] <Megabyte> Hello
[22:12] <Megabyte> Guys, I have a little problem here
[22:13] <Megabyte> I was reading Ubuntu's User Guide
[22:13] <Megabyte> and I ran into this little fragment
[22:13] <Megabyte> "The early GUIs were difficult to configure, clunky, and generally only
[22:13] <Megabyte> used by seasoned computer programmers. In the past decade, however,
[22:13] <Megabyte> graphical user interfaces have grown in usability, reliability, and appearance.
[22:13] <Megabyte> Ubuntu is just one of many different Linux distributions."
[22:13] <pleia2> Megabyte: which documentation is this? shipped on your system?
[22:14] <pleia2> and which version :)
[22:14] <Megabyte> What does "Ubuntu is just one of many different [...]" has to do with "the early GUIs?"
[22:14] <Megabyte> pleia, this is "Getting Started With Ubuntu 13.10"
[22:14] <Megabyte> Most current version
[22:14] <pleia2> Megabyte: from ubuntu-manual.org ?
[22:14] <GunnarHj> pleia2: The manual, in other words.
[22:14] <Megabyte> pleia2, precisely so
[22:14] <pleia2> Megabyte: ok, you want #ubuntu-manual
[22:15] <pleia2> there are a couple manual people here, but that's the channel were more of them hang out :)
[22:15] <knome> o hai pleia2
[22:15]  * pleia2 hides
[22:15] <Megabyte> pleia2, I think this content needs some more love
[22:15] <Megabyte> pleia2, Some of the information is inaccurate, too
[22:16] <pleia2> Megabyte: right, we don't work on the manual, you want to chat with the manual folks, you can also submit bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[22:16] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: All the various docs need more love. Much more...
[22:16] <pleia2> we work on help.ubuntu.com documentation
[22:16] <Megabyte> pleia2, I'm not sure that is a "bug..."
[22:16] <Megabyte> In the sense that it doesn't make things crash
[22:16] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, I strongly believe that
[22:17] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: It's a perfectly fine docs bug.
[22:17] <pleia2> it's documentation, it doesn't need things to crash for it to be a bug
[22:17] <Megabyte> pleia2, I think it's overstretching to call these "bugs"
[22:17] <Megabyte> It also slows down the process of fixing them
[22:17] <Megabyte> *it / the info
[22:18] <pleia2> Megabyte: even so, please join #ubuntu-manual to chat with them about it, we're a different project
[22:18] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: That's the term which is used on Launchpad. And it doesn't slow things down at all. On the contrary, it helps tracking the issues.
[22:18] <Megabyte> pleia2, I'm already there, but no dice
[22:18] <pleia2> ok
[22:18] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, I'm trying to translate and update the info from the manual
[22:19] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: Aha, great!
[22:19] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, one person alone could do it... the problem is that the Ubuntu Manual is "assembled" in Launchpad, and automated with LaTeX
[22:19] <Megabyte> In a complicated makefile way
[22:20] <knome> pleia2, heh, not asking for anything.. this time.. yet
[22:20] <Megabyte> This makes it hard to actually focus on writing and improving docs
[22:20] <Megabyte> And adds extra layers of complexity
[22:20] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, I'm using LibreOffice with document styles and looking at the PDF side-by-side
[22:21] <belkinsa> GunnarHj, pong.
[22:21] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: Are you a member of ubuntu-manual?
[22:22] <GunnarHj> Hi belkinsa!
[22:22] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, nope. I can't even talk to them, mostly
[22:22] <Megabyte> (No one is there)
[22:22] <belkinsa> What's up?  I was thinking of hosting the Hangout.
[22:23] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: I'd suggest you join the team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
[22:23] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, That I've already done
[22:23] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, Joining through Launchpad
[22:23] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, But using Launchpad to translate this is overkill
[22:23] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: One person who you should try to reach is godbyk (Kevin Godby)
[22:23] <belkinsa> Then you can e-mail the mailing-list.
[22:23] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, That's my whole point, actually
[22:24] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, Ubuntu also lacks tools that would make localizing much more consisteny, like a multilingual glossary
[22:24] <Megabyte> *consistent
[22:24] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: Well, it's the way it's done currently. Once you get used to it it's not very complicated.
[22:25] <Megabyte> GunnarHj, I understand it's the way Ubuntu does it, but I disagree with the process
[22:26] <GunnarHj> Megabyte: It's ok to disagree. But this room isn't the right place to achieve any changes.
[22:27] <GunnarHj> belkinsa: I will be there on the docs roundtable on Wednesday. But I can't log in to the summit site.
[22:28] <belkinsa> That should go Mike Hall. at mhall119@ubuntu.com
[22:28] <belkinsa> Because you can't log in and he might help you.
[22:29] <knome> i guess ultimately this might be a good channel to discuss change, but the change won't happen overnight
[22:29] <belkinsa> Oh, wait mhall119  is here in this channel
[22:29] <GunnarHj> belkinsa: Thanks for the tip. Did you have that problem before?
[22:29] <belkinsa> I never had it
[22:30] <GunnarHj> This is what I get:
[22:30] <GunnarHj> "The username (gunnarhj) with which you tried to log in is already in use for a different account."
[22:30] <belkinsa> knome, I agree and maybe this item could be brought up at the roundtable?
[22:30] <belkinsa> GunnarHj, I never seen that.
[22:30] <belkinsa> Have you cleared the chace?
[22:30] <GunnarHj> belkinsa: Only if people who know anything about the manual participate.
[22:31] <knome> well i don't know if it's that much about the medium
[22:31] <belkinsa> GunnarHj, oh, then never mind.
[22:31] <knome> it's more about the suggest-making person first doing things, getting involved, getting to know people and only then even start discussing about a change
[22:32] <belkinsa> Megabyte, I would suggest that you e-mail the Manual mailing-list for help, someone might reply.
[22:32] <knome> changing the backend because a new contributor around thinks it's a good is too risky.
[22:32] <knome> *a good idea
[22:33] <knome> not to take anything off from the suggestion or say it's a bad idea.
[22:35] <Megabyte> knome, the multilingual glossary is a zero-risk idea, though
[22:35] <Megabyte> It's basically a table with original language, comments, target language, comments
[22:36] <Megabyte> knome, sorry to bring up this example, but it's really one of the best when it comes to an online technical glossary:
[22:36] <Megabyte> http://www.microsoft.com/Language/en-US/Default.aspx
[22:37] <Megabyte> An example of it in action
[22:37] <Megabyte> http://www.microsoft.com/Language/en-US/Search.aspx?sString=desktop&langID=pt-br
[22:55] <knome> who's going to take the time and effort to build it?
[22:56] <knome> who'll make sure the data is inserted?
[22:56] <knome> who'll maintain it?