| ochosi | hm, sorry, as i was away, i lost track of that a bit, what's the status of the xfpm/lls SRU for trusty? | 07:48 |
|---|---|---|
| knome | i haven't heard any news. | 08:04 |
| ochosi | well according to trello it's still "todo" | 08:05 |
| knome | i've told bluesabre and friends i'm available if they need people to be poked or sth | 08:05 |
| ochosi | although i thought it should be at least "doing" | 08:05 |
| knome | i guess. i'd really want it in to be able to stop telling people to read the release notes, and that the fix in the way | 08:05 |
| knome | it just sounds silly stupid that we have the fix for the most critical bug in an LTS release and it's not uploaded... | 08:06 |
| knome | i can't do any of the uploading or other technical stuff, but i'm still willing to help with the social and bureaucratical/process side | 08:06 |
| ochosi | from what i see now, it has been nominated for SRU already by Noskcaj | 08:07 |
| knome | okay | 08:07 |
| ochosi | so the fix is already in utopic | 08:07 |
| ochosi | no idea who to poke about the SRU now | 08:08 |
| knome | yay, bug 266391 | 08:08 |
| ochosi | i guess one of the usual suspects/uploaders? | 08:08 |
| ubottu | bug 266391 in GNU Mailman "difficult to use radio and check boxes in admin interface" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/266391 | 08:09 |
| knome | now if we only get canonical to upgrade to 2.1.19 ;) | 08:09 |
| knome | (when it's out) | 08:09 |
| knome | ochosi, i can look at it if you want, but not right now | 08:09 |
| ochosi | sure, thanks! | 08:09 |
| knome | ochosi, if you want to do $things to make it progress, i'd suggest reading the SRU docs | 08:10 |
| ochosi | already marked as sru: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1303736 | 08:10 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1303736 in xfce4-power-manager "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided,New] | 08:10 |
| knome | which is what i will do when i get back and look at it ;) | 08:10 |
| ochosi | sounds good | 08:10 |
| knome | meh, actually i'll just have a look right now | 08:10 |
| knome | well to begin with, the bug doesn't follow the SRU bug template | 08:11 |
| knome | also just marking the bug to start with [SRU] does *nothing* | 08:12 |
| knome | the sru team does not track that | 08:12 |
| knome | sru team is not subscribed | 08:12 |
| knome | there is no tag that they follow | 08:12 |
| knome | i'd suggest filing a new bug JUST for the SRU | 08:13 |
| knome | to get the things right, have the right tags, subscribe the right people/teams and to be able to work on the SRU verification more easily (the original bug is full of comments already) | 08:14 |
| ochosi | Noskcaj: ^ | 08:16 |
| === zequence_ is now known as zequence | ||
| knome | i acknowledge is boring, and that it might feel hard, but it's not really overwhelmingly difficult to follow the procedure | 08:20 |
| ochosi | +1[5~ | 08:22 |
| ochosi | errr | 08:22 |
| ochosi | +1 | 08:22 |
| ochosi | :) | 08:22 |
| ochosi | (this ^ was not another encoding problem ;)) | 08:22 |
| knome | heh | 08:24 |
| bluesabre | ochosi/knome | 11:47 |
| bluesabre | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1326740 | 11:47 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1326740 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu6 to trusty" [Undecided,In progress] | 11:47 |
| bluesabre | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1326741 | 11:47 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1326741 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to trusty" [Undecided,In progress] | 11:47 |
| bluesabre | both uploaded to -proposed and nominated for SRU | 11:48 |
| bluesabre | Logan_, did you get a chance to upload this to proposed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405 | 11:57 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New] | 11:57 |
| knome | bluesabre, cheers | 12:01 |
| ochosi | ah good, please keep the status of these things up-to-date in trello | 12:40 |
| ochosi | otherwise what good is it | 12:40 |
| ochosi | knome: hey, say have you ever heard of scrollback? | 15:56 |
| ochosi | could be a nice (modern) replacement for the freenode webirc | 15:56 |
| ochosi | http://next.scrollback.io/ | 15:57 |
| ochosi | as an example for embedding scrollback: http://next.scrollback.io/t/numix/http://xubuntu.org/ | 16:01 |
| elfy | can it/how does it log to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | 16:05 |
| ochosi | elfy: it doesn't really take over irc, it just embeds/includes it | 16:15 |
| ochosi | so from how i understand it, it's like webirc in that respect | 16:16 |
| elfy | so it would still be freenode and the normal channel? | 16:16 |
| ochosi | yeah | 16:16 |
| ochosi | just a different way of accessing it | 16:17 |
| elfy | ok - just checking - that'd be my only issue with it :) | 16:17 |
| ochosi | it can also search and group stuff from what i've read, and include certain twitter hashtags | 16:17 |
| elfy | what's twitter ... | 16:18 |
| * ochosi has no idea | 16:18 | |
| ochosi | i only read about it on the tubes | 16:18 |
| * elfy neither | 16:18 | |
| ochosi | seems to be some new truck or something | 16:18 |
| elfy | aaah - ok - works for me then :D | 16:18 |
| knome | ochosi, heh, i thought you were ralking about scrollback scrollback :P | 16:20 |
| knome | ochosi, no, i haven't heard of the scrollback project | 16:20 |
| ochosi | seems that mozilla is also using it in several places | 16:21 |
| knome | it looks like really clunky | 16:22 |
| knome | that is, not really preserving screen space | 16:22 |
| knome | i'd imagine it being horrible to try to get support with that wdiget | 16:22 |
| knome | or even the "fullscreen" mode! | 16:22 |
| === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash | ||
| pleia2 | o/ | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | meeting time, friends | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | #startmeeting | 20:00 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 20:01:12 2014 UTC. The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 20:00 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | who all is here for our Xubuntu team meeting? :) | 20:00 |
| elfy | o/ ish | 20:01 |
| Noskcaj | o/ | 20:02 |
| pleia2 | alright, the rest can trickle in then | 20:02 |
| pleia2 | #topic Open action items | 20:02 |
| pleia2 | knome (and everyone else without accounts yet) - did you sign up for trello? | 20:02 |
| pleia2 | if so, let elfy know your name there so he can add you to the boards we want to add you to | 20:03 |
| pleia2 | that was the only open action item outstanding, so we'll let it go moving forward and bug people outside of meetings if they still need to sign up :) | 20:04 |
| elfy | pleia2: it's knome only I think - skellat and micah are elsewhere afaik | 20:04 |
| pleia2 | ok, thanks | 20:04 |
| pleia2 | #topic Team updates | 20:04 |
| * elfy can do that really quickly this week | 20:05 | |
| pleia2 | thanks | 20:05 |
| pleia2 | #info marketing flyer completion is still pending, content is done, we just need to line up sides for printing | 20:05 |
| elfy | #info Image has been uninstallable up until today - nothing has been done, no testing calls went out - normal service appears to have resumed | 20:05 |
| pleia2 | anything else? Noskcaj or Unit193? | 20:06 |
| Unit193 | Not that I can think of. | 20:07 |
| Noskcaj | pleia2, I've got nothing | 20:07 |
| pleia2 | alrighty | 20:07 |
| pleia2 | #topic Discussion | 20:07 |
| pleia2 | #subtopic Proposal: Use some team money for printing up flyers | 20:07 |
| pleia2 | knome and ochosi were talking a bit about the money that is being held for the team (a couple hundred dollars or so): http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/06/09/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t08:03 | 20:08 |
| pleia2 | a few ideas came up for marketing, one was printing flyers to give out at conferences, another was printing t-shirts to team members to show appreciation for participation in the project (and yay xubuntu) | 20:09 |
| pleia2 | since the flyers are almost done and I attend a lot of conferences, I was hoping to get some feedback on a proposal to print some xubuntu flyers | 20:09 |
| pleia2 | also worthy of note: we spent $40 on the StartUbuntu ones that went down well at SCaLE earlier this year | 20:10 |
| elfy | at this point I'd pretty much +1 anything to stop us having to talk about it | 20:10 |
| pleia2 | alright then, any strong opposition? | 20:11 |
| doubleplusgood | T-Shirts would be nice | 20:11 |
| lderan | aye to t-shirts | 20:11 |
| elfy | pleia2: I'd suggest mailing listing it for TEAM | 20:11 |
| pleia2 | the proposal as discussed was t-shirts given to the folks on this team: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/06/09/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t08:03 | 20:11 |
| pleia2 | err | 20:12 |
| elfy | but I'd +1 t-shirts/more flyers | 20:12 |
| pleia2 | https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active | 20:12 |
| pleia2 | making them more generally available for sale is harder | 20:12 |
| Noskcaj | +1 to any marketing stuff | 20:12 |
| pleia2 | (we'd have to go to a vendor that is reasonably priced and ships internationally, we've gone around this topic a few times) | 20:12 |
| pleia2 | alright, well people seem happy with marketing stuff in general then, so that's mostly what I wanted from this topic | 20:13 |
| pleia2 | #subtopic Any other business | 20:13 |
| pleia2 | anyone else have anything they want to bring up? | 20:13 |
| elfy | not from me | 20:14 |
| elfy | oh yea | 20:14 |
| elfy | you sort of alluded to it earlier - I'd concur - is there any point at all in weekly meetings at the moment? | 20:14 |
| elfy | I'd say not | 20:14 |
| pleia2 | agreed | 20:14 |
| doubleplusgood | agreed | 20:14 |
| pleia2 | next meeting in 2 weeks then? | 20:15 |
| pleia2 | elfy: you're our lucky chair next time! | 20:15 |
| pleia2 | #action elfy to schedule and announce next meeting | 20:15 |
| meetingology | ACTION: elfy to schedule and announce next meeting | 20:15 |
| lderan | sounds good to me | 20:15 |
| elfy | yep - will do that some point soon - somewhen in wk26 | 20:16 |
| pleia2 | ok, thanks everyone | 20:16 |
| pleia2 | #endmeeting | 20:16 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 20:16:43 2014 UTC. | 20:16 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-10-20.01.moin.txt | 20:16 |
| elfy | thanks pleia2 :) | 20:16 |
| pleia2 | sure thing :) | 20:16 |
| elfy | almost as quick as mine's going to be :p | 20:17 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 20:17 |
| pleia2 | I will probably be off in some exotic location (or on a plane) during the next meeting | 20:17 |
| * elfy realises he's on holiday that week - it will be some random time I think | 20:18 | |
| lderan | pleia2, i hope your plane has better inflight entertainment then what i had to endure. 10 hours with the only movie on offer was despicable me 2 on a loop | 20:19 |
| pleia2 | lderan: thanks, I'm flying lufthansa and they tend to have decent selection | 20:20 |
| elfy | but in german? | 20:20 |
| pleia2 | haha | 20:21 |
| pleia2 | not all of them :) | 20:21 |
| pleia2 | ta da! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-06-10 | 20:21 |
| elfy | awesome | 20:22 |
| Unit193 | Well, short meeting indeed. | 20:22 |
| * elfy reported 2 hexchat bugs the other day Unit193 | 20:23 | |
| elfy | both pita :( | 20:23 |
| knome | elfy, i'm now registered to trello via my google account at pasi @ shimmerproject.org | 20:45 |
| elfy | knome: added | 20:46 |
| * Unit193 symlinks pasi to knome. | 20:46 | |
| knome | ta | 20:46 |
| === DalekSec_ is now known as DalekSec | ||
| === halfie_ is now known as halfie | ||
| ochosi | sorry i returned too late :/ | 21:09 |
| ochosi | thanks for holding the meeting pleia2 | 21:10 |
| pleia2 | sure thing | 21:10 |
| ochosi | problem is that i'm abroad for another 3 weeks, so the farewell occasions have already started... | 21:11 |
| elfy | ochosi: you cool with us going twice a month for the moment? | 21:11 |
| === cojennin__ is now known as cojennin | ||
| ochosi | elfy: yeah, makes sense. i think it's ok that this is a more quiet cycle | 21:11 |
| ochosi | we have a bit to digest from last cycle | 21:11 |
| elfy | quiet? | 21:11 |
| elfy | moribund almost :p | 21:11 |
| ochosi | well i'm heavily invested upstream in xfce | 21:11 |
| elfy | but yea - last cycle was rather busy :) | 21:11 |
| ochosi | so is bluesabre | 21:12 |
| ochosi | and then there is the general quietness of ubuntu folks after LTS | 21:12 |
| ochosi | plus the new focus on phone | 21:12 |
| elfy | yep - not complaining :) | 21:12 |
| ochosi | and knome dropping all the balls he learned to juggle during the last few years on me in a week or so.. | 21:13 |
| ochosi | :) | 21:13 |
| * ochosi is a padavan and much to learn he has | 21:13 | |
| elfy | image installs now by the way | 21:13 |
| ochosi | sweet | 21:13 |
| elfy | still not right - but does install | 21:13 |
| ochosi | well, that's something to hold on to i guess | 21:13 |
| elfy | :) | 21:14 |
| ochosi | what troubles are we still in? | 21:14 |
| elfy | no choice at beginning for language, no choice to try or install - basically - it boots to the desktop | 21:14 |
| elfy | but I suspect that will be *buntu - not just us | 21:14 |
| ochosi | yeah, sounds more general | 21:15 |
| elfy | not had time to double check on that | 21:15 |
| ochosi | i heard gtk3.12 has landed meanwhile | 21:15 |
| ochosi | do you know anything about upower0.99? | 21:15 |
| elfy | once I am sure it's not just us we can kinda forget that issue | 21:15 |
| elfy | nothing | 21:15 |
| * ochosi checks trello | 21:16 | |
| Noskcaj | upower 0.99 is waiting on xfce-session, some gnome stuff, and the removal of wmbattery | 21:17 |
| ochosi | but is it in utopic already? | 21:17 |
| ochosi | or is it up to us to decide which version we wanna ship? | 21:17 |
| elfy | ii upower 0.9.23-2ubun | 21:17 |
| * ochosi wishes he were Unit193 with his magic ubottu skills pulling up package versions per release | 21:18 | |
| Noskcaj | ochosi, we'll be shipping 0.99, but its not in utopic yet | 21:18 |
| Unit193 | !info upower utopic-proposed | 21:18 |
| ubottu | Package upower does not exist in utopic-proposed | 21:18 |
| Noskcaj | it's in my PPA and debian experimental | 21:18 |
| Unit193 | Heh, guessed it was in proposed... | 21:19 |
| Noskcaj | and gtk3.12 is currently FTBFS exerywhere | 21:19 |
| ochosi | ftbfs? | 21:19 |
| ochosi | Unit193: thanks for trying though ;) | 21:20 |
| elfy | ochosi: it is at least Ubuntu as well as us | 21:20 |
| ochosi | humm right | 21:20 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: It'd not be in normal repos since things aren't ready for it. In development releases, things get stacked in proposed until the migration is finished, | 21:20 |
| ochosi | well i talked with satya today about getting our themes in shape for 3.12 | 21:20 |
| ochosi | there are basically two options | 21:21 |
| Unit193 | Numix++ | 21:21 |
| ochosi | 1) rewrite them completely using sass (a css pre-processor) | 21:21 |
| ochosi | 2) port them so they work | 21:21 |
| ochosi | it seems that adwaita is being ported to 1), so this might be the more sustainable option | 21:21 |
| ochosi | but also *lots_of_work* | 21:21 |
| ochosi | so yeah, if you know any themers or ppl who wanna contribute to artwork, send them my way | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | any reason why sass? | 21:23 |
| ochosi | we'd mostly follow adwaita because that means you can follow the development of gtk3 more easily | 21:23 |
| ochosi | and since they're considering to port to sass... | 21:23 |
| ochosi | (considering = there is already a branch) | 21:23 |
| Noskcaj | ochosi, since you do upstream stuff, could you see what's needed for xfce-session to do the upower transition (there are 4 different patches in the bugzilla) | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | i can rewrite css as sass if that is helpful | 21:26 |
| ochosi | Noskcaj: ok, i'll discuss it with eric | 21:27 |
| Noskcaj | awesome | 21:27 |
| Noskcaj | And then we'll be all ready for upower | 21:28 |
| ochosi | ali1234: i think it would be useful | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | how exactly does porting them to sass make them work in 3.12 tho? | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | i mean in the end, won't you just get the same css? | 21:28 |
| ochosi | https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/tree/themes/Adwaita?h=wip/sass | 21:28 |
| ochosi | you will, the main advantage is staying in sync with adwaita | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | why "in sync" | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | i know a lot about css but nothing at all about how gtk themes work | 21:29 |
| Noskcaj | ochosi, knome: In response to the SRU question yesterday, I made one bug, no realising bluesabre had already done it, so i've just left my SRU | 21:33 |
| Noskcaj | *not | 21:33 |
| ochosi | ali1234: well gtk3 themes don't work very differently from how you'd expect css to work | 21:43 |
| ochosi | you have a more limited set of options in comparison to the web | 21:44 |
| ochosi | but generally you style widget classes | 21:44 |
| ochosi | or named widgets | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | yeah i get that much | 21:44 |
| ochosi | in gtk2 things are really different, but i guess it's totally not worth it to explain that to anyone anymore | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | but why do you need to be "in sync" with adwaita? | 21:44 |
| ochosi | because gtk3-development = gnome3 development and adwaita = gnome3 default theme | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | so you want to be in sync with gtk3 | 21:45 |
| ochosi | ofc | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | what does that have to do with adeaita? | 21:45 |
| ochosi | it's the only official gtk3 theme in a way | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | do you just want to @import all of adwaita using sass, and then tweak it? | 21:46 |
| ochosi | because adwaita uses its own gtk3 engine, and we use the default engine | 21:46 |
| ali1234 | so how does keeping shimmer themes "in sync" with adwaita help? | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | and what exactly does it mean for them to be in sync? | 21:47 |
| Unit193 | GTK3 changes so often that it gets hard to follow, so you just follow Adwaita? | 21:47 |
| ochosi | yeah, basically that ^ | 21:48 |
| ali1234 | can you make a gtk engine that doesn't support css? | 21:48 |
| ochosi | you mean a gtk3 engine? | 21:48 |
| ali1234 | yes, one where the appearence is just hard coded | 21:48 |
| ochosi | i guess you could | 21:48 |
| ochosi | under the hood, gtk3 is still drawn with cairo afaik, so ofc you can hardcode everything | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | yeah, that would have no benefit if you still used cairo | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | you'd just be hardcoding the css, no performance increase there | 21:50 |
| ochosi | but that's the beauty of gtk3 that you can use the common css syntax | 21:50 |
| ochosi | it really makes things a lot more flexible than with gtk2 | 21:50 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: Can you make it to the next meeting? | 21:50 |
| ochosi | Unit193: i'll try my best, but it hasn't been scheduled yet, so... | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | i would prefer a desktop that has no themes but runs fast | 21:51 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: Wondering as I'd like $us to review the seed change proposals, so we can get any in and upload, and move on with the -core testing. | 21:51 |
| elfy | ochosi: I should be about all day during that week - so if a particular time/day suits you - let me know :) | 21:51 |
| elfy | night | 21:52 |
| Unit193 | elfy: Good night. | 21:52 |
| ochosi | crap, elfy is *fast* | 21:52 |
| ochosi | ali1234: well, "no themes"... all toolkits support themes, you can simply try to use either no engine or a very slim one | 21:53 |
| ali1234 | they didn't used to | 21:53 |
| ali1234 | i thinking windows 3.1 here | 21:54 |
| ochosi | well even gtk1 did support some theming options | 21:54 |
| ochosi | heh | 21:54 |
| ali1234 | you can change some constants like colours | 21:54 |
| ali1234 | that's it | 21:54 |
| ochosi | that's like installing solely gtk2 but no engines or themes | 21:54 |
| ochosi | it's really faster | 21:54 |
| ochosi | and you can only change colors mostly | 21:54 |
| ali1234 | so can you do that on gtk3 by making an engine? | 21:55 |
| ali1234 | or are you forced to use cairo? | 21:55 |
| ochosi | no, well, i dunno how gtk2 itself did draw the widgets | 21:55 |
| ochosi | i never looked into the source of that | 21:55 |
| ochosi | but gtk3 itself and the various engines draw the widgets with cairo | 21:55 |
| ali1234 | well, it had engines, but they were different | 21:55 |
| ochosi | the syntax for customizing them was different | 21:56 |
| ochosi | the engines themselves, not so sure | 21:56 |
| ochosi | meanwhile, sure. but in the beginning, gtk3 was mostly another iteration of gtk2 from what i understood | 21:56 |
| ali1234 | all the engines had to be rewritten, i know that | 21:57 |
| ochosi | yeah, to use more cairo | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | and most of them weren't | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | or it took ages | 21:57 |
| ochosi | and less other stuff | 21:57 |
| ochosi | they werent rewritten because the default engine supplied most of the options of existing gtk2 themes | 21:57 |
| ochosi | so the idea was to get rid of engines | 21:57 |
| ochosi | but gnome3 itself is actually destroying that idea by keeping adwaita | 21:58 |
| ochosi | ubuntu wanted to get rid of unity for ages | 21:58 |
| ochosi | cimi abandoned it at least 4 cycles ago | 21:58 |
| ochosi | which is why we switched to the default engine (meh, lots of work) | 21:58 |
| ochosi | anyway, engines only draw on top of the default engine, i don't know of any tests that prove that any engine is faster than the default | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | well, not having to parse a load of css would certainly make it faster | 21:59 |
| ochosi | it's not that much css | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | also not drawing everything using vector graphics and then converting it to bitmaps | 21:59 |
| ochosi | and gnome3 isn't parsing css, they have a kinda compiled format | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | the amount of css doesn't matter, it's the existence of a css engine that makes it slow | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | every time you draw something you have to look up if there is a rule to affect the way it is drawn | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | simply not doing that would be a performance increase | 22:00 |
| ochosi | we could also use that compiled format and save some energy with it, but it makes maintenance a little harder (not much though) | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | nah, go with sass | 22:01 |
| ochosi | i think there are more efficient ways to improve performance | 22:01 |
| ali1234 | it makes css much less annoying | 22:01 |
| knome | tbh css is okay if you know how to use it | 22:01 |
| ali1234 | css is okay except for the fact it doesn't have constants or nested selectors | 22:01 |
| ochosi | e.g. use a web browser that doesn't eat your cpu or ram or gpu and don't watch too many clips in flash format | 22:01 |
| ali1234 | which is why sass/less exist | 22:01 |
| knome | what do you mean by nested selectors? | 22:02 |
| knome | having no constants actually makes you write better and less redundant css.. | 22:02 |
| knome | well at least how i see it. | 22:02 |
| ochosi | i think better css isn't necessarily what ali1234 is aiming at | 22:03 |
| knome | i understand | 22:03 |
| ochosi | it's more: hardcoded visuals and less queries for "how should it look" | 22:03 |
| ochosi | but i'm not even sure that's possible with gtk3 | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | two different things | 22:03 |
| ochosi | or, if it is, if there's any gain | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | having no constants means you have to find and replace s/#eef/#dde/g on all your css every time you change a colour | 22:04 |
| knome | ali1234, you missed my point. | 22:04 |
| knome | why would you want to specify that in a million places? | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | because you might use that colour on more than one element | 22:05 |
| ali1234 | and you want to change them all because they are supposed to match | 22:05 |
| knome | yeah, so: p, h1, h2 ... | 22:05 |
| knome | { color: red; } | 22:05 |
| knome | ta-dah! | 22:05 |
| ali1234 | yeah what if you don't want all p to be red | 22:05 |
| knome | well, my point is this | 22:05 |
| knome | you should always do good generic rules | 22:06 |
| knome | and overwrite those as little as possible | 22:06 |
| knome | so yeah, just do p.something { color: green; } then | 22:06 |
| knome | and h2.somethingelse | 22:06 |
| knome | but if you need to overwrite loads of stuff, maybe you should *think again* if that's really what the design is asking for | 22:07 |
| ali1234 | then you end up with stuff like p.something, p.somethingelse, p.anotherthing > img, body > p.blah, ... and it just goes on forever | 22:07 |
| ali1234 | that's where nested selectors come in | 22:07 |
| knome | i don't. | 22:07 |
| knome | just *don't do that* | 22:07 |
| ali1234 | there is no way to avoid it | 22:07 |
| knome | if you have a set of things scattered all over the place that need similar styling but are something completely different from each other, maybe you should really add a class to reuse for those. | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | this is especially true when you're trying to theme something like wordpress, where you have almost no control over what classes are in the markup | 22:09 |
| knome | .alis_red_links | 22:09 |
| knome | with premade themes, yeah... | 22:09 |
| knome | but if the theme is half-good, you don't end up with loads and loads of overwrites | 22:09 |
| ali1234 | no, the markup is supposed to be semantic | 22:09 |
| ali1234 | if you have stuff like <p class="red"> then you are doing it wrong | 22:09 |
| knome | unless you want very specific micro-control over things, in which case you need your own theme | 22:10 |
| knome | well, obviously that was a bad example | 22:10 |
| knome | the class name should be highlight or something | 22:10 |
| ali1234 | even if you write your own theme, you still can't control stuff like the classes used on lists, menus, links, etc | 22:10 |
| knome | you can. | 22:10 |
| knome | though the classes used on menus are good enough as they are | 22:10 |
| ali1234 | yeah, because they are semantic | 22:10 |
| knome | but you know, nested selectors wouldn't help in your case | 22:11 |
| knome | which is: | 22:11 |
| knome | p.something, p.somethingelse, | 22:11 |
| knome | p.anotherthing > img, body > p.blah, ... | 22:11 |
| knome | i can agree there are some real life use cases where something like nested selectors would be useful, but those situations are scarse.. | 22:13 |
| ali1234 | they improve readability of the code everywhere | 22:14 |
| knome | that's debatable. | 22:14 |
| knome | and i personally think that if you need to heavily use them, they are starting to create more mess | 22:15 |
| knome | and then you also are doing most probably something wrong | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | here is some actual less code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7625790/ | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | there is no way to rewrite this in pure css and have it shorter and with less duplication | 22:19 |
| knome | i know less. | 22:19 |
| knome | i'm not saying the css frameworks are useless | 22:20 |
| ochosi | knome: i think we could move the 14.04.1 stuff to a new board | 22:54 |
| ochosi | then things would be a bit more vertical | 22:54 |
| knome | that's not the issue... :) | 22:54 |
| knome | i'll just stylish it. | 22:55 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: Thought of that idea before as well. | 22:58 |
| ochosi | knome: let's get a solution that benefits all though... | 22:59 |
| knome | ochosi, i can share ;) | 23:03 |
| knome | and you can drop the 14.04.1 stuff. | 23:03 |
| ochosi | well hopefully we can drop it soon | 23:03 |
| Unit193 | knome already credited all the translators. :D | 23:03 |
| ochosi | right now, i don't see much benefit in it sitting there | 23:03 |
| knome | not really... | 23:04 |
| slickymaster | great news Unit193 | 23:06 |
| slickymaster | Unit193: can I then mark that as done? | 23:07 |
| Unit193 | slickymaster: Sorry, sarcasm. | 23:07 |
| Unit193 | Though it is almost done, IIRC. | 23:07 |
| slickymaster | :( | 23:11 |
| bluesabre | hey folks | 23:45 |
| slickymaster | hey bluesabre | 23:45 |
| ochosi | ahoj bluesabre | 23:47 |
| bluesabre | how are things? | 23:47 |
| ochosi | good, about to go to bed | 23:51 |
| slickymaster | rolling over here bluesabre, how about yourself? | 23:52 |
| bluesabre | pretty good | 23:52 |
| bluesabre | trying to keep up with everything | 23:53 |
| slickymaster | which isn't always easy :) | 23:53 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!