[07:48] <ochosi> hm, sorry, as i was away, i lost track of that a bit, what's the status of the xfpm/lls SRU for trusty?
[08:04] <knome> i haven't heard any news.
[08:05] <ochosi> well according to trello it's still "todo"
[08:05] <knome> i've told bluesabre and friends i'm available if they need people to be poked or sth
[08:05] <ochosi> although i thought it should be at least "doing"
[08:05] <knome> i guess. i'd really want it in to be able to stop telling people to read the release notes, and that the fix in the way
[08:06] <knome> it just sounds silly stupid that we have the fix for the most critical bug in an LTS release and it's not uploaded...
[08:06] <knome> i can't do any of the uploading or other technical stuff, but i'm still willing to help with the social and bureaucratical/process side
[08:07] <ochosi> from what i see now, it has been nominated for SRU already by Noskcaj 
[08:07] <knome> okay
[08:07] <ochosi> so the fix is already in utopic
[08:08] <ochosi> no idea who to poke about the SRU now
[08:08] <knome> yay, bug 266391
[08:08] <ochosi> i guess one of the usual suspects/uploaders?
[08:09] <knome> now if we only get canonical to upgrade to 2.1.19 ;)
[08:09] <knome> (when it's out)
[08:09] <knome> ochosi, i can look at it if you want, but not right now
[08:09] <ochosi> sure, thanks!
[08:10] <knome> ochosi, if you want to do $things to make it progress, i'd suggest reading the SRU docs
[08:10] <ochosi> already marked as sru: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1303736
[08:10] <knome> which is what i will do when i get back and look at it ;)
[08:10] <ochosi> sounds good
[08:10] <knome> meh, actually i'll just have a look right now
[08:11] <knome> well to begin with, the bug doesn't follow the SRU bug template
[08:12] <knome> also just marking the bug to start with [SRU] does *nothing*
[08:12] <knome> the sru team does not track that
[08:12] <knome> sru team is not subscribed
[08:12] <knome> there is no tag that they follow
[08:13] <knome> i'd suggest filing a new bug JUST for the SRU
[08:14] <knome> to get the things right, have the right tags, subscribe the right people/teams and to be able to work on the SRU verification more easily (the original bug is full of comments already)
[08:16] <ochosi> Noskcaj: ^
[08:20] <knome> i acknowledge is boring, and that it might feel hard, but it's not really overwhelmingly difficult to follow the procedure
[08:22] <ochosi> +1[5~
[08:22] <ochosi> errr
[08:22] <ochosi> +1
[08:22] <ochosi>  :)
[08:22] <ochosi> (this ^ was not another encoding problem ;))
[08:24] <knome> heh
[11:47] <bluesabre> ochosi/knome
[11:47] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1326740
[11:47] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1326741
[11:48] <bluesabre> both uploaded to -proposed and nominated for SRU
[11:57] <bluesabre> Logan_, did you get a chance to upload this to proposed?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
[12:01] <knome> bluesabre, cheers
[12:40] <ochosi> ah good, please keep the status of these things up-to-date in trello
[12:40] <ochosi> otherwise what good is it
[15:56] <ochosi> knome: hey, say have you ever heard of scrollback?
[15:56] <ochosi> could be a nice (modern) replacement for the freenode webirc
[15:57] <ochosi> http://next.scrollback.io/
[16:01] <ochosi> as an example for embedding scrollback: http://next.scrollback.io/t/numix/http://xubuntu.org/
[16:05] <elfy> can it/how does it log to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
[16:15] <ochosi> elfy: it doesn't really take over irc, it just embeds/includes it
[16:16] <ochosi> so from how i understand it, it's like webirc in that respect
[16:16] <elfy> so it would still be freenode and the normal channel?
[16:16] <ochosi> yeah
[16:17] <ochosi> just a different way of accessing it
[16:17] <elfy> ok - just checking - that'd be my only issue with it :)
[16:17] <ochosi> it can also search and group stuff from what i've read, and include certain twitter hashtags
[16:18] <elfy> what's twitter ... 
[16:18]  * ochosi has no idea
[16:18] <ochosi> i only read about it on the tubes
[16:18]  * elfy neither 
[16:18] <ochosi> seems to be some new truck or something
[16:18] <elfy> aaah - ok - works for me then :D
[16:20] <knome> ochosi, heh, i thought you were ralking about scrollback scrollback :P
[16:20] <knome> ochosi, no, i haven't heard of the scrollback project
[16:21] <ochosi> seems that mozilla is also using it in several places
[16:22] <knome> it looks like really clunky
[16:22] <knome> that is, not really preserving screen space
[16:22] <knome> i'd imagine it being horrible to try to get support with that wdiget
[16:22] <knome> or even the "fullscreen" mode!
[20:00] <pleia2> o/
[20:00] <pleia2> meeting time, friends
[20:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[20:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 10 20:01:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:00] <pleia2> who all is here for our Xubuntu team meeting? :)
[20:01] <elfy> o/ ish
[20:02] <Noskcaj> o/
[20:02] <pleia2> alright, the rest can trickle in then
[20:02] <pleia2> #topic Open action items
[20:02] <pleia2> knome (and everyone else without accounts yet) - did you sign up for trello?
[20:03] <pleia2> if so, let elfy know your name there so he can add you to the boards we want to add you to
[20:04] <pleia2> that was the only open action item outstanding, so we'll let it go moving forward and bug people outside of meetings if they still need to sign up :)
[20:04] <elfy> pleia2: it's knome only I think - skellat and micah are elsewhere afaik
[20:04] <pleia2> ok, thanks
[20:04] <pleia2> #topic Team updates
[20:05]  * elfy can do that really quickly this week
[20:05] <pleia2> thanks
[20:05] <pleia2> #info marketing flyer completion is still pending, content is done, we just need to line up sides for printing
[20:05] <elfy> #info Image has been uninstallable up until today - nothing has been done, no testing calls went out - normal service appears to have resumed
[20:06] <pleia2> anything else? Noskcaj or Unit193?
[20:07] <Unit193> Not that I can think of.
[20:07] <Noskcaj> pleia2, I've got nothing
[20:07] <pleia2> alrighty
[20:07] <pleia2> #topic Discussion
[20:07] <pleia2> #subtopic Proposal: Use some team money for printing up flyers
[20:08] <pleia2> knome and ochosi were talking a bit about the money that is being held for the team (a couple hundred dollars or so): http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/06/09/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t08:03
[20:09] <pleia2> a few ideas came up for marketing, one was printing flyers to give out at conferences, another was printing t-shirts to team members to show appreciation for participation in the project (and yay xubuntu)
[20:09] <pleia2> since the flyers are almost done and I attend a lot of conferences, I was hoping to get some feedback on a proposal to print some xubuntu flyers
[20:10] <pleia2> also worthy of note: we spent $40 on the StartUbuntu ones that went down well at SCaLE earlier this year
[20:10] <elfy> at this point I'd pretty much +1 anything to stop us having to talk about it 
[20:11] <pleia2> alright then, any strong opposition?
[20:11] <doubleplusgood> T-Shirts would be nice
[20:11] <lderan> aye to t-shirts
[20:11] <elfy> pleia2: I'd suggest mailing listing it for TEAM 
[20:11] <pleia2> the proposal as discussed was t-shirts given to the folks on this team: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/06/09/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t08:03
[20:12] <pleia2> err
[20:12] <elfy> but I'd +1 t-shirts/more flyers
[20:12] <pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active
[20:12] <pleia2> making them more generally available for sale is harder
[20:12] <Noskcaj> +1 to any marketing stuff
[20:12] <pleia2> (we'd have to go to a vendor that is reasonably priced and ships internationally, we've gone around this topic a few times)
[20:13] <pleia2> alright, well people seem happy with marketing stuff in general then, so that's mostly what I wanted from this topic
[20:13] <pleia2> #subtopic Any other business
[20:13] <pleia2> anyone else have anything they want to bring up?
[20:14] <elfy> not from me 
[20:14] <elfy> oh yea
[20:14] <elfy> you sort of alluded to it earlier - I'd concur - is there any point at all in weekly meetings at the moment?
[20:14] <elfy> I'd say not
[20:14] <pleia2> agreed
[20:14] <doubleplusgood> agreed
[20:15] <pleia2> next meeting in 2 weeks then?
[20:15] <pleia2> elfy: you're our lucky chair next time!
[20:15] <pleia2> #action elfy to schedule and announce next meeting
[20:15] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy to schedule and announce next meeting
[20:15] <lderan> sounds good to me
[20:16] <elfy> yep - will do that some point soon - somewhen in wk26
[20:16] <pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
[20:16] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[20:16] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 20:16:43 2014 UTC.  
[20:16] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-10-20.01.moin.txt
[20:16] <elfy> thanks pleia2 :)
[20:16] <pleia2> sure thing :)
[20:17] <elfy> almost as quick as mine's going to be :p
[20:17] <pleia2> hehe
[20:17] <pleia2> I will probably be off in some exotic location (or on a plane) during the next meeting
[20:18]  * elfy realises he's on holiday that week - it will be some random time I think
[20:19] <lderan> pleia2, i hope your plane has better inflight entertainment then what i had to endure. 10 hours with the only movie on offer was despicable me 2 on a loop 
[20:20] <pleia2> lderan: thanks, I'm flying lufthansa and they tend to have decent selection
[20:20] <elfy> but in german?
[20:21] <pleia2> haha
[20:21] <pleia2> not all of them :)
[20:21] <pleia2> ta da! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-06-10
[20:22] <elfy> awesome 
[20:22] <Unit193> Well, short meeting indeed.
[20:23]  * elfy reported 2 hexchat bugs the other day Unit193 
[20:23] <elfy> both pita :(
[20:45] <knome> elfy, i'm now registered to trello via my google account at pasi @ shimmerproject.org
[20:46] <elfy> knome: added 
[20:46]  * Unit193 symlinks pasi to knome.
[20:46] <knome> ta
[21:09] <ochosi> sorry i returned too late :/
[21:10] <ochosi> thanks for holding the meeting pleia2 
[21:10] <pleia2> sure thing
[21:11] <ochosi> problem is that i'm abroad for another 3 weeks, so the farewell occasions have already started...
[21:11] <elfy> ochosi: you cool with us going twice a month for the moment?
[21:11] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, makes sense. i think it's ok that this is a more quiet cycle
[21:11] <ochosi> we have a bit to digest from last cycle
[21:11] <elfy> quiet?
[21:11] <elfy> moribund almost :p
[21:11] <ochosi> well i'm heavily invested upstream in xfce
[21:11] <elfy> but yea - last cycle was rather busy :)
[21:12] <ochosi> so is bluesabre 
[21:12] <ochosi> and then there is the general quietness of ubuntu folks after LTS
[21:12] <ochosi> plus the new focus on phone
[21:12] <elfy> yep - not complaining :)
[21:13] <ochosi> and knome dropping all the balls he learned to juggle during the last few years on me in a week or so..
[21:13] <ochosi> :)
[21:13]  * ochosi is a padavan and much to learn he has
[21:13] <elfy> image installs now by the way 
[21:13] <ochosi> sweet
[21:13] <elfy> still not right - but does install
[21:13] <ochosi> well, that's something to hold on to i guess
[21:14] <elfy> :)
[21:14] <ochosi> what troubles are we still in?
[21:14] <elfy> no choice at beginning for language, no choice to try or install - basically - it boots to the desktop
[21:14] <elfy> but I suspect that will be *buntu - not just us 
[21:15] <ochosi> yeah, sounds more general
[21:15] <elfy> not had time to double check on that 
[21:15] <ochosi> i heard gtk3.12 has landed meanwhile
[21:15] <ochosi> do you know anything about upower0.99?
[21:15] <elfy> once I am sure it's not just us we can kinda forget that issue
[21:15] <elfy> nothing
[21:16]  * ochosi checks trello
[21:17] <Noskcaj> upower 0.99 is waiting on xfce-session, some gnome stuff, and the removal of wmbattery
[21:17] <ochosi> but is it in utopic already?
[21:17] <ochosi> or is it up to us to decide which version we wanna ship?
[21:17] <elfy> ii  upower         0.9.23-2ubun
[21:18]  * ochosi wishes he were Unit193 with his magic ubottu skills pulling up package versions per release
[21:18] <Noskcaj> ochosi, we'll be shipping 0.99, but its not in utopic yet
[21:18] <Unit193> !info upower utopic-proposed
[21:18] <Noskcaj> it's in my PPA and debian experimental
[21:19] <Unit193> Heh, guessed it was in proposed...
[21:19] <Noskcaj> and gtk3.12 is currently FTBFS exerywhere
[21:19] <ochosi> ftbfs?
[21:20] <ochosi> Unit193: thanks for trying though ;)
[21:20] <elfy> ochosi: it is at least Ubuntu as well as us 
[21:20] <ochosi> humm right
[21:20] <Unit193> ochosi: It'd not be in normal repos since things aren't ready for it.  In development releases, things get stacked in proposed until the migration is finished,
[21:20] <ochosi> well i talked with satya today about getting our themes in shape for 3.12
[21:21] <ochosi> there are basically two options
[21:21] <Unit193> Numix++
[21:21] <ochosi> 1) rewrite them completely using sass (a css pre-processor)
[21:21] <ochosi> 2) port them so they work
[21:21] <ochosi> it seems that adwaita is being ported to 1), so this might be the more sustainable option
[21:21] <ochosi> but also *lots_of_work*
[21:22] <ochosi> so yeah, if you know any themers or ppl who wanna contribute to artwork, send them my way
[21:23] <ali1234> any reason why sass?
[21:23] <ochosi> we'd mostly follow adwaita because that means you can follow the development of gtk3 more easily
[21:23] <ochosi> and since they're considering to port to sass...
[21:23] <ochosi> (considering = there is already a branch)
[21:26] <Noskcaj> ochosi, since you do upstream stuff, could you see what's needed for xfce-session to do the upower transition (there are 4 different patches in the bugzilla)
[21:26] <ali1234> i can rewrite css as sass if that is helpful
[21:27] <ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, i'll discuss it with eric
[21:27] <Noskcaj> awesome
[21:28] <Noskcaj> And then we'll be all ready for upower
[21:28] <ochosi> ali1234: i think it would be useful
[21:28] <ali1234> how exactly does porting them to sass make them work in 3.12 tho?
[21:28] <ali1234> i mean in the end, won't you just get the same css?
[21:28] <ochosi> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/tree/themes/Adwaita?h=wip/sass
[21:29] <ochosi> you will, the main advantage is staying in sync with adwaita
[21:29] <ali1234> why "in sync"
[21:29] <ali1234> i know a lot about css but nothing at all about how gtk themes work
[21:33] <Noskcaj> ochosi, knome: In response to the SRU question yesterday, I made one bug, no realising bluesabre had already done it, so i've just left my SRU
[21:33] <Noskcaj> *not
[21:43] <ochosi> ali1234: well gtk3 themes don't work very differently from how you'd expect css to work
[21:44] <ochosi> you have a more limited set of options in comparison to the web
[21:44] <ochosi> but generally you style widget classes
[21:44] <ochosi> or named widgets
[21:44] <ali1234> yeah i get that much
[21:44] <ochosi> in gtk2 things are really different, but i guess it's totally not worth it to explain that to anyone anymore
[21:44] <ali1234> but why do you need to be "in sync" with adwaita?
[21:45] <ochosi> because gtk3-development = gnome3 development and adwaita = gnome3 default theme
[21:45] <ali1234> so you want to be in sync with gtk3
[21:45] <ochosi> ofc
[21:45] <ali1234> what does that have to do with adeaita?
[21:45] <ochosi> it's the only official gtk3 theme in a way
[21:46] <ali1234> do you just want to @import all of adwaita using sass, and then tweak it?
[21:46] <ochosi> because adwaita uses its own gtk3 engine, and we use the default engine
[21:47] <ali1234> so how does keeping shimmer themes "in sync" with adwaita help?
[21:47] <ali1234> and what exactly does it mean for them to be in sync?
[21:47] <Unit193> GTK3 changes so often that it gets hard to follow, so you just follow Adwaita?
[21:48] <ochosi> yeah, basically that ^
[21:48] <ali1234> can you make a gtk engine that doesn't support css?
[21:48] <ochosi> you mean a gtk3 engine?
[21:48] <ali1234> yes, one where the appearence is just hard coded
[21:48] <ochosi> i guess you could
[21:49] <ochosi> under the hood, gtk3 is still drawn with cairo afaik, so ofc you can hardcode everything
[21:49] <ali1234> yeah, that would have no benefit if you still used cairo
[21:50] <ali1234> you'd just be hardcoding the css, no performance increase there
[21:50] <ochosi> but that's the beauty of gtk3 that you can use the common css syntax
[21:50] <ochosi> it really makes things a lot more flexible than with gtk2
[21:50] <Unit193> ochosi: Can you make it to the next meeting?
[21:50] <ochosi> Unit193: i'll try my best, but it hasn't been scheduled yet, so...
[21:51] <ali1234> i would prefer a desktop that has no themes but runs fast
[21:51] <Unit193> ochosi: Wondering as I'd like $us to review the seed change proposals, so we can get any in and upload, and move on with the -core testing.
[21:51] <elfy> ochosi: I should be about all day during that week - so if a particular time/day suits you - let me know :)
[21:52] <elfy> night 
[21:52] <Unit193> elfy: Good night.
[21:52] <ochosi> crap, elfy is *fast*
[21:53] <ochosi> ali1234: well, "no themes"... all toolkits support themes, you can simply try to use either no engine or a very slim one
[21:53] <ali1234> they didn't used to
[21:54] <ali1234> i thinking windows 3.1 here
[21:54] <ochosi> well even gtk1 did support some theming options
[21:54] <ochosi> heh
[21:54] <ali1234> you can change some constants like colours
[21:54] <ali1234> that's it
[21:54] <ochosi> that's like installing solely gtk2 but no engines or themes
[21:54] <ochosi> it's really faster
[21:54] <ochosi> and you can only change colors mostly
[21:55] <ali1234> so can you do that on gtk3 by making an engine?
[21:55] <ali1234> or are you forced to use cairo?
[21:55] <ochosi> no, well, i dunno how gtk2 itself did draw the widgets
[21:55] <ochosi> i never looked into the source of that
[21:55] <ochosi> but gtk3 itself and the various engines draw the widgets with cairo
[21:55] <ali1234> well, it had engines, but they were different
[21:56] <ochosi> the syntax for customizing them was different
[21:56] <ochosi> the engines themselves, not so sure
[21:56] <ochosi> meanwhile, sure. but in the beginning, gtk3 was mostly another iteration of gtk2 from what i understood
[21:57] <ali1234> all the engines had to be rewritten, i know that
[21:57] <ochosi> yeah, to use more cairo
[21:57] <ali1234> and most of them weren't
[21:57] <ali1234> or it took ages
[21:57] <ochosi> and less other stuff
[21:57] <ochosi> they werent rewritten because the default engine supplied most of the options of existing gtk2 themes
[21:57] <ochosi> so the idea was to get rid of engines
[21:58] <ochosi> but gnome3 itself is actually destroying that idea by keeping adwaita
[21:58] <ochosi> ubuntu wanted to get rid of unity for ages
[21:58] <ochosi> cimi abandoned it at least 4 cycles ago
[21:58] <ochosi> which is why we switched to the default engine (meh, lots of work)
[21:59] <ochosi> anyway, engines only draw on top of the default engine, i don't know of any tests that prove that any engine is faster than the default
[21:59] <ali1234> well, not having to parse a load of css would certainly make it faster
[21:59] <ochosi> it's not that much css
[21:59] <ali1234> also not drawing everything using vector graphics and then converting it to bitmaps
[22:00] <ochosi> and gnome3 isn't parsing css, they have a kinda compiled format
[22:00] <ali1234> the amount of css doesn't matter, it's the existence of a css engine that makes it slow
[22:00] <ali1234> every time you draw something you have to look up if there is a rule to affect the way it is drawn
[22:00] <ali1234> simply not doing that would be a performance increase
[22:00] <ochosi> we could also use that compiled format and save some energy with it, but it makes maintenance a little harder (not much though)
[22:01] <ali1234> nah, go with sass
[22:01] <ochosi> i think there are more efficient ways to improve performance
[22:01] <ali1234> it makes css much less annoying
[22:01] <knome> tbh css is okay if you know how to use it
[22:01] <ali1234> css is okay except for the fact it doesn't have constants or nested selectors
[22:01] <ochosi> e.g. use a web browser that doesn't eat your cpu or ram or gpu and don't watch too many clips in flash format
[22:01] <ali1234> which is why sass/less exist
[22:02] <knome> what do you mean by nested selectors?
[22:02] <knome> having no constants actually makes you write better and less redundant css..
[22:02] <knome> well at least how i see it.
[22:03] <ochosi> i think better css isn't necessarily what ali1234 is aiming at
[22:03] <knome> i understand
[22:03] <ochosi> it's more: hardcoded visuals and less queries for "how should it look"
[22:03] <ochosi> but i'm not even sure that's possible with gtk3
[22:03] <ali1234> two different things
[22:04] <ochosi> or, if it is, if there's any gain
[22:04] <ali1234> having no constants means you have to find and replace s/#eef/#dde/g on all your css every time you change a colour
[22:04] <knome> ali1234, you missed my point.
[22:04] <knome> why would you want to specify that in a million places?
[22:05] <ali1234> because you might use that colour on more than one element
[22:05] <ali1234> and you want to change them all because they are supposed to match
[22:05] <knome> yeah, so: p, h1, h2 ...
[22:05] <knome> { color: red; }
[22:05] <knome> ta-dah!
[22:05] <ali1234> yeah what if you don't want all p to be red
[22:05] <knome> well, my point is this
[22:06] <knome> you should always do good generic rules
[22:06] <knome> and overwrite those as little as possible
[22:06] <knome> so yeah, just do p.something { color: green; } then
[22:06] <knome> and h2.somethingelse
[22:07] <knome> but if you need to overwrite loads of stuff, maybe you should *think again* if that's really what the design is asking for
[22:07] <ali1234> then you end up with stuff like p.something, p.somethingelse, p.anotherthing > img, body > p.blah, ... and it just goes on forever
[22:07] <ali1234> that's where nested selectors come in
[22:07] <knome> i don't.
[22:07] <knome> just *don't do that*
[22:07] <ali1234> there is no way to avoid it
[22:08] <knome> if you have a set of things scattered all over the place that need similar styling but are something completely different from each other, maybe you should really add a class to reuse for those.
[22:09] <ali1234> this is especially true when you're trying to theme something like wordpress, where you have almost no control over what classes are in the markup
[22:09] <knome> .alis_red_links
[22:09] <knome> with premade themes, yeah...
[22:09] <knome> but if the theme is half-good, you don't end up with loads and loads of overwrites
[22:09] <ali1234> no, the markup is supposed to be semantic
[22:09] <ali1234> if you have stuff like <p class="red"> then you are doing it wrong
[22:10] <knome> unless you want very specific micro-control over things, in which case you need your own theme
[22:10] <knome> well, obviously that was a bad example
[22:10] <knome> the class name should be highlight or something
[22:10] <ali1234> even if you write your own theme, you still can't control stuff like the classes used on lists, menus, links, etc
[22:10] <knome> you can.
[22:10] <knome> though the classes used on menus are good enough as they are
[22:10] <ali1234> yeah, because they are semantic
[22:11] <knome> but you know, nested selectors wouldn't help in your case
[22:11] <knome> which is:
[22:11] <knome>  p.something, p.somethingelse, 
[22:11] <knome>           p.anotherthing > img, body > p.blah, ...
[22:13] <knome> i can agree there are some real life use cases where something like nested selectors would be useful, but those situations are scarse..
[22:14] <ali1234> they improve readability of the code everywhere
[22:14] <knome> that's debatable.
[22:15] <knome> and i personally think that if you need to heavily use them, they are starting to create more mess
[22:15] <knome> and then you also are doing most probably something wrong
[22:19] <ali1234> here is some actual less code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7625790/
[22:19] <ali1234> there is no way to rewrite this in pure css and have it shorter and with less duplication
[22:19] <knome> i know less.
[22:20] <knome> i'm not saying the css frameworks are useless
[22:54] <ochosi> knome: i think we could move the 14.04.1 stuff to a new board
[22:54] <ochosi> then things would be a bit more vertical
[22:54] <knome> that's not the issue... :)
[22:55] <knome> i'll just stylish it.
[22:58] <Unit193> ochosi: Thought of that idea before as well.
[22:59] <ochosi> knome: let's get a solution that benefits all though...
[23:03] <knome> ochosi, i can share ;)
[23:03] <knome> and you can drop the 14.04.1 stuff.
[23:03] <ochosi> well hopefully we can drop it soon
[23:03] <Unit193> knome already credited all the translators. :D
[23:03] <ochosi> right now, i don't see much benefit in it sitting there
[23:04] <knome> not really...
[23:06] <slickymaster> great news Unit193 
[23:07] <slickymaster> Unit193: can I then mark that as done?
[23:07] <Unit193> slickymaster: Sorry, sarcasm.
[23:07] <Unit193> Though it is almost done, IIRC.
[23:11] <slickymaster> :(
[23:45] <bluesabre> hey folks
[23:45] <slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
[23:47] <ochosi> ahoj bluesabre 
[23:47] <bluesabre> how are things?
[23:51] <ochosi> good, about to go to bed
[23:52] <slickymaster> rolling over here bluesabre, how about yourself?
[23:52] <bluesabre> pretty good
[23:53] <bluesabre> trying to keep up with everything
[23:53] <slickymaster> which isn't always easy :)