=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/06/11/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22314/community-roundtable/ [13:55] dholbach, working on getting the Hangout up? [13:55] yes [13:55] Alright, just checking. [13:56] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYezOmrGG6RMkrpKJ5busGYaORG2gr7Kc3FXVGc_kEsrEM1EYA for whoever wants to join [13:58] You said that you redoing it, right, dholbach? [13:59] belkinsa: yep, but you can join as well if you like [13:59] belkinsa: the hangout is started already [13:59] Oh, it's the same one? [14:00] o/ [14:00] o/ [14:00] It made already. [14:01] etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-community-roundtable [14:01] do we have a link again? [14:01] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYezOmrGG6RMkrpKJ5busGYaORG2gr7Kc3FXVGc_kEsrEM1EYA [14:01] belkinsa, yeah, and I was wondering if someone could paste it here [14:01] Bah, too many people [14:02] * czajkowski hugs dholbach [14:02] soo many dates [14:02] why not merge them into one [14:02] one busy week of crazyness [14:03] and then do them at differnt times of the day so people can join them [14:03] even try a saturday [14:03] core app hack days \o/ [14:03] * dholbach hugs czajkowski back :) [14:04] I think some people are finding we have so many online events that people cannot find the time to attend them all [14:04] and there is a masssive overlapping in them [14:04] I think doing it over the weekend would help mhall119 [14:04] meeting people half way would help a lot to increaase particpation [14:05] Yeah, we have three zones, Europe, Asia, and the Americas [14:05] what about looking at doing the same session [14:06] twice aday [14:06] a day at differnet times? [14:06] so you get the community attending at a time that suits [14:06] but as dpm points out it is down to the driver of the meeting [14:06] it may not always be so easy [14:06] Twice a day could work or have a full day of doing it, 24 hours for different people. [14:08] dpm: indeed I don't think it would work for all sessions but be nice to vary it a little. [14:08] yeah [14:09] do we have any other subjects which should be discussed during the roundtable as well? [14:09] So, panels wouldn't work for people? [14:09] popey: indeed for presentations it's not needed [14:09] dholbach: not sure if this has been brought up already, but can we set in stone the dates now for the next online UDS? [14:10] so people know in advance I know this was raised a while back [14:10] Agreed, we need maybe a month in advance of a motice. [14:10] czajkowski, sure... we can pick one, discuss it here, propose it to release team (and others), then announce [14:10] notiice* [14:10] dholbach: bingo [14:10] the last time we did it this way [14:10] and I think that worked well [14:12] oh you should do the 24hr madness again [14:12] if only to see how crazy you go [14:12] no [14:12] no, no no [14:13] ah go on [14:13] Maybe research some communities and see what they do for these type of things? [14:13] just because the event goes on longer doesnt mean we need to fill every hour. can leave like a lunch time gap/nap time and break up the day [14:13] people are working!, we need this sessions on weekends! [14:16] which will be hard [14:16] for Emea for holidays as well [14:16] so people take a lot of time off as well [14:16] Alining them? [14:16] Yeah, I agree. I have classes during that time of the UOS's. [14:16] czajkowski: are you able to join the hangout? [14:16] mhall119: in set up for my event :) [14:16] mutlitasking sorry :/ [14:18] PabloRubianes, which session would you like to see on weekends? things like demo sessions? [14:18] or presentations? [14:18] dholbach: at least the community session [14:19] maybe some week days and a saturday [14:20] not all in the weekend but one day that people don't work [14:20] like the bug jams [14:20] PabloRubianes: I like that thought [14:21] I am having an awful connection so I am not watching the hangout [14:21] :( [14:21] I'm in the Hangout and my computer is not handling it well [14:21] hangouts like to turn my CPU into a furnace [14:21] belkinsa_web, it's getting too hot? [14:22] PabloRubianes, bah :-/ [14:22] Funny, no. But too many people in one just lags my computer [14:23] dholbach: yeah [14:23] User days were [14:23] on weekends [14:24] also taking from the LoCo council perspective, we give a session on this summit for the time availability, [14:24] we did not* [14:24] Maybe we could have a LoCo UOS on the weekend of the UOS week? [14:25] community folks give up their weekends to work on Ubuntu [14:25] czajkowski: Indeed. [14:25] belkinsa_web: we had a plan to have a similar idea, but we need to plan it right [14:25] so I don;t think it's completely unreasonable to give up one day over a weekend by Ubuntu enginners to work on Ubuntu once a cycle [14:26] If doing four summits a year, should try one on a weekend. [14:26] czajkowski, engineers also need life back on the weekend, we've got people working 12 hours a day during the week too [14:27] I think we need to plan now and be ready for the next one a month before it [14:27] dpm: I do agree, but you could and I would argue community people give up their days adn evenings they too would like a life also at the weekend or the evneings when they give it up for bug jams [14:28] dpm, I don't think anyone is proposing weekend work _in addition_ to weekday duties. When my employees need to time-shift duties, I make it possible. [14:28] well, I've been (and I am :) on both sides, and that would mean engineers have an obligation to work both during the week and weekends [14:29] * belkinsa_web really wants a new powerful computer ;/ [14:32] dpm: I am not taking about enginners, am talking about community session [14:32] PabloRubianes, yeah, I understand, I was replying to Laura [14:32] We need to focus on the community folks too. [14:33] He's Michael Hall's room taking flight ? ^^' Is it a lighted fan ? [14:33] Maybe the classroom team could get some track/session ideas on the UOS and have them on Hangouts on Air. [14:33] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule [14:33] Murazaki, you guessed it [14:33] Murazaki: just a fan, looks better on video than in real live [14:34] belkinsa_web, sure [14:34] Work item? [14:35] belkinsa_web, sorry, I meant to say that the classroom would surely have some ideas :) [14:35] Yeah [14:36] How would a testing session work? Just wondering. [14:36] belkinsa_web, what do you mean a testing session? [14:37] belkinsa_web: running through checkbox and such [14:37] or generally using the dev release and reporting bugs [14:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Testing [14:38] I need to think on what I just asked [14:39] do we have any other subjects to discuss in this community roundtable? [14:40] Maybe packing into big events might be a good idea (with UOS). [14:40] July tends to be conference season [14:40] Oscon [14:40] Or have UOS styled events. [14:40] yea.. summer in general isn't a good time, heh [14:41] balloons: it really isn't [14:42] No time will be great every three months. There will always be interference and conflicts. But not everybody needs to show up at every event. [14:42] july 20-24 [14:42] Maybe we need to see how many folks are attending the UGJ by poll or something. [14:43] belkinsa_web, ask by poll to see if we don't overlap with another conference? [14:44] belkinsa_web, or in general to see how many attend global jam events? [14:44] dholbach: The latter might work the best. [14:44] we sort of do that with loco.u.c [14:45] That works, mhall119 [14:45] last time: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/2656/ [14:46] anyone on IRC running Ubuntu Hours events? [14:46] http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/2662/ [14:47] do we have any other topics apart from "events in this cycle" we want to discuss? [14:47] I like that idea, the weekly cimmunity hour on Hangouts on Air [14:48] Try for another track today or tomorrow? [14:49] Maybe we can have both suvery and Hangout? [14:50] belkinsa_web, the survey is going to happen in any case [14:50] belkinsa_web, which hangout would you like to do? [14:50] Hangout on Air after the UOS to talk about what needs to work on and that tsuff. [14:50] stuff* [14:52] I think with the ones who gone to Community and Users tracks. [14:54] Thanks for the session. [14:54] thank you :) [14:54] o/ [14:55] dholbach: will you start the HO for the next session? [14:55] yep [14:55] on it === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Users | From fix to image: how your patch makes it into Ubuntu | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22263/how-code-contributions-make-it-into-ubuntu/ [14:55] \o/ [14:56] sil2100, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdbntNZ9rVjC1nliza-Y-O9uhGvpwU6IdYLpvVb5FjkTdzt5A [15:01] Going live in 5... [15:01] 4... [15:01] 3... [15:01] 2... [15:01] 1... [15:01] =) [15:02] previous session slides are: [15:02] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10SbMhkHuTpgVEncv8Fp_A8is0stDKwuMiCAYEFNiw40/edit?usp=sharing [15:02] http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/ [15:04] please keep your questions coming! :) [15:24] do we have questions for Łukasz? [15:31] is there a link for basic lander training? [15:32] QUESTION: is there a link / doc for basic lander training? [15:32] mwenning: i'll ask that to sil2100 right after current question. [15:38] any more questions? :) [15:41] Thank you o/ [15:41] Oh, an now my firefox crashed even, yay [15:42] thanks, good stuff [15:42] yeah, I'm super happy with all the great work you and others put into getting the landings right === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/06/11/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html [17:27] who's kicking off the documentation team hangout? belkinsa, pleia2 maybe? if not, I could do it as well [17:27] I am doing it [17:28] On it [17:29] I know that someone is kicking off the Kubuntu one [17:32] Almost ready [17:34] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw?authuser=0&hl=en [17:34] To join ^^ [17:36] belkinsa, brilliant, thanks [17:44] The roundtable will start in less than 20 minutes in #ubuntu-uds-community-1 and the Hangout link is (to join): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw?authuser=0&hl=en [17:49] The roundtable will start in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-uds-community-1 and the Hangout link is (to join): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw?authuser=0&hl=en === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Documentation Team Roundtable June 2014 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22234/community-1406-ubuntu-documentation-team/ [17:51] * belkinsa waits [17:53] The roundtable will start in less than 10 minutes in #ubuntu-uds-community-1 and the Hangout link is (to join): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw?authuser=0&hl=en [17:54] dholbach, are you free for this session? [17:56] The roundtable will start in less than 5 minutes in #ubuntu-uds-community-1 and the Hangout link is (to join): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw?authuser=0&hl=en [17:57] Who is here for the round table? [17:57] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw?authuser=0&hl=en to join [17:57] <- kind of [17:58] IRC or Hangout, knome? [17:58] just irc, and even that a bit on/off [17:58] Okay. [17:59] just ping me if you need me to answer or give an opinion on something [17:59] Okay, but I think you are only one here [17:59] well, that's ok [17:59] i mean, for me [17:59] i'll have the hangout open [18:00] or the stream tbe [18:00] i can try to catch if you ask me something there ;) [18:00] The link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JmBVSRVIWY4 [18:00] yeah, i have it open [18:00] pmatulis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JmBVSRVIWY4 [18:01] Pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-community-1406-ubuntu-documentation-team [18:01] belkinsa_web, yes, I can attend [18:01] Alright, just checking [18:01] yay for dholbach on the camera [18:02] Are the nickname and pw the ones used for launchpad? [18:03] raub: you can use any, but the LP one be better [18:03] Or I can just type here? [18:03] You can. [18:03] is anyone else joining in? [18:03] joining the hangout I mean [18:03] Or join the hangout if you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JmBVSRVIWY4 [18:03] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw [18:04] dholbach has the right link [18:04] http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-community-1406-ubuntu-documentation-team is the pad [18:04] I will then type here since I am at work [18:04] Okay [18:05] belkinsa_web: you can talk about the poll idea [18:05] is nobody of the docs team joining the hangout? [18:06] I am trying, but the data squirrels are slow today [18:06] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-June/018962.html [18:07] how do i join the hangout? [18:07] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-May/018920.html [18:07] pmatulis: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw [18:07] pmatulis: there should be a link just above the video [18:07] pmatulis: the plus.hangout link dholbach put up [18:07] ^^^^ [18:08] I type slowly [18:08] Though I am still waiting for the hangout to let me in :( [18:09] Fixed that link [18:10] are we having technical difficulty? [18:10] It's fixed [18:10] I am. Can't join the hangout [18:10] The hangout link was wrong [18:10] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw is the link [18:11] I am still in a "Please Wait..." screen in the hangout [18:13] xubuntu uses docbook to write the docs, we can export the same stuff to web [18:13] so the docs are available in both places [18:13] making it web only is a restriction as well [18:13] Agreed, we needboth forms [18:14] though i understand the pros of not being tied to (release) schedules [18:14] Risking sounding like certain companies that steal their customer's souls, would it be possible to record how often a given machine access the docs? [18:14] So we can have actual data [18:15] raub: local docs? [18:15] yeah [18:15] I don't think that would be possible/acceptable [18:16] we could maybe use popcon to see how many have installed the docs packages, if (a) they are separate -doc packages and (b) they aren't isntalled by default or as a recommends [18:16] mhall119, that's not the number we want; all regular xubuntu installations *have* the docs [18:17] we'd like to know how many actually *use* them [18:17] right, so we'd have record and report file access.....that won't be popular [18:17] yeah, not really [18:17] I wonder how to get data without being google [18:17] take it away and count how many people complain :) [18:18] mhall119, how do the people who have no internet access and need the offline docs complain? ;) [18:18] also, vocal minority [18:18] pmatulis: Where would we find the average desktop user so we can put the poll there? [18:18] yeah, no good way to get this info [18:19] you could keep the same infra, and have packaged docs, and online (web) docs [18:19] the packaged docs could point to the "updated" online docs [18:19] which could be updated regardless of where you are in the release schedule [18:20] could you guys join the hangout as well? :) [18:20] couldn't we also SRU new docs after release? [18:20] Link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfs-LezOGpwYbtjHH5WGSrWEWJlDz0_qvciVDrRmseAly4gtw [18:20] dholbach, can't right now, i'm afraid [18:20] maybe try different browsers if your current doesn't work [18:20] knome, ok [18:20] mhall119, yeah, that too [18:21] mhall119, but peter's main argument seems to be "the bureaucracy slows down our progress" [18:21] What if the in-computer docs will have enough useful info to get the basics running, including getting online? Then the online docs would be more abridged [18:22] er, UNabridged [18:22] yep, happening, and we will land an SRU for xubuntu 14.04.x [18:22] i.e. more crap [18:22] I was just looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/ubuntu-help/whats-new.html [18:22] I do agree that too much bureaucracy does slow things down [18:23] ubuntu community help [18:23] dholbach, help.ubuntu.com/community [18:23] https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-docs/utopic I guess [18:24] mhall119: I think there should be enough docs in the desktop to get it up and running and connected to the net [18:24] pmatulis, you can keep on working on the documentation after the freezes, and put the latest revisions online [18:25] yeah, the release team should be relatively liberal on updating docs after freezes.. [18:26] We still have no driver for Desktop [18:26] i think the only reason why freezes happen as soon as they do now is that there needs to be some time to handle the uploads [18:26] dholbach, ^ [18:27] Are there any people from the desktop team here? [18:27] so if there was a person or two who could commit uploading the docs later, the freezes could happen later easily [18:28] dholbach, i agree. but that's what the doc team wiki says. [18:28] ok :) [18:28] About docs deadline, why not just have one deadline a year? I mean, how much should it change between pickls.04 and pickles.10? [18:28] We can't, we have cycles that are 6 months long. [18:29] belkinsa_web: how much does the releases really change between cycles? [18:29] pmatulis, sure, i understand. but what are the late changes you need to do? [18:29] Good point. [18:29] pmatulis, i mean, why weren't they been done earlier? [18:30] the rest of the community can (kind of) commit to schedules, why can't documentation? [18:30] or why is it so different for documentation? [18:31] I think we don't have enough man power. [18:31] As pmatulis says [18:31] then the problem is not the bureaucracy or the processes but the amount of contributors. [18:31] Recruitment issues. [18:31] with an LTS release, it may be possible to defer the final docs until the .01 point release to give more time for revision and translation cycles [18:32] * raub is guilty of that [18:32] would the more appropriate question be how the developers of certain apps/parts of the system can help the documentation team? [18:33] developers make very poor documenters [18:33] knome: that would be a good question [18:33] I'm adding notes right now (http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-community-1406-ubuntu-documentation-team) [18:34] documentation is an ideal entry point for non-technical contributers, perhaps that should be stressed in the "how can I contribute?" material [18:35] QUESTION: is there a definitive list of "official" documention, who owns it, and how to get involved or contribute to each? [18:35] Maybve that link can be included on the main page? [18:35] The main COmmunity Help Wiki page [18:35] Is the recruiting problem that nobody wants to help? Or do new helpers get scared/demotivated and drop away? [18:36] dholbach, re: gunnar, i don't know, i believe he was only going to pick up ubuntu-docs [18:36] Ali talked about that and we are missing that link [18:36] knome, in that case, he could probably help with other packages or apply for upload rights for them too, or somebody else should apply [18:37] it's not overly bureaucratic - either throw up a merge proposal or file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors [18:37] dholbach, i think the answer to the question if he'd like to do that was "not really", so yeah, somebody else needs to.. [18:37] let me know if stuff doesn't get sponsored [18:37] dholbach, i understand that and it's not a problem for our team, but i was thinking about the documentation stuff generally [18:37] to me it doesn't look like the biggest problem in the whole docs process - I'm happy to help with sponsorship as well [18:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam [18:38] some packages always seem to be stalling for a reason or another :/ [18:38] dholbach, probably not [18:38] some stuff might stall, yes - I agree and I'm not saying it's perfect [18:38] let me know if things stall [18:39] after a few sponsored uploads, some doc member can apply for upload rights themselves then :) [18:39] i don't think you need to be a member of any team to do a merge proposal [18:39] mhall119, ^ [18:39] knome, no, you don't [18:39] ah sorry [18:39] I misunderstood :) [18:39] ignore me :) [18:40] i can help with upgrading the community help wiki frontpage (to ensure it keeps looking good) [18:40] Good because I do not know how to go anymore from the main ubuntu site to the server docs [18:40] shame on me! [18:40] pmatulis: can you post it here too? [18:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuDesktopGuide [18:42] knome, I noted down an action for you :) [18:42] For information on contributing see the Ubuntu Documentation Team wiki page. [18:42] help.ubuntu.com says that ^ [18:43] lots of people [18:43] Why not have links to the, say, intro to bazaar? [18:43] on the main doc page? [18:43] or how to use this thing [18:43] For the Kubuntu Doc team roundtable, who is kicking it off? [18:43] If you already know how to use it, don't click th elink [18:43] valorie: want to kick us off? [18:44] I will be joining too, but not kicking it off. [18:44] raub, contributions on improving the team page are welcome [18:44] But thank you, ahoneybun. [18:44] for belkinsa? [18:45] Giving me a update. [18:45] oh I'll kick us off if I need to [18:45] pmatulis, that makes me think if canonical could help with that at all. [18:46] the documentation team wiki is a bit sloppy [18:46] Maybe in this cycle, we can clean it up? [18:46] knome: throw me a link to it and I'll look at it [18:46] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam [18:47] to me it looks like the wiki might overcomplicate some things. [18:47] pmatulis, they aren't called documentation any more [18:47] pmatulis, it's called community help wiki now [18:48] I mean we don't really work on that as that is the main ubuntu docs team page, but I'll help if I can [18:49] Yeah, they are just help guides [18:49] The UF are [18:49] and AskUbunti [18:49] Ubuntu* [18:49] * ahoneybun is confused [18:50] knome: point taken [18:50] the kubuntu session has not started right [18:50] ahoneybun: everyone is googling for the answer [18:50] Oh, sorry [18:51] 19:00 is 3pm to New york [18:51] got to go. thanks belkinsa_web, dholbach for running the meeting [18:51] Not a problem [18:51] ahoneybun, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions [18:51] Look at this [18:54] Is the timer off? [18:54] Its' 54 not 55 === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Kubuntu Documentation Team Roundtable June 2014 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22242/community-1406-kubuntu-documentation-team/ [18:55] https://plus.google.com/events/c2nq9rtu3gubkj4927ulpglm1ps [18:56] dholbach: I managed to freeze Unity [18:56] thanks guys! :) [18:56] mhall119, oopsie [18:56] thanks everyone [18:56] * mhall119 goes to reboot [18:56] * belkinsa_web needs one too [18:56] is anyone going to run the kubuntu docs meeting? [18:57] ahoneybun: do you need to invite me or something? [18:57] the link you posted only allows me to "watch" [18:57] valorie, ahoneybun: are you setting up the hangout? :) [18:58] dholbach: I got it set up just need to send links [18:58] ah got it [18:58] What;s the hangout link? [18:59] the one to join? [18:59] https://plus.google.com/events/c2nq9rtu3gubkj4927ulpglm1ps [18:59] do I air it? [18:59] but I think there is another one [18:59] start broadcast? [19:00] What is it again? [19:00] https://plus.google.com/events/c2nq9rtu3gubkj4927ulpglm1ps [19:00] ahoneybun: did you follow the uds/sessions link? [19:00] button at the bottom [19:00] Yeah, it's not the one [19:01] you're live! [19:01] ahoneybun: pls DO wear headphones! [19:01] ahoneybun: it's the one that you get when in the hangout and the sound needs to be fixed [19:01] your background noises are terrible :( [19:01] Headphones please. [19:02] better? [19:02] there is a delay [19:02] your ac is killing the sound [19:02] ok turned that off [19:03] how do I invite people to the hangout [19:03] ahoneybun, just paste the URL in here [19:03]