| ochosi | (late) morning everyone | 08:29 |
|---|---|---|
| Noskcaj | evening ochosi | 08:32 |
| ochosi | ok folks, so we have an extras PPA that we can populate with apps that aren't in any repo yet: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/extras | 08:58 |
| ochosi | Unit193, Noskcaj, bluesabre ^ | 08:59 |
| * Unit193 isn't in dev. | 09:47 | |
| ochosi | Unit193: let's work on that | 10:16 |
| ochosi | meanwhile you can still prep packages that one of us can then push there | 10:17 |
| Unit193 | Meh. Anywho, copy anything from /xfce you like, though might want to tell me what so I can ping if/when I update it. | 10:22 |
| knome | +1 for Unit193 in -dev | 10:22 |
| Unit193 | (I'm not actually a dev) Meh, I'm find with things being under review, really. | 10:23 |
| ochosi | yeah, well the whole asking when something's updated is the reason why i think you should be able to do it yourself | 10:26 |
| === cojennin__ is now known as cojennin | ||
| Unit193 | ochosi: Want thunar-dropbox-plugin in there? | 12:12 |
| === lderan_ is now known as lderan | ||
| === olli_ is now known as olli | ||
| === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash | ||
| === cojennin__ is now known as cojennin | ||
| Noskcaj | ochosi, i too am not in dev. | 20:18 |
| Noskcaj | I'll add the embed plugin when i get the chance, since corsac never uploaded it | 20:18 |
| Noskcaj | debian xfpm now "replace consolekit recommends by libpam-systemd, and add systemd-shim | system-sysv as well in order to not force systemd as init to users for now." | 20:39 |
| Noskcaj | Is that a change we don't want? I've not been following systemd | 20:39 |
| Unit193 | Noskcaj: We already have that, not an issue. | 20:44 |
| Noskcaj | ok. I'll merge as soon as the branch is ready | 20:44 |
| Unit193 | xfce4-session, lightdm, ligghtdm-gtk-greeter and perhaps others got the same thing. | 20:45 |
| Noskcaj | yep | 20:47 |
| brainwash | ochosi: any idea how to tell/encourage people to also file upstream reports? flooding the Xfce tracker won't help in most cases, but having only lp reports doesn't help either | 22:14 |
| knome | brainwash, while it's boring and repetitive, one way is to comment on the LP bugs.. | 22:25 |
| knome | brainwash, the other option is to file relevant bugs on the xfce bugzilla yourself | 22:25 |
| brainwash | could someone from -team do that? | 22:26 |
| knome | why would somebody in the -team do that? | 22:27 |
| brainwash | good question | 22:29 |
| knome | wouldn't it be better if somebody else did it rather than waste the time of people who are already committed to the project? | 22:32 |
| brainwash | it would be | 22:37 |
| brainwash | however, bug tracking is not a waste of time | 22:37 |
| knome | well, no | 22:37 |
| knome | but i don't want, say, bluesabre do bug tracking instead of actually fixing bugs | 22:38 |
| knome | time comes in finite amounts | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | there is a template comment for "please file an upstream bug" | 22:40 |
| ali1234 | i often send bug reports upstream | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | because it's quicker than trying to explain how to use bugzilla | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: why did you subscribe me to that flash bug today? | 22:43 |
| ali1234 | because you knew i had a workaround for it? | 22:44 |
| ali1234 | or because of some weirdness on lp? | 22:44 |
| brainwash | so you could add a nice comment which explains why the bug is happening :) | 22:44 |
| ali1234 | there's no nice explanation for it unfortunately... it happens because flash detects when focus changes and unmaximizes itself. so it is "by design" | 22:45 |
| ali1234 | the workaround is to patch xlib so it drops those events instead of sending them to the window | 22:45 |
| ali1234 | (which i do at runtime) | 22:46 |
| brainwash | I know about the workaround | 22:46 |
| brainwash | so there is no chance to get it fixed officially (in ubuntu)? | 22:46 |
| ali1234 | none at all | 22:46 |
| ali1234 | unless abode fixes it, which they definitely won't | 22:47 |
| ali1234 | they didn't even fix it when all videos were playing with reversed chroma (aka the smurf bug) | 22:47 |
| brainwash | I see | 22:49 |
| brainwash | what was the deal with the new present extension? | 22:50 |
| brainwash | didn't you want to utilize it? | 22:50 |
| brainwash | vsync stuff | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | yeah... no support from the video drivers yet | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | it's really easy to just patch it in | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | but nobody can use it | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | it directly replaces XRender | 22:51 |
| brainwash | right, 14.10 won't support it yet I guess | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | maybe if you use intel or nouveau | 22:52 |
| brainwash | or maybe | 22:52 |
| brainwash | yeah | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | just look for DRI3 and Present extensions | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | you'll probably have them | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | but they won't actually fix tearing unless the video driver implements them properly, which they don't | 22:53 |
| ali1234 | currently they just fake it by passing it throgh to XRender | 22:53 |
| brainwash | intel supports them now | 22:53 |
| ali1234 | intel already has tear-free with DRM | 22:53 |
| brainwash | yes, and it has been improved a lot | 22:53 |
| brainwash | tearfree is even better than xr_glx_hybird (compton) | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | i don't want to add yet another rendering backend and config option | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | yes, it should be | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | and present should be even better | 22:54 |
| brainwash | an it is finally :) | 22:54 |
| brainwash | even better o.o | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | present can go one stage further and do proper double buffering | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | where the app actually knows which buffer is being displayed | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | that's a bit more complex to implement though | 22:55 |
| brainwash | sounds promising | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | but the thing is, i want to wait until present is widely supported, and then just drop all the other hacks | 22:56 |
| ali1234 | and by widely supported i mean nvidia binary driver supports it | 22:56 |
| brainwash | this will take some time, but a tear free experience ootb is really needed | 22:58 |
| brainwash | especially since it's already 2014 | 22:59 |
| ali1234 | go to https://devtalk.nvidia.com and ask them to support present | 23:05 |
| ochosi | funny that there doesnt seem to be a related discussion yet in that forum | 23:16 |
| ali1234 | that's because it is mostly users who know nothing. tinkerers, if you will | 23:20 |
| ali1234 | every other thread is complaining about tearing though | 23:20 |
| ochosi | mmm | 23:26 |
| ochosi | tearing is really one of the basic aspects where linux limps behind other OSs | 23:26 |
| ali1234 | only if you use the proprietary drivers | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | the actual place where linux lags behind is in decent 3d acceleration | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | only intel has quality drivers, and their hardware is rubbish | 23:29 |
| ochosi | i dunno, nouveau didn't seem to improve tearing issues at all here | 23:30 |
| ochosi | all it did was push my fan to 100% | 23:30 |
| ochosi | (constantly) | 23:30 |
| ali1234 | nouveau has present now | 23:31 |
| ochosi | oh, it does? | 23:32 |
| ochosi | not bad, if that worked, i guess i'd switch | 23:32 |
| ali1234 | all software is bad, all computers suck.... | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | anything more complex than 8 bit microcontrollers is basically guaranteed to not work properly | 23:37 |
| ochosi | makes you wonder why we ever managed to put a man on the moon or a rover on mars though | 23:41 |
| ochosi | can't be *that* bad | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | that was done with 8 bit computers | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | the question is why can't we do it today? | 23:43 |
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