[08:29] (late) morning everyone [08:32] evening ochosi [08:58] ok folks, so we have an extras PPA that we can populate with apps that aren't in any repo yet: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/extras [08:59] Unit193, Noskcaj, bluesabre ^ [09:47] * Unit193 isn't in dev. [10:16] Unit193: let's work on that [10:17] meanwhile you can still prep packages that one of us can then push there [10:22] Meh. Anywho, copy anything from /xfce you like, though might want to tell me what so I can ping if/when I update it. [10:22] +1 for Unit193 in -dev [10:23] (I'm not actually a dev) Meh, I'm find with things being under review, really. [10:26] yeah, well the whole asking when something's updated is the reason why i think you should be able to do it yourself === cojennin__ is now known as cojennin [12:12] ochosi: Want thunar-dropbox-plugin in there? === lderan_ is now known as lderan === olli_ is now known as olli === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash === cojennin__ is now known as cojennin [20:18] ochosi, i too am not in dev. [20:18] I'll add the embed plugin when i get the chance, since corsac never uploaded it [20:39] debian xfpm now "replace consolekit recommends by libpam-systemd, and add systemd-shim | system-sysv as well in order to not force systemd as init to users for now." [20:39] Is that a change we don't want? I've not been following systemd [20:44] Noskcaj: We already have that, not an issue. [20:44] ok. I'll merge as soon as the branch is ready [20:45] xfce4-session, lightdm, ligghtdm-gtk-greeter and perhaps others got the same thing. [20:47] yep [22:14] ochosi: any idea how to tell/encourage people to also file upstream reports? flooding the Xfce tracker won't help in most cases, but having only lp reports doesn't help either [22:25] brainwash, while it's boring and repetitive, one way is to comment on the LP bugs.. [22:25] brainwash, the other option is to file relevant bugs on the xfce bugzilla yourself [22:26] could someone from -team do that? [22:27] why would somebody in the -team do that? [22:29] good question [22:32] wouldn't it be better if somebody else did it rather than waste the time of people who are already committed to the project? [22:37] it would be [22:37] however, bug tracking is not a waste of time [22:37] well, no [22:38] but i don't want, say, bluesabre do bug tracking instead of actually fixing bugs [22:38] time comes in finite amounts [22:40] there is a template comment for "please file an upstream bug" [22:41] i often send bug reports upstream [22:41] because it's quicker than trying to explain how to use bugzilla [22:43] brainwash: why did you subscribe me to that flash bug today? [22:44] because you knew i had a workaround for it? [22:44] or because of some weirdness on lp? [22:44] so you could add a nice comment which explains why the bug is happening :) [22:45] there's no nice explanation for it unfortunately... it happens because flash detects when focus changes and unmaximizes itself. so it is "by design" [22:45] the workaround is to patch xlib so it drops those events instead of sending them to the window [22:46] (which i do at runtime) [22:46] I know about the workaround [22:46] so there is no chance to get it fixed officially (in ubuntu)? [22:46] none at all [22:47] unless abode fixes it, which they definitely won't [22:47] they didn't even fix it when all videos were playing with reversed chroma (aka the smurf bug) [22:49] I see [22:50] what was the deal with the new present extension? [22:50] didn't you want to utilize it? [22:51] vsync stuff [22:51] yeah... no support from the video drivers yet [22:51] it's really easy to just patch it in [22:51] but nobody can use it [22:51] it directly replaces XRender [22:52] right, 14.10 won't support it yet I guess [22:52] maybe if you use intel or nouveau [22:52] or maybe [22:52] yeah [22:52] just look for DRI3 and Present extensions [22:52] you'll probably have them [22:53] but they won't actually fix tearing unless the video driver implements them properly, which they don't [22:53] currently they just fake it by passing it throgh to XRender [22:53] intel supports them now [22:53] intel already has tear-free with DRM [22:53] yes, and it has been improved a lot [22:54] tearfree is even better than xr_glx_hybird (compton) [22:54] i don't want to add yet another rendering backend and config option [22:54] yes, it should be [22:54] and present should be even better [22:54] an it is finally :) [22:55] even better o.o [22:55] present can go one stage further and do proper double buffering [22:55] where the app actually knows which buffer is being displayed [22:55] that's a bit more complex to implement though [22:55] sounds promising [22:56] but the thing is, i want to wait until present is widely supported, and then just drop all the other hacks [22:56] and by widely supported i mean nvidia binary driver supports it [22:58] this will take some time, but a tear free experience ootb is really needed [22:59] especially since it's already 2014 [23:05] go to https://devtalk.nvidia.com and ask them to support present [23:16] funny that there doesnt seem to be a related discussion yet in that forum [23:20] that's because it is mostly users who know nothing. tinkerers, if you will [23:20] every other thread is complaining about tearing though [23:26] mmm [23:26] tearing is really one of the basic aspects where linux limps behind other OSs [23:28] only if you use the proprietary drivers [23:28] the actual place where linux lags behind is in decent 3d acceleration [23:29] only intel has quality drivers, and their hardware is rubbish [23:30] i dunno, nouveau didn't seem to improve tearing issues at all here [23:30] all it did was push my fan to 100% [23:30] (constantly) [23:31] nouveau has present now [23:32] oh, it does? [23:32] not bad, if that worked, i guess i'd switch [23:36] all software is bad, all computers suck.... [23:37] anything more complex than 8 bit microcontrollers is basically guaranteed to not work properly [23:41] makes you wonder why we ever managed to put a man on the moon or a rover on mars though [23:41] can't be *that* bad [23:43] that was done with 8 bit computers [23:43] the question is why can't we do it today?