[12:35] <andreslazo> hi
[14:05] <kgunn> for those waiting, apologies, just wrestling with google hangout
[14:07] <kgunn> ok, getting started
[14:14] <xnox> kgunn: did you start the hangout? what's the public viewers youtube url? can you add it to the event on summit http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22290/utopic-ue-unity8-mir-roadmap/
[14:15] <kgunn> xnox: is this the link https://plus.google.com/events/cvh4cv9p078dkuc6dcruc4frlso
[14:15] <Laney> it needs to work on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22290/utopic-ue-unity8-mir-roadmap/
[14:16] <kgunn> xnox:  or this http://youtu.be/xhwV-mAtru4
[14:16] <xnox> kgunn: this later one youtu.be should be added to the summit page
[14:16] <xnox> yeah!
[14:16] <xnox> all is good now
[14:16] <xnox> =)
[14:17] <xnox> haha! we now have a video guide on how to do the hangout =)
[14:17] <Laney> you might want to edit this video when it goes live ;-)
[14:18] <xnox> kgunn: click present button to get the slides bigger?
[14:18] <ppisati> full screen please
[14:19] <xnox> kgunn: \o/ yeah =)
[14:38] <kgunn> any questions?
[14:40] <kgunn> link of ozone-mir demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuNhpass4Y
[14:40] <kgunn> link of Qtcomp prep work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4wtaDdzkGw
[15:03] <dpm> slangasek, can you or any other track lead start the hangout for the upcoming session?
[15:03] <dpm> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22283/utopic-ue-unity-api-roadmap/
[15:03] <alecu> hi, may I ask for the Hangout URL?
[15:04] <slangasek> dpm: er, my understanding was that session leads were supposed to run these this time, not track leads (per mhall119)
[15:05] <sil2100> Hey
[15:05] <dobey> who is the session lead?
[15:05] <pstolowski> thostr, ^
[15:05] <sil2100> thostr: how's the hangout setup going?
[15:05] <dpm> slangasek, sil2100 it seems thostr is having issues starting the hangout
[15:05] <dpm> so I was wondering if a track lead could help
[15:05] <sil2100> Ok, let me try then
[15:05] <sil2100> thostr: let me try doing that and see how it goes, ok?
[15:06] <dpm> thanks sil2100
[15:07] <thostr> otherwise I just open another public hangout
[15:07] <sil2100> Doing
[15:07] <thostr> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/thomas
[15:08] <sil2100> thostr: wait
[15:08] <sil2100> Or did you already set it up?
[15:09] <thostr> I could, but that won't have the recording
[15:09] <sil2100> thostr: ok, so I continue then
[15:09] <thostr> or, will it do automatically?
[15:09] <thostr> alecu: pstolowski: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/thomas
[15:10] <pete-woods> thostr: do you want me in this hangout? or not
[15:10] <sil2100> Crap, compiz crashed...
[15:10] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYerGDIE3y1vTKVPeC8OBMAMBVt1guG7O79w1XgO6XZtT9ZuUw?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:10] <sil2100> Use this one
[15:11] <sil2100> Everything set up, please join in
[15:11] <thostr> pete-woods:yes, if you want
[15:11] <sil2100> pete-woods: pstolowski: ^
[15:47] <sil2100> o/
[16:00] <cjwatson> working on setting up the hangout now
[16:02] <cjwatson> hangout url should work now
[16:03] <cjwatson> anyone other than me want to join the hangout before I put it on air?
[16:04] <wgrant> Possibly me?
[16:04] <lool> coming
[16:04] <lool> hmm if I can find the hangout link
[16:04] <rickspencer3> o/ cjwatson
[16:04] <slangasek> the hangout link doesn't seem to let me join a hangout
[16:04] <cjwatson> lool: should be in summit?
[16:05]  * ogra_ stays o IRC ... connection issues today 
[16:05] <cjwatson> try https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYf5VdaMh7Vxpn2RqBxQ16x9bqX7jXIh1p5TuvlQ2Vy8AyLY7Q?authuser=1
[16:06] <bhuey> waiting
[16:06] <cjwatson> summit should work now
[16:06] <lool> thanks, I alway landed on the streaming page for some reason
[16:07] <bhuey> heard voices
[16:07] <lool> cjwatson: stream works
[16:07] <wgrant> There we go, live now.
[16:07] <ogra_> all fine
[16:07] <schwuk-uos> works
[16:07] <bhuey> got it
[16:07] <apw> yep here
[16:07] <rickspencer3> working cjwatson
[16:10]  * schwuk-uos waves on behalf of PES
[16:11] <ogra_> hmm, why cant we just use the archive sources.list ? only "developers" will use debs anyway
[16:12] <ogra_> i would expect these to actually wanting to use debs from the devel release
[16:12] <wgrant> ogra_: This is for image builds.
[16:12] <wgrant> We need to have a stable base from which we can build images.
[16:13] <ogra_> wgrant, well, we create a sources.list at the end of the build
[16:13] <ogra_> which imho should just point to the archive
[16:13] <ogra_> indeed we need a PPA based one during build
[16:21] <ogra_> ci train -> i thought we wanted to land in the normal distro first and then migrate packages from there
[16:21] <ogra_> sounnds like your proposal is the other way round
[16:22] <lool> cjwatson: so archive admin will be same team as for Ubuntu
[16:22] <lool> ?
[16:23] <ogra_> ah
[16:23] <ogra_> cjwatson, thanks !
[16:24] <lool> cjwatson: just a single new archive?
[16:24] <asac> Q: will launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm be throwaway after our RTM milestone this summer or is that something we will continue to use to prep and produce our future stable releases from too?
[16:24] <ogra_> the former
[16:24] <lool> cjwatson: it's just the touch packagesets in the new archive though?
[16:25] <ogra_> lool, yeah
[16:25] <ogra_> only the seed
[16:25] <cjwatson> not quite
[16:25] <cjwatson> will answer at end
[16:25] <ogra_> k
[16:26] <asac> yeah lets talk later :)
[16:28] <ogra_> i imagine that we should future RTMs simply base on stable releases we have out by then ... only if a venndor wants to wait for the next stable explicitly they can do that (or pay for a forked RTM)
[16:29] <ogra_> (since i think that is the purpose of having a generic rootfs)
[16:30] <ogra_> heh, yeah
[16:30] <schwuk-uos> ogra_: ideally, yes, we will base off stable releases. We'll see what reality brings us :-)
[16:31] <ogra_> indeed
[16:31] <asac> maybe we produce stable releases out of ubuntu-rtm :)
[16:31] <asac> hehe
[16:31] <ogra_> but i think forked RTMs should be a paid service then ;)
[16:31] <ogra_> asac, baware !
[16:31] <asac> so ubuntu-rtm feeds into stable-proposed channel
[16:31] <lool> cjwatson: ack ok
[16:31] <lool> probably will pull most of main via build-dep chains I guess
[16:32] <ogra_> asac, no, ubuntu feeds into stable ... utopic will bee todays RTM with cream and cherry on top ... that should be our base for the next 6 months
[16:32] <ogra_> (for other RTMs that occur during this timeframe)
[16:32] <lool> cjwatson: would you have a link to the slides?
[16:33] <asac> dont think i agree :)... cjwatson is right, we have to check what happens
[16:34] <cjwatson> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1XARuA8-hsIQX1Xjj7jw2Nq4TrzoclhyTqJTla5otGws/edit#slide=id.p
[16:34] <asac> cjwatson: you can just link the slides in the youtube description after. that would be cool
[16:34] <lool> cjwatson: works from an incognito window
[16:34] <schwuk-uos> cjwatson:our goal is to ultimately use stock RootFS, but the reality is for the short term we will continue to roll custom ones. The tentative requirement of basing our custom one off a certain RTM image has already been raised. Any ideas on how to simplify this?
[16:34] <bhuey> cjwatson: works
[16:35] <ogra_> schwuk-uos, you should mostly be able to use the rootfs as is today already
[16:35] <ogra_> there are a handfull of files that we will need to move
[16:35] <ogra_> which is on my TODO before RTM
[16:36] <schwuk-uos> cjwatson: we want to avoid lots of snapshots (as we currently have)
[16:36] <asac> schwuk-uos: what is a snapshot?
[16:36] <ogra_> why do you do them today ?
[16:37] <ogra_> the phone rootfs should already be usable without doing any snaphots
[16:37] <asac> what is a snapshot? :P
[16:37] <asac> a copy of the archive or what?
[16:37] <cjwatson> slide 3
[16:37] <asac> oh
[16:38] <asac> yeah
[16:38] <asac> so i would have hoped that we can work togehter with PES on the ubuntu-rtm distro
[16:38] <schwuk-uos> asac: yes - we have internal archives of given points in time of an Ubuntu release
[16:38] <asac> to produce their images
[16:38] <ogra_> asac, please lets re-think that for the actual archive
[16:39] <asac> anyway, tbdlater
[16:39] <ogra_> not focus on the RTM forking ...
[16:39] <asac> wait :)
[16:39] <ogra_> that should stay a special thing
[16:39] <asac> ogra_: i strongly agree and noone says we are forking
[16:39] <ogra_> not something regular
[16:39] <schwuk-uos> cjwatson: it's a fuzzy requirement at the moment, just wanted to share my stress :-)
[16:39] <cjwatson> ack
[16:39] <ogra_> asac, ok :)
[16:39] <asac> the rtm thing is just there to get the fixes etc. that schwuk-uos needs in imo
[16:39] <asac> so i was hoping we can avoid need another snapshot layer etc.
[16:40] <ogra_> well, what we produce in the archive should become good enough for schwuk-uos to use ... very simple ... customization should be done via the customization tarballs
[16:40] <ogra_> not via PPAs
[16:40] <slangasek> related to treating them as ubuntu bugs... will we have ddebs?
[16:40] <slangasek> without that, having the crashes may not be useful
[16:41] <asac> wgrant: cjwatson: so how much work do you think is needed to finish dervied archive?
[16:41] <schwuk-uos> ogra_: ideally, yes, but current projects are using custom Android and RootFS - the customisation tarball doesn't work for some requirements right now.
[16:41] <asac> schwuk-uos: did you run those cases through someone?
[16:41] <ogra_> schwuk-uos, you will always have to use custom android
[16:41] <asac> schwuk-uos: would be cool to ru those through us every other week :)
[16:41] <ogra_> schwuk-uos, but with the same rootfs
[16:42] <asac> even if we cannot solve them its important to keep those problems thought off
[16:42] <schwuk-uos> asac: will follow up with you
[16:43] <xnox> wgrant: weren't ddebs suppose to move into launchpad?
[16:43] <cjwatson> blocked on prodstack4
[16:43] <cjwatson> in general, for disk space reasons
[16:44] <cjwatson> but as wgrant says we may be able to do it just for this
[16:44] <schwuk-uos> ogra_: we're using custom RootFS for things like updated/replacment packages e.g. ofono was one used recently
[16:44] <ogra_> schwuk-uos, right, thats wrong and we need to find a way to get your stuff into the main ofono then
[16:45] <schwuk-uos> ogra_: john-mcaleely and team are doing that, but some projects are moving too fast. As I said, we view the custom RootFS as a short-term thing.
[16:45] <ogra_> yeah, for development thats surely a good option
[16:45] <lool> it's kind of sad we're using lots of space to publish the archive and ddebs twice when 90% will be unmodified
[16:46] <ogra_> as loong as we can make sure your stuff is in the final stable rootfs
[16:46] <asac> lool: how do you measure that sadness?
[16:46] <lool> asac: it's about :-((
[16:46] <asac> lool: i would measure that with potential monetary waste :)
[16:46] <lool> on a scale of :-( to :-(((((
[16:46] <ogra_> money is cheap
[16:46] <asac> thats probably marginally close to 0
[16:47] <wgrant> Launchpad does have plans to make duplicated archives basically free disk-wise, but I don't quite have time to implement it just yet.
[16:47] <wgrant> Maybe in a year :/
[16:47] <lool> asac: anyway, didn't bring it up in the ho cause it's
[16:47] <asac> doesnt feel really important to me to optimize space if its not going to mirrors
[16:47] <asac> sure :)
[16:47] <lool> just a detail that doesn't matter technically
[16:47] <cjwatson> I don't think it's a big deal, no
[16:48] <xnox> cjwatson: is livefs building lp depends on prodstack4? or is scalingstack separate from that?
[16:48] <wgrant> xnox: It doesn't really depend on either.
[16:48] <xnox> wgrant: cool.
[16:49] <wgrant> The extra librarian space from PS4 would be nice, but not a requirement.
[16:50] <cjwatson> it isn't going to be using scalingstack even when scalingstack first lands
[16:50] <cjwatson> it will eventually when scalingstack takes over the world
[16:51] <xnox> ok. didn't know scalingstack is planned for gradual roll out. sounds all good then.
[16:51] <wgrant> xnox: scalingstack is just taking over PPA builds to start.
[16:51] <cjwatson> scalingstack will take over the PPA build farm first
[16:51] <rickspencer3> thanks cjwatson
[16:51] <cjwatson> but livefses will build on what's currently labelled the distro build farm
[16:51] <asac> thanks cjwatson
[16:51] <cjwatson> that is, devirtualised builders
[16:51] <ogra_> thanks !!
[16:51] <sil2100> Thanks o/
[16:52] <schwuk-uos> cjwatson: thanks
[16:52] <asac> cjwatson: if you didnt get my suggestion: the youtube video is in your youtube account so you can just link the slides there to make that a more useful contribution to history :)
[16:52] <asac> in the description
[16:52] <asac> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8EYQb6vJC0#t=610
[16:52] <asac> err
[16:53] <cjwatson> Yep, I'm just waiting for it to finish uploading and show up in my account
[16:53] <asac> ack
[16:53] <cjwatson> OK, linked now
[16:54] <asac> perfect
[16:54] <asac> thanks
[17:02] <rsalveti> all good
[20:54] <viol> giggity