| Kilos | cremora minora | 06:05 |
|---|---|---|
| kbmonkey | morning | 07:04 |
| Kilos | Maaz coffee on | 07:25 |
| * Maaz puts the kettle on | 07:25 | |
| kbmonkey | hello Kilos | 07:28 |
| Kilos | hi kbmonkey howsit lad? | 07:29 |
| * Kilos back on kde. unity is tiring to get working to my satisfaction | 07:29 | |
| Maaz | Coffee's ready for Kilos! | 07:29 |
| Kilos | Maaz ty | 07:29 |
| Maaz | You are welcome Kilos | 07:30 |
| kbmonkey | alright thanks Kilos. how are you and the sheep? | 07:33 |
| Kilos | good ty apart from the cold | 07:34 |
| Kilos | so cold and peeps are flying around in microlights | 07:34 |
| Kilos | brrrr | 07:34 |
| kbmonkey | the air must be like ice up that high | 07:35 |
| Kilos | yip. they must be fat peeps or thick skinned | 07:35 |
| kbmonkey | I am driving to maritzburg shortly | 07:36 |
| Kilos | go safe lad | 07:38 |
| Kilos | i did that trip every weekend for years | 07:38 |
| Kilos | but the south coast way | 07:38 |
| kbmonkey | thank you Kilos. taking the sister and her husband with for father's day | 07:41 |
| kbmonkey | I am going down so long, want to "assess" my car seat covers, need new ones | 07:42 |
| Kilos | nice | 07:42 |
| Kilos | haha | 07:42 |
| Kilos | hi Private_User | 08:09 |
| Private_User | hi Kilos | 08:09 |
| Private_User | hey anybody here know of any good sites I can download some contract/partnership or client contract templates for ICT stuff like web development/support etc? | 08:34 |
| Private_User | hmm... | 08:50 |
| Kilos | all shopping | 08:50 |
| Private_User | I guess since its Saturday everybody is out and about | 08:50 |
| Kilos | hehe | 08:50 |
| Private_User | lol | 08:50 |
| Private_User | yeah | 08:50 |
| Kilos | did you try that script for win connections | 08:50 |
| Private_User | yep I did, works lekker but internet was so slow yesterday did not make a difference | 08:51 |
| Private_User | today it seems to be fine | 08:52 |
| charl_ | good morning | 08:52 |
| charl_ | hi Kilos, Private_User, kbmonkey | 08:52 |
| charl_ | Maaz: coffee on | 08:52 |
| * Maaz puts the kettle on | 08:52 | |
| Private_User | morning charl_ | 08:53 |
| Kilos | hi charl_ | 08:53 |
| Private_User | Maaz: coffee please | 08:53 |
| Maaz | Private_User: Alrighty | 08:53 |
| Private_User | charl_: you know of any good sites I can download some contract templates? | 08:54 |
| Private_User | more especially for like ICT stuff like providing development/support services to clients which they will sign and also to partner with other companies and provide those services | 08:55 |
| Private_User | I know of a guy who lost everything because clients did not pay him and the amounts were in the millions | 08:56 |
| Private_User | he was doing software development | 08:56 |
| charl_ | Private_User: sorry it's been years since i did any freelance projects | 08:56 |
| charl_ | get a good lawyer | 08:56 |
| Private_User | ok no worries charl_ | 08:56 |
| Maaz | Coffee's ready for charl_ and Private_User! | 08:56 |
| charl_ | i also had some bad expreriences with clients who did not pay | 08:57 |
| Private_User | Maaz: thanks | 08:57 |
| Maaz | Private_User: Okay :-) | 08:57 |
| Private_User | yeah I am trying to avoid that | 08:57 |
| Private_User | this guy I know he had a company so not sure how he was doing business | 08:59 |
| Private_User | sometimes word of mouth and trust is never enough | 08:59 |
| Private_User | but I think he lost everything due to poor financial management as well | 09:00 |
| charl_ | Private_User: it's very hard in IT because it's a watery affair | 09:21 |
| charl_ | most people outside of IT don't really know IT very well | 09:21 |
| charl_ | so you end up having to hire a specialist lawyer | 09:21 |
| charl_ | one who costs a packet of money | 09:21 |
| charl_ | and the other party can always claim that you didn't do your job properly etc | 09:22 |
| charl_ | so you have to prove that everything that was agreed upon has been delivered | 09:22 |
| charl_ | when you do commercial software development, especially if you use the agile mythology, this can be difficult | 09:22 |
| charl_ | because what is to be delivered is not structured in contractual form | 09:22 |
| charl_ | it's captured on issue tracking systems like trac | 09:23 |
| charl_ | that is, if you do it well, otherwise you just have a bunch of lose papers laying around with notes :) | 09:23 |
| charl_ | so it makes it very hard to prove in court that you did your job and you need to get paid (in a legal way) | 09:23 |
| charl_ | i used to mitigate the risk by mitigate the risk by insisting on clients paying deposits | 09:24 |
| Private_User | yeah its a bit of a conundrum hey | 09:24 |
| charl_ | it's the same as with quoting clients | 09:24 |
| Private_User | but you right how do you put on paper what is needed by the client and what that actually means in IT terms | 09:25 |
| charl_ | how can you issue a quote based off a limited understanding of the requirements and variables involved | 09:25 |
| charl_ | so you first have to do in-depth requirements analysis | 09:25 |
| charl_ | by then you've already done half the work before you can actually quote the client | 09:25 |
| charl_ | and then what if the client decides to go elsewhere | 09:25 |
| charl_ | but that's typical waterfall mythology, i refuse to do that | 09:26 |
| Private_User | yep thats the other issue some clients want to know the price before they give you any info | 09:26 |
| Private_User | so if you had to guess prices what you say a web design project price should start from? | 09:30 |
| Private_User | but now a user do they understand the difference between web design and web development | 09:31 |
| Private_User | lots of things to think about I guess thats why some people just go on trust and do the job but I guess yes a deposit does help and then rest payable on delivery | 09:32 |
| charl_ | well the thing is you have to manage the risk, just like with everything else in business | 10:41 |
| charl_ | when you're in business you take risks, that's the only way to get anywhere | 10:41 |
| charl_ | but which risks you end up taking is something you have to be very careful with | 10:41 |
| charl_ | and you have to try and mitigate those risks as far as possible | 10:41 |
| charl_ | when you get involved with a client, you have to be selective about which clients you are willing to take on | 10:42 |
| charl_ | usually that does not as much depend on the project, but on the client him/her/themselves | 10:42 |
| charl_ | if you do work for a client regularly, you build a trust relationship with them | 10:42 |
| charl_ | if they always keep paying consistently there is no reason to ask for a deposit every time | 10:42 |
| charl_ | but if you think to yourself "this guy is a real w*nker" then you have to be extra careful | 10:43 |
| charl_ | and that's when you might consider inflating the quote and asking for a fat deposit up front to at least see if they actually have (any) money | 10:43 |
| charl_ | you can always make it up to them later by saying "it was less work than we thought" and simply make the final invoice less than expected | 10:44 |
| charl_ | then you did good business and the client walks away happy | 10:44 |
| Kilos | build in a killer bug that you remove after you paid | 11:36 |
| Kilos | just tell the client it has a bug built it that deactivates on payment | 11:42 |
| Kilos | s/it/in | 11:43 |
| Kilos | ohi superfly | 15:42 |
| Kilos | and others | 15:42 |
| superfly | hi Kilos | 15:42 |
| * Kilos watching rugger with tara | 15:42 | |
| captine | evening all | 17:18 |
| Somethingwentwro | Kilos: do you see the moon? | 17:20 |
| Kilos | nope | 17:20 |
| Kilos | who you Somethingwentwro ?? | 17:21 |
| Kilos | hehe | 17:21 |
| Kilos | hi captine | 17:21 |
| === Somethingwentwro is now known as mobilemonkey | ||
| Kilos | aha | 17:21 |
| Kilos | my monkey | 17:21 |
| mobilemonkey | Oops :) | 17:21 |
| captine | hi kilod | 17:21 |
| captine | Kilos, | 17:21 |
| captine | my bad | 17:21 |
| mobilemonkey | It is big and red | 17:22 |
| Kilos | you still in pmb mobilemonkey ?? | 17:22 |
| Kilos | i walked to otherside the world i think. many hours | 17:24 |
| Kilos | -625 and -896 | 17:26 |
| Kilos | eish superfly gale force winds and rain tomorrow by you | 17:27 |
| Kilos | stay in bed | 17:27 |
| theblazehen | eish. Where is the fly? | 17:27 |
| Kilos | capetown | 17:27 |
| mobilemonkey | No I drove back oom | 17:28 |
| Kilos | why you not in the game mobilemonkey ? | 17:28 |
| Kilos | im so far away im not walking back again | 17:28 |
| Kilos | im gonna commt sewerage pipe | 17:28 |
| * theblazehen beeping loves rsync :D | 17:29 | |
| === psychici1t is now known as psychicist__ | ||
| Kilos | hi psychicist__ | 18:05 |
| superfly | Kilos: gale force winds always here... and rain, well... it's winter | 18:15 |
| Kilos | ai! | 18:15 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | 'lo | 18:16 |
| superfly | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/06/unity-8-daily-build-images-go-live | 18:43 |
| Private_User | evening all | 18:47 |
| hibana | good evening | 19:04 |
| Private_User | evening hibana | 19:09 |
| inetpro | ai! | 19:10 |
| inetpro | hibana: gaan weg! | 19:11 |
| hibana | sorry oom | 19:11 |
| hibana | bye | 19:11 |
| inetpro | good evening | 19:11 |
| inetpro | Eskom giving us grey hairs today | 19:16 |
| * inetpro been working most of the day having to shut down servers et all due to loss of power in Pretoria | 19:17 | |
| inetpro | UPS system ended up running out of power due to another circuit breaker failing to switch over load between city power and generator | 19:18 |
| Kilos | inetpro why you chase my friend hibana | 19:35 |
| inetpro | skuus oom, baie onvriendelik van my | 19:35 |
| Kilos | ja | 19:35 |
| Kilos | one of my first irc buddies | 19:36 |
| Kilos | he was very helpfull not busy all the time | 19:36 |
| inetpro | ai! | 19:37 |
| Kilos | ThatGraemeGuy link to the map please | 19:37 |
| Kilos | hehe skuus man | 19:37 |
| Kilos | we mgonna have to find another unity user to help noobs | 19:38 |
| inetpro | Kilos: why? | 19:46 |
| Kilos | im seriously thinking of only using kde | 19:47 |
| inetpro | oh cool | 19:47 |
| Kilos | i cant get that compose thing working | 19:47 |
| Kilos | grrrr | 19:47 |
| superfly | compose? | 19:49 |
| superfly | top left hand corner | 19:49 |
| Kilos | on unity superfly , the thing i used to make the degrees sign | 20:09 |
| Kilos | on kde it works | 20:09 |
| superfly | oh | 20:09 |
| Kilos | i hope | 20:09 |
| superfly | yes | 20:09 |
| Kilos | ° | 20:10 |
| Kilos | ja left super and oo | 20:10 |
| Kilos | they have disabled the compose key function | 20:10 |
| Kilos | on unity that is | 20:10 |
| superfly | Yøü méån thàt ônẽ? | 20:12 |
| superfly | wow... | 20:12 |
| Kilos | lol ya that one | 20:12 |
| Kilos | on drussels pc it works even disabled but not here | 20:13 |
| Kilos | and all the links on what to do make matters worse | 20:13 |
| Kilos | so im gonna cruise on kde and keep the unity drive going just for noobs help methinks | 20:14 |
| Kilos | now its bed time for ballies. night all | 20:15 |
| Kilos | sleep warm | 20:15 |
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