[06:05] cremora minora [07:04] morning [07:25] Maaz coffee on [07:25] * Maaz puts the kettle on [07:28] hello Kilos [07:29] hi kbmonkey howsit lad? [07:29] * Kilos back on kde. unity is tiring to get working to my satisfaction [07:29] Coffee's ready for Kilos! [07:29] Maaz ty [07:30] You are welcome Kilos [07:33] alright thanks Kilos. how are you and the sheep? [07:34] good ty apart from the cold [07:34] so cold and peeps are flying around in microlights [07:34] brrrr [07:35] the air must be like ice up that high [07:35] yip. they must be fat peeps or thick skinned [07:36] I am driving to maritzburg shortly [07:38] go safe lad [07:38] i did that trip every weekend for years [07:38] but the south coast way [07:41] thank you Kilos. taking the sister and her husband with for father's day [07:42] I am going down so long, want to "assess" my car seat covers, need new ones [07:42] nice [07:42] haha [08:09] hi Private_User [08:09] hi Kilos [08:34] hey anybody here know of any good sites I can download some contract/partnership or client contract templates for ICT stuff like web development/support etc? [08:50] hmm... [08:50] all shopping [08:50] I guess since its Saturday everybody is out and about [08:50] hehe [08:50] lol [08:50] yeah [08:50] did you try that script for win connections [08:51] yep I did, works lekker but internet was so slow yesterday did not make a difference [08:52] today it seems to be fine [08:52] good morning [08:52] hi Kilos, Private_User, kbmonkey [08:52] Maaz: coffee on [08:52] * Maaz puts the kettle on [08:53] morning charl_ [08:53] hi charl_ [08:53] Maaz: coffee please [08:53] Private_User: Alrighty [08:54] charl_: you know of any good sites I can download some contract templates? [08:55] more especially for like ICT stuff like providing development/support services to clients which they will sign and also to partner with other companies and provide those services [08:56] I know of a guy who lost everything because clients did not pay him and the amounts were in the millions [08:56] he was doing software development [08:56] Private_User: sorry it's been years since i did any freelance projects [08:56] get a good lawyer [08:56] ok no worries charl_ [08:56] Coffee's ready for charl_ and Private_User! [08:57] i also had some bad expreriences with clients who did not pay [08:57] Maaz: thanks [08:57] Private_User: Okay :-) [08:57] yeah I am trying to avoid that [08:59] this guy I know he had a company so not sure how he was doing business [08:59] sometimes word of mouth and trust is never enough [09:00] but I think he lost everything due to poor financial management as well [09:21] Private_User: it's very hard in IT because it's a watery affair [09:21] most people outside of IT don't really know IT very well [09:21] so you end up having to hire a specialist lawyer [09:21] one who costs a packet of money [09:22] and the other party can always claim that you didn't do your job properly etc [09:22] so you have to prove that everything that was agreed upon has been delivered [09:22] when you do commercial software development, especially if you use the agile mythology, this can be difficult [09:22] because what is to be delivered is not structured in contractual form [09:23] it's captured on issue tracking systems like trac [09:23] that is, if you do it well, otherwise you just have a bunch of lose papers laying around with notes :) [09:23] so it makes it very hard to prove in court that you did your job and you need to get paid (in a legal way) [09:24] i used to mitigate the risk by mitigate the risk by insisting on clients paying deposits [09:24] yeah its a bit of a conundrum hey [09:24] it's the same as with quoting clients [09:25] but you right how do you put on paper what is needed by the client and what that actually means in IT terms [09:25] how can you issue a quote based off a limited understanding of the requirements and variables involved [09:25] so you first have to do in-depth requirements analysis [09:25] by then you've already done half the work before you can actually quote the client [09:25] and then what if the client decides to go elsewhere [09:26] but that's typical waterfall mythology, i refuse to do that [09:26] yep thats the other issue some clients want to know the price before they give you any info [09:30] so if you had to guess prices what you say a web design project price should start from? [09:31] but now a user do they understand the difference between web design and web development [09:32] lots of things to think about I guess thats why some people just go on trust and do the job but I guess yes a deposit does help and then rest payable on delivery [10:41] well the thing is you have to manage the risk, just like with everything else in business [10:41] when you're in business you take risks, that's the only way to get anywhere [10:41] but which risks you end up taking is something you have to be very careful with [10:41] and you have to try and mitigate those risks as far as possible [10:42] when you get involved with a client, you have to be selective about which clients you are willing to take on [10:42] usually that does not as much depend on the project, but on the client him/her/themselves [10:42] if you do work for a client regularly, you build a trust relationship with them [10:42] if they always keep paying consistently there is no reason to ask for a deposit every time [10:43] but if you think to yourself "this guy is a real w*nker" then you have to be extra careful [10:43] and that's when you might consider inflating the quote and asking for a fat deposit up front to at least see if they actually have (any) money [10:44] you can always make it up to them later by saying "it was less work than we thought" and simply make the final invoice less than expected [10:44] then you did good business and the client walks away happy [11:36] build in a killer bug that you remove after you paid [11:42] just tell the client it has a bug built it that deactivates on payment [11:43] s/it/in [15:42] ohi superfly [15:42] and others [15:42] hi Kilos [15:42] * Kilos watching rugger with tara [17:18] evening all [17:20] Kilos: do you see the moon? [17:20] nope [17:21] who you Somethingwentwro ?? [17:21] hehe [17:21] hi captine === Somethingwentwro is now known as mobilemonkey [17:21] aha [17:21] my monkey [17:21] Oops :) [17:21] hi kilod [17:21] Kilos, [17:21] my bad [17:22] It is big and red [17:22] you still in pmb mobilemonkey ?? [17:24] i walked to otherside the world i think. many hours [17:26] -625 and -896 [17:27] eish superfly gale force winds and rain tomorrow by you [17:27] stay in bed [17:27] eish. Where is the fly? [17:27] capetown [17:28] No I drove back oom [17:28] why you not in the game mobilemonkey ? [17:28] im so far away im not walking back again [17:28] im gonna commt sewerage pipe [17:29] * theblazehen beeping loves rsync :D === psychici1t is now known as psychicist__ [18:05] hi psychicist__ [18:15] Kilos: gale force winds always here... and rain, well... it's winter [18:15] ai! [18:16] 'lo [18:43] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/06/unity-8-daily-build-images-go-live [18:47] evening all [19:04] good evening [19:09] evening hibana [19:10] ai! [19:11] hibana: gaan weg! [19:11] sorry oom [19:11] bye [19:11] good evening [19:16] Eskom giving us grey hairs today [19:17] * inetpro been working most of the day having to shut down servers et all due to loss of power in Pretoria [19:18] UPS system ended up running out of power due to another circuit breaker failing to switch over load between city power and generator [19:35] inetpro why you chase my friend hibana [19:35] skuus oom, baie onvriendelik van my [19:35] ja [19:36] one of my first irc buddies [19:36] he was very helpfull not busy all the time [19:37] ai! [19:37] ThatGraemeGuy link to the map please [19:37] hehe skuus man [19:38] we mgonna have to find another unity user to help noobs [19:46] Kilos: why? [19:47] im seriously thinking of only using kde [19:47] oh cool [19:47] i cant get that compose thing working [19:47] grrrr [19:49] compose? [19:49] top left hand corner [20:09] on unity superfly , the thing i used to make the degrees sign [20:09] on kde it works [20:09] oh [20:09] i hope [20:09] yes [20:10] ° [20:10] ja left super and oo [20:10] they have disabled the compose key function [20:10] on unity that is [20:12] Yøü méån thàt ônẽ? [20:12] wow... [20:12] lol ya that one [20:13] on drussels pc it works even disabled but not here [20:13] and all the links on what to do make matters worse [20:14] so im gonna cruise on kde and keep the unity drive going just for noobs help methinks [20:15] now its bed time for ballies. night all [20:15] sleep warm