[08:18] <ochosi> hey everyone
[08:18] <Noskcaj> hey ochosi 
[08:18] <elfy> mornign
[08:18] <ochosi> ali1234: to correct you: i'm not the author of that patch, i solely ported it to work with xfdesktop4.11. but yeah, i guess that kinda makes me responsible for this regression...
[08:19] <ochosi> i wonder how to work around that though. maybe only update the wallpaper when xfdesktop exits?
[08:20] <Noskcaj> ochosi, Did you talk to eric about the upower patch for session?
[08:20] <ochosi> Noskcaj: sorry, haven't caught him ol in the last two days
[08:20] <Noskcaj> ok
[08:20] <Noskcaj> eric_the_idiot, PING
[08:20] <Noskcaj> just in case
[08:21] <ochosi> it's fine, i'll talk to him
[08:21] <ochosi> either way, it's not like we're in a big rush already
[08:21] <ochosi> you could also simply take his patch and add it to a test-build in a PPA
[08:21] <ochosi> then talk to our QA lead about getting it tested
[08:22] <Noskcaj> well darkxst (ubuntu gnome dev) is wanting the transition done ASAP so gnome can be tested
[08:23] <Noskcaj> and debian will be uploading soon too
[08:24] <ochosi> yeah, then follow my other suggestion ;)
[08:26] <Noskcaj> ok, will do
[08:26] <ochosi> that's what it's going to boil down to anyways, you know
[08:26] <ochosi> since eric wrote that one patch, i presume he'll think it's ok
[08:27] <ochosi> so we should give it some testing to see whether everything works as expected
[08:27] <ochosi> if the xfce4-session maintainer thinks it should be implemented another way, we can always take the upstream solution later
[08:53] <brainwash> ochosi: any idea? bug 1321443
[08:53] <ubottu> bug 1321443 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce4-settings-manager toolbar style doesn't change" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321443
[08:54] <brainwash> could it be that (some) gtk3 applications have hardcoded theme/style settings?
[08:55] <ochosi> that's more than probable
[08:55] <ochosi> also, i've never used that setting so i can't say if it even works for gtk3
[08:57] <brainwash> same here, so no clue
[08:57] <ochosi> a quick test indicates it doesnt work for gtk3
[08:59] <ochosi> ok
[08:59] <ochosi> so it changes the setting "ToolbarStyle" in Gtk's settings
[08:59] <ochosi> that seems like a version independent thing
[08:59] <ochosi> but the question is whether they possibly dropped that setting in gtk3
[09:00] <ochosi> or whether it's simply being ignored by apps
[09:00] <brainwash> in gtk's settings?
[09:00] <ochosi> another thing is that i think themes can modify it
[09:00] <ochosi> yeah, check xfce4-settings-editor > xsettings > gtk
[09:00] <ochosi> e.g. the ButtonImages setting really works for Gtk2/3
[09:00] <brainwash> right, but that's on the xfce side
[09:00] <ochosi> or the button-sizes
[09:01] <brainwash> we don't know if these settings are actually applied to gtk3
[09:01] <ochosi> well as i said, as ButtonImages works for both gtk2/3, yes
[09:02] <brainwash> ok, so any idea what we should do with the lp report?
[09:02] <ochosi> look: https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-toolbar-style
[09:02] <ochosi> GtkSettings:gtk-toolbar-style has been deprecated since version 3.10 and should not be used in newly-written code.
[09:02] <ochosi> This setting is ignored.
[09:03] <ochosi> if something doesn't work in gtk3, just assume it's deprecated ;)
[09:03] <brainwash> ah :D
[09:03] <brainwash> wanna update and close the report then?
[09:04] <ochosi> done
[09:05] <brainwash> thanks :)
[09:06] <ochosi> guess we should remember this when xfce finally moves to gtk3, that this setting has to be dropped
[09:07] <brainwash> yes, we should
[09:08] <brainwash> by creating a report? or some roadmap wiki?
[09:08] <ochosi> hm, otoh there are so many deprecated things... i guess we'll notice
[09:09] <ochosi> i hope we can begin the transition in the winter or something
[09:16] <ochosi> chromium in 14.04 really has some issues...
[09:17] <elfy> not the least of which is that it's chromium 
[09:20] <ochosi> i've never tried chrome tbh
[09:20]  * elfy neither and I only try chromium for long enough for it to annoy me :)
[09:21] <Noskcaj> ochosi, out surrent logind patches break eric's one
[09:21] <Noskcaj> *current
[09:22] <ochosi> ok, i guess then we'll have to investigate that a bit more
[09:26] <brainwash> chromium is always behind with updates on ubuntu
[09:27] <ochosi> it's also behind on tracking its users, from what i read
[09:27] <ochosi> elfy: thing is that firefox+flash has become an extremely unstable combo in 14.04 for me, so i need an alternative sometimes
[09:28] <elfy> yep - I understand that for people 
[09:31] <bluesabre> yeah, chromium/chrome have issues now
[09:31] <bluesabre> they no longer use gtk
[09:31] <ochosi> right, aurora and all
[09:32] <bluesabre> but that's getting better on its own
[09:32] <bluesabre> and firefox is working towards better gnome/gtk integration
[09:32] <ochosi> yeah, what annoys me a bit is the visual inconsistency
[09:32] <ochosi> suddenly chrome/ium's popups disappear with a fade-out
[09:33] <ochosi> that makes users wonder why it doesn't happen everywhere
[09:37] <elfy> I just have issues with bookmarks, it's enough to stop me using it :)
[13:04] <ochosi> brainwash: btw, have time to look into the xdg-screensaver issue?
[13:11] <brainwash> ochosi: no, I don't have access to my old pc with the xubuntu installation, so I don't really test or fix xfce related things right now
[13:11] <brainwash> maybe I should not have left that old thing behind :D
[13:13] <brainwash> are there any other ways to prevent the screensaver to be triggered?
[13:14] <ochosi> nope
[13:14] <brainwash> like simulating input events
[13:14] <ochosi> not any reliable ones
[13:14] <ochosi> we want a general solution, not one we have to implement in every app
[13:17] <brainwash> xdg-screensaver is the problem in this case
[13:17] <brainwash> there has to be a maintainer for it
[13:19] <ochosi> wait, so you're not using xubuntu anymore?
[13:21] <brainwash> no, but I did have my (x)ubuntu test machine to mess around with things
[13:23] <sveta> what are you using instead of xfce now? I would think you can install couple desktops, one for normal user and one for a test user
[13:24] <brainwash> space is limited, 40gb ssd here
[13:24] <brainwash> I use plain X with a basic window manager
[13:25] <brainwash> working and developing for xfce means also that I need to install all the ubuntu dev packages and so on
[13:26] <ochosi> actually you don't need any of that for debugging xdg-screensaver :)
[13:27] <ochosi> i suspect it's just as broken if you don't use light-locker but the built-in screensaver extension
[13:27] <brainwash> yeah, neither do you :P
[13:27] <brainwash> I think so so
[13:27] <ochosi> well, frankly i'm asking you because i'm busy with many other things
[13:27] <brainwash> light-locker does not do any magic
[13:28] <ochosi> so yeah, it'll take quite some time until i get to that
[13:29] <brainwash> we still got some time until 14.10 :)
[13:30] <ochosi> saying "i don't want to" would be enough, no need to dance around
[13:31] <brainwash> ok, then I don't want to
[13:32] <ochosi> yeah, i got that. that was more a note for the future
[13:33] <elfy> :)
[13:55] <brainwash> ochosi: bad news, xdg-screensaver works fine here
[13:56] <brainwash> it inhibits screensaver + dpms
[13:57] <ochosi> i presume you use the same version as is found in ubuntu?
[13:57] <ochosi> (with the strange patch)
[13:59] <brainwash> yes, downloaded and tested it
[14:01] <brainwash> does power-manager monitor these settings?
[14:01] <brainwash> the timeouts
[14:03] <brainwash> I guess that we should ask the affected users to attach the output of "xset -q"
[14:03] <brainwash> while a movie is playing
[14:05] <brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1309744/comments/11
[14:05] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1309744 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "Light Locker blanks the screen when playing video" [Undecided,New]
[14:06] <brainwash> which patch?
[14:14] <ochosi> there is a patch that kinda duplicates the callbacks for when the screensaver extension is used in ubuntu
[14:15] <ochosi> i could never make sense of it
[14:23] <ochosi> brainwash: actually "xdg-screensaver status" only works for me the first time i run the command
[14:23] <ochosi> after that i don't get "enabled" or "disabled" but simply nothing
[14:24] <brainwash> mmh, parole does not actually call .. status
[14:25] <brainwash> still weird, it works fine here
[14:26] <brainwash> but this might be a hint :)
[14:28] <Unit193> Works fine here too.
[14:30] <ochosi> Unit193: you're using stock xubuntu 14.04 with light-locker?
[14:33] <Unit193> No
[14:34] <ochosi> well then, errr... :)
[14:36] <brainwash> ochosi: did you already check "xset -q" while playing a movie with parole?
[14:37] <brainwash> maybe some timout is not set properly
[15:31] <ochosi> brainwash: i did, and it doesn't get changed
[15:35] <brainwash> ochosi: and after running "xdg-screensaver suspend <window id>"?
[15:35] <brainwash> some random (valid) window id will do I guess
[15:35] <brainwash> use "xprop"
[15:39] <ochosi> yeah, still not suspended
[15:39] <ochosi> i mean the screensaver time is still 1980 (the value to which i set it)
[15:41] <brainwash> ok
[15:42] <brainwash> you didn't close the window before checking xset -q, right?
[15:43] <ochosi> ofc not
[15:43] <ochosi> i guess one would have to add lots and lots of debug statements to the script
[15:43] <brainwash> you can add "set -x"
[15:44] <brainwash> and then redirect the output
[15:44] <brainwash> could power-manager interfere somehow?
[15:44] <eric_the_idiot> Noskcaj, pong
[15:44] <brainwash> and reset the timeout?
[15:47] <brainwash> because xdg-screensaver works in non Xubuntu/Xfce
[15:49] <ochosi> power-manager only interferes with the presentation mode
[15:49] <ochosi> (which i have deactivated)
[15:50] <ochosi> otherwise it doesn't touch the blank times
[15:58] <ochosi> brainwash: i think i got it
[15:58] <ochosi> note: i think :)
[15:58] <ochosi> at least it works now
[15:59] <ochosi> hah, awesome, it sets the screensaver timeout back to the default value of "600" upon resume, so it obviously doesn't remember the time that was set before
[16:00] <brainwash> upon resume
[16:00] <ochosi> yeah, after running xdg-screensaver resume windowid
[16:01] <brainwash> yea, but suspend is our problem, isn't it?
[16:01] <ochosi> both works now
[16:01] <brainwash> sounds good
[16:02] <ochosi> well, the script not remembering the previously set value actually blows big time if you ask me
[16:02] <ochosi> but that's simply a missing feature
[16:03] <ochosi> if i wouldn't dislike bash scripts so much, i guess i'd add it
[16:04] <sveta> I hate css a lot more than bash scripts
[16:04] <sveta> dislike is probably a better word
[16:05] <ochosi> if you want we can switch
[16:05] <ochosi> i'd do a lot of css for not having to do bash :)
[16:10] <ochosi> brainwash: when you looked before, did you find an "upstream" for xdg-utils?
[16:10] <ochosi> or is it simply maintained on a distro basis?
[16:12] <sveta> I asked here the other day. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap is an almost empty page.
[16:12] <sveta> I don't know what the current focus(es) are.
[16:13] <brainwash> ochosi: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-utils/
[16:14] <brainwash> and the ubuntu package includes a patch which should be dropped
[16:16] <brainwash> so there are some reasons to prepare a new release of xdg-utils
[16:23] <ochosi> anyway, it's extremely silly to first detect a DE (in our case "xfce") and then do a "case $DE in" where xfce isn't handled at all
[16:23] <ochosi> same goes for lxde
[20:00] <Noskcaj> eric_the_idiot, If your still here, could you try and get the upower fix committed to xfce-session git soon? Also, could you please refresh you patch to work with our patched version of session (our logind patch conflicts with it)
[21:12] <brainwash> ochosi: can I add shimmer-themes to the list in bug 1056978?
[21:12] <ubottu> bug 1056978 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056978
[21:13] <brainwash> you plan to provide a version of greybird with thicker borders, right?
[21:14] <ochosi> knome added that to the roadmap
[21:14] <ochosi> currently i don't think i'll have time for greybird-a11y
[21:15] <brainwash> mmh, I wanted to implement the invisible border resizing, but sadly no time to do it either
[21:16] <brainwash> and upstream does not seem to like the invis border idea, because it needs the compositor -> won't fix
[22:20] <Unit193> zequence: Good luck on the 16th, if I don't catch you before then.