[13:11] <Roguehorse> Good Morning
[13:17] <nhaines> Good morning!
[13:20] <akk> Morning!
[13:32] <nhaines> It's still bright and early today.  :)
[13:34] <akk> Indeed it is.
[13:49] <Roguehorse> oh yes
[13:50] <Roguehorse> looks like I just installed the KDE update
[13:50] <nhaines> How is it working?
[13:50] <Roguehorse> haven't rebooted yet
[13:51] <nhaines> Exciting.  :)
[13:51] <Roguehorse> eh, kinda
[13:51] <Roguehorse> just hope nothing breaks - I hate chasing that kinda stuff down
[13:52] <nhaines> Well, that's what I meant by exciting, heh.
[13:52] <Roguehorse> so far with Kubuntu I have had good luck : )
[13:52] <Roguehorse> when I was on openSUSE - not so much
[13:53] <nhaines> We try!  :)
[13:54] <Roguehorse> well, it's obvious why it's the most popular distro : ) (including derivitives)
[13:54] <nhaines> I got off of SuSE in 2003, 2004 because it kept breaking, too.  I was really glad when Ubuntu showed up.
[13:55] <nhaines> Hard to think I've been using it for 9 years now.  :)
[13:56] <Roguehorse> I did Ubuntu for a couple years - openSUSE for a couple - then back again
[13:57] <Roguehorse> I thought the first Unity was hard to adjust to from Gnome 2
[13:58] <nhaines> Unity was a bit of an adjustment.  Alt-~ was the winning move as far as I was concerned, although I liked it enough to fight with it for that first 6 month.
[13:59] <Roguehorse> I liked it and kept it for a while then wanted to experiment with other things
[13:59] <Roguehorse> This is Linux after all - an open book for experimentation
[14:01] <Roguehorse> of course then I learned about VM's and everything changed again : )
[14:01] <nhaines> Yup!  And with Ubuntu being as solid as it is, that's almost free license to experiment.  You can always go back to the standard install. :)
[14:01] <nhaines> Hehe, yeah, VMs work too.
[14:02] <Roguehorse> oh nicely - I have KVM running and VirtualBox
[14:02] <Roguehorse> although I've found my graphics drivers lacking for KVM : (
[14:04] <Roguehorse> trying to play a web browser game on Chrome through KVM is like watching a DVD with a scratch in it
[14:04] <nhaines> That's a poor use of KVM.  :)
[14:04] <nhaines> Although there's always VGA passthrough mode... I think. :)
[14:04] <Roguehorse> I wanted to see what it could do
[14:05] <nhaines> Ooh, actually... maybe that's the solution to my X-Wing Alliance problems.
[14:05] <Roguehorse> I haven't had time to play with it a whole lot
[14:06] <Roguehorse> what? VM?
[14:06] <nhaines> KVM and QEMU with VGA passthrough.
[14:07] <nhaines> VirtualBox doesn't cut it because it uses DirectX 5.
[14:07] <Roguehorse> try it - I'll look inti it and see if things get better
[14:08] <Roguehorse> I like KVM better than VBox but the performance was lacking so I refrained
[14:09] <nhaines> They're two different tools for different scenarios, really.  :)
[14:17] <Roguehorse> lets explore that - Define?
[14:19] <Roguehorse> I know there is argument of whether KVM is really type 1 or 2 and VBox is type 2 - VBox works through the host while KVM goes directly to the kernel - correct?
[14:21] <nhaines> Not really.  It's sort of a gray area.
[14:21] <Roguehorse> which part?
[14:21] <nhaines> KVM is extremely lightweight and can be run without any other software.
[14:22] <nhaines> But VirtualBox is intended to be run in a standard guest environment.  It *can* be run on a server, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to, with KVM around.  :)
[14:22] <nhaines> KVM's more of a server tool and VirtualBox has always been more of a workstation tool.
[14:23] <akk> KVM doens't work on a lot of machines -- it requires CPU extensions that not all processors have.
[14:23] <akk> Virtualbox works on everything.
[14:23] <nhaines> akk: can't KVM use QEMU on machines without VT, though?
[14:23] <Roguehorse> but don't most of the *newer* processors have support?
[14:23] <akk> It couldn't a few years ago. Perhaps things have changed.
[14:24] <akk> Roguehorse: I'm not sure, but I know people said exactly that a couple of years ago and lots of processors still didn't have support then.
[14:24] <akk> Even fairly hefty fast processors sometimes didn't include those extentions.
[14:24] <Roguehorse> I understand - I've read some of the articles
[14:24] <akk> extensions
[14:25] <akk> And it wasn't easy (at least with intel) to figure out which processors/machines would or wouldn't have support.
[14:25] <DonkeyHotei> they still make processors without the extensions
[14:25] <Roguehorse> I think things have changed and VT is now pretty much standard aside from maybe some rare instances
[14:25] <akk> We bought one thinking surely this fast new processor will do it, and nope, it didn't.
[14:26] <Roguehorse> with VM being able to cut down on carbon footprint, consumers are expecting it
[14:26] <akk> Maybe for servers. I'm not convinced most computer buyers have ever heard of virtualization.
[14:27] <nhaines> akk: my favorite part was when the processor supported it but the OEM removed support from the BIOS.
[14:27] <akk> Or heard of power saving, come to that. :)
[14:27] <Roguehorse> akk: ??? you think?
[14:27] <nhaines> I agree with akk.  :)
[14:27] <Roguehorse> come on now - everyone is green! : )
[14:27] <akk> Roguehorse: Think of your average mac or windows user. Why on earth would they know about virtualization flags?
[14:27] <akk> They can't even upload photos from their camera to their computer.
[14:27] <DonkeyHotei> Roguehorse: no, some people are purple
[14:28] <Roguehorse> LOL! (good one)
[14:28] <akk> Green is hard to do too. Have you ever tried to research power use of computers before buying one?
[14:28] <akk> You can't get the numbers at all, in most cases.
[14:28] <akk> It's certainly not something a casual buyer would even try to do.
[14:29] <Roguehorse> I believe it was nhaines who showed me a website that calculates it for you, but you'd have to know about it
[14:29] <Roguehorse> or care : )
[14:29] <akk> And if you're building a machine -- go to Fry's and look at power supplies. You'll see a lot of 500W models. Show me the efficient 80W models.
[14:29] <nhaines> I'm not so sure that was me. :)
[14:29] <Roguehorse> I concur, most people don't think about their consumption
[14:30] <Roguehorse> I know it was from this forum (someone) looking to build a desktop
[14:31] <Roguehorse> I don't remember for sure, but the site was nice. Made all the calculations for you.
[14:33] <nhaines> It does sound nice.  :)
[14:35] <Roguehorse> http://pcpartpicker.com/
[14:35] <darthrobot> Title: [Pick Parts, Build Your PC, Compare and Share - PCPartPicker]
[14:35] <Roguehorse> I knew I saved that link : )
[14:47] <Roguehorse> for sating morbid curiosity, the design in question http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6RQprH
[14:47] <darthrobot> Title: [Intel Core i5-4460, Cooler Master N200 - System Build - PCPartPicker]
[14:48] <Roguehorse> notice the lack of sound or graphics? The discussion entailed the intended use which was for VM implementations
[14:48] <Roguehorse> (as I recall)
[14:52] <akk> Looks useful!
[15:09] <Roguehorse> I does - doesn't it?
[15:10] <Roguehorse> I know when I threw the box I'm on now I researched everything separately
[15:18] <Roguehorse> The GPU stated a min of 500w PS for this NVidia9800GT so I grabbed a Black Widow 550w
[15:22] <akk> yikes
[15:24] <Roguehorse> Yeah, I don't know all the specifics related to that but I didn't want to chance it so I follow the instructions
[15:25] <akk> Definitely more red than green. :)
[15:25] <Roguehorse> that was the only thing that was specific related to power consumption - and it's not even that great of a board really
[15:26] <nhaines> It got really bright outside an hour ago, and I said to myself, "what the fsck is outside the window?"  Then I pulled back the shade and looked directly into the sun.
[15:26] <Roguehorse> well, the GPU was more of a "budget" thing, I had so much money ya know?
[15:27] <Roguehorse> BRIGHT LIGHT - BRIGHT LIGHT!!
[15:27] <Roguehorse> ... and no eating after midnight and absolutely no water!!
[15:56] <Roguehorse> http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
[15:56] <darthrobot> Title: [PSU REQUIREMENTS - RealHardTechX]
[16:04] <Roguehorse> worth reading:  http://www.sigops.org/sosp/sosp09/papers/hotpower_6_ma.pdf
[16:04] <darthrobot> Content type: [application/pdf] Size: [492782]
[16:43] <Roguehorse> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/gpu-consumption2006.html
[16:43] <darthrobot> Title: [The Grand Clash for Watts: Power Consumption of Modern Graphics Cards - X-bit labs]
[17:01] <Roguehorse> hopefully the KDE updates will be all fine and good - should be