[02:34] <RAOF> robert_ancell: XMir?
[02:47] <robert_ancell> RAOF how goes the rootless XMir?
[02:48] <RAOF> It remains on the back burner until I give you various GTK bits.
[02:48] <robert_ancell> RAOF, anything Xorg side that needs fixing or is it mostly in Mir?
[02:49] <robert_ancell> and Unity 8
[02:51] <RAOF> But the X server itself is mostly working.
[02:51] <RAOF> The awkwardness will come, as always, when window management is expected to work :)
[02:51] <RAOF> desrt: Thank you again for complaining about the awkwardness of eventloop integration. This will make XMir & plymouth much more pleasant :)
[02:52] <RAOF> The Xorg side needs a little clean up, but not much. It's mostly in Mir (and then Unity 8)
[02:52] <RAOF> Oh. We _will_ need an X11 window manager to proxy stuff to Mir, if you felt like doing that bit :)
[02:55] <robert_ancell> RAOF, sure, why not
[02:55] <robert_ancell> what's the plan there?
[02:56] <RAOF> A loadable module in the Mir tree that uses http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libxcwm/ (or something like it).
[02:59] <robert_ancell> RAOF, will XMir be built into Mir?
[02:59] <RAOF> No.
[03:00] <robert_ancell> Why would the X window manager be in Mir then?
[03:00] <RAOF> Because nothing outside Mir knows about window management?
[03:00] <robert_ancell> Unity?
[03:00] <RAOF> The idea is to make XMir windows look like Mir surfaces as far as the shell is concerned.
[03:00] <RAOF> Ah, _that's_ the question.
[03:01] <RAOF> Right, it could be in Unity, but X11 integration is something that lots of shells are going to care about, so it's ideally in Mir itself.
[03:02] <robert_ancell> So it will be a core feature of Mir, i.e. "Mir supports clients using the Mir or X11 protocols"
[03:02] <RAOF> *: With external tools
[03:02] <RAOF> But, yeah.
[03:02] <robert_ancell> And will the X server launching be done my Mir too?
[03:02] <robert_ancell> by Mir
[03:03] <RAOF> The idea discussed with tedg was to have ubuntu-app-launch spawn an XMir server, have XMir connect to Mir and request a wm from Mir.
[03:03] <desrt> RAOF: :)
[03:03]  * RAOF wanted to do X server launching by Mir, but this also works.
[03:04] <robert_ancell> How does ubuntu-app-launch know it needs one? I assumed we'd have some sort of default DISPLAY socket that would spawn off a new server on each connect
[03:04] <RAOF> We assume that anything in /usr/share/applications needs an X server, and anything click-packaged can opt-in for an X server.
[03:05] <robert_ancell> That's fairly bold
[03:05] <RAOF> Yeah, my plan was to do a socket-activated thing but tedg doesn't like that (for application-confinement reasons)
[03:07] <RAOF> You're welcome to argue with tedg about this :)
[03:08] <desrt> *cough* dbus
[03:09] <robert_ancell> RAOF, is XWayland/GNOME using libxcwm?
[03:09] <RAOF> Not AFAIK.
[03:10] <robert_ancell> what are they doing?
[03:10] <RAOF> Raw xcb, I think.
[04:23] <pitti> Good morning
[08:02] <larsu> desrt: ya, I saw the bug...
[08:02] <larsu> morning everyone!
[08:02] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:02] <seb128> hey larsu
[08:02] <larsu> seb128: hello again :)
[08:03] <seb128> ;-)
[08:03] <Laney> hey hey
[08:03] <larsu> morning Laney!
[08:03] <didrocks> hey larsu!
[08:03] <didrocks> and Laney and seb128 ;)
[08:03] <larsu> morning^2 didrocks!
[08:04] <Laney> what's with all this squaring
[08:04] <larsu> Laney: already said good morning to the Frenchmen
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:05] <seb128> lut didrocks ;-)
[08:05] <Laney> pretty alright!
[08:07]  * didrocks wonders why so much failure in so little changes… ;)
[08:07] <seb128> good that you have tests to tell you!
[08:07] <Laney> "it's only a littttle syntax error"
[08:07] <seb128> it's a compiler bug!
[08:07] <Laney> "come on, can't you put that semicolon in by yourself?"
[08:07] <Laney> grr compilers
[08:08] <seb128> ;-)
[08:08] <didrocks> héhé
[08:08] <didrocks> actually, it's my super tearDown check
[08:08] <didrocks> where I can say if I expect to have warnings or errors
[08:08] <didrocks> and it yells otherwise (on test by test basis)
[08:09] <didrocks> that way, I ensure I have no unexpected warnings or errors spawn
[08:13] <didrocks> arf, found it…
[08:13]  * didrocks hates that python doesn't define if (something), forcing that thing to be True or False
[08:13] <didrocks> like in any sane language… like… I don't know… Dart :p
[08:13] <didrocks> that would avoid:
[08:13] <didrocks> if is_completion_mode:
[08:13] <didrocks> instead of:
[08:13] <didrocks> if is_completion_mode():
[08:15] <larsu> didrocks: I don't understand. What's is_completion_mode?
[08:16] <larsu> python has coercion to booleans, no?
[08:17] <didrocks> larsu: yeah, which is the issue. It's testing that is_completion_mode is defined (and a function in that case)
[08:17] <didrocks> so "if is_completion_mode" is always True
[08:17] <larsu> ah, that's what you mean
[08:17] <didrocks> and don't run the function to test if I'm in completion mode ;)
[08:17] <larsu> that's a bit annoying indeed
[08:18] <didrocks> yeah, small typo to find…
[08:18] <larsu> you're always in completion mode!
[08:18] <didrocks> yep
[08:18] <didrocks> in Dart, it would tell you "hum… this isn't a boolean…"
[08:18] <larsu> but then you need to explicitely test for other stuff as well, like empty lists
[08:18] <larsu> but actually, I think I prefer that
[08:19] <didrocks> yeah, there is an f.EmptyList() method on the List class
[08:19] <didrocks> for that
[08:19] <didrocks> ok .empty() rather
[08:19]  * didrocks opens API doc
[08:20] <didrocks> https://api.dartlang.org/apidocs/channels/stable/dartdoc-viewer/dart-core.List#id_isEmpty
[08:20] <Laney> aren't you supposed to catch exceptions instead of checking for all the things in python?
[08:20] <Laney> EAFP or something
[08:21]  * larsu doesn't know
[08:21] <didrocks> Laney: hum, not sure it's related to that… Here I use that function to avoid the env variable tested in one place instead of everywhere
[08:21] <didrocks> on using expections… there are 2 schools of thoughts AFAIK
[08:22] <Laney> I mean for things like checking for empty lists
[08:22] <Laney> https://docs.python.org/2/glossary.html#term-eafp
[08:23] <didrocks> ah, yeah, a lot of people do that to avoid eventual races
[08:25] <larsu> Laney: I just used that as an example for the type coercion
[08:26] <Laney> ah
[08:28] <didrocks> Laney: Dart doesn't have threads, so it's not a real issue for that one. Only isolates (which have separated memory)
[08:30] <Laney> It's partly (or maybe mainly in the absence of threads) about code clarity as well as avoiding races
[08:32]  * didrocks doesn't find it clarify the code :)
[08:32] <seb128> it's also more efficient for the normal case, since you don't run a check when not needed
[10:21] <xnox> anybody wants to port gnome-media-player to xine-lib-1.2 ?
[10:21] <xnox> also what is gnome-media-player
[10:22] <seb128> I doubt we want to do that
[10:22] <seb128> some universe package
[10:22] <Laney> never heard of it
[10:22] <seb128> which didn't see an update since natty
[10:22] <Laney> go ask the uploader
[10:22] <seb128> same version since maverick in fact
[10:23] <ogra_> wasnt that a gnome2 thing anyway ?
[10:23] <ogra_> why is it stil areound
[10:23] <ogra_> *around
[10:23] <seb128> it was never a GNOME thing
[10:23] <xnox> dunno, but gnome-media-player is the last dep on xinelib1 which FTBFS against libav10 which holds up the world in proposed migration
[10:24] <seb128> drop it from the I archive I say
[10:24] <ogra_> ++
[10:24] <seb128> it still use gconf
[10:24]  * xnox fudges in building against xin-lib-1.2 and sees what happes.
[10:24] <Laney> demote it to proposed, mail uploader, wait x days, remove
[10:24] <seb128> it hasn't been maintained for years
[10:24] <xnox> meh, uploaded.
[10:24] <Laney> it builds?
[10:24] <seb128> Laney, you can email xnox now :p
[10:25] <Laney> T I L !
[10:25] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player
[10:25] <seb128> the trunk is https://code.launchpad.net/~lamothe-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount/gnome-media-player/0.2-new
[10:25] <seb128> see the username
[10:25] <xnox> well off to file a remove request for xine-lib
[10:25] <seb128> no commit since 2011
[10:25] <xnox> yeah.
[10:25] <Laney> it does seem crufty
[10:25] <xnox> seb128: i'll talk to lamont about it.
[10:26] <Laney> la..mont?
[10:26] <seb128> lol
[10:26] <xnox> lol =))))
[13:30] <Estilanda> hola
[14:17] <Laney> aah
[14:17] <Laney> reboot dialog just stole focus and the active button was 'reboot now'
[14:17] <Laney> hope that's an xmonad problem ;-)
[14:24] <didrocks> ok, going for a late run
[14:33] <gatox> seb128, hi, do you know who i can talk to about the  component from QtSystemInfo in the phone?? as far as i can see, that is working on my desktop, but being completely ignored in the phone (detecting plug, unplug, etc)
[14:33] <gatox> seb128, the BatteryInfo component
[14:38] <seb128> gatox, weird, that was working before
[14:38] <seb128> it maybe got buggy with 5.3?
[14:38] <seb128> I would usually recommend Mirv but he's on holiday
[14:39] <seb128> you can try checking with pmcgowan or bzoltan
[14:39] <gatox> seb128, :S no idea.... any app that is using it to check that it isn't really my code? because i always get the same values... and not signals
[14:39] <gatox> seb128, and it's working on the desktop
[14:39] <gatox> seb128, ack, thanks
[14:39] <seb128> gatox, I would just run the example through qmlscene
[14:39] <seb128> I can try that in a bit here if you want
[14:39] <seb128> otherwise maybe just use the battery backend we have in settings
[14:40] <seb128> you can probably add another function there if you need to wrap another upower dbus call
[14:41] <gatox> seb128, i'll check in settings... the code from the examples was the one that was failing in the phone for me..... if you can check, i really appreaciate it
[14:43] <pmcgowan> seb128, you think that was working before? I know a lot of the API never did, I assumed we needed work in qtubuntu
[14:44] <gatox> seb128, ok.... at least i see it working in system settings.... so i will check that
[14:57] <seb128> pmcgowan, well, qtsystems was working in saucy, we used it a first for the battery info in system settings
[14:59] <seb128> gatox, it's working on the phone for me
[14:59] <seb128> gatox, I installed qtsystems5-examples and ran
[14:59] <seb128> $ qmlscene /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/examples/sysinfo/qml-battery/qml-battery.qml --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/ubuntu-system-settings.desktop
[14:59] <seb128> that gives a screen saying the device is charging with the % etc
[14:59] <gatox> seb128, weird..... anyway.... system settings is using the same and it's working for me in the phone.... so i'll take a look there, the weird thing is that what i have  was working on my desktp but not in my phone
[15:00] <seb128> (running that with the phablet user, "su - phablet"
[15:01] <gatox> seb128, could it be a confinent issue?? i was testing this in another app i just created
[15:01] <seb128> could be I guess
[15:01] <seb128> gatox, btw settings don't use those bindings anymore, see plugins/battery/battery.cpp
[15:01] <seb128> we use libupower-glib in a cpp backend
[15:02] <seb128> qtsystems was a bit too limited for what we had to do
[15:02] <gatox> seb128, it's using it to detect the chargingstate which is what i want
[15:03] <seb128> right, that should be working
[15:10] <pmcgowan> gatox, yes another app would be confined and unable to work
[15:16] <gatox> pmcgowan, yap... that was the problem
[15:19] <seb128> gatox, btw, I would appreciate a review for https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/update-uis-tweaks/+merge/224463 if you can look at it, it should be an easy one
[15:20] <gatox> seb128, ack! looking
[15:25] <gatox> seb128, done... i left a couple of inline comments
[15:26] <seb128> gatox, thanks
[15:30] <seb128> gatox, seems like that didn't work? you need to hit the submit button from the top comment to have the "commit"
[15:30] <gatox> seb128, ah i forgot save comments
[15:30] <gatox> seb128, there
[15:50] <seb128> gatox_lunch, k, replied if you want to have another look
[16:12] <didrocks> the video quality of Google I/O Live is amazing
[16:13] <didrocks> and the menu layering on top of the video
[16:13] <seb128> shame they can't make nice stuff for stuff public use like hangout...
[16:14] <didrocks> yeah, well it's not the same constraints "just" to broadcast one stream
[16:15] <seb128> right
[16:16] <seb128> on that note, time for some exercice
[16:16] <seb128> be back in ~1h
[16:16] <didrocks> enjoy seb128 :)
[16:16] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[16:16] <seb128> same for you
[16:16] <seb128> enjoy the google show ;-)
[16:17] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[16:28] <didrocks> polymer is going to contain every android UI toolkit content
[16:28] <didrocks> remember a thread? ;)
[16:30] <didrocks> dbarth: as this touches what your team is working on ^
[16:31] <gatox> seb128, which question do you have?
[16:32] <gatox> seb128, i think it would be best to change: updateManager.model.length > 1 to root.updatesAvailable > 1
[16:34] <didrocks> ah… and they have snap decisions ;)
[16:34] <didrocks> (in L)
[16:41] <didrocks> ah, and tabs like our webapps story in their app switcher :)
[16:42] <didrocks> nice to see we are not at odds with some of our design patterns
[17:46] <seb128> gatox, oh, ok, makes sense
[17:47] <gatox> seb128, let me know when you push and i'll approve it
[17:47] <seb128> k
[18:06] <seb128> gatox, done
[18:07] <gatox> seb128, approved
[18:10] <seb128> gatox, thanks
[20:51] <robert_ancell> bregma, I can haz log out of Unity 8? \o/