| Kilos | morning all | 05:20 |
|---|---|---|
| bduk1 | Morning everyone | 05:22 |
| mazal | Morning everyone | 05:31 |
| Kilos | hi bduk1 mazal | 05:31 |
| mazal | Sorry oom , ek het vergeet | 05:32 |
| Kilos | sies man | 05:32 |
| mazal | Weet nie hoe nie, ek het die reminder email unread gelos om my andag te trek , en google calendar was veronderstel om my te herhinner | 05:33 |
| Kilos | lol | 05:33 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | morning peeps | 06:17 |
| Kilos | hi ThatGraemeGuy | 06:17 |
| * ThatGraemeGuy pokes superfly with a stick | 06:51 | |
| plustwo | good morning everyone o/ | 06:55 |
| Kilos | hi plustwo what woke you up | 06:58 |
| plustwo | a twitching right eye | 06:59 |
| plustwo | :) | 06:59 |
| plustwo | was playing around with SLEPOS VM install last night ... | 07:00 |
| Kilos | ai! forced reboot | 07:05 |
| Kilos | tswane power peeps decided i needed a 40 sec break ggrrrrr | 07:06 |
| superfly | ohi | 07:19 |
| Kilos | morning superfly | 07:22 |
| charl_ | morning Kilos, superfly, plustwo, ThatGraemeGuy | 07:34 |
| charl_ | Maaz: coffee on | 07:34 |
| * Maaz starts grinding coffee | 07:34 | |
| ThatGraemeGuy | morning | 07:34 |
| Kilos | hi charl_ | 07:35 |
| Kilos | Maaz, coffee please | 07:35 |
| Maaz | Kilos: Yessir | 07:35 |
| Maaz | Coffee's ready for charl_ and Kilos! | 07:38 |
| charl_ | Maaz: thanks | 07:38 |
| Maaz | charl_: Sure | 07:38 |
| superfly | hi charl_ | 07:42 |
| charl_ | hi smile | 07:42 |
| smile | hoi charl_ :p | 07:44 |
| charl_ | fire | 07:44 |
| charl_ | oops sorry, wrong window :) | 07:44 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | :-o | 07:48 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | you have another IRC chat with US troops in the middle east? | 07:48 |
| charl_ | lol no | 07:50 |
| Kilos | hehe | 07:51 |
| Vince-0 | o/ | 07:58 |
| Kilos | hi Vince-0 | 07:59 |
| charl_ | i Vince-0 | 08:06 |
| charl_ | hi drussell | 08:06 |
| drussell | charl_: yo! | 08:06 |
| Vince-0 | G'day | 08:09 |
| charl_ | :) | 08:09 |
| JabberwockyA19 | morning all o/ | 08:12 |
| Kilos | hi JabberwockyA19 die_held | 08:14 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | 'lo | 08:18 |
| charl_ | hi JabberwockyA19 | 08:22 |
| charl_ | makulu linux - interesting | 09:21 |
| charl_ | it's been a while since i've seen a *real* south african distro of linux | 09:21 |
| charl_ | most of those projects seem to have died out | 09:21 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | it takes a lot of resources to maintain one | 09:31 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | and what makes SA so special that we need a distro of our own? | 09:32 |
| charl_ | i don't see why we need so many different distros in the first place | 09:32 |
| charl_ | most don't seem to offer much out of the ordinary | 09:32 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | precisely | 09:32 |
| charl_ | and yes, good point indeed | 09:32 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | it's human arrogance | 09:32 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | "oh, i can do it better than that" .... *starts new distro* | 09:32 |
| charl_ | i like the spirit of freedom and choice in the open source community | 09:33 |
| charl_ | but i think there is such a thing as "now it's just getting ridiculous" | 09:33 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | yeah | 09:33 |
| charl_ | i like the idea of remixes more, where you can do a simple remix by including particular configuration based on an existing distro | 09:40 |
| charl_ | and then you just call it a remix and don't make a new distro out of it | 09:40 |
| Private_User | hi all | 09:43 |
| Private_User | hi charl_, ThatGraemeGuy, Kilos and everybody else | 09:43 |
| Private_User | maybe we should as a collective start our own distro from scratch not based on any of the existing distros? | 09:44 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | 'lo | 09:45 |
| Private_User | but you guys are right lost of work and much resources are needed | 09:45 |
| Private_User | *lots | 09:45 |
| Private_User | but I guess most of us here are just a tad bit too loyal to ubuntu | 09:46 |
| Private_User | alternatively we could start a completely new OS based on nothing, sjoe but thats even more work and will probably take months maybe even years to complete | 09:48 |
| Private_User | hehe | 09:48 |
| charl_ | hi Private_User | 09:50 |
| charl_ | i think the problem is that a lot of open source projects are started for the lol or to "scratch a personal itch" | 09:54 |
| charl_ | instead of looking at the actual wants/needs out there and fulfilling those | 09:54 |
| Private_User | yep agreed there charl_ and most of these distros just change the look and feel | 10:40 |
| Kilos | whats to worry about with this message | 10:41 |
| Kilos | (synaptic:17133): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_child_watch_add_full: assertion 'pid > 0' failed | 10:41 |
| superfly | Kilos: I've seen that often, even in non-gtk apps... it doesn't seem to do anything, I just ignore it | 10:42 |
| Kilos | cool ty superfly | 10:43 |
| Trixar_za | Private_User: It's harder to build from scratch than you'd think | 12:24 |
| charl_ | yeah if it was so easy everyone would have done it | 12:25 |
| charl_ | and then you need hardware support etc | 12:25 |
| Private_User | yeah I would assume so but then again you right harder that I probably can imagine but not impossible I would say just alot of work requiring lots of resources | 12:26 |
| Trixar_za | You do get tools to make it simpler, but they themselves just automate tasks. Those tasks still need to be configured by hand before they work though. | 12:26 |
| Trixar_za | And you're a little screwed if you don't know how to configure the basic requirements :/ | 12:27 |
| Trixar_za | Like compiling the Linux kernel and which options you'd need | 12:27 |
| charl_ | i thought you all were talking about writing a new kernel | 12:27 |
| charl_ | if you want to base it on linux, it's actually quite doable | 12:27 |
| charl_ | but firstly you would need a good reason to start from scratch and not simply contribute to the linux kernel itself | 12:28 |
| Trixar_za | Took me a month to learn enough to use Buildroot to automate some parts. And I still got it wrong the first time :P | 12:28 |
| charl_ | if you take a large project like debian, ubuntu, redhat etc you need to see how many specialists work together to make it happen | 12:29 |
| Trixar_za | Downside with Buildroot is that it doesn't do everything for you. You have to add the Desktop Environment yourself if you need it. It does however create a nice small Linux build with Busybox options :P | 12:29 |
| charl_ | you need good package management software | 12:30 |
| Trixar_za | Debian and Ubuntu has a lot of moving parts and people don't always follow the guidelines | 12:30 |
| charl_ | and good software repositories | 12:30 |
| charl_ | there has never been a "standard" way to ship software on linux platforms | 12:31 |
| charl_ | every distro cooks its own package management and/or repositories | 12:31 |
| charl_ | or they simply base it off some existing distro like what ubuntu did with debian | 12:31 |
| charl_ | and the two projects still share code back and forth | 12:31 |
| Trixar_za | Yeah, but that's where other distros can come into play. You can use their repositories. I was thinking of using SliTaz's one myself and have it fill in the gaps. Maybe reverse engineer a way for the packages compiled by buildroot to be passed back into SliTaz as a package for it. | 12:31 |
| Trixar_za | There's a Puppy Linux that does the same with Ubuntu | 12:32 |
| charl_ | if you want to ship software for linux it's a huge problem because you either need to deal with the fact that distros ship outdated versions of your software or you need to maintain your own repositories | 12:33 |
| charl_ | if you maintain your own repositories you once again need to build a bunch of different packages (pkg, rpm, etc etc) | 12:33 |
| Trixar_za | And if you have too many packages, that in itself becomes hard | 12:34 |
| charl_ | yup | 12:35 |
| charl_ | well you end up with a mess of repositories in your apt/yum config too | 12:35 |
| charl_ | becomes very hard to manage, and then you need to manage the keys | 12:36 |
| charl_ | it's extremely poorly thought out and implemented (for modern day's standards) | 12:36 |
| Trixar_za | Probably why you need a few people to help you out with it | 12:37 |
| Trixar_za | I think that's Puppy's problem. Everybody creates packages, but nobody invents a way to manage them. | 12:37 |
| charl_ | lol | 12:37 |
| charl_ | well what you really need to come up with is a new design for package management entirely | 12:38 |
| charl_ | where you can push off some of the responsibilities of maintaining individual packages to the actual owners of the software | 12:38 |
| charl_ | or at least for all packages/software that is not officially maintained by the distro itself | 12:39 |
| charl_ | you will also need to standardise packaging formats so that all distros can make use of them in the same way | 12:39 |
| charl_ | so you don't have both a dpkg and rpm but you have one "universal" linux package | 12:39 |
| Trixar_za | That would require a simple way to turn compiled code into packages. That should be simple enough for most developers. | 12:40 |
| charl_ | Trixar_za: that's not the biggest issue, all packages have pretty similar stricture | 12:41 |
| charl_ | you have some assets (images, etc) together with the binaries and config | 12:41 |
| charl_ | most distros also standardise the locations for those | 12:41 |
| charl_ | (considering that most of them do not strictly adhere to the filesystem hierarchy standard) | 12:41 |
| charl_ | and besides, the FHS is pretty vague in any case | 12:42 |
| charl_ | the biggest issue you have is dependency management | 12:42 |
| charl_ | in particular, different versions of software | 12:42 |
| charl_ | maven does an extremely good job of that, i wish we had that for all software, not only java | 12:42 |
| Trixar_za | Yeah, you do get developers that are a little 'latest dependency version as soon as it appears' crazy | 12:42 |
| charl_ | well it's a good idea to try and "keep up with the times" but you first need to test it after upgrading | 12:43 |
| charl_ | i have seen some of the strangest issues crop up when you don't expect it .. :( | 12:43 |
| charl_ | most of this stuff isn't difficult it's just that technology evolves over time and these processes have not been standardised | 12:44 |
| charl_ | imho we need some type of linux standards body almost like we have with the w3c for web standards | 12:44 |
| charl_ | otherwise everyone just ends up doing their own thing and it turns into complete chaos (which is what we have now) | 12:44 |
| charl_ | having to package software for a number of different operating systems is almost just like browser-specific coding on websites | 12:45 |
| Trixar_za | People will probably ignore it like the w3c too :P | 12:45 |
| charl_ | the w3c is not being ignored, i think they have made amazing progress in the last 10 years | 12:45 |
| charl_ | if i compare where we are at today compared to 10 years ago, a lot has changed (for the better too!) | 12:46 |
| Kilos | sjoe ThatGraemeGuy what you put in there? | 13:54 |
| Kilos | Maaz, coffee on | 13:55 |
| * Maaz washes some mugs | 13:55 | |
| Kilos | Maaz, larger | 13:55 |
| Maaz | inna bucket for you Kilos | 13:55 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | eh? | 13:56 |
| Kilos | killed my power for 3 hours | 13:56 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | oops | 13:56 |
| Maaz | Coffee's ready for Kilos! | 13:59 |
| Kilos | Maaz, gracias | 13:59 |
| Maaz | Kilos: ¡de nada! | 13:59 |
| === deegee__ is now known as drussell | ||
| Golynx | what does a broken playstation 2 and my laptop have in commen ? | 14:39 |
| Kilos | performance | 14:55 |
| Kilos | common | 14:56 |
| Golynx | oh "common" :D | 14:56 |
| Golynx | nope not performance | 14:56 |
| Kilos | hmm... | 14:56 |
| Kilos | they both dont work | 14:56 |
| Golynx | nope * cold | 14:57 |
| Kilos | ?: | 14:57 |
| Golynx | ok the answer is, they both got the same charging pin :) | 14:57 |
| Kilos | ah you so lucky | 14:58 |
| Kilos | now break that one too | 14:58 |
| Golynx | the hot pin problem is gone after i fitted the playstations charger pin to the laptops charger | 14:58 |
| Golynx | lol | 14:58 |
| Golynx | the old pin had broken connections that caused the heat | 14:59 |
| Kilos | its you okes that lie in bed with lappy on knees that break charger pins | 14:59 |
| Golynx | nope built a special lappy desk, that it just a plank screwed onto a wooden table lol | 15:00 |
| Kilos | then how did that pin break | 15:01 |
| Kilos | its like peesp say things just broke but if you look in museums there are the same things that have never broken | 15:01 |
| Kilos | peeps break things | 15:01 |
| Golynx | i had this laptop about 4 years now and used it in charge alot , so the movements around i guess broken the pins inside | 15:02 |
| Kilos | well im happy for you the prob is solved | 15:02 |
| Golynx | yeah me too :) | 15:03 |
| JabberwockyA19 | my dad gets a new laptop every now and then from work, most of the newer things breaks after a few years (no rough handling and seldomly takes it out of the office) there's this one laptop though that does not want to give in http://www.cnet.com/products/hp-compaq-nx9010-series/ | 15:21 |
| JabberwockyA19 | it's the 3.06ghz edtion, does get very hot performing almost any task including opening the start menu | 15:23 |
| JabberwockyA19 | does your laptop use a 19V PSU ? | 15:26 |
| * JabberwockyA19 googles ps 2 psu | 15:26 | |
| Golynx | i also got a hp compaq , but with an AMD cpu | 15:28 |
| Golynx | i think so | 15:28 |
| Golynx | i just cut the cable from the playstation charger and cut the laptop charger cable and connected it like that | 15:28 |
| JabberwockyA19 | i will check it out! | 15:29 |
| JabberwockyA19 | need to run quickly, bbl | 15:29 |
| smile | good night :) | 18:28 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | 'lo peeps | 18:43 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | lo peeps | 18:43 |
| ThatGraemeGuy | oh, now that's lag :-o | 18:44 |
| superfly | hi ThatGraemeGuy | 18:51 |
| * superfly finally sat down at the PC | 18:52 | |
| Kilos | eish another power out | 19:12 |
| Kilos | 5 hours no power today | 19:12 |
| superfly | hi Kilos | 19:33 |
| Kilos | hi superfly | 19:33 |
| spinza | Kilos: where did the power go out? | 19:45 |
| Kilos | hi spinza pta west | 19:45 |
| Kilos | 3 times today | 19:46 |
| spinza | ouch | 19:46 |
| Kilos | ya | 19:46 |
| spinza | have you played with a wandboard | 19:51 |
| spinza | it is a mission to get a ubuntu + graphics + all the other things running | 19:52 |
| Kilos | nope what is that | 19:52 |
| spinza | armhf based hardware. bit like a pi only more powerful | 19:52 |
| Kilos | its the other things i battle with | 19:52 |
| Kilos | nope ive only used desktops | 19:53 |
| spinza | http://www.wandboard.org/ | 19:53 |
| spinza | thought if i could get ubuntu running on it, it should be a nice little lounge pc and home theatre system | 19:53 |
| spinza | i have something but it has a fan and is noisy | 19:54 |
| spinza | now i've had to compile kernels !! | 19:55 |
| spinza | and things i've never done before | 19:55 |
| Kilos | lol | 19:55 |
| spinza | lol yeah but it's a bit annoying | 19:57 |
| spinza | you'd thought they'd have an image ready with a basic os that supports the hardware | 19:58 |
| spinza | the ubuntu image they supply is armel. runs some less than optimal emulation which is not even required as the hardware is present | 19:59 |
| Kilos | thats all too involved for me' | 20:00 |
| charl_ | good evening people | 20:14 |
| charl_ | whow still very light outside | 20:14 |
| Kilos | hi charl_ | 20:14 |
| charl_ | sun setting around midnight now | 20:14 |
| charl_ | hi Kilos | 20:14 |
| Kilos | haha no man i was without power for 5 hours today so catching up | 20:19 |
| charl_ | bah :( | 20:19 |
| charl_ | are they shedding their load again ? | 20:20 |
| Kilos | they say no but who knows | 20:20 |
| charl_ | that level of technical incompetence is almost unimaginable in 2014 | 20:20 |
| Kilos | its all the years of no expansion and less maintenance since 94 | 20:21 |
| Kilos | now they playing catch up | 20:21 |
| charl_ | sounds like they are getting even further behind | 20:22 |
| charl_ | although i can remember aorund 2005/2006 i was in south africa and the power was horrible then too | 20:22 |
| charl_ | we spent almost entire days with only a few hours of electricity | 20:22 |
| charl_ | reminds me of when i was in kenya, the water only runs for a few hours a day | 20:22 |
| charl_ | so every household or business has its own tank to catch up the water | 20:23 |
| charl_ | and then pump it out again later when it's needed | 20:23 |
| charl_ | unimaginable to people living in europe | 20:23 |
| Kilos | hehe | 21:10 |
| Kilos | life in africa | 21:10 |
| Kilos | i go crash now | 21:10 |
| Kilos | night all. sleep tight | 21:10 |
| Kilos | superfly, bed time | 21:11 |
| charl_ | me too | 21:11 |
| charl_ | nn all | 21:11 |
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