[05:20] morning all [05:22] Morning everyone [05:31] Morning everyone [05:31] hi bduk1 mazal [05:32] Sorry oom , ek het vergeet [05:32] sies man [05:33] Weet nie hoe nie, ek het die reminder email unread gelos om my andag te trek , en google calendar was veronderstel om my te herhinner [05:33] lol [06:17] morning peeps [06:17] hi ThatGraemeGuy [06:51] * ThatGraemeGuy pokes superfly with a stick [06:55] good morning everyone o/ [06:58] hi plustwo what woke you up [06:59] a twitching right eye [06:59] :) [07:00] was playing around with SLEPOS VM install last night ... [07:05] ai! forced reboot [07:06] tswane power peeps decided i needed a 40 sec break ggrrrrr [07:19] ohi [07:22] morning superfly [07:34] morning Kilos, superfly, plustwo, ThatGraemeGuy [07:34] Maaz: coffee on [07:34] * Maaz starts grinding coffee [07:34] morning [07:35] hi charl_ [07:35] Maaz, coffee please [07:35] Kilos: Yessir [07:38] Coffee's ready for charl_ and Kilos! [07:38] Maaz: thanks [07:38] charl_: Sure [07:42] hi charl_ [07:42] hi smile [07:44] hoi charl_ :p [07:44] fire [07:44] oops sorry, wrong window :) [07:48] :-o [07:48] you have another IRC chat with US troops in the middle east? [07:50] lol no [07:51] hehe [07:58] o/ [07:59] hi Vince-0 [08:06] i Vince-0 [08:06] hi drussell [08:06] charl_: yo! [08:09] G'day [08:09] :) [08:12] morning all o/ [08:14] hi JabberwockyA19 die_held [08:18] 'lo [08:22] hi JabberwockyA19 [09:21] makulu linux - interesting [09:21] it's been a while since i've seen a *real* south african distro of linux [09:21] most of those projects seem to have died out [09:31] it takes a lot of resources to maintain one [09:32] and what makes SA so special that we need a distro of our own? [09:32] i don't see why we need so many different distros in the first place [09:32] most don't seem to offer much out of the ordinary [09:32] precisely [09:32] and yes, good point indeed [09:32] it's human arrogance [09:32] "oh, i can do it better than that" .... *starts new distro* [09:33] i like the spirit of freedom and choice in the open source community [09:33] but i think there is such a thing as "now it's just getting ridiculous" [09:33] yeah [09:40] i like the idea of remixes more, where you can do a simple remix by including particular configuration based on an existing distro [09:40] and then you just call it a remix and don't make a new distro out of it [09:43] hi all [09:43] hi charl_, ThatGraemeGuy, Kilos and everybody else [09:44] maybe we should as a collective start our own distro from scratch not based on any of the existing distros? [09:45] 'lo [09:45] but you guys are right lost of work and much resources are needed [09:45] *lots [09:46] but I guess most of us here are just a tad bit too loyal to ubuntu [09:48] alternatively we could start a completely new OS based on nothing, sjoe but thats even more work and will probably take months maybe even years to complete [09:48] hehe [09:50] hi Private_User [09:54] i think the problem is that a lot of open source projects are started for the lol or to "scratch a personal itch" [09:54] instead of looking at the actual wants/needs out there and fulfilling those [10:40] yep agreed there charl_ and most of these distros just change the look and feel [10:41] whats to worry about with this message [10:41] (synaptic:17133): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_child_watch_add_full: assertion 'pid > 0' failed [10:42] Kilos: I've seen that often, even in non-gtk apps... it doesn't seem to do anything, I just ignore it [10:43] cool ty superfly [12:24] Private_User: It's harder to build from scratch than you'd think [12:25] yeah if it was so easy everyone would have done it [12:25] and then you need hardware support etc [12:26] yeah I would assume so but then again you right harder that I probably can imagine but not impossible I would say just alot of work requiring lots of resources [12:26] You do get tools to make it simpler, but they themselves just automate tasks. Those tasks still need to be configured by hand before they work though. [12:27] And you're a little screwed if you don't know how to configure the basic requirements :/ [12:27] Like compiling the Linux kernel and which options you'd need [12:27] i thought you all were talking about writing a new kernel [12:27] if you want to base it on linux, it's actually quite doable [12:28] but firstly you would need a good reason to start from scratch and not simply contribute to the linux kernel itself [12:28] Took me a month to learn enough to use Buildroot to automate some parts. And I still got it wrong the first time :P [12:29] if you take a large project like debian, ubuntu, redhat etc you need to see how many specialists work together to make it happen [12:29] Downside with Buildroot is that it doesn't do everything for you. You have to add the Desktop Environment yourself if you need it. It does however create a nice small Linux build with Busybox options :P [12:30] you need good package management software [12:30] Debian and Ubuntu has a lot of moving parts and people don't always follow the guidelines [12:30] and good software repositories [12:31] there has never been a "standard" way to ship software on linux platforms [12:31] every distro cooks its own package management and/or repositories [12:31] or they simply base it off some existing distro like what ubuntu did with debian [12:31] and the two projects still share code back and forth [12:31] Yeah, but that's where other distros can come into play. You can use their repositories. I was thinking of using SliTaz's one myself and have it fill in the gaps. Maybe reverse engineer a way for the packages compiled by buildroot to be passed back into SliTaz as a package for it. [12:32] There's a Puppy Linux that does the same with Ubuntu [12:33] if you want to ship software for linux it's a huge problem because you either need to deal with the fact that distros ship outdated versions of your software or you need to maintain your own repositories [12:33] if you maintain your own repositories you once again need to build a bunch of different packages (pkg, rpm, etc etc) [12:34] And if you have too many packages, that in itself becomes hard [12:35] yup [12:35] well you end up with a mess of repositories in your apt/yum config too [12:36] becomes very hard to manage, and then you need to manage the keys [12:36] it's extremely poorly thought out and implemented (for modern day's standards) [12:37] Probably why you need a few people to help you out with it [12:37] I think that's Puppy's problem. Everybody creates packages, but nobody invents a way to manage them. [12:37] lol [12:38] well what you really need to come up with is a new design for package management entirely [12:38] where you can push off some of the responsibilities of maintaining individual packages to the actual owners of the software [12:39] or at least for all packages/software that is not officially maintained by the distro itself [12:39] you will also need to standardise packaging formats so that all distros can make use of them in the same way [12:39] so you don't have both a dpkg and rpm but you have one "universal" linux package [12:40] That would require a simple way to turn compiled code into packages. That should be simple enough for most developers. [12:41] Trixar_za: that's not the biggest issue, all packages have pretty similar stricture [12:41] you have some assets (images, etc) together with the binaries and config [12:41] most distros also standardise the locations for those [12:41] (considering that most of them do not strictly adhere to the filesystem hierarchy standard) [12:42] and besides, the FHS is pretty vague in any case [12:42] the biggest issue you have is dependency management [12:42] in particular, different versions of software [12:42] maven does an extremely good job of that, i wish we had that for all software, not only java [12:42] Yeah, you do get developers that are a little 'latest dependency version as soon as it appears' crazy [12:43] well it's a good idea to try and "keep up with the times" but you first need to test it after upgrading [12:43] i have seen some of the strangest issues crop up when you don't expect it .. :( [12:44] most of this stuff isn't difficult it's just that technology evolves over time and these processes have not been standardised [12:44] imho we need some type of linux standards body almost like we have with the w3c for web standards [12:44] otherwise everyone just ends up doing their own thing and it turns into complete chaos (which is what we have now) [12:45] having to package software for a number of different operating systems is almost just like browser-specific coding on websites [12:45] People will probably ignore it like the w3c too :P [12:45] the w3c is not being ignored, i think they have made amazing progress in the last 10 years [12:46] if i compare where we are at today compared to 10 years ago, a lot has changed (for the better too!) [13:54] sjoe ThatGraemeGuy what you put in there? [13:55] Maaz, coffee on [13:55] * Maaz washes some mugs [13:55] Maaz, larger [13:55] inna bucket for you Kilos [13:56] eh? [13:56] killed my power for 3 hours [13:56] oops [13:59] Coffee's ready for Kilos! [13:59] Maaz, gracias [13:59] Kilos: ¡de nada! === deegee__ is now known as drussell [14:39] what does a broken playstation 2 and my laptop have in commen ? [14:55] performance [14:56] common [14:56] oh "common" :D [14:56] nope not performance [14:56] hmm... [14:56] they both dont work [14:57] nope * cold [14:57] ?: [14:57] ok the answer is, they both got the same charging pin :) [14:58] ah you so lucky [14:58] now break that one too [14:58] the hot pin problem is gone after i fitted the playstations charger pin to the laptops charger [14:58] lol [14:59] the old pin had broken connections that caused the heat [14:59] its you okes that lie in bed with lappy on knees that break charger pins [15:00] nope built a special lappy desk, that it just a plank screwed onto a wooden table lol [15:01] then how did that pin break [15:01] its like peesp say things just broke but if you look in museums there are the same things that have never broken [15:01] peeps break things [15:02] i had this laptop about 4 years now and used it in charge alot , so the movements around i guess broken the pins inside [15:02] well im happy for you the prob is solved [15:03] yeah me too :) [15:21] my dad gets a new laptop every now and then from work, most of the newer things breaks after a few years (no rough handling and seldomly takes it out of the office) there's this one laptop though that does not want to give in http://www.cnet.com/products/hp-compaq-nx9010-series/ [15:23] it's the 3.06ghz edtion, does get very hot performing almost any task including opening the start menu [15:26] does your laptop use a 19V PSU ? [15:26] * JabberwockyA19 googles ps 2 psu [15:28] i also got a hp compaq , but with an AMD cpu [15:28] i think so [15:28] i just cut the cable from the playstation charger and cut the laptop charger cable and connected it like that [15:29] i will check it out! [15:29] need to run quickly, bbl [18:28] good night :) [18:43] 'lo peeps [18:43] lo peeps [18:44] oh, now that's lag :-o [18:51] hi ThatGraemeGuy [18:52] * superfly finally sat down at the PC [19:12] eish another power out [19:12] 5 hours no power today [19:33] hi Kilos [19:33] hi superfly [19:45] Kilos: where did the power go out? [19:45] hi spinza pta west [19:46] 3 times today [19:46] ouch [19:46] ya [19:51] have you played with a wandboard [19:52] it is a mission to get a ubuntu + graphics + all the other things running [19:52] nope what is that [19:52] armhf based hardware. bit like a pi only more powerful [19:52] its the other things i battle with [19:53] nope ive only used desktops [19:53] http://www.wandboard.org/ [19:53] thought if i could get ubuntu running on it, it should be a nice little lounge pc and home theatre system [19:54] i have something but it has a fan and is noisy [19:55] now i've had to compile kernels !! [19:55] and things i've never done before [19:55] lol [19:57] lol yeah but it's a bit annoying [19:58] you'd thought they'd have an image ready with a basic os that supports the hardware [19:59] the ubuntu image they supply is armel. runs some less than optimal emulation which is not even required as the hardware is present [20:00] thats all too involved for me' [20:14] good evening people [20:14] whow still very light outside [20:14] hi charl_ [20:14] sun setting around midnight now [20:14] hi Kilos [20:19] haha no man i was without power for 5 hours today so catching up [20:19] bah :( [20:20] are they shedding their load again ? [20:20] they say no but who knows [20:20] that level of technical incompetence is almost unimaginable in 2014 [20:21] its all the years of no expansion and less maintenance since 94 [20:21] now they playing catch up [20:22] sounds like they are getting even further behind [20:22] although i can remember aorund 2005/2006 i was in south africa and the power was horrible then too [20:22] we spent almost entire days with only a few hours of electricity [20:22] reminds me of when i was in kenya, the water only runs for a few hours a day [20:23] so every household or business has its own tank to catch up the water [20:23] and then pump it out again later when it's needed [20:23] unimaginable to people living in europe [21:10] hehe [21:10] life in africa [21:10] i go crash now [21:10] night all. sleep tight [21:11] superfly, bed time [21:11] me too [21:11] nn all