[04:19] <pitti> Good morning
[08:06] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[09:21] <Laney> blarg
[09:22] <seb128> Laney, good morning
[09:22] <Laney> i rebooted the server
[09:23] <Laney> that'll solve everything
[09:23] <seb128> how are the pimms?
[09:23] <Laney> hi seb128!
[09:23] <seb128> hey ;-)
[09:23] <Laney> pimms is usually served with lemonade which means I don't like it :(
[09:24]  * Laney is a fizzy drink hater
[09:24] <seb128> oh
[09:28] <seb128> Laney, darkxst, others: robert_ancell has a look at making u-s-d include the old xrandr code, https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/xrandr/+merge/224548 if you fancy having a look/commenting
[09:28] <Laney> oh
[09:28] <Laney> is this more selective?
[09:29] <seb128> more selective than?
[09:29] <Laney> forking the whole thing
[09:29] <seb128> yes
[09:29] <seb128> it's just the xrandr part of gnome-desktop
[09:29] <Laney> yay
[09:29] <seb128> the lib does other things
[09:29] <seb128> like keyboard, thumbnail, etc
[09:29] <Laney> I read some conversation the other day about forking it
[09:29] <seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-control-center/xrandr/+merge/224547
[09:29] <seb128> is the u-c-c side
[09:29] <seb128> well
[09:30] <seb128> the options are/were still to either do what robert did there
[09:30] <seb128> or to ship gnome-desktop3.8 as a different source and build u-s-d/u-c-c with it
[09:31] <Laney> you think this approach might not work?
[09:31] <seb128> well, he mp the changes, so he got it to work
[09:31] <Laney> seems nicer to me
[09:31] <Laney> anyway I'll try it out
[09:32] <seb128> yeah
[09:32] <seb128> it just looked quite some code/renaming
[09:32] <seb128> and I was unsure if some of those functions would call other gnome-desktop functions and rely on those to not change as well
[09:32] <seb128> but it doesn't seem to be the case
[09:32] <seb128> so +1 from me
[09:32] <seb128> if it turns out to really be an issue over time we can still revisit the approach then
[09:38] <darkxst> seb128, idle monitor is not included ?
[09:39] <seb128> darkxst, don't ask me, I didn't review it yet, robert_ancell said he would have a look and put those up for review this night
[09:39] <seb128> I'm just sharing the info
[09:39] <seb128> that would be a good question/comment to put on the merge request ;-)
[09:42] <Laney> darkxst: who uses that?
[09:44] <Laney> oh, u-s-d does, but it's not removed from gnome-desktop 3.12?
[09:45] <darkxst> Laney, it was moved from gnome-desktop 3.10 into mutter
[09:45] <Laney> what's http://sources.debian.net/src/gnome-desktop3/3.12.1-1/libgnome-desktop/gnome-idle-monitor.h ?
[09:46] <darkxst> Laney, the api is still in gnome-desktop, but changed to dbus calls into mutter
[09:47] <Laney> ah
[09:47] <Laney> then yes, please comment saying that
[09:48] <darkxst> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/commit/?id=545c774e967fa2f21f9b8ee1acbb50bffcee01d0
[09:51] <darkxst> Laney, ok, added a comment to MP
[09:51] <Laney> ty
[09:52] <seb128> thanks
[09:52] <Laney> we should bribe Trevinho into implementing this dbus service ;-)
[09:52] <darkxst> isnt the whole point of copying the legacy code to avoid a dbus service?
[09:58] <Laney> I think it was more a concern about whether breaking it out would be stable enough
[09:58] <Laney> but having both implement the same interface would be okay, the issue there is lack of development resources
[09:58] <Laney> so this is the path of least resistance
[09:58] <Laney> AIUI anyway
[10:01] <seb128> right, my main concern was to add a piece of software that is new/can have bugs without anyone having slots to maintain it
[10:01] <seb128> if the unity team is wanting to allocate resources to implement that interface and maintain it, that would be great
[10:01] <seb128> but that's not the case atm and we didn't want to block Ubuntu GNOME to get the new gnome-desktop until that happens
[10:05] <darkxst> seb128, I am happy for you guys to do it this way, but don't forget upstream are maintaining the new code (and the patches to de-couple it from mutter were pretty trivial)
[10:06] <seb128> we should maybe try that standalone daemon yeah...
[10:06] <seb128> I had concerns mostly for the LTS because we don't like to introduce new code/architectures just before a LTS
[10:07] <seb128> but we are still early in this cycle so we could try it out and see how it goes
[10:08] <Laney> seems like it would be nicer
[10:09] <Laney> darkxst: got a PPA or something?
[10:13] <Laney> pitti: what's up with these broken pipe adt failures I keep getting for chromium?
[10:13] <Laney> (also, am I really still TIL for that?)
[10:14] <pitti> Laney: it's a bug somewhere in the qemu runner, I already retried this
[10:14] <Laney> yeah
[10:14] <pitti> I already spent some two hours trying to reproduce and understand it, but so far no success :/
[10:14] <Laney> I've had it quite a few times though
[10:14] <Laney> okay :(
[10:15] <seb128> Laney, so you maintain chromium and libreoffice now?
[10:15]  * Laney is the master of trivial diffs
[10:15] <Laney> tkamppeter: have you seen that cups has a failing autopkgtest?
[10:16] <Laney> aha maybe -6 fixes this?
[10:16] <Laney> looks like it will
[10:17] <darkxst> Laney, https://github.com/darkxst/displayconfig
[10:17] <Laney> and one for mutter?
[10:18] <darkxst> that code is ripped from mutter
[10:18] <Laney> yes
[10:18] <darkxst> its the important bits that u-s-d/g-d need
[10:18] <Laney> presumably you need to turn it off there
[10:19] <seb128> if they plan to use the standalone service under gnome-shell, which I don't think they do?
[10:19] <seb128> that is supposed to be a replacement for !shell sessions
[10:20] <darkxst> right, https://github.com/darkxst/displayconfig/blob/master/src/main.c#L381
[10:20] <darkxst> just quites if shell is running
[10:20] <darkxst> quits
[10:20] <Laney> ah
[10:20] <Laney> you should rather check for the name on the bus
[10:20] <seb128> how is it activated?
[10:20] <Laney> dbus activation
[10:20] <seb128> what name?
[10:20] <Laney> in my "GNOME" !shell session I'd want this service too
[10:21] <seb128> unity steals the shell name on the bus
[10:21] <Laney> the name is org.gnome.Mutter.something
[10:21] <seb128> k, that we don't steal afaik
[10:21] <darkxst> Laney, no, in GNOME !gnome3 session you want u-s-d
[10:22] <Laney> I have XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=gnome
[10:22] <Laney> so you can't use this to differentiate between shell and not
[10:25] <darkxst> ok, but you can't use g-s-d anymore, if it even still works!
[10:25] <Laney> it works GREAT!
[10:26] <Laney> but yes I think the plan was to have me using usd
[10:26] <Laney> doesn't seem to have happened yet
[10:26] <darkxst> Laney, I have already dropped most of the ubuntu legacy hacks from g-s-d
[10:26] <Laney> the only problem I've noticed is that brightness isn't restored when I come back from suspend
[10:27] <darkxst> brightness api did change slightly, but think that was maybe in 3.10
[10:28] <Laney> maybe you want to look into the upstart jobs to see which sessions get g and which get u
[10:28] <Laney> seems they need tweaking
[10:31] <Laney> okay lemme play with this displayconfig stuff
[10:31] <Laney> I'll give you a patch that makes the exit condition be if the name is already on the bus
[10:32] <tkamppeter> Laney, have seen it, pitti told me, and OdyX has already fixed it in -6, which will auto-sync into Utopic soon.
[10:33] <Laney> yeah, saw
[10:33] <darkxst> Laney ok
[10:33] <Laney> darkxst: did you give it an inactivity timeout?
[10:34] <darkxst> the daemon? no
[10:34] <Laney> kay
[10:35] <darkxst> I don't think thats a particularly good idea, it needs to run the entire session anyway
[10:35] <Laney> is -s-d using this API the whole time?
[10:35] <seb128> why does it need to run the entire session?
[10:35] <darkxst> its pretty transparent to -s-d
[10:35] <seb128> it feels like that should only be needed when changes happen?
[10:36] <seb128> or is it tracking idle as well?
[10:36] <darkxst> seb128, idle monitor!
[10:36] <seb128> k
[10:36] <Laney> then it'll never timeout ;-)
[10:36] <darkxst> -s-d still calls into gnome-desktop
[10:37] <darkxst> but gnome-desktop uses dbus calls
[10:40] <Laney> did you clean up configure.ac?
[10:41] <Laney> i.e. does it still need the x libs?
[10:41] <Laney> oh yes I see it
[10:42] <darkxst> Laney, cleaned up most of the configure.ac
[10:42] <darkxst> its still making X calls, so mostly needs x libs!
[10:42] <Laney> yeah duh
[10:53] <darkxst> Laney, also see bug 1228765
[10:53] <darkxst> some patches are required on u- side but they are all just cherry-picks
[10:53] <Laney> what about that last comment?
[10:55] <darkxst> I never looked into that, however it was certainly working when I tested it months earlier
[10:57] <darkxst> my guess would be the deamon was not actually running
[10:57] <Laney> okay lemme try it
[10:57] <Laney> what cherry picks are these?
[10:59] <darkxst>  - git_xrandr_adapt_to_new_displayconfig_api.patch:
[10:59] <darkxst>     Adapt to new display config d-bus api used by gnome-desktop 3.10
[10:59] <darkxst>   - fix-cursor-gnomedesktop-api.patch:
[10:59] <darkxst>     minor api fix
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git-power-update-backlight-api.patch: update gnome-desktop backlight
[10:59] <darkxst>     api
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git_power_dont_look_for_screens_no_lid.patch
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git-gnomerr-output-is-laptop-change.patch
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git_wacom_remove_deprecated_call.patch
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git_wacom_gnomerr-api-changes.patch
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git_xrandr_remove_applyConfiguration_dbus.patch
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git-power-simplify-support-external-monitor.patch
[10:59] <darkxst>   - git_color_adapt_to_gnomeRR_api.patch
[11:00] <darkxst> or I should just say look at the braches attached to that bug!
[11:00] <Laney> you can just apply them directly
[11:00] <darkxst> Laney, they are applied directly on the u- branches there
[11:01] <Laney> ok
[11:01] <darkxst> well they should be
[11:07] <seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/unity-settings-daemon/gnome-desktop-3.10/+merge/208911 might still apply without change
[11:07] <Laney> mostly
[11:07] <Laney> there's a conflict
[11:12] <darkxst> Laney, hmm, no apparently I can't read, dialog is provided by gnome-shell, so that bit will need reverted to use g-s-d
[11:13] <darkxst> (according to the bug comment atleast)
[11:45] <Laney> darkxst: no cursor, forgot my resolution :)
[11:46] <darkxst> Laney, is it actually running?
[11:46] <Laney> after I opened the panel (presumably activating the service) they were restored
[11:46] <darkxst> no cursor means, no idle monitor
[11:46] <Laney> but my monitors are the wrong way around
[11:47] <darkxst> it uses the same monitors.xml
[11:47] <Laney> no dialog on apply
[11:47] <Laney> got a g-c-c crash
[11:47] <Laney> u-c-c
[11:49]  * Laney gets a trace
[12:09] <Laney> darkxst: comments for you ;-)
[12:14] <darkxst> Laney, odd, dbus activation should fire on login
[12:16] <Laney> it's probably easier if you/jackson just try it at this point
[12:17] <darkxst> Laney, yes I will try it, but won't be until the weekend, possible Jackson messed up the merges
[12:17] <Laney> or me, there was a conflict
[12:18] <Laney> or something changed since the branch was proposed and the merge is borked now
[12:18] <Laney> (i.e. it needs rebasing)
[12:18] <Laney> or 3.12 is bad and 3.10 would have worked
[12:18] <darkxst> havent tested with 3.12
[12:18] <Laney> the dialog thing just needs doing though
[12:19] <darkxst> yes I will look at that dialog
[12:19] <Laney> anyway there we go ;-)
[12:22] <darkxst> Laney, I never saw anything like your crash in testing, probably 3.12 related
[12:22] <darkxst> I will run through and get it all working over the weekend
[12:23] <Laney> it could be something that expects the service to be running
[12:23] <Laney> I just saw it in the background, don't know when it happened
[12:23] <Laney> but cool, thanks
[12:23]  * Laney goes back to good old utopic for now :P
[12:24] <darkxst> Laney, well atleast assuming you guys want to use it
[12:25]  * Laney is pro
[12:25] <Laney> sounded like seb was too
[12:25] <Laney> so thanks for working on it
[12:33] <darkxst> Laney, ok, I won't have time to polish it right up, but I will rebase my work and fix any obvious problems
[14:18] <lool> bregma: hey!
[14:19] <lool> bregma: we discussed the UI scaling stuff in Malta; I've been using a scaling factor since (previously I Was just xrandr-ing to a lesser resolution and leaving the Ubuntu defaults alone)
[14:20] <lool> bregma: It seems to me as if the scaling factor is applied over and over again on each boot; it feels like the fonts are getting bigger over time; now it's to the point I had to reduce the scaling factor under 1 and I get a mix of decent fonts and small UI elements; could it be that something is accumulating the factor somewhere?
[14:20] <lool> bregma: is this known and/or reproducible for you?
[14:38] <bregma> lool, yes, it's known and I get it all the time, it's caused by a race condition somewhere and we're trying to track it down
[15:04] <Laney> TheMuso: someone in another channel just linked http://askubuntu.com/questions/278693/how-do-i-stop-orca-screen-reader which notes that it's quite hard to switch orca off if you start it from the desktop file
[15:05] <Laney> looks like most things look for the screen-reader-enabled gsettings key which isn't set on if you start it manually
[15:09] <Laney> so you have to toggle it on and off to make orca quit (that's all it looks for to shutdown afaics)
[16:56] <Laney> pitti: have you thought about testing reverse-build-depends or reverse-test-depends on upload?
[16:56] <Laney> I just saw that pep8 made some stuff fail but they're generally not runtime dependencies
[16:57] <Laney> I guess test rather than build
[16:57] <Laney> or build for build-needed maybe
[17:06]  * didrocks waves good evening
[17:06] <didrocks> I have to buy beers for seb128
[17:06] <didrocks> question of requirements :)
[17:06] <Laney> haha
[17:07] <Laney> Get him on the hard stuff
[17:07] <didrocks> well, he's not really German for that
[17:07] <didrocks> he only likes light one
[17:07] <didrocks> it's a shame!
[17:07]  * didrocks get out the sake
[17:07] <didrocks> gets*
[17:08] <didrocks> so, *maybe* see you tomorrow after this evening ;)
[17:08]  * didrocks really waves good evening now
[17:08] <Laney> best of luck!
[17:08] <Laney> man, that guy's fast
[22:07] <TheMuso`> Laney: Thats purely upstream...
[22:09] <TheMuso`> Laney: I.e thatts a decision that was made upstream. Given the way Orca is supposed to be activated these days, I wonder if it makes sense to drop /usr/share/applications/orca.desktop.