| skellat | Right now I'm just writing up the Dashboard for LoCo Council so we can have an idea of where things stand | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| belkinsa | On the status of the USA LoCo's or something else? | 00:00 |
| skellat | Other things | 00:01 |
| skellat | We've got 9 Re-/Verification matters open, 1 Forced Change of Contact open, and 4 Special Situations | 00:02 |
| belkinsa | Ah, I see. | 00:02 |
| skellat | 4 more days left for the open vote on the Forced Change of Contact, timing is fluid for the rest | 00:04 |
| belkinsa | Which LoCo is for, if I can ask that? | 00:05 |
| skellat | Not yet | 00:06 |
| skellat | Once the vote is over & we announce it | 00:06 |
| belkinsa | I see. | 00:07 |
| jrgifford | (random, but semi related) i wish that governing bodies were a little more transparent during the discussion | 00:09 |
| jrgifford | cleveland heights seems to never disagree on anything. | 00:09 |
| jrgifford | (city council) | 00:09 |
| belkinsa | I really think we need to have a country based LoCo with regions as the subteams rather than states. | 00:10 |
| jrgifford | Propose that | 00:10 |
| jrgifford | formally. | 00:10 |
| jrgifford | with a list of advantages, disadvantages, etc | 00:10 |
| skellat | belkinsa: And right now Community Council disagrees with that | 00:10 |
| belkinsa | Sigh, we need numbers and stats! And what jrgifford said. | 00:10 |
| skellat | And among the several competing contradictory e-mails I've tried to read...I'm still at a loss as to what they want | 00:10 |
| jrgifford | it's a complex issue, and one that can't just be said "Do this!" | 00:11 |
| jrgifford | and as the community grows/compacts/migrates, needs change | 00:11 |
| belkinsa | I agree, maybe we can brainstorm now? | 00:11 |
| skellat | By all means | 00:11 |
| jrgifford | i'm only on for another minute. just popped on to say hi and random things. but sure, i'll join in when i can. | 00:12 |
| belkinsa | It's cool. | 00:12 |
| * belkinsa digs for that e-mail | 00:12 | |
| belkinsa | Okay, I guess one advantage is that you can have a larger council when you have regions. Another is that ReLoCo's and UH's still will exist...er, but I guess is the question of how to list them along with the leader of the ReLoCo and how define that area for the ReLoCo. | 00:15 |
| skellat | Perhaps | 00:20 |
| skellat | Michael Hall's been the voice on Community Council complaining that the Community Budget is sitting at $40,000 or so and that he is claiming that there are not enough people to put it to use. | 00:21 |
| skellat | His thinking in his last message contradicted itself at one point which made me have to re-read his message a few times | 00:21 |
| skellat | The issues raised by Community Council so far included: | 00:22 |
| skellat | 1. You're doing an administrative task but we don't want you to seem administrative or bureaucratic | 00:22 |
| skellat | 2. It is about people, not numbers | 00:22 |
| skellat | 3. Don't be constrained by your own rules and break them when you feel it necessary | 00:22 |
| skellat | 4. Be more open and transparent | 00:22 |
| skellat | 5. Nobody really knows what should be the right size for a team but don't get hung up on borders...let it be a LoCo Council judgment call | 00:23 |
| skellat | 6. Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using? | 00:24 |
| skellat | 7. Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing? | 00:24 |
| skellat | That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives | 00:25 |
| belkinsa | Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted. | 00:26 |
| belkinsa | How are the larger country's LoCo's doing anyways? And how they deal with ReLoCo's and that stuff? | 00:27 |
| skellat | Brazil is the gold standard for handling that | 00:27 |
| belkinsa | Want to tell me how they do it? | 00:28 |
| skellat | Everybody is a member of a state team and is thereby a member of the country team since the state teams are the country team's members | 00:29 |
| belkinsa | So states are the subteams of Brazil. | 00:30 |
| belkinsa | Do they have a council? | 00:30 |
| skellat | Yes | 00:30 |
| skellat | See: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-br/+members?active_batch=75&active_memo=75&active_start=75 | 00:30 |
| jenni | [ Members : “Ubuntu Brasil” team ] - https://j.mp/1sfXjas | 00:31 |
| belkinsa | Thansk. | 00:31 |
| belkinsa | I was thinking of doing states as subteams at first but I changed my mind to regions. Maybe states are better choice. | 00:33 |
| skellat | How do people arrange themselves naturally? Therein lay the conundrum. Have you ever looked at the State of Ohio broken down into Census Statistical Areas? | 00:38 |
| skellat | From that perspective, there in no single Ohio | 00:38 |
| belkinsa | Good point. | 00:40 |
| belkinsa | Then regions are better. | 00:40 |
| belkinsa | s/./> | 00:40 |
| jenni | belkinsa meant to say: Then regions are better> | 00:40 |
| belkinsa | s/>/? | 00:41 |
| skellat | Perhaps | 00:41 |
| skellat | I'm trying to find a Census map for Ohio to use as an example | 00:41 |
| belkinsa | I figured that you are looking. | 00:42 |
| skellat | This works: http://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/maps/statecbsa.html | 00:43 |
| jenni | [ State-based Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas Maps - Geography - U.S. Census Bureau ] - https://j.mp/1sfZKKa | 00:43 |
| belkinsa | I got your point but I think that wouldn't really change the view of using states as subteams of the USA LoCo. | 00:46 |
| skellat | Did you look at how many regions Ohio is broken into? | 00:47 |
| skellat | The idea of the statistical areas are that the Census Bureau uses them for grouping similar populations. Having a similar urban nexus, connected telecommunications, some social homogeneity, roadworks, and more. Notice how Ashtabula stands alone as its own region? | 00:48 |
| belkinsa | Yeah, I see. | 00:49 |
| belkinsa | Aren't stats not important though in this case for you guys? | 00:50 |
| jrgifford | only when we aren't spending their money fast enough | 00:51 |
| jrgifford | ;p | 00:51 |
| belkinsa | Well, it seems that the budget is being uses that much... | 00:51 |
| belkinsa | [20:24] <skellat> 7. Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing? | 00:52 |
| belkinsa | [20:25] <skellat> That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives | 00:52 |
| belkinsa | [20:26] <belkinsa> Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted. | 00:52 |
| belkinsa | [20:27] | 00:52 |
| belkinsa | Er | 00:52 |
| belkinsa | ] <skellat> 6. Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using? | 00:52 |
| belkinsa | Stupid mouse. | 00:52 |
| skellat | I've got it written up that Community Budget isn't a germane issue to LoCo Council. There are as of this moment only 763 members in ~ubuntumembers who can access the Community Budget. Nothing says you have to be part of ~ubuntumembers to be a community leader (two Verified communities in fact don't have such) and I don't want to impose such a requirement. | 00:53 |
| belkinsa | Okay. | 00:54 |
| jrgifford | (sorry, my comment was snide.) | 00:54 |
| belkinsa | It's cool. | 00:54 |
| skellat | "We can encourage leaders to move towards joining ~ubuntumembers but we cannot force anyone. Making membership in ~ubuntumembers a requirement to lead a community would be counterproductive when we're trying to encourage growth. Bringing the Community Budget into this discussion is a matter that is at best not germane to LoCo Council directly. " | 00:59 |
| skellat | That's part of what I've got written. | 01:00 |
| skellat | Also: "There are separate calls to be open and transparent while also not seeming administrative and bureaucratic. A certain amount of tension exists between those separate calls that is hard to overcome. I can only note that we do not reflect any of the more overly bureaucratic procedures from Debian but also due try to ensure that there is a common rule that has generally expected outcomes." (continues) | 01:00 |
| skellat | "I recognize the call to be able to go beyond and break rules but the way that that is put slides too easily towards making decisions by mere whimsy. " | 01:00 |
| skellat | That should have been a "do" above that I should have typed while I was likely thinking "due process" | 01:01 |
| * belkinsa really needs to sleep on this | 01:03 | |
| * belkinsa her brain is fried | 01:03 | |
| belkinsa | Slaapwel, everyone. | 01:05 |
| skellat | Goodnight comrade | 01:11 |
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