[00:00] <skellat> Right now I'm just writing up the Dashboard for LoCo Council so we can have an idea of where things stand
[00:00] <belkinsa> On the status of the USA LoCo's or something else?
[00:01] <skellat> Other things
[00:02] <skellat> We've got 9 Re-/Verification matters open, 1 Forced Change of Contact open, and 4 Special Situations
[00:02] <belkinsa> Ah, I see.
[00:04] <skellat> 4 more days left for the open vote on the Forced Change of Contact, timing is fluid for the rest
[00:05] <belkinsa> Which LoCo is for, if I can ask that?
[00:06] <skellat> Not yet
[00:06] <skellat> Once the vote is over & we announce it
[00:07] <belkinsa> I see.
[00:09] <jrgifford> (random, but semi related) i wish that governing bodies were a little more transparent during the discussion
[00:09] <jrgifford> cleveland heights seems to never disagree on anything.
[00:09] <jrgifford> (city council)
[00:10] <belkinsa> I really think we need to have a country based LoCo with regions as the subteams rather than states.
[00:10] <jrgifford> Propose that
[00:10] <jrgifford> formally.
[00:10] <jrgifford> with a list of advantages, disadvantages, etc
[00:10] <skellat> belkinsa: And right now Community Council disagrees with that
[00:10] <belkinsa> Sigh, we need numbers and stats!  And what jrgifford said.
[00:10] <skellat> And among the several competing contradictory e-mails I've tried to read...I'm still at a loss as to what they want
[00:11] <jrgifford> it's a complex issue, and one that can't just be said "Do this!"
[00:11] <jrgifford> and as the community grows/compacts/migrates, needs change
[00:11] <belkinsa> I agree, maybe we can brainstorm now?
[00:11] <skellat> By all means
[00:12] <jrgifford> i'm only on for another minute. just popped on to say hi and random things. but sure, i'll join in when i can.
[00:12] <belkinsa> It's cool.
[00:12]  * belkinsa digs for that e-mail
[00:15] <belkinsa> Okay, I guess one advantage is that you can have a larger council when you have regions.  Another is that ReLoCo's and UH's still will exist...er, but I guess is the question of how to list them along with the leader of the ReLoCo and how define that area for the ReLoCo.
[00:20] <skellat> Perhaps
[00:21] <skellat> Michael Hall's been the voice on Community Council complaining that the Community Budget is sitting at $40,000 or so and that he is claiming that there are not enough people to put it to use.
[00:21] <skellat> His thinking in his last message contradicted itself at one point which made me have to re-read his message a few times
[00:22] <skellat> The issues raised by Community Council so far included:
[00:22] <skellat> 1.  You're doing an administrative task but we don't want you to seem administrative or bureaucratic
[00:22] <skellat> 2.  It is about people, not numbers
[00:22] <skellat> 3.  Don't be constrained by your own rules and break them when you feel it necessary
[00:22] <skellat> 4.  Be more open and transparent
[00:23] <skellat> 5. Nobody really knows what should be the right size for a team but don't get hung up on borders...let it be a LoCo Council judgment call
[00:24] <skellat> 6.  Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using?
[00:24] <skellat> 7.  Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing?
[00:25] <skellat> That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives
[00:26] <belkinsa> Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted.
[00:27] <belkinsa> How are the larger country's LoCo's doing anyways?  And how they deal with ReLoCo's and that stuff?
[00:27] <skellat> Brazil is the gold standard for handling that
[00:28] <belkinsa> Want to tell me how they do it?
[00:29] <skellat> Everybody is a member of a state team and is thereby a member of the country team since the state teams are the country team's members
[00:30] <belkinsa> So states are the subteams of Brazil.
[00:30] <belkinsa> Do they have a council?
[00:30] <skellat> Yes
[00:30] <skellat> See: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-br/+members?active_batch=75&active_memo=75&active_start=75
[00:31] <jenni> [ Members : “Ubuntu Brasil” team ] - https://j.mp/1sfXjas
[00:31] <belkinsa> Thansk.
[00:33] <belkinsa> I was thinking of doing states as subteams at first but I changed my mind to regions.  Maybe states are better choice.
[00:38] <skellat> How do people arrange themselves naturally?  Therein lay the conundrum.  Have you ever looked at the State of Ohio broken down into Census Statistical Areas?
[00:38] <skellat> From that perspective, there in no single Ohio
[00:40] <belkinsa> Good point.
[00:40] <belkinsa> Then regions are better.
[00:40] <belkinsa> s/./>
[00:40] <jenni> belkinsa meant to say: Then regions are better>
[00:41] <belkinsa> s/>/?
[00:41] <skellat> Perhaps
[00:41] <skellat> I'm trying to find a Census map for Ohio to use as an example
[00:42] <belkinsa> I figured that you are looking.
[00:43] <skellat> This works: http://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/maps/statecbsa.html
[00:43] <jenni> [ State-based Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas Maps - Geography - U.S. Census Bureau ] - https://j.mp/1sfZKKa
[00:46] <belkinsa> I got your point but I think that wouldn't really change the view of using states as subteams of the USA LoCo.
[00:47] <skellat> Did you look at how many regions Ohio is broken into?
[00:48] <skellat> The idea of the statistical areas are that the Census Bureau uses them for grouping similar populations.  Having a similar urban nexus, connected telecommunications, some social homogeneity, roadworks, and more.  Notice how Ashtabula stands alone as its own region?
[00:49] <belkinsa> Yeah, I see.
[00:50] <belkinsa> Aren't stats not important though in this case for you guys?
[00:51] <jrgifford> only when we aren't spending their money fast enough
[00:51] <jrgifford> ;p
[00:51] <belkinsa> Well, it seems that the budget is being uses that much...
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:24] <skellat> 7.  Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing?
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:25] <skellat> That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:26] <belkinsa> Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted.
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:27]
[00:52] <belkinsa> Er
[00:52] <belkinsa> ] <skellat> 6.  Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using?
[00:52] <belkinsa> Stupid mouse.
[00:53] <skellat> I've got it written up that Community Budget isn't a germane issue to LoCo Council.  There are as of this moment only 763 members in ~ubuntumembers who can access the Community Budget.  Nothing says you have to be part of ~ubuntumembers to be a community leader (two Verified communities in fact don't have such) and I don't want to impose such a requirement.
[00:54] <belkinsa> Okay.
[00:54] <jrgifford> (sorry, my comment was snide.)
[00:54] <belkinsa> It's cool.
[00:59] <skellat> "We can encourage leaders to move towards joining ~ubuntumembers but we cannot force anyone.  Making membership in ~ubuntumembers a requirement to lead a community would be counterproductive when we're trying to encourage growth.  Bringing the Community Budget into this discussion is a matter that is at best not germane to LoCo Council directly. "
[01:00] <skellat> That's part of what I've got written.
[01:00] <skellat> Also: "There are separate calls to be open and transparent while also not seeming administrative and bureaucratic.  A certain amount of tension exists between those separate calls that is hard to overcome.  I can only note that we do not reflect any of the more overly bureaucratic procedures from Debian but also due try to ensure that there is a common rule that has generally expected outcomes." (continues)
[01:00] <skellat> "I recognize the call to be able to go beyond and break rules but the way that that is put slides too easily towards making decisions by mere whimsy. "
[01:01] <skellat> That should have been a "do" above that I should have typed while I was likely thinking "due process"
[01:03]  * belkinsa really needs to sleep on this
[01:03]  * belkinsa her brain is fried
[01:05] <belkinsa> Slaapwel, everyone.
[01:11] <skellat> Goodnight comrade