[00:00] Right now I'm just writing up the Dashboard for LoCo Council so we can have an idea of where things stand [00:00] On the status of the USA LoCo's or something else? [00:01] Other things [00:02] We've got 9 Re-/Verification matters open, 1 Forced Change of Contact open, and 4 Special Situations [00:02] Ah, I see. [00:04] 4 more days left for the open vote on the Forced Change of Contact, timing is fluid for the rest [00:05] Which LoCo is for, if I can ask that? [00:06] Not yet [00:06] Once the vote is over & we announce it [00:07] I see. [00:09] (random, but semi related) i wish that governing bodies were a little more transparent during the discussion [00:09] cleveland heights seems to never disagree on anything. [00:09] (city council) [00:10] I really think we need to have a country based LoCo with regions as the subteams rather than states. [00:10] Propose that [00:10] formally. [00:10] with a list of advantages, disadvantages, etc [00:10] belkinsa: And right now Community Council disagrees with that [00:10] Sigh, we need numbers and stats! And what jrgifford said. [00:10] And among the several competing contradictory e-mails I've tried to read...I'm still at a loss as to what they want [00:11] it's a complex issue, and one that can't just be said "Do this!" [00:11] and as the community grows/compacts/migrates, needs change [00:11] I agree, maybe we can brainstorm now? [00:11] By all means [00:12] i'm only on for another minute. just popped on to say hi and random things. but sure, i'll join in when i can. [00:12] It's cool. [00:12] * belkinsa digs for that e-mail [00:15] Okay, I guess one advantage is that you can have a larger council when you have regions. Another is that ReLoCo's and UH's still will exist...er, but I guess is the question of how to list them along with the leader of the ReLoCo and how define that area for the ReLoCo. [00:20] Perhaps [00:21] Michael Hall's been the voice on Community Council complaining that the Community Budget is sitting at $40,000 or so and that he is claiming that there are not enough people to put it to use. [00:21] His thinking in his last message contradicted itself at one point which made me have to re-read his message a few times [00:22] The issues raised by Community Council so far included: [00:22] 1. You're doing an administrative task but we don't want you to seem administrative or bureaucratic [00:22] 2. It is about people, not numbers [00:22] 3. Don't be constrained by your own rules and break them when you feel it necessary [00:22] 4. Be more open and transparent [00:23] 5. Nobody really knows what should be the right size for a team but don't get hung up on borders...let it be a LoCo Council judgment call [00:24] 6. Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using? [00:24] 7. Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing? [00:25] That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives [00:26] Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted. [00:27] How are the larger country's LoCo's doing anyways? And how they deal with ReLoCo's and that stuff? [00:27] Brazil is the gold standard for handling that [00:28] Want to tell me how they do it? [00:29] Everybody is a member of a state team and is thereby a member of the country team since the state teams are the country team's members [00:30] So states are the subteams of Brazil. [00:30] Do they have a council? [00:30] Yes [00:30] See: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-br/+members?active_batch=75&active_memo=75&active_start=75 [00:31] [ Members : “Ubuntu Brasil” team ] - https://j.mp/1sfXjas [00:31] Thansk. [00:33] I was thinking of doing states as subteams at first but I changed my mind to regions. Maybe states are better choice. [00:38] How do people arrange themselves naturally? Therein lay the conundrum. Have you ever looked at the State of Ohio broken down into Census Statistical Areas? [00:38] From that perspective, there in no single Ohio [00:40] Good point. [00:40] Then regions are better. [00:40] s/./> [00:40] belkinsa meant to say: Then regions are better> [00:41] s/>/? [00:41] Perhaps [00:41] I'm trying to find a Census map for Ohio to use as an example [00:42] I figured that you are looking. [00:43] This works: http://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/maps/statecbsa.html [00:43] [ State-based Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas Maps - Geography - U.S. Census Bureau ] - https://j.mp/1sfZKKa [00:46] I got your point but I think that wouldn't really change the view of using states as subteams of the USA LoCo. [00:47] Did you look at how many regions Ohio is broken into? [00:48] The idea of the statistical areas are that the Census Bureau uses them for grouping similar populations. Having a similar urban nexus, connected telecommunications, some social homogeneity, roadworks, and more. Notice how Ashtabula stands alone as its own region? [00:49] Yeah, I see. [00:50] Aren't stats not important though in this case for you guys? [00:51] only when we aren't spending their money fast enough [00:51] ;p [00:51] Well, it seems that the budget is being uses that much... [00:52] [20:24] <skellat> 7. Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing? [00:52] [20:25] <skellat> That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives [00:52] [20:26] <belkinsa> Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted. [00:52] [20:27] [00:52] Er [00:52] ] 6. Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using? [00:52] Stupid mouse. [00:53] I've got it written up that Community Budget isn't a germane issue to LoCo Council. There are as of this moment only 763 members in ~ubuntumembers who can access the Community Budget. Nothing says you have to be part of ~ubuntumembers to be a community leader (two Verified communities in fact don't have such) and I don't want to impose such a requirement. [00:54] Okay. [00:54] (sorry, my comment was snide.) [00:54] It's cool. [00:59] "We can encourage leaders to move towards joining ~ubuntumembers but we cannot force anyone. Making membership in ~ubuntumembers a requirement to lead a community would be counterproductive when we're trying to encourage growth. Bringing the Community Budget into this discussion is a matter that is at best not germane to LoCo Council directly. " [01:00] That's part of what I've got written. [01:00] Also: "There are separate calls to be open and transparent while also not seeming administrative and bureaucratic. A certain amount of tension exists between those separate calls that is hard to overcome. I can only note that we do not reflect any of the more overly bureaucratic procedures from Debian but also due try to ensure that there is a common rule that has generally expected outcomes." (continues) [01:00] "I recognize the call to be able to go beyond and break rules but the way that that is put slides too easily towards making decisions by mere whimsy. " [01:01] That should have been a "do" above that I should have typed while I was likely thinking "due process" [01:03] * belkinsa really needs to sleep on this [01:03] * belkinsa her brain is fried [01:05] Slaapwel, everyone. [01:11] Goodnight comrade