[01:39] <diddledan> I managed to get it booted and operational.. sort of - it's hideously unresponsive but the processor is idle according to top
[01:47] <popey> diddledan: what device is it?
[01:47] <diddledan> galaxy nexus
[01:47] <diddledan> aka maguro/tuna
[02:05] <popey> oh!
[02:05] <popey> speak to ogra_ during european work day
[02:07] <diddledan> all I can see which might slow things down is unity is using 30% of 700MB ram
[02:11] <diddledan> the backlight responds instantly to touch, by brightening, but the ui doesn't react until many seconds later
[02:13] <diddledan> I lie - _some_ ui responds just as readily as the backlight, such as the taskbar, but the apps themselves are in molasses
[02:16] <ali1234> i found they go faster after they've been loaded up for a while
[02:17] <diddledan> I'm thinking maybe the apparmor is too old - there's a message in the logs about requiring a compatibility patch
[02:19] <diddledan> apparmor isn't running atm
[02:54] <mapp> oops i was logged into shellinabox and messing with openswan made some iptables rules
[02:54] <mapp> and yep couldnt access my machine anymore
[02:54] <mapp> :D
[04:47]  * p42phone waits for MAN-DUS flight
[05:34] <mapp> p42phone
[05:34] <mapp> whee u going
[05:34] <mapp> dusseldorf?
[05:34] <p42phone> Bonn via dusseldorf
[05:35] <mapp> aha cool
[05:35] <mapp> :D
[05:35] <mapp> holiday?7
[05:35] <p42phone> No, work
[05:35] <mapp> ah
[05:35] <mapp> important job
[05:35] <mapp> :D
[05:36] <p42phone> Not vastly.  Just a meeting of an EU funded dev project
[05:36] <mapp> aha
[05:37] <mapp> i just got in from casino
[05:37] <mapp> genting is so good again tonight..got 3 free pints
[05:37] <mapp> manager got me 2 and bar staff got me a beer ..and my mate so 6 free
[05:37] <mapp> benefits of being a regular;p
[05:44] <MooDoo> hello all
[05:46] <mapp> hey MooDoo
[05:46] <mapp> sup dude
[05:47] <p42phone> Right, better switch you off, seated in this thing with propellers
[05:49] <MooDoo> mapp: cold and hayfever, I suck
[05:49] <mapp> cya p42phone have a safe flight
[05:49] <mapp> ah suck why
[06:01] <MooDoo> mapp: coz I just can't do anything at the moment, was in bed from 8pm fri/sat/sun
[06:03] <mapp> whats wrong?74
[06:04] <MooDoo> mapp: cold and hayfever :) lol
[06:04] <MooDoo> it's a pain
[06:05] <mapp> :(
[06:05] <mapp> take benadryl
[06:06] <MooDoo> yeah I've taken stuff :)
[06:09] <Myrtti> MooDoo: I gave up and went for the pharmacy for help and they gave me wonderful medicine that actually works, unlike cetirizin which has worked beautifully for ten years
[06:10] <MooDoo> Myrtti: yes I'm goina at lunch
[06:10] <Myrtti> I should've gone two weeks earlier
[06:42] <Myrtti> oh man, first firebug sighting on my laptop of this summer... god I do hope they don't get into the screen
[06:42] <MartijnVdS> just.. uninstall the plugin if you don't want it?
[06:43] <MooDoo> Myrtti: you mean the insect right?
[06:43] <Myrtti> yeah.
[06:44] <Myrtti> I've had them inside the screen panel in the past, they went in and died and left light glitches on the screen
[06:49] <mapp> argh
[06:49] <mapp> this pesky iptables
[06:49] <mapp> 1 wrong rule and its a chore
[06:50] <Myrtti> thrips, whatever
[06:52] <mapp> thrips?
[06:58] <Myrtti> little flying bugs that are coming in through the open windows and can get into electronics
[07:21] <ujjain> Where would one place an ad for a handyman? The one I mailed wanted £145 for half an hour of work, while he lives 5 minutes from my house.
[07:23] <MooDoo> ujjain: local newspaper, advert in your local newsagent/postoffice?
[07:23] <ujjain> ah yeah, but that's not a free internet site.
[07:23] <MooDoo> craigslist?
[07:26] <Myrtti> we get local news and ads leaflet in the mail once a month
[07:56] <dwatkins> ujjain: have you applied to the local Homeforce equivalent? There appear to be companies which offer a general number for home repair stuff and they keep a list of people such as yourself
[07:56] <dwatkins> http://www.edinburgh-homeforce.co.uk/generalinformation.aspx
[07:57] <ujjain> thanks MooDoo and dwatkins , good ideas
[08:08] <bashrc> good moaning
[08:09] <MooDoo> morning
[08:23] <foobarry> ujjain: checkatrade
[08:27] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:32] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[08:33] <foobarry> druggies chasing each other on bikes through london today. what's new?
[08:35] <davmor2> foobarry: the bikes they nicked?
[08:36] <diddledan> ok, the wireless comms are dead on my ubuntu phone. rfkilld just immediately returns with exit code 1
[08:37] <foobarry> davmor2: tour de france, dunno if they nicked em
[08:46] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Chocolate Day! :-D
[08:46] <diddledan> I approve of this message
[08:46] <ujjain> http://london.en.craigslist.co.uk/lab/ http://london.en.craigslist.co.uk/lbs/ - is me placing a non-sex related ad like "help me place curtains" something inapproriate on craigslist?
[08:56] <DJones> Hmmh, listening to Terry Pratchett's "Reaper Man", I wonder whether justyo.co are aware of this definition "It's not a yo what, it's just a yo', said the Senior Wrangler, behind him. Its a general street greeting and affirmative with convivial military ingroup and masculine bonding-ritual overtones.
[09:04] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:04] <JamesTait> Good morning Mr brobostigon, good morning all.
[09:05] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[09:56] <MooDoo> moring brobostigon JamesTait :)
[10:02] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:02] <JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
[10:24] <MooDoo> hello JamesTait how are you this fine day?
[10:26] <JamesTait> MooDoo, quite tired, actually.  But fit and healthy otherwise.  You?
[10:26] <MooDoo> JamesTait: cold and hayfever, bad horrible combination
[10:32] <Myrtti> I'd not wish that for my worst enemy
[10:33] <JamesTait> MooDoo, yuck! :(
[11:00] <MooDoo> no community manager job on the canonical careeers page, does that mean they have found on now?
[11:01] <popey> yes
[11:01] <MooDoo> I'll wait for the announcement then I'm sure it'll come some
[11:01] <MooDoo> day
[11:02] <popey> yeah
[11:02] <MooDoo> popey: is it you :p
[11:02] <popey> I didn't apply, so almost certainly not.
[11:03] <MooDoo> oh ok
[11:03] <MooDoo> supprised
[11:04] <MooDoo> surprised even lol
[11:06] <foobarry> RMS got it
[11:07] <foobarry> wondered why the tune i was listening to was so awesome. turned out it was 2 tracks at once - youtbe+clementine
[12:01] <dwatkins> foobarry: have you seen youtube doubler?
[12:01] <dwatkins> or rather 'heared'
[12:06] <MooDoo> http://www.youtubedoubler.com/ :)
[12:09] <dwatkins> my favourite is the one with whalesong over techno.
[12:09] <dwatkins> my favourite favourite
[12:56] <daniel_> 3
[12:58] <foobarry> 4
[12:58] <nigelb> 5
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> 4
[13:05] <ujjain> http://www.gratistheorie.nl/templates/gratistheorie/images_v1/auto/kruispunt3_1.jpg < in the UK, who would have right of way? the walking man or the car? because I regularly almost get killed when some car is trying to make a turn into me from behind when I'm crossing the street.
[13:05] <popey> the walking man
[13:05] <popey> by law
[13:05] <popey> but drivers often ignore this
[13:06] <foobarry> try walking in italy
[13:06] <foobarry> you will die several times a day
[13:06] <popey> "watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way"
[13:06] <popey> https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/road-junctions-170-to-183
[13:07] <foobarry> it helps to look first though, many people don't look
[13:07] <foobarry> popey: you are talking about people crossing
[13:08] <popey> thats what the picture shows
[13:08] <popey> a person crossing
[13:08] <Azelphur> popey: haha, that seems obvious thinking about it
[13:08] <Azelphur> as the alternative would be "watch out for pedestrians crossing the road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they don't have priority, so run them down"
[13:08] <foobarry> it shows a right hand drive car and a strange sign
[13:08] <foobarry> and a man on the pavement
[13:08] <popey> its from .nl
[13:08] <popey> he asked "in the uk"
[13:08] <popey> i.e. whats the equivalent
[13:09] <foobarry> the highway code says crossing though
[13:09] <foobarry> what if he is waiting to cross
[13:09] <popey> yes, which I clearly pasted above
[13:09] <popey> the picture doesn't show the car turning
[13:09] <popey> it shows it about to turn
[13:09] <popey> and the guy about to cross
[13:09] <foobarry> yeah
[13:09] <popey> anyway, the link is clear
[13:10] <foobarry> the link is clear but the pciture is open to interpretation
[13:10] <mapp> absolutely outrageous
[13:10] <mapp> i make a withdrawl and they want ID/bank statements etc
[13:10] <mapp> yet happy to take money off my card hundreds of times
[13:11] <ujjain> ah ok, thanks
[13:11] <popey> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wifiex is quite hilarious
[13:12] <awilkins> How the hell did they even get $2,093 ????
[13:12] <foobarry> charge the device with internet?
[13:13] <ujjain> https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/static/hc/hc_rule_170_give_way_to_pedestrians_who_have_started_to_cross.jpg < I am this woman, often almost getting killed, while being a man, they even use the horn. Happened like 4 times in 3 months to me now. But I guess that's just how some people drive.
[13:13] <foobarry> ujjain: BMW, mercedes, audi?
[13:13] <foobarry> ujjain: you do look before crossing right?
[13:14] <ujjain> foobarry, yeah, but 90% of cars goes straight, when people turn their turn signal late, or just drive fast
[13:14] <ujjain> I'm used to the Dutch rule maybe, if the pedestrian goes straight, the car will have to stop for him, because he's making a corner
[13:15] <foobarry> next model of bmw won't have indicators because they are not used by the customers
[13:16] <ujjain> lol
[13:17] <foobarry> regularly get almost killed by drivers jumping red lights
[13:17] <foobarry> happens a lot
[13:19] <ujjain> i'll post a request for a rocket launcher on craigslist, if this happens again, at least i can take action, it should jump out between all the sex ads
[13:19] <foobarry> craiglist is in uk now?
[13:19] <foobarry> use gumtree
[13:22] <Myrtti> I finally managed to get my spun threads rinsed and hung to dry. pwah.
[13:22] <davmor2> ujjain: ah you see the mistake most people make is that the person in the car isn't a moron
[13:23] <foobarry> Myrtti: my wife has been lent a spinning wheel to try
[13:23] <foobarry> ahead of a purchase
[13:23] <foobarry> cranked it up yesterday
[13:23] <Myrtti> whee, beware it's an addiction
[13:23] <Myrtti> I'd much rather spin than knit these days
[13:23] <foobarry> its the kromski sonata one
[13:23] <foobarry> she also has stinky sheep fleeces in the loft
[13:24] <Myrtti> then again if you spin, the yarn for knitting is cheaper than bought from store, if you don't count in the time spent on spinning
[13:24] <foobarry> i don't consider it an economy at all, certainly an expensive hobby instead...
[13:27] <foobarry> Myrtti: why would/might it be necessary to buy an extra fly wheel?
[13:28] <davmor2> foobarry: depends there are hand spinners requested from Knitting wool firms but you have to be damn good for that
[13:29] <Myrtti> foobarry: that sounds odd, the only reason I can think of is that it's damaged so it's not balanced properly anymore
[13:30] <davmor2> foobarry: hand spun yarn is damned expensive, normal yarn isn't cheap.  Average now is £5-10 + per ball
[13:30] <Myrtti> gnawed by an animal or something
[13:30] <foobarry> maybe the owner bought an extra bobbin rather than the flywheel
[13:30] <Myrtti> foobarry: or a flyer
[13:30] <Myrtti> extra flyers I can understand
[13:30] <foobarry> yes, the flyer
[13:30] <foobarry> thats what i mean
[13:30] <foobarry> the thing on top?
[13:31] <Myrtti> oh, that's a totally different thing then
[13:31] <Myrtti> foobarry: http://joyofhandspinning.com/parts-of-the-spinning-wheel/
[13:31] <Myrtti> davmor2: handspun is cheap if you spin yourself from cheap materials you dye yourself ;-)
[13:31] <foobarry> flyer
[13:32] <davmor2> Myrtti: yeah my point was if you buy it from a shop it isn't, hence it can be be a very economic hobby
[13:32] <foobarry> except the outlay for a wheel is ~400
[13:32] <foobarry> why would one need another flyer?
[13:32] <Myrtti> foobarry: there's different types of flyers: static hooks, sliding hooks, selfwinding flyers, orifices can be bigger or smaller, etc.
[13:32] <foobarry> for different yarns?
[13:33] <Myrtti> if the speed of the flyer can't be adjusted otherwise, then it might be up to the flyer to adjust it
[13:39] <Myrtti> I'd really want a Wolee Winder but it's damned expensive.
[14:01] <diddledan> yawn
[14:01] <diddledan> so my weekend of hacking caught up with me and I went unconscious
[14:04] <foobarry> :-|
[14:19] <daftykins> haha, inevitable!
[14:45] <foobarry> if i was to convert a few dvds to digital format for easy access from my NAS, what's the recommended format to use? is there a recommended prog to chug away while i work?
[14:45] <ali1234> handbrake
[14:45] <ali1234> and .h264
[14:45] <daftykins> i'd agree with ali1234 if you insist on converting
[14:46] <daftykins> just dumping ISOs 1:1 is an easy way to go, but you'd have a lot of the unnecessary cruft and munch through disk space pretty quick
[14:47] <foobarry> h264 is the codec or container?
[14:47] <daftykins> video codec
[14:47] <foobarry> better than mp4?
[14:47] <daftykins> you'd want to use matroska as the container *.mkv
[14:47] <daftykins> yes
[14:47] <popey> i use mencoder these days
[14:47] <popey> two pass encoding to make decent videos for uploading
[14:47] <foobarry> popey: got a nice one liner to share ?
[14:47] <popey> yes
[14:47] <ali1234> mp4 is a container format
[14:47] <popey> two liner
[14:48] <foobarry> much obliged
[14:48] <ali1234> h264 in mp4 is what you find on blurays
[14:48] <foobarry> ali1234: ok i had it back to front. h264 is the codec and mp4 is container. i get it
[14:48] <dwatkins> vote for HandBrakeCLI here, preset="High Profile" does the trick for me
[14:48] <ali1234> use mp4 container if you want to play back on embedded players
[14:48] <ali1234> use mkv if you will playback on PCs
[14:48] <ali1234> *only
[14:48] <foobarry> will prob be playback on tablet and tv (via chromecast hopefully somehow)
[14:49] <daftykins> i still need to master bluray conversion, but i still doubt it can be made simple
[14:49] <ali1234> then you almost certainly will be better off with mp4
[14:49] <ali1234> but you might get away with mkv depending on player software
[14:49] <daftykins> foobarry: you want yourself a nice little XBMC device ;)
[14:50] <daftykins> XBMC's available for android too and can hook up to the NAS to play direct
[14:50] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7760472/ foobarry sommat like that
[14:50] <ali1234> hmm i didnt know that, i will have to try installing it
[14:50] <foobarry> thanks popester
[14:50] <ali1234> maybe then i can watch recordings from mythtv
[14:50] <ali1234> on android
[14:50] <popey> foobarry: np, fiddle with the fps and bitrate
[14:51] <popey> the rest should work fine
[14:51] <daftykins> ali1234: don't see why not! they don't publish yet though so you must sideload the APK
[14:51] <foobarry> so the input is dev/sr0
[14:51] <ali1234> of course
[14:51] <foobarry> daftykins: is xmbc heavy on android?
[14:51] <foobarry> its just the player right?
[14:51] <daftykins> never tried it
[14:52] <daftykins> i have an ubuntu based Ion HTPC running it though
[14:52] <daftykins> in fact i really need to update that as it's on an old XBMC and EOL 12.10
[14:53] <daftykins> wow digitalocean VPSs are cool
[14:54] <ali1234> now everyone is here, who wants to test something for me? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7760499/
[14:57] <popey> everyone ☻
[14:59] <ali1234> oh and ideally i need this confirmed on unity or gnome
[15:02] <ali1234> hmm wait, i see the problem
[15:02] <ali1234> variable expansion isn't working
[15:03] <ali1234> no wonder it crashes
[15:06] <foobarry> was about to buy a moto G LTE but there's a problem with them
[15:07] <foobarry> https://forums.motorola.com/posts/7e59cc7baf?commentId=787999#787999
[15:07] <daftykins> yep they're Motorola
[15:08] <foobarry> the moto g is great
[15:08] <foobarry> but they didn't test the feature they added to the new one
[15:16] <awilkins> Got the offspring a Moto G
[15:16] <awilkins> (not an LTE one)
[15:16] <awilkins> She's very happy with it
[15:21] <foobarry> oh?
[15:22] <foobarry> i know 4 people with it
[15:23] <daftykins> as long as you can get cyanogenmod on there or frequent updates i'm sure it's passable :)
[15:23] <nigelb> I have a Moto G.
[15:23] <nigelb> Very happy with it.
[15:23] <nigelb> (not-LTE)
[15:29] <foobarry> motog comes with 4.4.2
[15:29] <foobarry> awilkins: i misread your post
[15:29] <foobarry> everybody v happy :D
[15:30] <foobarry> i inserted the not from the previous sentence into the last sentence
[15:30] <foobarry> i have a htc desire, very unhappy with it after 5+ years
[15:30] <nigelb> I'm told that people unhappy with android did not have stock android
[15:30] <nigelb> almost always there was somethign samsung or htc did which made it more awful.
[15:31] <mapp> hm
[15:31] <mapp> need a good tutorial for openswan
[15:31] <awilkins> Wouldn't Moto phones be stock now, since Google bought them?
[15:31] <foobarry> i thouht lenovo bought them since then
[15:31] <foobarry> yes moto are stock
[15:32] <foobarry> my htc has been stock for years but is so slow now it is considered broken
[15:32] <davmor2> nigelb: I disagree I think some of the samsung things made it a much nicer phone to use, however others like splitting the settings app up were stupid
[15:33] <nigelb> davmor2: the "I'm told" applies to both sentences if it wasn't obvious :)
[15:34] <nigelb> I'm kind of excited for android one.
[15:34] <davmor2> nigelb: I'm kinda excited for meizu and bq phones.  Particularly the BQ one it look pretty :)
[15:35] <nigelb> :)
[15:49] <ali1234> okay, i fixed it
[15:51] <ali1234> what does everyone get if they do echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS --- $DESKTOP_SESSION
[15:53] <diddledan> /usr/share/ubuntu:/usr/share/gnome:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/ --- ubuntu
[15:53] <ali1234> hmm i see, thanks
[15:53] <ali1234> so some piece of software in xfce is messing with XDG_DATA_DIRS after it's already been set up
[15:53] <diddledan> joy
[15:54] <ali1234> I get /usr/share/xubuntu:/usr/share/xfce4:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share --- xubuntu
[15:54] <ali1234> note that /usr/share appears twice
[15:54] <ali1234> if you remove one of them, half of the desktop will no longer function
[15:54] <diddledan> wha?
[15:54] <diddledan> that doesn't make sense
[15:54] <ali1234> yeah i know right
[15:54] <diddledan> oooh - one of them has a trailing /
[15:55] <ali1234> what is happening is that if you remove the one set by the general startup sequence, then the second one doesn't get added until after half the desktop already started
[15:55] <ali1234> the trailing / is irrelevant
[15:55] <ali1234> so anyway, then half your desktop doesn't know to search /usr/share for icons etc, and that breaks *everthing*
[15:55] <ali1234> the way the variable is set up is really crazy
[15:55] <diddledan> aah I thought maybe xfce had some badly coded stuff that required the / and others that didn't
[15:56] <ali1234> that was my initial suspicion but turns out that was wrong
[15:56] <ali1234> removing the trailing slash from the first one doesn't cause the crash
[15:57] <ali1234> you can't get rid of the second one or edit it at all
[15:57] <ali1234> it's hardcoded somewhere it shoulnd't be
[15:57] <diddledan> grr
[15:57] <ali1234> so what happened was i wanted to edit the path so i did XDG_DATA_DIRS=$XDG_DATA_DIRS:/my/path
[15:58] <ali1234> but this does not work, because of how the variable gets constructed - it's empty when your profile gets set up, and then the session adds stuff to it
[15:58] <ali1234> but it only adds the default base dirs if the variable starts off empty
[15:58] <ali1234> so my path got added to "", and then i lost the default dirs, which made everything crash
[15:59] <ali1234> i find this to be unnecessarily confusing, but whatever
[16:00] <ali1234> but hey, i have fully working portable steam now
[16:09] <daftykins> 0o
[16:10] <daftykins> what use is that?
[16:10] <daftykins> (genuinely curious)
[16:10] <ali1234> if i run out of space on / i can move steam to another drive without having to redownload every game
[16:11] <ali1234> if i run out of space on that drive i can buy a bigger one and move it again
[16:11] <ali1234> if i want to format / i can easily keep steam without having to extract all the pieces of it from my homedir
[16:11] <ali1234> i can plug the drive into another computer and play the games, and also have all my saves available
[16:12] <daftykins> hmm, can't see those use cases coming up but ok
[16:13] <ali1234> only every six months
[16:13] <ali1234> "i want to reinstall ubuntu, how do i back up steam?"
[16:15] <ali1234> well, first back up ~/Steam, and ~/.steam
[16:16] <ali1234> then go through ~/.config, ~/.local, and ~, and try to guess whether every file is somehow important to steam or not
[16:16] <ali1234> if you guess wrong you lose your save games or steam forces you to redownload everything anyway
[16:19] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7760847/ is what my special steam homedir looks like. remember that literally nothing but steam and things steam launches have been run in this homedir
[16:20] <ali1234> notice how it likes to spray files all over the place, and especially that it has no control at all over where games make their saves
[16:25] <daftykins> ;)
[16:30] <diddledan> did JamesTait say it was chocolate day?
[16:31] <JamesTait> I most certainly did.
[16:31] <diddledan> I think I might have to oblige by eating
[16:51] <daftykins> i just ate a blueberry muffin
[16:52] <daftykins> i'm not sure i have chocolate in stock :<
[17:00] <mapps> :<
[17:00] <mapps> hm
[17:00] <mapps> could i have my ubuntu machine serve up ipv6 addresses
[17:00] <mapps> or would this cause problems with everything..because the routers giving out ipv4
[17:01] <diddledan> you can have different machines providing the ip6 and ip4 connections respectively
[17:02] <mapps> so i could leave everything as it is now
[17:02] <mapps> and i dont need more NICs or anything?
[17:03] <diddledan> yes and no more nics required
[17:03] <mapps> thanks
[17:04] <mapps> need to phone sky and student loan co again ;/ gotta send copy of my p60 apr-july payslips but not sure if by email is ok
[17:04] <mapps> overpaid by 745 already;[ without julys pay
[17:04] <mapps> annoying they just take it till you contact them
[17:07] <mgdm> you're the second person I've heard say that today
[17:07] <mgdm> that's incredible
[17:07] <mapps> what is? that thats how they operate?
[17:09] <mgdm> Yeah
[17:09] <mapps> i thought so too..if i hadn't phoned up theyd keep taking till end of next March even though it's paid off in full
[17:09] <mgdm> madness
[17:10] <mapps> i had a statement from  saying i owed 3457 ..i phoned in April of this year to find out an up to date amount and all they can tell you is the last amount on the statement sent out a year ago
[17:10] <mapps> somehow you pay monthly..but they dont seem to count it all till the end of the financial year
[17:10] <mapps> very odd
[17:11] <diddledan> foobarry: did you get your g-watch yet?
[17:11] <diddledan> mine arrived this morning
[17:11] <diddledan> at silly-o'clock
[17:11] <mapps> is it radvd i need to look into diddledan?
[17:12] <mgdm> mapps: I phoned them the other day to see how much I still owed, but they hadn't had last year's numbers yet, so all I know is valid from April 2013
[17:12] <mgdm> *mutter(
[17:12] <diddledan> mapps: radvd does the stateless autoconfiguration - you tell it what your routed /64 network is and that's about it - everything from then is magic
[17:12] <mapps> yep thats what i meant mgdm i have astatement from april 2013..
[17:12] <mapps> how useless is that
[17:13] <mapps> i know ive paid it off by looking at my P60 and this years pay
[17:13] <diddledan> mapps: alternatively you can use a dhcpv6 daemon (I don't know how to work those) OR manually configure each device
[17:13] <mapps> but i mean..why isnt it like a normal loan where the balance is updated after every payment
[17:14] <mapps> hmm hang on how will this work..i connect to my sky router and get ipv4..connect to the ubuntu machine over ipv4 and get ipv6 for which connection? argh i dont get it
[17:15] <diddledan> mapps: ipv6 doesn't care what the ipv4 netowrk is doing
[17:15] <mapps> yea but i mean i have to be connected over ipv4 to get the ipv6?
[17:15] <diddledan> nope
[17:15] <mapps> else i cant reach the ubuntu machine?
[17:16] <diddledan> ipv6 is the same layer of the OSI model as ipv4 - they work entirely independently
[17:16] <daftykins> double whammy DHCP
[17:16] <diddledan> you reach the ubuntu machine via ipv6
[17:17] <mapps> but how if my laptop doesnt already have ipv6 connectivity
[17:17] <diddledan> arp
[17:18] <diddledan> your laptop will arp broadcast for an ipv6 configuration service (radvd) which will respond with an assignment
[17:18] <mapps> im confused;/ if i wasnt connected to my router now id have no connection to the ubuntu machine
[17:19] <diddledan> it works the same way as ipv4 gets assigned when you have no configuration - you can't reach your router via ip4 until you've received a broadcast dhcp response (radvd takes this place in ipv6)
[17:20] <mapps> still struggling to get it..so i dont need to be able to reach the machine over ipv4?
[17:20] <diddledan> ethernet is a layer below ipv4 and 6 which does the broadcasting
[17:20] <diddledan> nope not at all
[17:20] <diddledan> ethernet takes care of the connection
[17:20] <mapps> doesnt matter that ones wireless?
[17:21] <diddledan> wireless is still ethernet
[17:21] <mapps> yea
[17:21] <mapps> hope theres a good tutorial for radvd:)
[17:21] <diddledan> radvd doesn't really need a tutorial - it's fire and forget
[17:21] <diddledan> you turn it on and then it's magic thereafter
[17:22] <mapps> hm
[17:22] <daftykins> :D
[17:22] <mapps> guess il try
[17:25] <diddledan> think of it like this: when you turn on your laptop it knows nothing of your network so it yells over ethernet "I NEED AN ADDRESS" to which dhcp on your sky router will reply with an ipv4 assignment and radvd on your ubuntu box will reply with an ipv6 assignment - these both happen simultaneously and do not require one to occur before the other
[17:26] <diddledan> likewise in the future when ipv4 is turned off you'll just not get the dhcp response and ONLY get an ipv6
[17:27] <diddledan> it'll still in this case even though ipv4 isn't there
[17:27] <mapps> thanks , sure itll take me a while to sort out;p
[17:27] <daftykins> i've not bothered to play with v6 yet, don't see the point
[17:28] <daftykins> i've fixed up this iPhone 4 for a friend but it's locked to Three, i'm impatiently awaiting him to phone them up and get it unlocked :D
[17:29] <daftykins> we don't have locked phones down here so this is a first for me
[17:30] <popey> wifeys 4 is getting a bit sluggish
[17:30] <popey> going to give her my 4s
[17:30] <mapps> 5s ftw
[17:30] <mapps> :D
[17:30] <mapps> il get the 6 when it comes out too
[17:31] <popey> my Firefox Flame was dispatched from Singapore today
[17:32] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n4l80ponadsnxub/AACOzMVpkOtLCIfZg2yeyq9Pa
[17:32] <daftykins> this is what i got given to work with XD
[17:33] <diddledan> ipv4 and ipv6 (and the myriad of other protocols such as icmp - pings aren't part if IP!) are all based on ethernet which has arp to work out where to send things. when you try to communicate with "an ip" ethernet will yell onto it's wire/wireless connection "WHO HAS THIS IP" using ARP (Address resolution protocol) and the response is a network adapter's MAC address of the machine which claims to own that IP. Once your machine knows the
[17:33] <diddledan>  target MAC address it no longer cares about the IP address and fires packets with the target mac address embedded. ethernet is entirely broadcast - there's no concept of a route from a-to-b - that's higher up. so the packet with the target mac just gets fired into the network and it's up to whoever wants to receive it to do so
[17:35] <daftykins> popey: the ol' downside to perpetual upgrades i suspect?
[17:35] <daftykins> too new an OS and it grinds to a halt :D
[17:35] <popey> yeah
[17:35] <daftykins> my mate just had this sat in a tupperware container and said "do you fancy a challenge?"
[17:36] <daftykins> he was struggling to reassemble it from what i gathered, now it needs the power button replaced and it'll be working again
[17:36] <diddledan> packet-switching makes this less true, but that's another story - before we had "network switches" we had "network hubs" which take input from each connected device and copies it to every other connected device. switches on the other hand maintain a mac-address table so they know which port to send it out of thereby reducing noise to uninterested parties
[17:36] <daftykins> only worth about £100-130 on ebay now though
[17:36] <popey> heh
[17:37] <daftykins> parts will cost £7 on ebay to fix :D
[17:38] <daftykins> weirdly it needs a static IP assigned to work on my wireless right now 0o
[17:39] <daftykins> would you guys say it makes sense to stick to 32-bit for VPSs with ~1GB RAM? seems sensible to me to reduce memory footprint potentially
[17:40] <popey> depends what else might interchange with it, and what you use it for
[17:40] <popey> i have a 64-bit vps which i use for 64-bit package builds
[17:40] <popey> but in general, yeah
[17:41] <daftykins> just simple web servers really
[17:41] <popey> unless i knew they were going to upgrade my ram in the future
[17:41] <popey> and I ended up getting stuck at 3GB becuase I didnt make it 64-bit in the first place
[17:41] <daftykins> doh! :)
[17:41] <daftykins> a friend runs an art gallery so i'm pushing the VPS + wordpress + theme approach once more
[18:30] <mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2682682/Like-jumping-Empire-State-Building-Owner-worlds-tallest-water-slide-tests-launch-delayed-time-admits-scariest-thing-hes-done.html
[18:31] <mapps> wont catch me on that
[18:37] <davmor2> mapps: wuss
[18:58] <mapps> ;]
[20:41] <DJones> Looks fun
[22:18] <mapps> so tomorrow il ring sky and hopefully i can finally order my fibre
[22:18] <mapps> ;[
[22:20] <mapps> 5 weeks ago phoned up moved my phone to sky and ordered sky fibre pro told 2-3wks ..come back a week later and a letter saying i have ADSL unlimited..phoned them told it was a mistake order went wrong..then last week told its not letting them upgrsde me to fibre even tho its showing as in my area
[22:20] <mapps> no doubt tomorrow will be a bundle of fun
[22:35] <diddledan> oh dear
[22:35] <diddledan> that sounds like a mess
[23:02] <diddledan> my watch just informed me that "ahdb pqq" is due - I have no idea what that is
[23:16] <ali1234> it's upside down. it actually says "bbd qpyg"
[23:17] <diddledan> because that's so much more meaningful?
[23:18] <ali1234> sure, everyone knows the bbd qpyg right?
[23:18] <diddledan> I fear I've missed out
[23:40] <shauno_> a welsh watch?
[23:45] <mapps> well yea diddledan
[23:45] <mapps> thing is..they put through my phone transfer and fibre at same time..somehow apparently it can cause problems..so rather than do it seperately
[23:45] <mapps> they did nothing
[23:45] <mapps> so i come back from a weeks holiday and theyve done 0
[23:46] <mapps> yet i paid my activation fee agreed the terms etc..so what were they playing at